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"Phoenix" (former Sputnik)



  • edited April 24

    sorry for my long text(s), but i have to utter this.
    a week ago i entered "Frontier" (or something similar) into Google and stumbled over a guy who liked to create a modern frontier for his graduation.
    "i like to make a game like FE2, with pure vector graphics"
    well i like this idea.
    because he likes to make a GAME an not something to stare at.

    did any of you ladies and gentlemen took a look at this:

    well it din't looks like much, but you have to read not to stare, "it didn't looks good" (it does to me)
    BUT IT SOUNDS GOOD what sort of game he likes to make!
    and this matters.
    the traffic is extremly low and except of me no one commented or enforced him in his project.

    now we look at the opposite

    here the traffic is enourmous just because of the overwhelming graphics, but it's no game, it's just a collection of graphical nice looking things.
    i don't like to be unfair but i assume it would even push my rampage III at it's limits.
    that's not a game that's just "see what nice stuff i can create with my super modern computer"

    see that's what i'm talking about, but i'm sure "space adventurers" will be real fun to play.
    the goal is not to show the most fancy thing you can get out of your graphics card
    the goal he has is to build a game, he's a pro and knows what is needed, unfortunately most are to blind to see it.

    "space adventurers" would be my choice and i hope i can produce a little traffic on his projects site here to enforce him to carry on, because i know right now it will be a good game.

    but yeah i understand if he would have cancelled it, because if no one shows interest i dont' have to make it.

    i know i'm right, i wasn't always that sure, but now i am.
    my former compagnion told me i'm absolutely right and as well this guys ideas about how such a game soould be to play even underscores what i think.

    damned "Astro Kid" is more fun to play as pioneer, believe me.
    and that's just pointing with a cosshair on countless ships in shitty sprites graphics.

    i have to post this here, the working title of astro kid was...?
    make a guess

    'Calvin and Hobbes - Goes for the Gusto'
    "...but due to copyright restrictions it couldn't be distributed via Aminet. So it was totally rewritten and the graphics were redone".

    i'm pretty sure, if the recent devs of pioneer couldn't have sit in a ready made nest, we wouldn't even know them.

  • edited April 24

    me i'm just a "nobody"
    but i was well known as FE2 pilot before we started with pioneer,

    FE2 not FFE, i didn'tknew it existed at all before i subscribed to Frontier.forums.
    but i played FE2 since... it must have been 94 or 95 when i inherited the CD32 version from a friend who didn't liked the open ended FE2.
    haven't that CD anymore, it was complete with the system map of the core systems shipped with it, but i still hold the CDROM image i made back then of it.
    and stil it's along with the PC version my preferred Frontier, mostly because of the in FFE standard "navigation aid", which was first implemented in the CD32 version of FE2.
    unlike in FFE it's not everywhere available and you need a certain ranking before it appears in the commodities list.
    it's the most stable version of FE2, the PC version i only like because of the textured objects, that's fine, and because if you took a old version resp. a certain file of the first release you still have the "wormhole bug" present.
    now one could counter "buffet" does the same trick", no i doesn't buffet is heavy cheating and the "wormhole" in buffet will transport you immediatly to any target.
    unlike the "wormhole bug", to make use of it you have to calculate your jumps or use a special proggy which does it for you and thus you can see this as part of the game.
    it's not easy to use it right.

    i had earned some laurels already on, because of my unconventional solutions.
    because of my deep knowledge of FE2's objects (models in other terms).
    maybe just because i showed them that this or that is possible even when they was told before it isn't.
    ceratainly when i look back to 2007 i was a bloody beginner and made hundreds of wrong guesses (but found nonetheles the right solution).

    not to talk about all the friends i made at frontier forums which still are my best friends in web, i share the most memories with them.

    "draw curve from v1 to v2" or maybe even vice versa, return to vector1

  • Marcel can you do me a favour?

    i still have this problem with wrong coordinates when i rotate along the Y axis.

    do you remember that i posted once a lot of examples how some cities are displaced if i regulary position them along the aequator?

    but none of the devs took this serious, as if i would cheat to make a evience hapen just to post something, no there is a error.

    now i wonder if it has been fixed, to test this you can do what i did once
    just position cities on a planet in a regular manner like every 5 degrees one
    if you don't like to make such a script i can see if i find my old example.

    but i really would like to know if this is solved because this is extremely vital! (at least i magine this as extremly vital)
    no it is, the coordinates will nfluence a lot behave of the game, pioneer is geometry and if something elementary is wrong the whole game is "wrong".

    this isn't bound to the LMR else it wouldn't show up when you create a custumized planet.

    i stumbled now over it because i liked to make a iris type hatch and use for this a "for loop" to shorten the process of typing (vice versa it turned out to a big problem)
    i listed then the sub-models separate and what had my bloodshot eyes to see?
    a irregular behave, instead that i can use always the same data, degrees to rotate, the parts flipped around such hat i thought "that's simply not possible".
    but it is possible else it wouln't have shown up in this manner.
    i checked my data, vectors and rotation a dozend times, but no there is no error i made, it behaves irregular.

    it's not the first time i used a for loop to rotate parts, but the first time it failed and it's just because of y axis and certain values.
    for this model it was in betwen 0 and 45 degrees.
    if i remeber right on a planet it was in around 10 degrees where the error showed up and the cities was slpattered anywhere but not where you expect them.

    i know that i reported this as a issue, bu i haven't been taken serious as usual, resp. they said it's neglectible,
    wrong coordinates are neglectible?
    to repeat pioneer is geometry and if something is wrong with the coordinate system the whole game will reflect this.
    (personaly i feel either they think they make no errors or it's just because i posted the issue).

    well if fluffyfreak thought it's good that there is no problem with the shaders and it really was one of my errors, i'm no god i'm human and do make errors.
    "trust your computer but not it's programmer, errare humanum est"
    but well shaders are less as secondary to the coordinate system.

  • I got the files this morning. Thanks! I'll test and give you some feedback.

  • edited April 24

    part two (i'm a slow typer)

    you know that we two rebels Vuzz and i had never been taken serious by them, with exception of fluffyfreak and philbywizz
    right yesterday i opened occasionally a old issue he posted, the answer was "it must be YOUR graphics card"
    (it was a pic with far to large blobs (the spherical sprite stuff) and i guess it was when they made this error to enlarge the blobs for distance of the billboard lights
    thus i suspect it wasn't his graphic card or a opengl error (how could that be opengl is if you use the same version 100% the same on every windows driven machine) it was this wrong behave of the blobs)..
    always we two received such answers instead that they would have taken it seriuos.
    if that was a small problem with some graphical stuff or a serious one like the coordinate system, it was always our fault or the machine we use.
    (in the very last case it will be the machine "trust your computer..." thus it's either my fault or... however "errare humanum est"
    the one who thinks he makes no errors makes the biggest error by thinking this.)

    you don't have to post it as a issue, i just like to know if this has been fixed meanwhile, let's say it's only good for my selfrespect.
    either result will help me, if it still stays, i was right - if they fixed it i was right even.

    really even if i sad i don't like to do anything for pioneer no more, this is such a vital thing that i just have the players in mind and they are still important to me.
    further if it's fixed or not, it will probably help me to find out where this evil bug hides and i can blast the life out of it.
    resp. if it's solved i don't have to care about that anymore, only for my own future releases.

    i'm not sure what hey thought "that it won't matter just because only a idiot will position cities along the aequator in a regular manner"?
    it wasn't because of the city coordinates, this is only a way to make it proof, it's the whole thing which must have a bug somewhere,
    else it wouldn't show up everytime where you like to rotate something along the y axis.
    that z don't works to rotate i know since a long time and understand also why.
    but x and y have to work in the same manner when i rotate.
    if i rotate along x this error didn't shows up, only y axis and only certain values.
    nether i think it has something to do with the radiants, the system works for x also it has to work for y.

    of course when you create a body i.e. a sphere it won't show up because the vectors are tied to each other by the geometry itself.
    neither it shows up when you rotate something dynamic, in other terms a animation, even this seems to me comprehensible, because it didn't stays at a certain value and
    thus the vectors are even "tied to each other", it can't flip around when it's moving.
    it only shows up for single vectors, such as when you rotate something to a certain position.

    there is a bug in the coordinate system and i would have interest in fixing this before fixing anything else, geometry is pioneers skeleton.

    dunno either if we still have a problem with the collada animations for rotate, even here it showed up, they "solved" it but well i don't know if they fixed the coordinates or simply wrote a workaround (i suspect the latter).

    collada animates like i animate in a script it doesn't uses a matrix to rotate and translate, it uses vectors and degrees
    (not radiants, the reason i guess to use degrees and not radiants in this format is caused by it's resolvability resp. portability, you can load it to any CAD and the animation will work proper)

    and here we are degrees to radiants
    once i supected it's the little difference of a fixed value for pi (3.1416) or math.pi which has i guess a precision of 9 positions after the floating point.
    of course also math.pi has a little imprecision but well far less as 3.1416.

    i noticed also in the source that all apearances of math.pi had been changed to a fixed value and dammit the bug can be reasoned exactly in this.
    3.1416 isn't pi it's close to but not close enough to.
    and obviousely this won't show up in a animation where i rotate with radiants, but with degrees which must be coverted first to radiants, well that could be the error.

    now this has come to my mind when i wrote this down (though it has a use when i write such walls of text, often i get the right idea when i write my thoughts down, the remembering of the collada format was the firing spark)
    and i guess i will check this for myself if it still shows up when i use again math.pi for deg2rad instead of the fixed value, i was told once it's "better" to use a fixed value
    (assumed it still works to use math.pi)

    (less to calculate and as it would be no good idea to use C expressions in LUA, i mean they removed some other legal C stuff, maybe just to make gernötli angry the few C expressions in LUA are absolutely legal for LUA, you can read this in any LUA trainer, it's not lunacy it's legal LUA)
    but it seems in case for pi this thought is wrong and in fact pi can't be exact enough it's only a nearing value and never exact.

    to make it really proof i would have to revert all appearances of 3.1416 in the source to math.pi whch is a legal C expression.

  • I couldn't follow all the technical details, but I think that making a variant of Pioneer that runs on lower spec machines is a worthy goal.
    The Frontier ships aren't allowed in Pioneer, but in variants like Genesia and Scout Plus they are. I'm sure you could use them if you wish.
    It'll be a week or so until I can try out what you sent me. Thanks again!

  • edited April 25

    i gues you misunderstoof me a little
    I don't want the FE2 ships in Phoenix, i have quite enough own ships now.
    I know that it would be n problem, but well i decided myself not to have he in phoenix, nothing except the game itself should remind of FE2 or FFE

    Certainly i will make a "FFE complete mod", but it has absolutely no priority
    the FFE mod wil change all to FE2 / FFE as far as possible, but it will be a mod, that's what they are for
    like i.e a starwars mod or whatever theme

    such mods will change most not only the ships and to make it really good i will have to change some vital things in pioneer, because and planned such long ago,
    to have a nice SW mod, Sol can't be the default location for Pioneer, it has to be modifieable.
    this would make it possible to recreate the SW "galaxy", a least the systems we know from the movies.
    it would also open the possibility to create a fantasy environment, with i.e. animal like spaceships.

    of course this won't change the gameplay but i think it would be a nice feature ot make it possible to recreate any sci-fi environment.
    from perry rhodan to star-wars, or even a trek mod is to imagine or f you ike a sace ranger mod containing only tailsitters
    it won't be perfect and it will be still pioneer but i guess pioneer is the sole project which can open this door.

    but it's a long way to get there and a FE2 mod is easiest to made or i can say i have this ready, i made aleady some FE2 modsafter my ships was removed from pioneer.
    i' not longer angry about that, a little maybe i still don'tunderstand why the other ships had to leave to, while a obviousely ELITE franchise like the Lave system could stay, but i don't mind much anymore. and it's not oly leaned on elite, lave is a straight copy of it (except for the location). imho this is far more a violating of copyrights as my ships was. but i'm not brianetta and i can't make myself look as i would be a god or something.

    "wenn eins und eins dasselbe tun so ist das noch lange nicht das gleiche" we say
    and it means if one and another do the same thing it doesn't mean that it's equal.
    which should mean some poeple have always right even if they do wrong.

    such is our world, no one has to tell me this, poor dudes like me know this too well.

    but hey i have cool friends, here and in real life, not many but trustworthy and this counts really.
    just guess of phil the hooligan he will nail anybody unsharpened in the ground who will harm me.
    and with such a friend you can go midst through hell and you won't loose a single hair.

    it's caused by his unpleasant youth he had, he lost his mother very early and his daddy as well, they put him in a orphanage and it was not for his good.
    i remind him of his dad, except that i'm no body-builder, but he was deep into electronics of which he "nothing understands".
    often he let's me feel that he thinks he's stupid but this guy has more aspic as many who think that they have a lot of it.
    he's lost, but no looser, nonetheless he drowns it all in beer.
    ah, it's not easy to be intelligent and if you are and if you ar a proletarian then it's really hard,
    most of them drown their problems in alcohol, thinking isn't good it makes you feel bad thus you drink until you stop to think.

  • [quote]thus i suspect it wasn't his graphic card or a opengl error (how could that be opengl is if you use the same version 100% the same on every windows driven machine) it was this wrong behave of the blobs)..[/quote]
    Because that isn't how OpenGL works. Each vendor (GPU maker) writes their own implementation of the specification - aka: the driver.
    These drivers have bugs, optimisations, clever code and neat tricks to achieve better performance and newer drivers often break older features because there are too many combinations to check.

    So when we get a bug and say: "Please try the latest driver", it's not that we think it's YOUR fault, it's just that it's the most common cause of problems AND the most common fix for the problems :)

    There have been problems with the sprite size rendering, that is my fault, some older drivers (5+ years old) especially have trouble. SO should everyone else miss out on better performance because someone won't/can't update their drivers? It's not fair on everyone else.

  • edited April 26

    do i have to excuse me for my hard head?

    SO should everyone else miss out on better performance because someone won't/can't update their drivers? It's not fair on everyone else.


    (i have to add here maybe that couple of years ago when i still ran a win7x64 i never encountered problems with updated drivers, especially graphics and sound, while under XP it was in the end always the driver that was once shipped with the hardware which worked best and usually the problems start with updates, and i can say i have experience with XP, if ilike it or not. i dindn't ike it and i have to do my worst to get to a better machine)

    i should shut my goddamn mouth, anyway that's past i didn't wanted to be confronted with it again, that's why i made this long pause (too).

    the best i can do from ward is really to go back as much as possible (to me) in pioneer releases and more and more i'm sure i will restart with the oldest release i obtain a source of.
    i will lose a lot of features due to that but i really looks to me as the best option, also that i can keep calm.
    but foremost it is if i really like to work on it then it should be as slim as possible, i'm just a single person,
    if i miss the simplicity it had once then i should return to this simplicity.

    it's not my business to mind about what changed later and if that is good or not.

    and what i like to do most and do best this i can use as well in alpha9 release (even if i would go pre-alpha, but unfortunately i obtain no source of such a release, resp. no longer)

    this is no "i guess" or i "feel"

    on the other hand, it's nice to see that my posts get read by someone :)

  • a strange guest

  • I just tried to run Phoenix. When I try to open it I get the message "An error occurred when opening this archive". Phoenix0.0.1_Pioneer31.7z is 133.8 kB in size. It's too small, obviously. I don't have an idea about what's wrong. I'm running Linux if that's a help.

  • i would try it a second time :)

    i downloaded the file as guest and the download broke the first time, but second time it was ok (complete new download, continuing a failed download often doesn't works).

    alternatively i uloaded it new to both file clouds

    dropbox: Phoenix0.0.2_Pioneer31.7z

    onedrive: Phoenix0.0.2_Pioneer31.7z

  • a couple of new typical lmr ships, all except one have a similar basic shape.

    to give th ship a name and not to use "Cobra" isn't always easy

    Draco (looks like a kite)

    move a few vectors, size it down and you get a


  • I like those ships! Both of the links worked. Phoenix is looking good. I got Petra @ London in a cool enclosed hangar and saved it. We'll go for a flight tomorrow.

  • Firefly
    a somewhat different design

    small fighter in a a similar design as the first two

    the station is slowly growing

    hmm... i didn't pressed "post comment"

  • looks lie i disabled the "aurogenerate faction" (factions\00_AutoGenerate.lua_), just remove the underscore to enable them
    they need quite a time to be generated cause they are spread widely and 160 is a large amount but i recognized more factions close to the core systems if i use i higher amount, however many small factions (totalitarian regimes) is better. they are recently very small and can be sized to your choice if you like them a little larger (more systems as only 1 to ~5)
    that's in the respective script (00_AutoGenerate.lua)

    -- minimum and maxium expansion rate
    local min_expansion = 0.05
    local max_expansion = 0.1

    if you set a higher expansion rate the systems will be larger.

  • Petra just took her first flight. It's nice to see the other planets in the system. I miss that. I was surprised to see London in daylight at midnight GMT. She's going to have to do a lot of grinding to equip her ship. She inherited that Rapier and quit her job at the fish cannery to take a package delivery to Paris. She flew as a newbie in the atmosphere at 500 m/s, so she's not an astronaut yet. I found the keyboard to be sluggish and am getting 5/6 fps regardless of detail settings. I'm running this on Linux and may be able to improve this with some adjustments to WINE. I saw that Firefly in the shipyard. I want one! You're making some nice looking ships! Anyway, she landed at that Sydney Opera House station and cleared 19 credits.
    Oh, and I like the music!

  • edited May 6

    that sounds likwise if i'm running pioneer on the macbook ( < 10 fps ), (under wine or as osx app).
    i guess you need to make many deliveries to buy a Firefly ;)

    i got a little more fps on my old windows but i know it needs improvements from my side to, (while i feel it din't makes no big difference, i can' leave away such things lke the random adverts and didn't gain a lot of speed, what cost's most is still the postprocessing)

    for me it helps a lot to make it run more stable if i disable the music (sad).

    i know you like the old raves, but i like as much or even better i like classical tunes especially in a game like pioneer.
    i found some classsical music in the archive and i wonder if this is ok to use them in pioneer, since they ae pubished as PD.


    i have a (quite) large collection of classical music mostly baroque this compilation adds a lot uf music (or excerpts of concerts/operas) i missed.

    let Flash Gordon (silly or not) enter the hall,
    Liszt, Les Preludes

    the definitive naval theme, any boatlike vessel game movie whatever will use this
    Wagner, Ride of the Valkyries

    i guess this is even used in the old b/w flash gordon series and many other movies and tv plays as well,
    Suppe, Light Cavalry Overture

    this one has been used in countless cartoons,
    J.Strauss II, Tritsch Tratsch Polka

    another which has been used for movies, mostly excerpts from it, it's a very dynamic piece and ranges from silent to dramatic
    Offenbach, Orpheus in the Underworld

    this well known piece i use as opener (directory "intro"):
    R. Strauss "Also sprach Zarathustra", Fanfare

    wagner is always good for ( a Gernot? grin, it's a "wagnerian" name) something dramatic,
    Wagner, Siegfried's Death and Funeral March, from 'Twilight of the Gods'

    as long as the danube is blue
    J. Strauss II, The Blue Danube - Waltz

    anytime when it's morning you will hear this tune
    Grieg, Morning - from 'Peer Gynt'

    cartoon characters usually fall immediatly asleep when they hear this tune,
    Brahms, Cradle Song

    one of my personal favorites and i had ths tune already in pioneer and some other games
    Smetana, The Moldau

    finally another hit (really a hit if you guess how often this is used)
    Tchaikovsky, Piano Concerto No.1 in B flat minor - 1st movement (excerpt)

    there is more and more which fits from my ward well to pioneer

    a strange issue (this is prob. only valid fro lmr models), when i zoom a ship out in the modelviewer until it vanishes and zoom back close to it i gain almst a doubling of the framerate in the modelviewer, i think that's strange, why don't i have this extra fps rightaway? sometimes it helps also to lower and retract the landing gear, when it's retracted the framerate will be higher as at start when it's even retracted, sometimes a switching from collision mesh view to rendered does the same.
    (besides when you set "sync to refresh rate" in your graphics card setup the framerate will be always 60fps as long as it's higher as 60fps).

    the only real good solution will be to release a build and you can compile the tard on your linux machine.

  • since i also have a low performance on my rotten old computer i tested what helps me most.

    most helps the resolution, if i use a very low resolution of 640x480 the framerate is quite good no matter how high i set the details in the game

    if planet detail distance is high it will ake a long time to render the terrain, but else it has no big influence on the performance
    fractal detail influences performance equally as much as city detail level does, but it makes no sense to set a high fractal detail if the detail distance is low,

    disabling shaders will boost the framerate at any resolution but looks shitty, it would be acceptable with special made models for this.
    buildings without "base plates" and glowmaps must be raplaced with glowing materials where possible.

    for my use a rather low resolution of 800x600 works fine if i run in fullscreen mode (a window will be quite small in this size)

    under wine i expect that a low resolution and disabling shaders is unavoidable.

    if i play it in my screens resolution (1680x1050) with enabled shaders i get a framerate < 10fps
    if i use 640x480 as res., disable shaders and set all details to low it runs at ~80fps

  • I listen to Classical music a lot. This is a nice collection. Thank you! I have a rather large music collection. It was over 29 days of music. Just short of a month. Adding this collection put it over 30 days, so I can now say that I have a month's worth of music! :smiley:
    I just upgraded my operating system so I haven't played Phoenix for a couple of days. I still have to install WINE.

  • ok.
    if you like to tinker with the new stuff i thought this might be helpful,
    as i said i wrote a "couple" of helper functions and here is the exlanation to the new (and old) functions
    a similar document i will write to explain the purpose and use of the sub-models i created.

    GERNOT'S LMR FUNCTION REFERENCE ("basic functions" and some submodels to)
    revision 1, 05-10-2017

    valid for all functions:
    if a function uses a variable such as "time" or "anmation position"
    or needs to call a "ship state", it can only be used in the dynamic section of a model
    (i.e. nav_lights).
    functions with fixed values can be used in the static section (i.e. interpolate).

    math.clamp = function(v, min, max)
    clamps "min." to "max." referring to "v"
    math.clamp( driver, 0.2, 0.7)
    will clamp "driver" (animation position) from 0.2 to 0.7 and return 0.0 to 0.5

    cuboid(pos, size)
    creates a cuboid starting at "pos" with the dimensions of "size"
    creates a cuboid starting at corner v(0,0,0) with the dimensions x=2, y=0.5, z=1
    if you use negative values the cuboid will have a inverted surface

    joined_patch(p, edge, pts)
    i'm not experienced with this function

    vlerp(t, v1, v2)
    interpolates "vector1" with "vector2" by factor "t" (0.0 - 1.0), usually time or a animation pos.
    with a fixed "t" you can interpolate vectors to create a new vector, e.g. "slide a vector on a plane".
    vlerp( 0.5, v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0)
    will return v(0.5,0,0)

    lerp_materials(a, m1, m2)
    interpolates two materials by factor "a" (0.0 - 1.0), usually time (but any "driver" is possible)
    the same as vlerp only that it blends two materials by a factor
    set_material( 'material', lerp_materials( get_time(),
    {0,0,0,.3, 0,0,0,0, 1.5,0,.5},
    {0,0,0,.99, 0,0,0,0, .5,2.5,0}

    counts in steppings from 1 to 10, "spd" controls the stepping rate (speed)
    if "spd" isn't set it defaults to seconds

    converts degrees to radiants
    the C function "deg2rad" was once disabled, that's why i replaced it wth this.

    mirx(vector), miry(vector), mirz(vector)
    mirrors input vectors x, y, or z
    mirx( v( 2.5, 0, 0 ) ) will return v( -2.5, 0, 0 )
    useful in vector lists or otherwise to quickly mirror a vector
    vectors of a quad,
    v0 = v( -0.5, -0.5, 0 )
    v1 = mirx( v0 )
    v2 = miry( v1 )
    v3 = miry( v0 )

    interpolates two vectors,
    interpolate( v( 2, 1, 3 ), v( 4, 2, 1 ) )
    returns v( 3, 1.5, 2 )

    vlerp( v( 0.5, v( 2, 1, 3 ), v( 4, 2, 1 ) ), does the same, nonetheless i use it sometimes

    creates standard navigation lights, ths function is replaced by "pos_lights", but left for compatibility
    they are both similar. "nav_lights" i don't use anymore.
    size = size of the "light"
    "red", "green", "coll1", "coll2", "steady", are the position vectors of the respective "light"
    with this function you can specify all lights at once.
    nav_lights( 2, v( -10, 0, 0 ), v( 10, 0, 0, ), v( 0, 3, 10 ), v( 0, -1, -10 ), 1)
    will produce a red navlight at pos v(-10,0,0), a green at v(10,0,0), a white at v(0,3,10)
    and a white at v(0,-1,-10).
    the last value is a boolean and if specified "coll2" won't be flashing to use as a headlight i.e.
    if nothing is specified (returns "nil") then it's assumed it's flashing

    missile(index, position, v_right, v_up, scale, missile_pod)
    calls missile dummy-models to be playced on the ships, if a missile is fired the model will be removed.
    index = index 1 to 8 (8 visible missiles, the max. is 16 but only 8 are shown)
    position = position of the missile
    v_right = horizontal orientation (to orient a missile)
    v_up = vertical orientation (to decide if placed under or on top of the ship
    also to place a missile upright if ever needed)
    scale = this didn't scales the missile, it's ment to keep the missile scaled ordinally
    and requests the final model scale, which is defined in the info section of a model.
    missile_pod = boolean (any glyph or none), if true the missile will have a mounting else not.
    missile(1, v( 12, -3, 5 ), v( 1, 0, 0), v(0, -1, 0), model_scale, yes)
    will place missile 1 (of 8) at v(12,-3,5) oriented forward v(1,0,0)
    and rotated to be used under the ship v(0,-1,0), the scale is kept 1:1 with "model_scale"
    and "yes" means i like o have a mounting for the missile
    missiles and mountings will be reposiioned automatically if you specify a mounting
    (top of the mounting will be your entered position, else it's he centre of the missile)

    translates a model for you, very useful because you don't have to mess with "math.clamp"
    "vlerp" and the correctional values you need.
    name = models name which is to translate
    v1 = start vector (from)
    v2 = end vector (to)
    vx = horizontal orientation of the model
    vy = vertical orientation of the model
    scale = obviousely the scale of the model
    delay = delay of "animation position" (0.0 - 1.0) when the animation has to start, i.e. 0.333
    offset = offset of "anmation position" (0.0 - 1.0) when the animation has to end i.e. 0.666
    input = the "driver" which is to use, if nothing is specied it deaults to "WHEEL_STATE".
    translate('piston1', v( 0, 0, 0 ), v( 0, -5, 0 ), v( 1, 0, 0 ), v( 0, 1, 0 ), 1, 0.0, 0.333)
    will translate model "piston1" from v(0,0,0) to v(0,-5,0), with orientation "upright", scale 1
    and clamp the animation from timepoint 0.0 to 0.333
    driven by default "wheel_state" animation position.

    rotates a model for you, very useful because you don't have to mess with "math.clamp"
    "vlerp" and the correctional values you need as well with "math.sin/cos" or "deg_to_rad",
    you just enter the desired degrees to rotate in the given timespan.
    name = models name which is to translate
    pos = position of the model
    v_x = horizontal orientation of the model
    v_y = vertical orientation of the model
    scale = obviousely the scale of the model
    degr = degrees to rotate
    v_rot = axis over which is to rotate positve values is clockwise rotation, negative is ccw.
    delay = delay of "animation position" (0.0 - 1.0) when the animation has to start, i.e. 0.333
    offset = offset of "anmation position" (0.0 - 1.0) when the animation has to end i.e. 0.666
    input = the "driver" which is to use, if nothing is specied it deaults to "WHEEL_STATE".
    rot_gear('rig', v( 0, 0, 0 ), v(1, 0, 0 ), v( 0, 1, 0 ), 1.0, 90, v( 1, 0, 0) 0.333. 1.0)
    rotates model "rig" at position v(0,0,0) , oriented "upright", size 1, with rotation 90°,
    clockwise over x axis, start at 0.333, end at 1.0, driver is default (not specified).
    all correctional values should be calculated proper, though you only have to position and orient the model proper.

    rot_clock(vector, fractions)
    returns rotation values to rotate a model stepped in whole seconds, i.e. for a clock.
    with fractions you can lower or raise the speed if needed, if not specified SECONDS are assumed
    you have to use this in a models call,
    local v_rot = rot_clock( v( 1, 0, 0 ), 60 )
    call_model('clockhand_minute', v( 0, 0, 0 ), v( 1, 0, 0 ), v_rot, 1.0)
    will rotate "clockhand_minute" over x axis in minutes stepping (stepped! not continously).

    selector(grp,offset) (note this function has changed compared to my release)
    random selector function, recently it uses the random materials as seed since the label has been removed from the ships preview
    grp = group number of 4 groups
    offset = randomize 1 to amount of offset, if not specified 1000 is assumed
    will use selector group 2 and randomize between 1 and 8

    selects randomly 1 of 5 colors to use for decals, dresses or similar
    self = this function needs no arguments

    autoscales a text string though it will use only a given space disregarding (resp. regarding) the length of the string.
    size = text scale, usually the same scale you use for a label if you use this for a ship,
    else the scale which fits i.e. to the 7 letters of "Pioneer" to use the space you got for the label / text to create.
    offset = the "default" string length, if you use 7 it will use exactly the space you need for 7 glyphs i.e. in "Pioneer",
    if you raise this value it will clamp the scale to this amount of glyphs in the given scale.
    autoscale_text(4, 10, 'that's really cool')
    will scale the string "that's really cool" as if it would be only 10 letters long in the size of 4.

    that is really cool! :)

    generates a random shipname (have phun)
    self = this function needs no arguments
    returns i.e. following string "FUNNY SAUCER"

    selects a predefinied material by it's name from a table
    name = material name (refere to "functions.lua" for the recent material names)
    will return "set_material('steel',.25,.28,.3,1,1,1.3,1.5,30,0,0,0)
    don't forget to register the material in the models info section.

    a set of engine glow materials
    they all "turn off" if a ship is docked or landed rough, thus they may only be used dynamic
    returns a semitransarent engine glow material
    returns a solid engine glow material

    engine glow materials which changes the color depending on the drivetype (common "sky blue" ,military "acid green")
    returns a semitransarent engine glow material
    returns a solid engine glow material

    this is the new positionlights or navlights function, this function you have to use for each position seperate.
    therefore it has greater flexbility as "nav_lights" and upscales the light in lower lod's thus it's still visible when the ship is far away.
    typ = 'right', 'left', 'green', 'red', 'centre'
    positon = position of the "poslight"
    scale = size of he poslight
    lod = lod, just enter "lod" if you call the function, it will take the recently used lod of the model it's used in to upscale the light.
    it's not perfect but still better as if the navlights vanish already at lod 3.
    poslights('green',v( 24, 0, 5 ), 2, lod)
    creates a green flashing position light at v(24,0,5) in scale 2 and uses the recent lod to upscale the light.

    this function simply returns the two animation drivers needed for spacestations
    to use in the dynamic section f a spacestation model, if called once you can use the variables in your models animation like,
    local driver1
    if stage_bay1 == 1 then
    driver1 = pos_bay1

    stationlights = function(pos,size,color,model_scale)
    small function, many arguments,it does not much as only to position a light for you which else can be done as well
    pos = position
    size = size of light
    color = color of light as vector (v(1,1,1) for white)
    model_scale = final model scale from the models info section to keep the light in scale 1:1
    stationlights( v( 0, 0, 0 ), 40, v( 1, 0.8, 0 ), model_scale)

  • edited May 10

    it starts all with a sketch

    i can't decide which one looks better, two on top? on bottom? or four? (missile pylons or whatever it should be, "nose" if you like)

    i started with this, two pylons on bottom

    but then i felt it mybe looks better if they are placed on top, it will give the ship a face
    and it has a face, but a funny one

    next i thought "maybe t's best to use all four"

    but neither i'm satisfied with this. recently by looking at all three pictures i decide for the first one which was my intention at start.
    to me it looks most agressive, the second is to friendly and looks a bit like a frog and the third has stil this friendly appearance due to the pylons on top.

    while it's not bad and the whole thing looks anyway like a submarine, thus the four pylons look like four torpedo pylons.

    but who ever reads this is allowed to comment, i wonder what you guess which one looks better.

    intentionally also i had the idea to make a promenade deck in the front mid section of the ship regardless that such will boost the polycount immense
    wherefore i kept it the bezier shapes as low as possible, but if once textured you won't notice the bended quads, which are anyway always bended for a bezier shape
    of course it gets smoother with more iterations but with so many bezier shapes you double and quadruple the polycount easy when you use more divisions.
    of course it's o perfect, i can't pre-calculate such a curve, thus i have to work with a sketch and tweak the shape until i'm satisfied.
    due to this it's also sectioned into three parts, it was ment to jin front and rear directly, this wil work for sure, but leaves a ugly seam,
    thus i decided to "cover" the seam with a real seam, the mid section, it has a further advantage, i have now something planar where i can mount the landing gear.

    as you can see by the front flaps, if i place the undecariage in a bezier shape i can't use rotating flaps, first i's exremly complicated to counter resp. prerotate the part to the
    angle(s) or rotate and correct rotation in one process, if that is done the bowed flap will still look stupid when it opens, because it's then only joined at one point.

    the "wrinkles" in the shapes are caused by this

    could avoid this if i respect this manner, as you can see are the triangles in a bezier shape always in the same winding order which leads to the fact that 2 corners are always "wrong",
    when the edge doesn't leads to the corner the quad will "flap in" and this produces heavy wrinkles especially if you use only one shape.
    this could be avoided if i would split i.e. the engine covering which is made from a single shape, into four shapes and for two i had to change the starting point though
    the edges will show to the other side, but apart from that this will use a couple of polygons more it will quadruple my effort to make one shape.
    also it will leave a small seam between the sections.

  • (nachtrag)

    also i haven't found out how to normalize such like Tom did for his "sirius interdictor", this is something i missed to aks him and neither the bezier shapes and
    especially the ":normalize()" or "unitv" (instead "v") function is explained
    when i tried to use them the result was never what i expected (i even didn't know exactly what to expect).
    and only by looking at the "interdictor" or "ladybird" i can't figure this out right.

    these aren't the only "hidden" functions, some have ben never explained in the LMR reference, that's sad

    FEIERABEND (closing time)

  • Petra just flew to M. Gorbachev. It's an interesting station, a good ELITE substitute. I noticed that it's small and rotating fast. Have you worked out the gravity math for it? It looks right. I found the radio advertisements annoying during the flight. I like them, but I think they should only be played while the player is docked. It would add a department store ambiance to the stations.

  • no i haven't worked out the math for it, i lked to and was close about to...

    (that's why i posted the picture of the spacestation sketch)
    but then i recognized that i have no idea if the the value for the angular velocity is reliable in pioneer, i think so
    second it's quite hard to find this formula for angular velocity to centrifugal force, usually it's needed in medicinal technics to calculate the virtual gravity for a centrifuge
    but there is the question "how many rpm do i need for 1G" and not the angular velocity.
    for this use you find calculators in the web: enter radius, rpm or desired G - receive G's or rpm
    thus i simply asumed that a small (relativey, it's quite bigger as hoop and offers space for a max of 4 bays) station will rotate quite faster as a big wheel to reach 1G at the outer radius.
    besides i have problem ith the animation and a sation stays occupied or you can't dock even if you have permission if one bay is occupied.
    i have to find this error first.

    yep, the adverises could be limited to be selected donly when docked

    probably when you reach a city with a micro spaceport the game will hang, i recognized that i missed to change the name for a submodel
    and the one it calls now is reserved for ships, but probably this isn't relevant this change is new.

    if that's the case nonetheless (to test this, "lunar city" on moon will have such a small spaceport),
    the change would be in "singleort.lua" to rename the call for the model "scanner" to "scanner_sub".

    meanwhile i worked on my models and added for many a cockpit
    also i disregarded my own rule not to use wavefront objects and used my wavefront pilots instead of the scripted one, a new scripted version must be made won't have a gender maybe neither a head just a helmet - i will see, it will be as simple as possible for this small object.

    further i scripted a handful of functions to use in the models script resp. to make it a little more comfortable.
    the reason was, first i needed repetively useable objects for my cockpits
    because the cockpits are locally lit, if you load a model it won't receive the local light only a geomery in a actual function (model) will receive the local lighting
    second i liked to scale the objects in all extensions seperately and this isn't possible with a model
    third i liked to get experienced and still need more experience for a texture mapper function
    the recent tiles are mapped a texture from a given projection plane and scale and position the texture according to the dimensions and the position of the tile.
    thus the texture will always fit no matter what dimension or position (it still has errors, that's hard to calculate).
    with the results from this mappings of my various tiles i should be able to create such a texture mapper, the calculation is always the same
    the rule changes a for each plane that's what makes it so complicated, but if you draw two cubes and imagne that you rotate and translate the mesh
    on the texture and not vice versa you get it why this has to change and how it changes, still it's a mindfucker
    3 dimensions

    however i completed a new ship

    we need definately another unuseable ship, that's why i made the "Shuttle", i's the most ugly ship in the whole galaxy.
    it's designed only by purpose and this is to carry goods or people from A to B, a Shuttle, like the name tells.
    it has the weakest thrust in the game, but makes as first of my ships use of the difference from capacity to cargo
    you can have much more capacity as cargo, this allows you to mount in a ship more tons for cabins as you can carry cargo tons
    while it still leaves some cargo for equipment and fuel, the shuttle makes use of this and has incredible 16 cabins capacity but only 50 tons of cargo load.
    you can see the cabins (almost) they are rather small and certainly uncomfortable.
    it's not ment to have a hyperdrive, but i guess it can be mounted (if not i will enable it), anyway it comes without drive and costs "nothing".
    when you mounted all 16 cabins you still have 10 tons for cargo left

    in general my ships are weaker and recently i changed the calculation for the trust from the use of "tara" to "brutto", however i feel i can keep them
    in ths way closer to a almost realistic value. empty the ships will have a quite good thrust but aship will never be empty
    transporters with a high capacity must be kept very low when fully ladden else the are faster as a fighter when near to empty.
    however i decide i always have to keep a eye on how it will be in the other state, tara or brutto.
    but this could also mean i have to change certain scripts because the medium endurance for a mission will be longer with less powerful ships
    also you will use much more fuel with a low specified engine.

  • edited May 20

    the "flying breadbox" if i look at the shape of the ship now
    a space cookie box?

    it makes use of most new created functions (tiles)

    and marcels "big screen" which hasn't to be so big

    a view inside the "Badger"

    and finally if you are "bored of the repetive cargo runs"
    you can go to the arcade hall

    and play a classic space shooter

    of course the tiles make most sense in a locally lit area/room
    but since they are free scalable in all dimensions one can use them anywhere
    the windows as example are "hooked" on the lower left corner if they face +z/-z, that's to take a near vector as base for the window position

    the side facing version +x/-x orientet, is "hooked" even on the lower left corner to be used in a simple way with a for loop if one likes to place them repetively on a building i.e.

    the top facing y oriented version is "hooked" in middle ofthe geometry, which makes most sense for this rare use

    the "inlet_quad" function works in the same manner, a botom or top inlet you will position referring t the centre of x and z
    while a side or frontfacing geometry is best centered at a side to refere to a vector close to the desired position, if the side turns and the position is wrong you simply can add/substract it's own length/width

    the functions work a little uncommon compared to a model call, they will receive position vector and a orientation vector
    but this orientation vector is very simple and rotations aren't possible, it determines only on which side a geometry has to face
    if a value is wrong or empty the function will simply fail or show the wrong state because maybe "1" at "x" is present - mostly,
    with exception of the texture and zbias values which can be left away
    there are even exceptional unlogical behaves because "v_orient" i used i different manner for the tiles
    i.e. the free texturable "inlet_cube" won't flip the plane with the orientation vector, in this case it's used to rotate the texture by 90° to cover this case
    if the geometry has to be flipped it has to be done with the dimensions, the gometry is a cuboid function and works exactly in this manner.
    the proper normals for the cutout are determined by z if it's + or -

    besides this is another exceptional rule for the tiles, the dimensions are always as if it would be facing to you, this means z stays z no matter how the tile is oriented
    also the tiles have a given basic dimension by the ment use of them, i.e. a window or inlet is z always 1/10, it makes sense for this shape.
    computer, console and locker are also in a useful size and only have to be "shaped".

  • recent state of the ships which have a cockpit now

  • recent state of the ships which have a cockpit now

    the only help i see for the erformance issue you have under wine to use a linux build
    the source or alpha31 is still available
    another possibility is as long as i don't work on the source to simply take a old alpha 31 linux build,
    i haven't found any old releases in the web, but maybe someone can help you out.

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