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  • #58136

    m4r35n357
    Member

    Hi All,

    I used to play Frontier on the Atari ST, and I’m pretty sure I got the hang of combat in those days . . . it was a very long time ago! Although it was a bit of a revelation after Elite, I don’t remember it being this difficult. Is the combat system still being tuned, or does anyone have any control hints (using a joystick ATM, yes I’m even worse with the keyboard).

    When I say difficult, I mean difficult to keep the buggers on screen, never mind target or fire at them. I suppose physically the problem is down to inertia, which causes both delay and overshoot.

    Thing is, I don’t really know what I think should be happening, is it due to the way the joystick is driven (on/off or proportional) or is there some meaningful “control system” which could be implemented to compensate (possibly as ship equipment) and add some damping perhaps? Or am I just rubbish? 😉

    Eager to hear from others on this!

    Regards,

    Ian.

    #77510

    Gudadantza
    Member

    Combat AI is being worked, perhaps the combat mechanicals will be changed as well in some way.

    Greetings

    #77511

    shenle
    Member
    m4r35n357 wrote:
    Or am I just rubbish? 😉

    The truth is out! :mrgreen: j/k

    No, in my view the truth is: you come to Pioneer and expect to find Frontier. It’s not. It may look superficially the same, but the mechanics are different. Time to start climbing the learning curve again. 🙂

    Also, keep in mind that this is alpha software. It’s by no means done. The first version with joystick support was just released less than 24h ago. It’s still being polished, tuned and adapted. Post your feedback here, for the devs to know their user’s opinions.

    #77512

    s2odan
    Member

    Shenle is correct, it has differences.

    Here’s how I generally fight in Pioneer, adapt it to your own use if you like:

    * In combat, immediately click on your target, giving you a combat target.

    * Now with speed control engaged, your ship will automatically keep your speed relative to the other ship.

    * Keep your set-speed low.

    * Because you set your speed to be relative to the other ship, when the enemy accelerates, your ship will too.

    * To follow directly behind an enemy, set your speed to 0 or just above.

    * Following behind an enemy requires either a fast ship or skill.

    * An enemy in a fast ship will always out-accelerate you in your slow ship, don’t play their game, unload mass amounts of coloured blob at them as they approach on the general vector. With a good aim, they won’t know what hit them 😉

    #77513

    Gudadantza
    Member
    s2odan wrote:
    Shenle is correct, it has differences.

    Here’s how I generally fight in Pioneer, adapt it to your own use if you like:

    * In combat, immediately click on your target, giving you a combat target.

    * Now with speed control engaged, your ship will automatically keep your speed relative to the other ship.

    * Keep your set-speed low.

    * Because you set your speed to be relative to the other ship, when the enemy accelerates, your ship will too.

    * To follow directly behind an enemy, set your speed to 0 or just above.

    * Following behind an enemy requires either a fast ship or skill.

    * An enemy in a fast ship will always out-accelerate you in your slow ship, don’t play their game, unload mass amounts of coloured blob at them as they approach on the general vector. With a good aim, they won’t know what hit them 😉

    stay close and pursuing the enemy is very hard to me.

    In combat the Joystick will be really useful.

    #77514

    Gudadantza
    Member

    Should be a good idea a free combat game mode in main menu, were you combat just for practising.

    #77515

    s2odan
    Member

    Ctrl + F12 while flying 😉

    Press it many times for fun.

    #77516

    Gudadantza
    Member
    s2odan wrote:
    Ctrl + F12 while flying 😉

    Press it many times for fun.

    Oh.

    Add a ship option. of course! 🙂

    #77517

    Gudadantza
    Member

    In future stages of the game that shortcuts could be great additions in the interface.

    control+F10 could be a good scanner if limited a bit, now is an useful visual cheat/debugger.

    And control+12 added as a game mode ala wing commander free combat mode 🙂

    #77518

    m4r35n357
    Member

    Thanks for the suggestions, I was trying to use manual control for some reason. I’m intrigued by the idea of automatic mode (as it happens I thought of this but didn’t follow up properly as I assumed the pirates were following me!), as long as it doesn’t end up with us just creating a new tiny binary system 😉

    The “add ship” is good too as the delay of restarting, hyperjumping & hoping was not working out very well either.

    BTW I had the joystick code for a while from git, so I did spend a fair bit of time trying out combat, but I’ll mess around some more using the new information, thanks again all!

    Ian.

    #77519

    m4r35n357
    Member

    Hehe that is MUCH better thanks, nice little congratulatory message in stdout 😉 I’m now a bit confused about automatic mode, which reports speed rather than velocity, does it actually distinguish at all between + and – ? What I mean is, when I launch it appears to report the speed away from the reference, but eg. on landing it seems as if it is just as happy to report it as positive when I approach the ref. Or does it just settle on any direction as long as the magnitude is right?

    To confuse me further, it seems that the automatic mode speed can be set to negative, I will have to experiment further . . .

    Ian.

    #77520

    UncleBob
    Member
    Quote:
    I’m now a bit confused about automatic mode, which reports speed rather than velocity, does it actually distinguish at all between + and – ?

    As far as I know, automatic mode shows you the velocity you SET (i.e. that you’d like to have relative to the target and your heading), not the velocity you actually have.

    #77521

    m4r35n357
    Member

    Thanks UncleBob, I am aware of the difference between what I set and what I get 😉 I’m making a technical point when I use the words speed, magnitude and velocity; speed is not a very precise term in this context.

    eg, if I set a relative speed of 1m/s between me and a foe, I could be closing at 1 m/s, receding at 1 m/s, or going off at right angles at 1 m/s. Or anything in between – all of these represent the same relative speed.

    I shall experiment further.

    #77522

    m4r35n357
    Member

    Sorry to answer my own post, but I just wanted to check. I assume the relative speed represents the magnitude of my relative velocity to an object in the direction in which I am currently travelling.

    Seems obvious in hindsight, but in combat things are a little tricky 😉

    The latest culprit was a speedy little ****, I set a relative speed of 1 m/s, and watched as my actual speed fluctuated between +-500 m/s !!!!!!

    I guess there are some situations where fighting is impossible . . .

    #77523

    m4r35n357
    Member

    Now that is MUCH better 😉 Here’s the basic recipe I am using ATM:

    1. Lock on (v. important!)

    2. set auto speed mode

    3. close in at around 100 m/s

    4. decelerate to 0 m/s at about 500m from target

    5. hang on

    6. shoot!

    The spawn ship feature is great, got some good practice in now! I will try the new AI stuff in a mo . . . I should really be doing something more productive ATM 😉

    Ian.

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