Forum


Also get access to over 60 free games in their trove of games, get 20 precent off all purchases and you can stop the subscription at anytime and keep all the games

For me it's about the game controller  

  RSS

tsmspace
(@tsmspace)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 36
September 21, 2019 12:22 pm  

Hello.

I AM a space game enthusiast, but I am specific with exactly what I enjoy. When it comes to the games that I like to play, I mostly don't care about storylines, and generally don't like when themes are overly limiting (although that is what makes some games what they are).. ,, and importantly I'm seeking a very single kind of gratification.

I built a custom game controller with 4 joysticks, and although I like other games that are just about the gameplay (for example sc2), when I'm itching for a space sim, what I mean is using my game controller to operate a ship in 6 degrees of freedom,, with NO inertial stabilization. (otherwise labelled newtonian game physics). honestly I do like rotational stabilization, although I also enjoy games that don't have it.

My controller layout is: two thumbsticks, and two trigger-finger joysticks, with buttons in all the places a standard xbox controller might have them. (so buttons for the thumbs as well as some buttons for the ring and middle finger of each hand). I find the trigger finger joysticks to be remarkably intuitive, assuming you take some time to get coordinated first.

My configuration is: forward and reverse throttle are on the left trigger-joystick up-down,, up-down-left-right throttle is on the left thumbstick,, roll is on the right trigger joystick left-right, and rotate up-down-left-right (pitch and roll) is on the right thumbstick. I do not have any motions mapped to the left trigger left-right, or the right trigger up-down, and feel that this will help me gradually get used to the coordination of operating a joystick with the trigger finger. Buttons are mapped for some games, but because I never play shooting games, and mostly only navigate courses (such as courses I make from blocks in Starmade, or in the game Orbital Racer, which I play in simulation mode), I only really use the joysticks. I sit behind the keyboar d and mouse, so am easily able to use them or transition to them for parts of gameplay that require or benefit from it.

I am VERY INTERESTED in finding more people who are interested in 4 joystick controllers or other 6dof on sticks setups.

I am also interested in realistic space drones as a topic of discussion,,, for example there are some drones on the ISS, but the best example is the ship-core block in Starmade operated on its own (with not additional blocks, reactors, thrusters, etc.).

I understand that space-engineers offers some similar opportunities to Starmade, but personally am more of a fan of the minecraft-esque starmade, and prefer it at the moment over the more "graphically pleasing" space engineers. Also, Starmade seems overall easier to do what I want to do, and personally I like the look of it, I enjoy the cartooniness of it, and often feel like I am playing simpsons in space!

I also have a game desire, that apparently does not exist. The game would be a cross between space-trading games, and Grand-Theft-Auto,,, where instead of jumping from system to system, the entire game would take place within a space-city. (almost never would you fly in a straight line to anywhere), and the gameplay would be a combination of mini-games, delivery missions, and heavily focused on piloting newtonian physics engines through dense environments. Because I imagine such a game to be an epic project, I thought it would be cool if to start with, the game was designed to allow a pilot to deliver space-pizza to various locations around the city, and return to the pizza parlor. The pilot could fly a faster ship to the residence or place of business, then launch a pizza-carrying drone that flies with equal thrust in all directions, to bring the pizza from the pilots ship to the pizza airlock. This would allow the player to first operate a ship with powerful forward throttle, requiring them to use their main engines for changes in vector,,, then to operate a ship where vector changes can be accomplished with lateral thrust, allowing very tight corridors to be easily navigated at manageable speeds.

 

edit:::: I added these pictures. sorry I didn't have them at first, but I didn't have them on the same device, but after someone wanted to see them I have them available, so added them in case anyone else wants to see!  

20190825 235823 (1)
20190902 163125
20190902 163202 (1)

 

This topic was modified 1 month ago by tsmspace

auryx liked
Quote
Pinback
(@pinback)
99 Star General Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 7481
September 22, 2019 12:35 am  

Don't know anything about joysticks, but I have dug out the X52 which was bought for a notorious game which change from a single player game to full online in the middle of it Kickstarter, so I never used it.

"The game would be a cross between space-trading games, and Grand-Theft-Auto,,, where instead of jumping from system to system, the entire game would take place within a space-city."

Nice idea for a game always wish Rockstar would make a GTA space game and oddly enough their are few games which might fit that description if you take out the GTA ref, couple of old ones in G Police and hardwar http://www.zedo.hardwar.info/index.htm and a couple of new ones in Frontier Pilot Simulator https://store.steampowered.com/app/673210/Frontier_Pilot_Simulator/
and Lunar Flight https://store.steampowered.com/app/208600/Lunar_Flight/

Odd how the older games take place in a city and the new ones are over terrain


ReplyQuote
tsmspace
(@tsmspace)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 36
September 22, 2019 4:48 pm  

thanks for the suggestions.

I will take a look.


ReplyQuote
theAntiBob
(@theantibob)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 28
October 9, 2019 8:49 pm  

spaceballs

20191009 113841

my new setup came in the mail yesterday and is "setup" today

why 2?

cross channel avoidance

transitional controls in my offhand

rotational controls in my right

had to use some pretty ugly hacks to expose them as abs joysticks (since i apparently cant figure out the proper udev rules to avoid the linux kernel's default behavior) and went with github.com/nsensfel/relabsd

so far, it's only been tested with descent3 (since i never could get to used to the keyboard ramping/fidelity with that one, being a long time keyboard only descenter)

using about a 10% deadzone and recalibrated the default relabsd output from +/-350 to the coresponding input/event# range values of +/-255

This post was modified 1 month ago by theAntiBob

ReplyQuote
tsmspace
(@tsmspace)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 36
October 10, 2019 2:38 am  

@theantibob

so I'm pretty unfamiliar with what you have there. can you tell me how you get 3dof on one of the mice?? 


ReplyQuote
theAntiBob
(@theantibob)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 28
October 10, 2019 3:49 am  

@tsmspace

the spherical rubberized orb can be manipulated in full 6dof

i am simply ignoring undesired or inadvertent input from half of the axis (rx,ry,rz on one, x,y,z on the other)

they are functional as a full 6dof controllers individually, but they are very sensitive and crosschannel input will tend to occur during micro-inputs


ReplyQuote
tsmspace
(@tsmspace)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 36
October 10, 2019 12:58 pm  

@theantibob

so what happens, you can push the orb , and rotate the orb?? so,,, but, , when you push down and pull up, is that kind of goofy?? the input is described by you as very subtle, but can you adjust the deadzone?? or is the input range of motion fairly limited??

 

I've considered being able to push and pull as a way to have a 3rd input on a joystick, and thought that although it is just some more coordination, I felt that it would be pretty hard, because when you just deflect a joystick there is plenty of room for "useless energy", for example you can squeeze them extra with no effect, or relax much of your hand and put your thumb on various places of the joystick throughout your use of it to help remove stresses,,, but once you add more ranges of important motion, now your movements are much more restricted. 

in other words, by being kind of dumb, a regular thumbstick allows you to have plenty of imprecise body motion without costing you valuable input. I've never seen those balls before, but I am curious how intuitive you feel they are to learn. (again,, when thumbsticks first became popular, many people thought they were not intuitive to learn, and they stole the market, but I actually liked them immediately, if you practice, any motion is learnable)....

 

another advantage of game controllers is that you can just hold them, you don't need a nice mousing surface. I don't have a table, or a bed, or a chair, or anything of the like. I sleep on the floor and my computer is also on the floor, I use things like old peanut jars to prop up the keyboard,, so a mousing surface has proven to be a continuous challenge for me,,, I don't find a mouse easy to use for high performance activity. it's ok if I can be clumsy, but for games, I find that having a mousing surface that meets my high demands can be a struggle, where with a game controller as long as I'm in a comfortable posture, I can achieve my normal performance. 


ReplyQuote
D.C.Elington
(@d-c-elington)
Master Chief Registered
Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 113
October 10, 2019 12:58 pm  

@theAntiBob very nice setup 🙂
Have you tried this with Orbiter or KSP this should rock for real newtonian manual docking!


ReplyQuote
theAntiBob
(@theantibob)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 28
October 10, 2019 8:37 pm  

it feels pretty good, but i have yet to try this an anything besides descent3

looking forward to veterans free week on vendetta online, though

the upwards motion tends to be more of a pinch between the ball and base... attaching them solidly would certainly change this dynamic since they dont weigh quite enough to max the range under their own weight (oversight?)

as far as holding it goes, i think the spaceorb (sorry no link) is a superior layout, but a larger radius on the sphere should exponentially increase controllability while gradually reducing sensitivity

ive always felt that 2 hands on one large orb seems most natural (theoretically)

i actually rejected gamepad style sticks, but was forced... i mean forced to master them due to societal halo spnkring requirements that were thrust upon me

honestly, research seems to show that resistance free relative input is far more natural, accurate, and quicker, but very few devices utilize these concepts, inverse kinematic drawing tools are out there...

also theres this...

https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-3D-Controller/

sorry, the field labels for urls is white on white

and a development board was out there for testing about the same time that used the same principal, but was flat and triangulated differently

This post was modified 1 month ago by theAntiBob

ReplyQuote
tsmspace
(@tsmspace)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 36
October 11, 2019 12:22 am  

@theantibob

I have to take a moment to stand up for normal game-pad sticks. first of all, they're terrible sticks. high quality RC controllers use much better sticks and its really noticable with rc toys,, because games actually dumb down the stick inputs a lot in order to compensate for their low quality. low quality potentiometers are very inconsistent, so games have large deadzones, and huge steps in value to make sure that all game controllers work about the same, but then you end up with glorified buttons instead of sticks,,, meanwhile if you go fly rc drones or something, and have a high quality transmitter, you will find yourself using extremely responsive potentiometers and a very full range of value control, with nice smooth change in value. 

 

having said all of that, the familiarity of game controller sticks means that if you suddenly want to learn to use them with your trigger finger, it turns out about one day will have you up and running, and a few weeks will give you a good feeling of freedom. (naturally skill is infinite and never feels finished, but you will be done focusing on the new sticks pretty quickly, and settle in to only thinking the motion you want, and the sticks will be second nature). 

also, game controller sticks didn't get so popular because they are a bad idea,,, a joystick itself is actually an essential machine. ,,,, if you still feel sour about sticks, I promise I have the solution,,, save up 1000$, and invest in a basic FPV drone setup and a few batteries, and practice up like you might try racing. (fly slow, but try some hoops and courses), and then plug the transmitter up to your computer and play with the drone simulators. The stick experience of a high quality transmitter and a simulator that makes use of the nice smooth change in value that a high quality joystick offers will definately make you feel they have a place in the future of robotics and computer control! (game controllers are simply put the lowest quality joysticks available, no question about it). 


ReplyQuote
Share: