Well the election in the USA is over.... your thoughts
I try not to bring politics up much because we are a gaming community, but sometimes I just need to vent or like to hear what people think or if I am just damn crazy.
I have to admit I was very surprised of the outcome of the election and thought Romney was going to win, and its a shame that he didn't. I was reading this article: http://www.theblaze....-a-second-term/ and checking out this website: http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/
And its alarming to see companies laying off so many people, and I think it is a good thing. We need to wake up and smell the roses, people have to learn money shouldn't be given it should be earned. Taxes are for maintaining certain social programs for the elderly, sick, disabled and in some instances poor. But when 46+ million americans on food stamps there is a problem with our tax system, regulations and entitlement systems.
There was a time when money was backed by gold/assets, that isn't the case any more. The US Treasury is just creating money from nothing, yeah may sound good at first but it has consequences. First it devalues the dollar and second when interest rates go up (and they will) inflation will be coming and if you think your hurting now just wait.
There was a time and in some areas of the world that are this way, in that if you didn't have a job or money you went without and you were hungry. But what did this do...? It motivated you to find some sort of work or trade to feed yourself and your family or you died. You did what you had to survive. We have lost something here as a people, in simple terms I think we lost our pride. Pride is something that is taught and conditioned into you when you were a child and your dad/mom and grandparents would always tell you to work hard for what you get and never take a hand out unless you cannot physically work. What happened to those teachings? Are youth is lazy and expect to get $50k/yr jobs for doing nothing? We have lost the will to work hard, not everyone, just a portion of our society. Almost 50mil people on Welfare and I would probably guess at least 80% of those people can physically work, why not make them work for their check? We make prisoners do work in most areas for a small wage, why not welfare recipients?
What is starting to grow here is division and you can read it in various comments on news articles all over the web. There are lots of people hating people on Welfare and such, because they do nothing for the money. When the people that do work pay for them to do whatever. I have no problems helping someone, but we should be empowering people and motivating them to work and not just receive something for nothing. How are things ever going to change if the gov't is giving away so much free crap that they are literally buying votes.
I have never understood how non citizens can vote in our elections, they can get benefits and even social security....? wtf how? why? This is wrong on every level and people just don't care. The UN had observers at some polling stations and they were amazed that we were not requiring ID to vote. I generally don't care if illegals work here, but they should receive zero benefits, maybe that would motivate them to become a citizen.
Our society is crumbling and it is a shame. Do people even under stand how much debt is 16 trillion? (That's $16,000,000,000,000) And that we are averaging a trillion more every year? In my home I have to budget and forgo things if money gets tight, just like every other person/family out there. Why can't the gov't live within its budget? I know why, because there hasn't been a budget that has been passed since our president has been in office. How can we balance the checkbook of the USA if we are not keeping good records and spending more than we take in. Some of these concepts are so obvious to me, and I don't understand why the gov't doesn't get the hint that we can't afford the things we are doing. I have never been a Ron Paul supporter, but I do like some of his ideas. Especially when it comes to foreign aid, don't give any aid at all. We have plenty to take care of in our own country and when we have zero homeless then we can give money away. Ahhh so frustrating, sometimes I wish I could do their jobs to get things right. We have lost our common sense and basic principles, maybe we deserve to fall because we are too stupid and don't learn from mistakes.
I have been thinking hard about my retirement.... if I ever get one. And I think I might move outside the USA, because its too damn expensive to live/retire here. We wouldn't have to tax so much if we trim the fat off the budget. I could go on and on.... <img src=' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I'm sure some people will agree and disagree with me. But reading news and financial analyst reports about where America is headed is not good people, I don't care about party affiliation. I just want us to do the right thing and get our country back on track, but it needs to be an effort from the people. Because the government will not change unless the people make them change.
We need lots of reform in this country to get us back on track to that once great nation we were 40-60yrs ago. Maybe its a dream, but it is a dream I would like to attain.
I will get off my stump now...
From what I understand, the real problem lies with Congress, not our President.
Though really, I wasn't too impressed with either candidate, and think that to get us out of our mess, we would have needed something drastic. So even though I know it's a pipe dream, I was hoping Gary Johnson would have at least gotten more of the vote.
Obama was always going to win the election, I'm surprised you were surprised by that. One of my most important topics is the environment, so I was happy with this outcome, sounds like Romney would have done a lot of damage there.
What is the favorable rating for house/senate like 10%, yeah they are the worse part of the government agreed. Way to fix it fire them all and make their position one year terms with no re-election possibilities This way we can hopefully get people in there that want to help the country and not themselves. Sometimes I think it should be a non-paying position and your only reimbursed for travel expenses. There is too much corruption in this area of government, Harry Reid was an average person before he became a politican. Now he is one of the richest people in politics, how can that happen on $100k+ salary a year? FBI should investigate all corruption in gov't and arrest those that are dishonest.
I would vote for an independent candidate if I knew they would have a chance to win, but with only our two party system it will be hard to elect someone outside of it. Crap Jessie Venture is probably going to run in 2016 and I would probably give him a try as well. We do need change, just not the change we have been getting.
I like the environment like any one else, I live in a tourist state in NH. I know some people that work at the Seabrook Power Plant (Nuclear power) and one of the last plants to be built in the USA (which was finished in the 80's) and they tell me this plant is very efficient and no impact on the environment at all. And technology has advanced in 30yrs that they could build a plant that would surpass any worries people may have about nuclear power. I have no clue why we don't have plants in every state. But most of our energy is produced by coal, why? They say in NH our power rates may go up 25% that is just crazy, build another plant and make more power. Power companies would love to make more plants but regulations kill them with getting one made. We do this to ourselves.
We can do lots of raw material gathering without messing up the environment, in NH logging is a pretty big thing up north. Trees are replanted and restrictions are put in to what and where they can cut, the state is 85% forested and I have never seen areas of the state that look bad or have impacted any wildlife. I think we can be more responsible yes when it comes to the environment, but we also need to try out new ideas and technologies to extract or do things that will help our survival.
I was a little surprised at the election just because I was having a good feeling on its direction and it seemed like people I talked to wanted something different than what they have been getting. I hope I am wrong and things do get better, but I don't think they will any time soon. I think we are getting weaker as a nation every year in all aspects of society.
Its an interesting one... Personally I think there's a few more countries to go bust and maybe its for the best. It will burn the fingers of the lenders making them more cautious about lending inappropriately and the borrowers will have to balance their budgets immediately.
Course it means that half the political elite are immediately out of a job and on charges of negligence (hence why no government wants to go bust the Icelandic finance minister was tried for financial misconduct ) but I still can't help thinking it might be for the best.
Its a hard lesson but it teaches that everyone is responsible for what they lend and receive.
Greece is definitely going bust by the way. I think a lot of countries will just steadily get poorer and muddle along as best they can putting off any real meaningful action until they are forced. Reminds me of the pusher addict relationship. The pusher doesn't want the addict to stop because they benefit from supply while the addict can't bear to think of giving up. Greece's political elite just don't fancy being straight up on trial for negligence and the rest of the European Union are happy to screw them down for money they at a push can afford to lose and which they would have to work much harder to invest in smaller investments.
The scary thing about it all that throughout the west whichever party gets in they can't seem to balance the budget.
And in terms of wars no politiician actually wants to state that the countries that are the most economically successful countries end up winning.
We have it easy. My mates granny worked down the mill. She got one day off a year. That was 75 years ago
We have definitely lost that work ethic our grandparents had that's for sure Dalkeith.
I have zero pity for banks here because they are a huge part of the problem. I would like to see more regulations as to how much a bank can charge for interest and fees. Take a basic 30yr home loan. Your home can cost $200k and when you are done paying off in 30yrs you would have pay just over $600k for it. Banks shouldn't be allowed to make that much profit on one person. Banks should encourage fast repayment and making payments on time. Not jacking everyone's interest rates because they feel like it. Banks don't need to charge lots of interest because they have the property as collateral and will get their money if the loan defaults.
But USA and a lot of countries need to start jailing and firing people from these positions that are not working and inefficient.
I try not to think about politics (or politicians) too much, as it drives me crackers. As for the economy? I lost just about everything in the crash of the early '90s (I'm UK based), when base interest rates hit 16%. It ruined many people, but was followed by a boom (a false boom, driven by credit insanity) - thus the cyclic nature of the economy is a major problem.
My somewhat sardonic comment on the US election was made in the shoutbox - but I'll repeat it here:
Who was it that set-up a system, a supposedly democratic sytem, where you end-up always voting for the lesser of two evils? I mean, was George Washington the lesser of two evils? Sometimes I wonder!'
I'm pushing sixty now, and in poor health, but if they keep raising the retirement age, I may never get there!
That's my two pennies worth! Now then... I've got a starship to test!
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous! Got me?
For me personally, it was like a kick in the gut when I saw that Ohio went for Obama. I greatly fear that this election was won because far too many people have been convinced that they need a huge government to help provide for their needs instead of insisting upon being granted the freedom to fail or succeed on their own merits and abilities. I just got done reading an article that details how we have fallen from the 3rd most economically free nation to somewhere around 18th now. This started during the Bush admin, but has accelerated under our current President. This has happened with the consent of the majority of the electorate who seem more and more willing to trade freedom for the percieved security that an ever increasingly large government promises to provide. Two very pertinent quotes from founding fathers on this subject..
1. A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. (Thomas Jefferson)
2. A people who willingly trade liberty for security are worthy of neither. (Benjamin Franklin)
[...] I greatly fear that this election was won because far too many people have been convinced that they need a huge government to help provide for their needs instead of insisting upon being granted the freedom to fail or succeed on their own merits and abilities. [...]
Maybe if more people in the US would have health insurance this election would not have been won by people who need a huge government to cover their basic needs. Health insurance (for everyone) is a world wide standard for 1st World countries but not in the US.
And I am sorry to say, but most of the people DO NOT have the freedom to fail or succeed on their own merits and abilities, only those who succeeded (got good education? no disablity?) can really believe that.
(European point of view. What do we know?) =)
There is so much wrong in your country (in mine too), at least Health Insurance for everyone is coming. If it is not blocked in congress/senate.
well D1, the whole thing isn't that easy, you know i live by welfare myself since a while, i can work, physically well, no question, but i can't find a job anymore.
that is oh well, if i go and work for peanuts, i will have work, i.e. i was engaged to help the communty keeping a clean city, but won't get payed for it, it's part of the welfare program here.
it's in general a good thing, and in fact work didn't gives you only money, it lets you feel you are worth something, you see the situation to depend on welfare isn't that easy.
true is it makes lazy, in this point you're right, i notice this at myself, as long as i can live from that little money i get from welfare i'm not in need to work.
but like i said the situation isn't that easy, many would like to work i'm convinced, i'm also convinced that it would give them the sense in life back.
but we can't stamp or stich out work.
i was about to write myself i quite contrary article, but i guess this is a good point here to start with it.
the problem i see is that our commerce stucks, completely not only in the states, in switzerland we have quite smaller but similar problems.
but why does it stucks?
what's the reason behind?
what is needed to keep the wheels turning?
there is a simple answer to that, income.
income of all i mean not the income of a few.
as long as more and more income is gained by only a few the less will be consumed, this leads to less commerce and less production,
"the wheel stucks".
we will have less work, more poeple that have to depend on welfare while lesser are able and willing to pay for welfare.
the wheel is turning backwards even.
i'm far from saying that everybody should earn the same amount, socialism or communism in this kind clearly doesn't works, or maybe i'm to much swiss already to believe such.
but it's simple if we gain the income and standart of all, more will be produced everyone will have work, less people will live by welfare.
it's a quite simple cybernetical model i'm talking about, at least i look at it from this pov.
btw, D1, i didn't think it's a political problem, it's a social problem, prsonally i feel parties aren't needed, yours have only two, democrats and republicians,
in europe we have many parties, but they aren't useful and i feel in a working democracy you won't need that no?
one could fairly say the parties live or exist only for their own good, to keep their own machinery running, doesn't matter which one, all act like this.
but unfortunately this machinery produces only a lot of hot air, nothing really useful, nothing the masses get any profit from.
especially in a direct democracy like in switzerland, in the end anyone has the right to vote and start a petition here in switzerland,
you won't need a party to back you, only the needed amount of subscribers.
you and me, we haven't quite the same pov, nonetheless we are able to talk like humans, we don't have to strut, we can debate like civilized people.
i feel this should also be possible in politics (while politics is already what we do here, in my eyes), we won't need parties anymore i guess,
this concept is overhauled and if i think right it has never belonged to a true democracy.
well personally i appreciate the decision of the amercan citicens, i didn't think that one would really make a better job, rep or democrat.
it is that old situation a songwriter back in the 60's described here in switzerland already well.
that is, one could mean it serious, he is willing to change a lot and have the right concept for it.
he went to politics, stepped up the ladder to get "president" (or a similar leading position), only to find out that he had to make so many compromises
on it's way up, that in the end nothing is left of his brillant concept.
this is typical for a democracy, and he (the songwriter) was a quite clever lad.
engaged himself in politics, though he knew what he was talking about well.
nonetheless a very simple man with simple longings like family and children, like you and me.
he wrote many very short such "sociopolitical" songs, the swiss know him well and i guess many know his songs by heart.
nonetheless only little went into daily politics of his thoughts.
people should moan if they are dissatisfied, it's up to us if we like to change something, not to the "president" (or whatever leader or leading council).
well, even a song about one who like to burn down our capitol, in the song, first when he met him, he talked to him and made him convinced that it isn't
worth to blow it up, that our democracy is a good thing, in his words "i was talking so fat, it would have made even a horse patriotic".
but as he went home and thought about what he said, he wasn't so sure anymore, and probably it would have been the right thing to blow it up.
i guess with such thoughts in heart (or mind) a lot could be made better...
btw, as i don't belong to any nation, as i feel. i could hardly be patriotic and everything i say or think of i mean for all the world.
if i have a dream, then it would be that all the world would have such a good constitution as we have, where at least theoretical all have the same rights
no matter gender or tribe.
i guess the guys who wrote yours and our constitution had the same dream...
we should keep this dream alive.
the swiss look at me quite suspicious when i compare the staes to them, many here "dislike" the USA, for playing "world police" as example.
but dammit i'm pretty sure the swiss would act the same if it would be a nation as big as the states, no question for me.
probably we would be even more straight in this, at least i believe that.
it's probably naive to believe that all the world should live by our rules, but we can't see anything better, right?
erm, yes probably i'm in the wrong position as a construction worker....
hey, "the non paying position" is a good approach.
5 decades ago, you haven't earned money in politics here, you couldn't live from that,
it was far to less to live from and only ment as a balance for the effort, not as a payment.
but things have changed a bit, more duties have been moved from the townships to the federation.
more work for them and of course i feel if one does a daily job in politics he should get payed for it, else it would lead to a situation that only wealthy people could
run for politics.
but that's not true democratic thought, though they need a little payment, actually still it's a joke compared to what politicians earn in other countries.
that means more as $500'000 a year you can't earn with politics by direct payment for it (i don't talk here about the social profit it might bring or profit for your business in a long term)
we had a few years ago a farmer in our fed. council (what replaces your president, only a council of seven instead one), many here laughed about him, a "uneducated", "he can't even speak french or italian" (as switzerland is "three lingual").
but i didn't think that is relevant, education is somehow a relevant thing, but on the other hand not needed for this, he could speak his mind as well and to represent the longings of the farmers, it will have to be a farmer, no question.
it is granted by our constitution that education, wealthyness or social position won't/should not play a role to be elected.
but yes, again your thoughts are true democratic, they shouldn't get payed so well for it, many here believe that to.
(he, he, you see what i mean parties are not needed, you're a democrat, me is one, different but that's ok. do we need a party?
do we need to get seperated by that? i didn't think so. i guess unfortunately each of the parties in the states makes the other responsible for this splitting.
stop this old strut, dig in the battle axe and forget this old shit, it brings no good fruits. while yes, the swiss should bann all parties to, they cost to much power.
i can debate even with a "righty" as i'm told i'm a "lefty", why can't they? why can't they forget this shit?
if we debate without parties program we profit more of it, much more, i get a little closer to his view, he get's a little closer to mine.
a program of a party only hinders this. but true is also as long as they get financial profit of this situation no one will change it)
well i guess D1 you would feel ok with that, $500'000 is a lot of money for one, but not far to much.
health insurance is like most things, a double blade.
it's of course for a swiss no question, we have it since long, since not so long it's a must, no one can live in switzerland without it.
if you can't afford it, the community has to grant it.
but there is also the problem within that, it costs a lot, costs raise every year and we do not know where to get that amount of money from.
it's again a machinery of it's own and health insurance has get to one of the most profitable business, that shouldn't be and clearly leads in the wrong direction,
because they didn't exist for you, they exist for their own wealthy.
thus to much money, or in other words power, got lost on the way until you get in profit of it.
unfortunately people use to have honey on the fingers 😉
well again a good statement D1, about the banks, i'm not little surprised to hear such from a rep, but maybe i think again to much in limits 🙂
the answer, or reason, i posted already above.
but i feel it's also dangerous to limit income, that looks fine for now, but what is tomorrow? will they limit mine to?
a typical question of a swiss 😉
i didn't think so, but still i have some reservations.
let's take a look at the counter side of it, the lowest limit, there is also a petition or the same petition running.
means they think of a minimal income, that sounds good in the beginning, because also i feel i was often payed to little for my work.
but the problem is, as example; i worked in a carpentery, well especially if you make furniture of "real wood", i mean something that lasts a lifetime
isn't cheap and the market is small, also because people today are to much moving for a furniture that lasts a lifetime.
though i made a fine crafts article, but earned little money for it, in fact a 1000 bucks less as some suggest would be the lowest limit.
but i also clearly know that in this case it wasn't possible to pay me more, though i was satisfied, maybe payed to less but did a fine work and this
worthes something to. i could learn new things, get experienced in different things and that is worth something to.
but a lowest limit, would make such a job impossible, you simply earn not enough with that, which is otherwise also a bit the fault of the wealthy people.
because they would have the money to buy a furniture of wood chopped in our own forests.
but it seems they prefere to have furniture from italy or elsewhere, important is only it has to be something exclusive, no matter what wood has been chopped for it and best if it's illegal chopped, then i can feel i'm king, what a stupid thinking.
besides not all of the wealthy think this way and i do know one thing for sure, because i met a some of them in my life.
i know, that most of the selfmade rich, those who earned their money with hard work and a good sense for business think different,
(you can see this already by their appearance, they don't wear silk, vice versa the wear a pair of sneakers and a jeans).
but unfortunatly this is the smaller part of wealthy people, today the situation is quite different and one can earn in a year with some clever business
more as one of them in a whole lifetime, this is bad and obviously people that get this rich that easy have no feel for "reality".
so far to income limits, i feel it's needed somehow, but like i said it's dangerous and could get easy to a boomerang.
better would be the people would start to respect more the principles of a free market and that even nobody can get rich in a long run
if nothing is produced and everything stucks, book money is bad money, it worthes nothing, in fact it lowers only the worth of it.
if you raise the income of all, it would even make the rich richer, maybe not that fast, but persistent.
more things will be bought and logically more has to be produced, more jobs, less of all that gives you and me headakes.
...and maybe then even a common worker can afford a furniture made of real wood chopped in the forest nearby...
sometimes D1, i wonder if they have children and if they do care about tomorrow as we do.
never thought you would be that aged, better wouldn't have told me, i really thought, maybe 45 like me or even less 🙂
nah, it's good to hear, not many stay that young.
would a administrator help?
no, it's not a rethoric question, i mean this for real, at least (re)acting would be faster, i stand behind democracy, but i know well
it's damned slow and often frittered.
does that sound crazy if i say i see myself in such a position well, not because of fame, that's something i don't need to much of.
but to solve all these important problems in a reasonable short time.
i don't have to be listed in a history book, if i see mankind would really prosper.
help! if i told something like that to my parents, especially to mom, she told my clearly i have the ambitions of a nazi.
oh well, i have, lol.
must be somehow genetically...
and yes, i'm a peacful man, but sometimes i only see overpowering as a final solution, it's fantasy yes, but worth at least to think about.
Lot of good points here potsmoke, it has been proven here in the usa that when a politician gets elected to senate,house,president that 95% are millionaires by the time they leave. That's not a bad gig for a 2-6yr job and you get a nice benefits package for the rest of their life. No wonder our society is going to sh*t, its because the people making the decisions for the masses already have when they need. We have politicans in bed with the companies and they pass laws to benefit themselves, it has come out that a lot of politicians do insider trading and there not in jail???? WTF... they would put you and me and martha stewart 🙂 in prision in a minute for that type of activity. Why should they be above the law? Why don't our leaders get audited and sent to prison? I try not to get upset about this sort of thing, but when I see my family, friends, and honest to good strangers struggling to get by it is irritating. Our president generously just giving millions/billions of dollars to countries and we cannot afford it. Our leadership has no concern for its people anymore, people don't get it....
Do people not see what is happening to our world?
Yeah I am a conservative person by nature, but mainly I am a person that wants to do the right thing always no matter how painful it may be. We need leadership that actually wants to perform a service and not look to benefit from their position of power. The people can accept change both good and bad, as long as you show us the evidence of the course of action and it will get us to a goal. USA is approaching 17 TRILLION debt mark, I don't care what anyone says this WILL NEVER BE PAID BACK, EVER! We don't get it we just keep piling it on and no one seems to care, we are turning our currency it worthless crap.
The ones hurt the hardest is our elderly, the government lowered interest rates to basically 0%. WTF, Why? Do they know that the majority of the old people live off interest... now they are eating through there reserves at an alarming rate. If the government is giving the banks 0% interest loans, that means they are making a killing on the money they get, so how come the banks are not giving interest? All of this heartache all over the world is about money. Plain and simple. We have countries now that think they can just close banks and claim peoples money and call it taxes. If this continues to larger countries there will be civil war.
What do we do? That is really the question.
Someone brought up something very true in a article I read the other day. They basically said this, in the 1920-30's you knew the economy was hard because you saw food lines, unemployment lines, gas lines, etc... it was in your face and it wasn't hidden. Now we have food stamps and welfare, which i'm not bashing. But, it hides the true state of the economy. Imagine the outcry if there was thousands and millions of people in line waiting for food, people would DEMAND this to be fixed. We have over 48 million people on some type of assistance in the usa, or 1/6 of the population. That is a crisis and unsustainable in my eyes. People need to see we are hurting so they will stand-up and demand it be fixed.
I don't know Potsmoke, I thank the heavens every day that I do have a job. But you know, I never get a head. Always something keeping the middle class down from going to that next level. The govt's are getting so crazy now that they are starting to ban us from growing gardens on our own property. So now they want to take the right for us to grow our own food. Something is going on here, sometimes its hard to not believe some of the stuff some conspiracy theorists are saying. I still want to know why our gov't bought 1.5 billion rounds of ammo, what the heck are they doing with that...? but that is for another discussion.
You are correct about healthcare it is a double-bladed sword.
For example, had a physical back in december (healthy btw :)) and they drew some blood to do some tests. Get the bill and its over $1000, really? $1000 to run some tests on some blood that a machine does for them. And think about the thousands of people that probably have blood drawn every day. Huge expense here. Yeah I have insurance so they cover a % and I get the rest. So maybe I have to pay under $200 for this. If insurance wasn't around I think $200 would be the average price for this service or lower anyway. Why, because people wouldn't pay $1000 for a simple 'routine' blood test. We need to let people be the deciding factor on what is acceptable payment point for care. I see new hospitals and renovations all the time in these places. I have 4 hospitals withing a 30mi radius of my home. WOW, and I live in a small state of New Hampshire. Four and all of them look beautiful, they make a ton of money off us. And its because the patients don't put up a fight to the bills and the insurance companies paying the huge prices.
Couple years back the wife had a small reaction to two pills she took, raised her heart rate and she got scared. Brought her to the ER and three hours later and one pill they gave her. The bill was $1750, for 3hrs of her laying on a bed and one $77 pill. Crazy!
Guess the best thing for use to do is not get sick and grow our own food and seek out alternative healing practices. Not often you see a hospital close down, but maybe they need to close a few for them to understand that they charge too much.