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"Phoenix" (former Sputnik)



  • i have a new idea for a lmr function
    a parametric shape creator
    i have a slight i dea how to make that and the reason is simple
    it's a brainf*** to make bezier shapes
    and even if you are routined you still have to enter a lot of vectors.
    but such a shape engine could make it a lot easier to create a bezier shape
    of course it won't have sliders like in a cad with a graphical interface
    but it will simplyfie it already if you can draw a shape, measure it and use only a couple of really needed points.

    also about the uv projection i thought.
    it's stupid to dump a model open it in a cad and project the mesh, that doesn't suits the lmr
    i could use the the obj instead to make this detour.
    but i don't wan't to use .obj or a cad, it's a option one can use as mod.
    thus i thought if that would be to reach i with the modelviewer
    to simply project the mesh from given angles, this would suit the system.
    not because i need the data of the projection, because i need eventually or would appreciate
    a 2D projection of the mesh on a image to start a texture.
    and if i have to use a projection i scripted in advance to export such it's still a good thing.
    such a projection is easy and could be unified, even called with a function.

    another option to make it a lot easier would be a layout
    of course it won't fit all ships, but i can anyway only project from a given angle,
    this layout will be sectioned in the views/projections, i'm aware i can only project each object/shape once
    the sheme you could even use for any part of the ship or otherwise.
    the size of a texture is always 1:1 no matter if 1024x1024 or 32x32
    thus you could always use the same data except for the scale, but the scale is to calculate.
    if you know, and when you script a model i assume you know this, how your object/shape is dimensioned
    you know the scale which is to use for this section of the texture.

    even for this i could write a function which will help to find the scale for a given section of the texture.

    but it's no big help i guess, a 2D projection on a image would help far more.

  • So only I can see the picture of the building? That's odd, I followed your instructions and I can see it in my comment. I can see one of your pictures. It looks like an Imperial Hunter near an Arco building on a planet that looks like New Hope in the Epsilon Eridani system. If anyone else is reading this, can you see the images?

  • I just had a thought. My pictures are .png format. Maybe that doesn't work for your OS. I'll try converting them to .jpg tomorrow.

  • Here's a .jpg of the building. It reminds me of FFE.

  • edited April 16

    erm still i can't see a picture you posted,
    but therefore i watched rocky jones and i'm a little bit wiser now :)

    try once to log out of ssc and return to the forum without to log in,
    your'e a stranger then and can make proof this way if someone else could see them

    i'm not sure what causes it, strangewisely when...

    yes i can see your picture when i post it even as a "stranger"

    and the format i should have remembered it is usally .png .jpg or .gif for the web

    and if that buildings in the episode you linked then i assume i've seen it.
    no big deal no, and yes that's what i thought when i saw it "a bit like those irregular blocks from ffe".
    if one likes it really simple, a extrusion with the frontview as polygon to extrude.
    extrusions to extrude a different shape as a quadric haven't been used much, but it's a good way to create a body
    with sides from three on up to as much you like, as much sides as the polygon has.
    the drawback or advantage to i.e. a cylinder is that the sides are flat shaded and it has sharp corners, split vertices in other terms.
    ideal for a eight sided building i.e., because it won't have rounded corners.

    of course if you build the building from single quads you have the advantage to project each quad single on the texture
    while a cylinder or extrusion you can only project the whole body from one side, but you know this.

  • This is really strange. I logged out and could still see my pictures and yours. I hope somebody else comments on this.
    Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the movie.

  • "i'm not sure what causes it, strangewisely when...

    yes i can see your picture when i post it even as a "stranger""

    that's vanished now (?)

    ok, well i said it's uncommon maybe not wanted to do this, i guess to be sure it works i will have to depend on photobucket or another picture service.

    to link to album (directory) or a file it's still a good thing to have cloudspace.

    probably but i'm not sure, the link is quite long when you do it in this way and contains information which is ment to scale the picture on dropbox and other data, probably either this causes the problems or which is also possible the "rubbish" is removed automated, it get's parsed and the link is no longer valid.

    i would recommend to use someelse place to display screenshots from

    perhaps i find a good free one which i can use myself in the near future

  • edited April 16

    i guess i found one, it's a german picture host service and adfree....

    i thought even google pictures would work but it didn't

    looks like there's reason why
    calls himself barrierfree.

    but if you don't like a german hoster i'm sure you will find another,
    google knows i live in switzerland and this was one of the first suggestions
    though if you enter "free picture hoster" it will be for sure located near you.

    it's ment for this - it works best for this

  • Picload looks promising, but I'm thinking this shouldn't be this complicated. I'm going to ask in the screenshot thread how others are posting pictures.

  • i think that's a good idea,

    i've made two new ships, the first is named "Badger" and might remind of the FE2/FFE Transporter also the capacity is about the same.

  • the second is a quick one made from primitives, saucerstyle "Interceptor" (yet another?)

  • very small update to the Badger, i wasn't satisfied with the landing gear / engine pods texture, resp. cuboids are bad to texture
    thus i made cube form quads and changed the texture.

  • "the worlds smallest (underground) spaceport"

    it existed before made from wavefront objects, this is a new geometry from scratch, i didn't took any look at the existing old model.
    the principle is clear
    a small spaceport which allows only for small ships to dock on (later this could be sorted by population instead to assign spaceports randomly,
    little pop - smaller spaceport and vice versa.

    it's not yet finished, it needs a own texture.
    the dock is a cube of ~ 20m sidelength though only fighters have space enough.

    i guess it's possible to launch with any size of ship since collision detection is disabled while docking,
    but to land a large ship isn't possible because you will collide before the docking procedure starts.

    i could this make even more difficult with a fence or simple boundary sticks likewise i used for the old model.

    in principles it could be extendet to 3 docking bays, but i guess for the "tiny port" one dock is enough, if occupied your'e out.
    anyway a single spaceport large or small is needed to create situations like the well known of "Scirocco Station" or "Amundsen" of FE2.
    "all bays full" and only one city and one spaceport.
    mission failed!
    next time you will be more precautious or well take the risk, probably it's free next time or later (in pioneer the ships don't stay to long).

  • This picture of the Atomic 1 just came up as wallpaper on my computer.

    It's a beautiful piece of work. I got used to flying it but I felt uncomfortable in that cockpit up there. Vuzz made this screenshot from Genesia. Many of your models are there, and I have some early Pioneer alphas if you want them.

  • OK, we can cal this ship also "Atomic 1" but i guess i named it once "Stardust", erm the name doesn't soinds special but it's to me.
    "The Stardust" was featured in if i remember right the first series of sci-fi novels from the authors of "Perry Rhodan".
    what i liked most was a spaceship with a "wreck orchestra". sometinhg i always sounding from the engnes to the struts.
    never mind the "atomix 1" or X1 is a simple cigar.

    i can imagine that you won't feel well in this cockpit, one must imagine that the seats position is controlled by a gyroscope.

    somehow a nice model, but it won't find it's way into "phoenix", except as a mod, the project itself will contain only scripted models.
    there is a wide range of ships i could reuse.

    yes i still hold several old builds myself, thus none of the older ships is lost, only about a month of work i lost from "Sputnik",
    but as it looks i have
    a) recovered a lot
    b) rebuilded old and builded some new ships

    is that tailsitter working,
    or have i cheated (i guess) with the landing gear animation (the ship goes in horizontal alignment when retracting the lg)?

    your overworked landing pads and the orbital spacestations are recently out, they need to be overhauled i guess.

    old and forgotten ships (foreign):
    Large Galactical Cruiser (greyoxide if i remember right, only for the basic model, the final version i put together, it was ment as a example for a modular ship,
    you would only buy parts of the ship to ugrade it from a relatively small ship, only the head section, to a large cruiser)
    Talon Fighter (s20dan)
    Boa (s20dan)
    Panther (caribou - s20dan)
    Hammerhead (s20dan, this i like best of him, it's a unique ship)
    Imp. Explorer (s20dan)
    Ghoul (SolCommand)

    more or less

    the "unique" ships i will probably use, wherefore the FE2/FFE ships will be for sure placed in a FFE mod to reflect not only the ships of FFE.

    the goal of Phoenix is to work only with scripts, therefore i aded a lot of helper functions to make that somewhat easier and i'm still working on it,
    functions will be added as soon as i feel "this process could be simplyfied", then i write a new one or change a existing function or sub-model to my needs.
    something very handy, i should have made this long ago, mirror vector x,y,z
    first i started with a simple mirror_x to make scripting vectors a little easier

    mirx = function(vector)
        return v(vector.x * -1,vector.y,vector.z)  

    you enter a vector and the data will be mirrored along x axis, very handy
    later and i don't no why i don't made this rightaway i added
    "miry" and "mirz"

    vectors for a cube look now like this:
    v0 = v(2.5,-2.5,2.5)
    v1 = mirx(v0)
    v2 = mirz(v0)
    v3 = mirz(v1)
    v4 = miry(v2)
    v5 = mirx(v4)
    v6 = miry(v0)
    v7 = mirx(v6)

    of course i coud use "cuboid" to create a smple cuboid but "cuboid" you can only texture the whole object from one direction.
    however that's one of the most handy functions and saves a lot of time.

    i also completed the "materials list", i started this out wih "sputnik" and it was left uncompleted, i looked at it, found out what i made wrong
    back then and have now a material table to select a predefinied maerial from.
    that's also very handy and additionally keeps the materials used the same through the whole game

    instead to **** up your brain what material specs you need you simply enter get_material(matlist.steel) as example.
    probably, but this i have to check first i can even register the used material when i call the function, this would even help
    instead to declare each time the "materials" in the info section.

    one but i guess i presented this long ago, solved your problem with the string length in station names

    autoscale_text = function(size,offset,string_input)
        return size*offset / math.max(offset,string.len(string_input))

    very simple, it just scales a text to a given count of glyphs
    "size" is the maximum scale for the text
    "offset" the length in glyphs with this scale or i other terms the space i have
    "string_input" is the names string itself i.e. "Marcel's Hideout"

    "offset" & "string" will finally influence the scale no matter what "maximum scale" is, maximum defines only the scale for the 7 glyphs of "Pioneer"
    this to check in the modelviewer the size of the text, at offset 7 the space you need is exactly like the label "Pioneer"
    you can vary this a little by using a different offset, i.e. 10, now 10 is the limit and the size will be kept in the length of 10 glyphs i the given scale.

    now it wont matter if the station/city is named
    it will have enough space it only gets quite tiny with such a long name.

    not that long but quite longer as "pioneer"

    "Chalatnikow Newtown"

    you can still download alpha releases from upon alpha9, sources at least, builds i don't know they won't get that far back i guess.
    but also buids form this time i still hold i.e. "bob the builder (alpha9 & 10)".

    it's just a mess and certain builds are in my storage, some in the downloads folder and some are along with the Pioneer i'm working with and some
    are in the folder for the project(s).

    many things i had fortunately bunkered on my mom's macbook. unfortunatly not the latest build of "Sputnik", just a compiled release which i never published
    but it misses a lot i made later and i can't run it on my 32bitXP because it was made on a win7x64.
    this compiled project and the remnants on my HD i used to start "Phoenix".

    the next step would be checking the "old" build for changes i made (some) and compiling a new build for "Phoenix", including the small lchanges.
    recently i'm not very lucky with compiling a alpha31because several files in the "pioneer_thirdparty" repo (alpha31) are broken.
    the new repo won't work because it has changed a lot since then and old repo's aren't available (well one should have thought of this, you can download
    surces down to alpha9 but you can't find a matching thirdparty" repo, thus it's useless).
    older builds had the repo in the source but from a certain release on they split the thirdparty repo from the source.
    i found a old fork from "philbywizz" which is alpha31 and he included the repo. probably but i haven't tried it yet,
    i can use this repo or i can use it at least to replace the broken files in mine (some files and even some scripts i recovered have only garbled content).

    for some reasons i would lke to get back to alpha9, if it would be possible even more, mainly because the changes in the AI
    also for easyness of scripting missions, it was a lot easier, dirty programmed as robn said but well good to understand for a human what each module does.
    further no need to respect languages which complicates the thing uselessly, i prefere english since aeons to play frontier or even pioneer, German? i think it sounds stupid for a space game, no i don't need i don't want.

    "ahhh, we have a Pioneer in thousend languages, but well we speak in the forum only english (there was a german thread once)"
    so what? (what for are they good, except to make more and even more work to do?).

    however i have the sources and have access to GitHub though i can compare changes, which have been made since that.

    it's sad that i can't play any of the new releases of pioneer and this was what i always warned of even when i had a win7x64
    "don't forget the poor dudes which can't afford a new machine, not everybody has a high wage, some have to work physically hard and get "nothing" for it"

    it should run now on old machines, but as usual it doesn't (how could i be proof of that it will run if i don't own such a old machine?
    theoretically won't help - theoretically i could be a billionair but i ain't. what counts, yes i told this a 100 times before, is praxis not theory)
    does it work?
    then it doesn't works no matter the theory.

    this hasn't changed snc a couple of years, you as user ask for something and in return you get a "theoretically...", instead that they track the problem,
    or give you the feeling to be taken serious.

    no means no and not probably!
    if it fails it fails!
    a bad is a bad!

  • what isn't bad is this,
    i worked a little on my singleport station and i guess it turned out well for a scripted model.

    single and underground

    you won't collide with the terrain because while the docking procedure runs the collision checking is disabled
    of course you can see for a brief moment the terrain, resp. the ship sinks into the ground viewed from above
    but to me this doesn't matters much, a subterranean station matters more and the next will be a 3 port similar to FE2.
    and if i ever get it sorted out how to predefine a "outdoor world"'s city/station, then i can even seperate the "hostile" from the common "groundstations".
    which would mean such underground stations would be placed only on hostile planets.

    the next model i already started is a rebuild of the "big wheel" i posted a coule of years ago (remember that?),
    the model is one of the lost ones i can't find that anymore.
    that's quite sad.

    old screenshots:
    the large tube variation of the "big wheel" (scripted version, not to confuse with the "big wheel" i made in blender once, this still exists but it's a "solid" model i wan't use for "Phoenix". apart from that it would be to large for pioneer, but read later how this can be bypassed).

    the wheel itself

    and the small port variation

    it's at least good to have the screenshots rom "sputnik", it gives me a idea how it looked,
    further i'm not sure if i will make such a large tube again, the polycount was horrible for this monster object,
    also i had to trick pioneer to make it work,
    i case for he tube i had to move the station 300m in back of the releasing collision check (quad), strangewisely else the docking procedure failed.

    later and that was a different test and had nothing to do with sputnik
    i rebuilded the "orbital city" from FFE (i.e. Mars Station)
    this object is extremely giant and it won't work in this size for pioneer (a size limit? why? to avoid lunacy or what?)
    but it helped when i made a collision mesh only for the front part of the huge station, the rest has no collision mesh and due to that "no size".

    spacestations have to be made new for "phoenix" since the largest ship you can buy has a diameter of ~100m, which won't fit into the "spacestation entry"
    recently only the naked "big crappy" is present to have one orbital station at all.
    similar for the ground stations, there is none left except for the "large groundstation" (pad size 150m) and the "dome station" which i made for "Sputnik".
    and of course te new "single port".

    it's ok to have stations and ports which are to small for the large ships, but some or most must be big enough.

    large and 50m above the ground, still under certain circumstances it can be covered by the terrain, which looks nonetheless reasonable.

  • edited April 22

    i almost forgot, the "station splash" contains a little clock, the blue and red dot (planet & moon) circle the yellow dot (sun),
    while the small red circles the blue dot to show the seconds (one pass = 1 minute)
    the blue shows the minutes (one pass 1 hour).

    special planet movement clock, not good to read the time from but looks quite nice.

  • edited April 23

    a question to myself
    "why does most ships designs have only large forward thrusters?"

    i think that's shitty, someone designs a spaceship for a game like pioneer where a lot of things are reasonable and you come off with a ship with fou giant thrusters in the rear and no reverse or laeral thrusters, how could such a ship fly?

    i know even i didn't builded all ship in a manner tha they would work or that the thruster nozzle size would reflect the thrust,
    but i'm trying to or trying to be as close to this as possible.

    but when ilook at sketches or ships of other modelers they always have only the big thrusters in the ear, 4, 6, 8 of them,
    to me that didn't looks really good.

    let's take a look at my last ship

    the four thruster pods have main and rear thrust nozzles, already with this setup, because they are relatively far from each i could steer the ship
    along the 3 axes, climb/dive, yaw and even rotate over Y is possible.
    what's missing is rotate along the ships axis and crawl sidewards as well lift & sink.

    with adding of the thrusters "up" & "down" i reached even this and now the ship can roll (it could anyway in the game, but i use no antigrav engine)
    along it's axis as well to lift.
    thus you see you don't have to use all directions like i did for the "Badger".

    of course some ships leak of this especially the "Rapier" or the "Hullcutter" which also have only large main thruster nozzles.
    but firstt hey are quite old models and second i had a Hullcutter version with the proper thruster nozzles fitted.
    this could be added anytime .

    further, if you have a ship like my saucer style "interceptor" with missing sidewards thrusters one should reduce the left/right thrust to a minimum (a fraction of 1G),
    thus it's in the game really disfunctional and the ship will behave different.

    they don't look bad but usually i guess "no, this ship won't be to maneuver".

    halfways it should also reflect the thrust, if i have a shi like the good old "Large Galactical Cruiser"

    6 i mean SIX giant thrusters in the rear, but nothing else
    also a freighter, a ship with a rather low acceleration and then REAR THRUSTERS as big as if it's ment to accelerate with 100G's
    even if you add reverse and lateral thrusters they won't stand in any reation to the big rear thrusters whch produce prob. a accel. of 10G
    if i add now a small thruster for reverse it will have looked at the size a thrust of 0.1G, by the meaning of 100 times smaller = 100 times less efficient.

    imho most is based on SW and other sci-fi movies or comics, SW is a fine example, in SW the ships usually only have forward thrusters, how to steer a ship isn't relevant it seems.

    a Stardust in action

    nah, even this ship hasn't proper thrusers fittet.

    at least they all look better as this one

    excerpt of "Learn Vertex and Pixel Shader Programming with DirectX 9", wordware publishing inc.
    Learn Vertex and Pixel Shader Programming with DirectX 9

    could one design a ship with less polygons?
    and is that because most modelers are men that many ships remind of something phallic?
    "testa di gazzo"

    and if mine doesn't look like that (mostly) does this mean i'm gay?

  • Sorry I got the name of the Stardust wrong. It's been years since I took it for a test flight. Your work looks fantastic! A thought about tail-sitters, The Police Mecha has an interesting landing gear animation . It transitions from a vertical standing robot to a horizontal flying mode. The orientation for the player is horizontal when the ship is standing and when its flying. Perhaps the animation could be translated into Lua for a tail-sitter.

  • edited April 23

    You have to enlighten me Marcel, "Police Mecha" is that content of the recent Pioneer? And yes i used even the same for my tailsitters, but i'm not really satisfied with this.
    it's a problem of dierction and thrust. if i design a Talsitter which rotates to horizontal alignment, i have to make unrealistic thrust, the idea of a tailsiter is to have only a lot of main thrust and only little to maneuver, just enough to maneuver the ship in free fall (without firing main thrusters) and if you laid in the proper course to fire then the main thrusters.
    if i design a ship like you mentioned i need at least enough "up thrust" (quasi lift in horizontal alignment) to launch, because no matter how i rotate the ship wit the LG animation, vertical stays vertical. In other terms, if my ship stands now uright on the pad dosn't matters, respectively it shows the rear down but it's in fact still horizontally aligned and to launch i need the "up thrust". Now for a figure, like the Cyborg i leaned out once from SW-XWA it won't mater and you will give him similar thrust in all directions, that is reasonable for such a "Spacemen Suit". A tailsiter will have a quite different setup to work really as a tailsitter and if i give it the same thrust for "up" as for "forward" it won't act like a tailsitter, but i have to if i rotate the ship with the LG animation.

    Thus either i do it like for the Atomic1 and it's finally only manual to maneuver but has a "realistic" thruster setup, or my Rocket won't act like a Rocket.

    there is another problem if i rotate a missile shaped rocket with the LG, it will aproach a spacestation wrong and turned to upright as soon as the docking procedure starts.

    this would all be no big roblem if there wasn't this problem with the "wrong" upwards thrust for a tailsitter.

    In words this is complicated to express, but when you have the ship you will understand immedialy what i mean.

    Thus to make really use of a tailsitter, i mean a real tailsitter, the Stardust isn't a tyical one, because for this ship design it's no problem to have enough directional thrust to lift it from the ground, it was never ment to be this restricted like the "Atomic 1"

    but "Atomic 1" is a real tailsitter and has only enough forward thrust (resp. up which will be forward for the "non rotating" tailsitter), enough to lift a ladden ship, exactly on the limit and on a high gravity body you can't lift, that was the idea. it will have ladden a thrust of max. 5G in a single direction!
    all other thrusters have only enough thrust to maneuver the ship in free fall, maybe 1G empty and a fraction of it when ladden (~0.5G)
    maybe even less!

    recently i find only the overhauled or "public" version of the "Atomic 1" which has similar thrust in all directions except "down".

    ths isn't the one i used for ->

    however, you forced me to dig out the "Atomic 1" and implement it to "Pioneer a31" to show you what is the difference.

    (dunno if i will use a31 in future, it seems to me it's unstable, my former companion from AUS also ment this and he took as base a a30 release.
    it lacks of some new things but prob. these cause the instability and damned a lot of modules don't work proper and i ask myself now again how they checked this or do they feel they are as good that it's not needed to proof if they work always? old problems i liked to avoid and that's why i left Pioneer. and i know right now again why i liked to go back as far as possible or would even like to revert it to the state it was as long as TomM still was involved, "better make small steps and advance slowly as to implement a lot and end up in a mess" if somethng is proof you can implement the next.)

    also i stated this already because of the modules scripting itself, it has getting very complicated with the "new" devs and one needs programming skills to understand how the shit works. Tom's was maybe "dirty programmed" but simple and good to understand. if i need programming skills to write a module what for use a script? you could then do it as well "hardcoded", because if it's not ment to be user editable it doesn't have to be LUA.

    never mind gernötli, work on your build and fill FFED3D with the missing models, dammit!

    shit! if i remember right one of his first changes was to change the perspective view in the modelviewer to a orthographic, because he understood me when i said it's useless to have a grid in a perspective view (vice versa to "our friends" who doesn't wanted to understand me, no matter what i said). it's simple just take a look at any CAD, you only have a grid in orthographic view and only if your view is "unidirectional" from either one side, else a grid has no use. you have the grid to help you to see the dimensions of a body, to measure by the eye and this only works in orthographic view, else how can i see a difference of a lowered Landing gear front to rear? in perspaective view is always what is farer smaller and the grid doesn't helps a shit. what i would need or would be senseful is fixed view angles like in any CAD and a orthographic view.
    it annoys me again, changes to that modelviewer which was made are all shit, it won't show all equipment anymore neither you can type in the number for a special item to visualize if now the "whatever extra" is positioned right (whatfor is the modelviewer if not to check the animations? and i mean all of the animations not what "somebody" who doesn't models thinks is needed).

    sometimes i suspect many changes back then have been only made to make me angry hoping i will leave he project soon.
    really because some changes are absolutely useless, but i had continusly to fix my ships to the new conditions.

    if that "Police Mecha" is content now of pioneer it's only a evidence for this, if i made such i was called a lunatic, if someone else do it it seems it's fine.
    no matter what they said it's not ment personally or as a attack on me, it was in fact, this shows it well.

    and exactly such i hate like the pestilence, to be false and not rightous person, you might be caesar but if you aren't rightous you are miserable to me, vice versa you might be a beggar, but if you are rightous you are my friend.

  • edited April 23

    besides i'm a former construction worker i can see the alignment in a reality, that'sno problem resp. that's the experience of a construction worker.
    but the perpective view in pioneer or any artificial isn't exactly like reality, it helps a shit that i see in reality the alignment.
    for a 3D projected on 2D i need the orthographic view.

    "if i made such i was called a lunatic"
    and right in the next buld this was restricted if it didn't harmed the rest of the game.
    or is there i.e. any other reason not to show a certain equipment in the MV? No!
    "we don't like gernot's animated antenna he uses for the radar mapper because we feel it's wrong , thus we disable it to make the use of it near to impossible"
    that's the true reason behind.

    due to such i have and had always to start the game for a final check instead that i could use the modelviewer which was originally ment for this.
    i never understood this, sorry.
    it's no "toy" to play around with, it's to create models with the LMR unavoidable.

    really i didn't thought that i will vomit all the old shit again.
    but well being confronted with the same willingly implemented problems leads to the same frustration.

    and it's more then just sad that i lost contact to my companion due to a crashed machine, because finally i found one who understood every single longing i had and who didn't said "your lunatic", vice versa he said my ideas are brillant.

  • edited April 23

    "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (sigmund freud)

    and sometimes a cigar is a tailsitter ;)

    it's no longer the "Atomic X1", "X" means experimantal but i left the expermental stage and this is now "Atomic MK I"

    and sometimes a fastener is also a tailsitter, or a pencil, or whatever i got in my hands as a child

    but it seems i'm not the only lunatic and some even earn money with their lunacy

    "bubentraum" i posted this once no?

  • the "fish" is ready

  • edited April 24

    a "ship" (isn't the proper term, a Rocket it is) for champions.

    the messed up controls due to the wrong alignment make it hard to control this vessel.
    also you can't use computer contolled flight, or it will fly sidewards with ~1G instead of vertical with 10G.
    it means you can use this Rocket only i manual flight, no problem it suits such a ship, it's to imagine it simply has no computer controlled flight mode.
    further i even restricted the autopilot because the autopilot can't handle this as well.

    thus it's really a ship for champs
    to fly you control it best in external view (loose), then you see how the rocket is aligned to the horizon or to a spacestation.

    "braking is for cowards"
    no reverse thrust or near to 0, 1 i have to enter but 1 (not 1G) is negligible.

    marcel i will PM you and beam my rotten old Pioneer a31 (Phoenix) up, just that you can experiment with this missile shaped fish.
    i wish you already now a lot of fun with it.

    i can't say if you can use it in a recent build.
    first it must be dumped and then converted to Collada, but i won't do this i have no interest in lousy collada models.
    i have no interest in fact to do anything for "Pioneer", i'm finished with it since TomM left i can say.

    for Walterar's Scout it would be different, i lke him and he respects me, but it won't be possible unless i have a new machine.

    see they punched me out, why should i have any interest?
    i'm naive but i'm no idiot.
    i can stand to slapped in the face three or four times but even i have some pride.

    it's for me OK to work on a old release and maybe like i said i turn the wheel even more back, it's buggy as it never was before.
    i can't say how this recently is but i guess the crew didn't changed thus why should have anything changed or have gettin' better?

    oh yes even i have my pride,
    i've had enough time to reflect what has happened and my conclusion was "where would pioneer be without me" even when there are since a long time no more models from me in pioneer. but you will agree and say "yes - nowhere we would be", i was the first who added models to it and whatever they think or say they can't steal this, it's written in the book of history and not to erase.

    truely you geraldine and me was quite the first ones apart from Tom Morton and without us it wouldn't be even here on SSC, without geraldine even i would have missed it.
    i remember this well, we stayed all in "Frontier forums" and had a lot of fun talking about old FFE or FE2, i really stumbled once over TomM's project, but to be honest i thought "incomplete, looks not bad but FFED3D is better", i didn't even downloaded it and took a closer look at it.
    a few months later geraldine pionted on "pioneer" and suggested that this "empty" game should be filled with models and that it's worth to take a closer look at it.

    and that's how it started.

  • The Police Mecha is in Scout Plus. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear about that. Here's a picture of it landed.

    It's kind of dark, but you get the idea. The legs fold back behind the cockpit for horizontal flight. If you could make the animation for lowering the landing gear rotate the ship instead you would need to make the bottom thrusters equal to the main thruster for it to work.
    I see why you need to improve the model viewer. It's neglected because to make a model in Pioneer currently you need to use Blender. You can make the model viewer into a LMR tool.
    I'm looking forward to flying the fish!

  • edited April 24

    phew, i made it
    landed rough near the station i started, but it was quite a thing, it's really a ship which is extremly hard to handle (sometimes in the morning?).
    sorta "Rocky Jones" scenery, he building is a dirty quick one, but that's what i remembered of "menace from outerspace".

    i will have to send you a update, i made a misake when i set the Atomic up and the thrusters work wrong, still it's a beast even when they work proper now.
    keep in mind that you have to rotate the ship that forward will be forward (sidewards for this rocket) else it's even more confusng if left becomes right
    and forward becomes backwards. also it needs o fire the main thrusters from time to tme, else you crash.

    i guess one who can maneuver this rocket can maneuver any ship.
    land with it like with a real lander module
    have phun

    recently the "Atomic MK I" is quite large, 100m tall, but it's easy to scale it to your choice.
    the scale for the ships i put in front of every script, together with the lod and the radius, thus if anything needs to be changed it's quickly done.
    if you alter the scale of a ship alter also the scale in the ships setup to the same value, the scale influences the angular thrust in my setups.

    besides i kept this system forall models in phoenix, stations and buildings to, the scale is always leading anything other because it influences all
    radius and lod.
    stations should "autoscale" and "autoposition" you find on top of the script a position vector and a scale which will if the script in the directory stations is also updated
    make it possible to easy scale or position the stations (lift of the ground i.e.). the docking animation should be scaled as well (should there is no warranty, but if i haven't forgot it it will work).

  • I can see that you sent me two messages but I can't open them. I don't know what's wrong, but I can see that you finally saw that building! :)

  • edited April 24

    you can't open the message..
    open the message... hmmm

    ok i didn't liked to make it public because of the copyrighted music in it, but if you can't open the essage you won't get the link.
    let's see if i can transfer it to your dropbox, i guess that should work with dropbox.

    no i can't get it right
    they stated "enter name or e-mail" but it seems with the name i derivated from your dropbox it didn't works.

    maybe you have to wait somewhat, i'm not sure but probably even PM's must pass a admin.

    if it all fails i wil have to remove the music and then i can link it here.
    why not rightaway?

  • edited April 24

    soon ready to make it public, i emoved the critical classical music, what's left is pioneer, some amiga modules and some public midi files (in .ogg certainly).
    converted MIDI files which are PD i will include in future more, because it's a safe way to implement classical music to the game.
    or even some rock music, most isn't good what you fnd of rock music in midi, but some aren't bad.
    i downloaded a midi of pink floyds "echoes" and since it's composed on the piano it sounds well played only on a piano.
    other sound completely shitty and usually they replaced the voices with a chorus or even "voice", but argh it sounds stupid.
    also some only read in the notes to produce the files, you can use a software to read a scanned notes sheet and it will convert the notes to a midi file.
    while the result is simply piano and sounds usually very artificial.
    for Bach's music this works well, it's almost artificial anyway, straight mathematics.

    i really would like to playback midi or soundtracker modules (modplug is opensource and can be used in any software, it plays all module formats and midi as well)
    the advantage is the filesize, a midi or a soundtracker module needs only a few kB.
    you could fill the game with hours of music and use not a 10th of what you need for a mp3 or ogg.
    especially the soundracker modules are quite good or better as a midi because it uses own samples and not standard midi samples.
    i have a piece of organ from bach as module and it sounds damned good, almost like a real organ because the samples are took from a organ.
    the samples are very low in bitrate, usually 8bit in 8000 or 11025 kHz, but you won't notice such in a module, it wll be dithered to the bitrate and frequency you specify.
    it's somewhat "obsolate" nonetheless modules have advantages, not only the filesize. a module is controlled first by how it's made, but the player can do a lot with the content of a module, transposing, speed, loudness, almost anything you could control. if one likes he can even use it to generate music from samples, it's a true computer format and not "recorded music".
    thus it would be possible to let the machine compose, routines for such exist since computers exist.
    many years ago i had a proggy which converted any notes to Bach's style.
    you enter a couple of notes and the software generates a piece of music of it, certainly artificial and not really good, but i think it would open interesting possibilities for a game, compose music in each system based on the seed for the system. each system would have it's own "music" .
    endless music and the filesize will equal almost to zero.

    eh, the devs of "modplug" are certainly not from yesterday, it's still modern, it's still more advanced as a mp3, it's like i said a true computer format.
    and if the machine has a soul like some expect, then this soul will prefere it to compose & play music instead only to playback.
    TRON would be amazed i guess ;)

    the file is now about half of the size due to the deleting of the music.
    here we go:

    thought that the PM's will be to open once (maybe they must pass a admin first), the links in it are dead, i removed the files from my dropbox.
    valid is now ony the above link.

    this "composition" (it's no build yet) is based on the remnants of "Sputnik", Vuzz's "Genesia (alpha31) and a alpha31
    which i still had on my drive and the new stuff i made.
    it's anything else as stable, don't be surprised, but i didn't exect that my models or scripts cause the errors, but if you find a specific one which is related to my models or functions
    then i wil appreciate a report.
    i appreciate also the other bug reports, but recently i can't fix them, first i have to manage to make a build with my existing garbled stuff of alpha31 or 30.
    the ain problem is like i posted already the "pioneer thirdparty" directory, the recent won't work for alpha31 and older ones aren't to find on GitHub,
    except for the one i found on Philbywizz's account, but i will first have to make proof if it works (it should).

    (and fix that goddamned keyboard, resp. trash it and fix your old MS Internet Kb., it's not to stand how many glyphs i miss and i hammer on that cheap Medion Kb).

    further there is still the option to go back to alpha9, it includes a "thirdparty repo", but somehow it fails nonetheless, i lost patience and made models then.
    i know i will lose a lot when i return to alpha9, but i even would like a older build.

    if someone still hods such a damned old source from TomM i would really appreciate it to get this in my hands, because i like to go a own way from on the point where TomM stopped to actively develop pioneer.

    it won't look as fancy as it does now, but i would like it, i would like to make my own "faults" and see where i get with it.
    most of all (but maybe exactly this is the cause why they aren't to find anymore) because of the unbeatable AI.

    i guess it's not appreciated if someone releases a pioneer in which you can play and not only visit and stare at the beauty of it.
    but i really miss the dogfights, since this change i never really played pioneer, i mean i do played, but with little nterest or only to check if my models work as expected.
    small "experiments" but no real play.
    as long as we had the old AI, damned i played a lot and it was a lot of fun to play it.
    missions are cool and certainly something which is needed, but well i would need no missions at al if i can win against a AI, if there would be only a slight chance.
    then it's enough to carry goods from A to B and fight against some pirates which wil await you.
    tome this is the game, this is the paragon FE2, of course you have military missions (some), but well this means batteling.
    this means for a recognize mission to fight against a hundred imperial (or federal) ships.
    and that's the game!
    which works well even still with the pure vector graphics of FE2.
    it's fun to play, even when it's 30 years old.

    and i guess i'm not wrong when i say "Pioneer was planned as a sort of modern Frontier", and if this is true then why it has gettin' so boring?
    to have a toy for the devs?

    Walterar made a very good job to get the last out of it with his "Scout", unfortunately i can't play it.
    and i guess i'm neither wrong when i recommend his scout over pioneer itself.
    at least the last scout i played or peeped in was fun with his modules, certainly a lot found their way into pioneer.
    and no it's not because he bunkered my models, i appreciate this much, but models didn't make the game, this i know well.

    Pioneer was almost at it's best when we had only the sirius interdictor, ladybird, flowerfairy and walrus.
    4 "lousy" ships, but well it was a game and not just visiting a far system.

    these 4 "lousy" ships still stay in Phoenix, just to remind of who builded pioneer, who stood behind this and who had the right idea of it.

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