Home Forums Space and SciFi MMO and Multi-Player Only Discussion Elite: Dangerous Elite Dangerous won't have offline mode

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  • #60765

    sscadmin
    Member

    I read this last night and was like WTF, why would they do that? You can still have a online dynamic world to play in and also give solo players that don’t care about that their version too. With E:D now stating that is will need a online connection to play, gamers now have a huge gripe in that the game becomes useless to the hardcore fan of the series when the servers close down. As we all know all to well that servers don’t stay around forever… yeah they could leverage private servers that could fill the gap, but that shouldn’t be the option since you still paid for a game with certain promises and expectations that you should be able to play it as intended today as well as 10, 20 or even 30 years from now with the same experience. People remember Elite because of that experience and you are taking huge part of that element away from people.

    Article: http://www.geek.com/games/elite-dangerous-drops-offline-mode-angry-backers-demand-refunds-1609609/

    Frontier Developments has made a mistake in my opinion, without the loyal fanbase E:D wouldn’t be getting made. You can probably ask the majority of people under 20 back in 2012 do they know what Elite is and have you played it you might have been hard pressed to find young players that played the original. So FD, you owe the veterans and the loyal fans this small feature to your game. Look at what Star Citizen is doing, they are creating Squadron 42 a single player experience that can played (hopefully) outside of the online only world of SC. So it is doable for FD to do this for the fans and I am sure the majority of fans would excuse any delays for this feature to occur.

    SSC members what are your thoughts on this and are you going to the extreme and asking for your money back? Do you think this bad press of this news is going to effect your game and the features that ultimately get put in?

    #105443

    Styggron
    Member

    SP offline mode was the most important factor for me and I was a strong proponent on the KS log for clarification on SP offline. This was the sole reason I backed it. This is no seret, it is in the KS comments openly.  I want to have the galaxy on my computer populated by NPCs and I don’t want anyone else in it changing stock prices, starting wars etc. I want to freeze the galaxy and come back to it. If I want to branch out trying different roles have unlimited saves, I’d like to be able to use mod tools and if I fail a mission, I’d like to load the save and try again so “rewind” the galaxy. These are all core things for me.  I would be quite happy with a less dynamic universe. My connection is poor and bandwidth minimal (as I don’t need it at all as everything I play is offline).

     

    It was a decision FD say was not taken lightly, I am sure they were not happy about this either but this is where it all is now so really there is nothing any of us can do. People can apply for refunds as stated on the forums.

     

    This is just a very very sad week for all of us SP offline people :fie: . I don’t know what else I can say.

    #105444

    Ravendarke
    Member

    This is going to hit their reputation, their profit from ED… not so much. Imho they plan ED to be their last game, then probably reform studio or something and they are just trying to milk as much as possible from ED as at they have decent momentum and this will quite effectively prevent piracy.

    #105445

    Blah64
    Member

    I think it is annoying, as it was a part of their crowd funding plan and the possibility of losing the ability to play the game once the servers shut down is a big turn off.

     

    However, I completely understand that leaving that aspect of the game out helps the devs tremendously in their ability to get a finished product out the door.  I am personally willing to accept the trade-off.  After all, there is always the possibility of them making the offline portion a lot farther down the line, before they shut off their servers. 

    #105446

    Vuzz
    Member

    when the server shutt down that simply mean that ED disapear … think it’s certainly not the future Elite4 whe’ve dream about , i thing about alls this backers too ..

     

    FD is finaly not a group of fan ? only a society to make bizeness ?  0_°

    #105447

    SerialKicked
    Member

    With an offline mode, I would have bought the game. Not anymore. At least i didn’t put any money into their project, otherwise I would have been furious.

     

    Their technical reasons are a bit flimsy too. Well, they do make sense, but that’s not exactly something you discover a few weeks before release, either they knew months ago, or they got a very bad case of tunnel vision). Also not providing the ability to run a local server instead is extremely suspicious.

    #105448

    sscadmin
    Member

    Nice video by Tim Wheatley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA-ZvZJ9fvw

    They say refunds will be done on a case-by-case basis. I read a comment from someone said that this was a feature mentioned in the kickstarter and if they don’t deliver it, it should be considered a failed kickstarter and money returned. I personally didn’t jump into the E:D kickstarter because I wanted to wait and see how Elite came out. But I tend to lean towards the people on this is that a developer should be held to their promises in a funding project. I have stated for both E:D and SC that the bar is set really high on these games and people are taking these legendary developers at their word and they are going to deliver what is promised. Yeah you may still have a ‘solo’ mode, but it is a online solo mode.

    I will use an example some people may run into, for example my wife’s family lives in the woods of southern Georgia and they only can use dial-up … yes I said dial-up or satellite is the other option. Both options are very slow and I doubt you could effectively play any space game that has twitched based combat. Lag will totally kill your gameplay experience for any online only game.

    Why is the fanbase finding out about this almost 2yrs after completion of the kickstarter.

    Plus with it being online only, what happens after the mad rush of players and the game dies down to a small subset of players from launch. What is the online population minimum that is needed to keep the servers online? Will the game become P2W? Will we start seeing ads in the game? There is downfalls to only online game experiences, it is really a shame.

    #105449

    Blah64
    Member

    I read a comment from someone said that this was a feature mentioned in the kickstarter and if they don’t deliver it, it should be considered a failed kickstarter and money returned.

    Now that is some serious entitlement problem right there.

     

    Kickstarter is completely open and honest about the fact that Kickstarter campaigns are entirely donations.  Fundraisers are not required to deliver on anything, not even to complete the game.  People know that going into the project, and to expect a donation returned because 5% of a project wasn’t exactly like their proposal is silly.  I compare that to donating money to a charity that feeds people unable to afford food, and then demanding your money back because you find out that there are still people going hungry in the world.

     

    If people are unwilling to accept the risk associated with Kickstarter projects, they should just wait ’till it is released.

    #105450

    SerialKicked
    Member

    Now that is some serious entitlement problem right there.

     

    Kickstarter is completely open and honest about the fact that Kickstarter campaigns are entirely donations.  Fundraisers are not required to deliver on anything, not even to complete the game.  People know that going into the project, and to expect a donation returned because 5% of a project wasn’t exactly like their proposal is silly.  I compare that to donating money to a charity that feeds people unable to afford food, and then demanding your money back because you find out that there are still people going hungry in the world.

     

    If people are unwilling to accept the risk associated with Kickstarter projects, they should just wait ’till it is released.

     

    This has been beaten to death, and it’s simply not true, as per Kickstarter own terms of service. Teams are required to deliver both a product and the rewards. It gets murkier when it comes to the disparity between the promise and the actual game, it’s probably something only courts can judge properly.

     

    Laws aside, If you donate to a project based on a feature list, you are indeed entitled to get those features. We are not talking about an indie guy in his garage here, but a full blown company racking 1.4M dollars in donations,  of course people are entitled to what has been promised and should get a refund if they want one. It’s not because it represents only “5%” to you that it does for everyone else (for me it is largely enough to never buy this game)

     

    (also your analogy made no sense in that context)

    #105451

    Geraldine
    Member

    I have already replied to the question of no off-line mode <here>. I still firmly believe this is a game mode Frontier ought to consider in a future update.

    #105452

    PINBACK
    Member

    Bloody annoying that they have done this and at the way it has been done as well although not the first time they have done it. if you recall the Kickstarter every one assumed that the game would be like Frontier and it took them over a month before they owned up and said that the game was going to more like Elite.

     

    Myself I tend to think this more of a DRM given that they have raised over £3.5 million from crowdfunding and Braden has been reported as saying the game has cost over £7.5 million so far. so as they said their would be no DRM during the Kickstarter, the easy way to add one without making themselves look stupid would be to drop the offline SP part of the game.

     

    Undoubtedly it’s kick in the teeth for a lot of us, but at the end of the day they probably wont loose that much in refunds but going down the online route only, will more than likely lead to a monthly subscription or some sort of microtransactions as all online games need to make money.These that don’t end and their have been lot of them over the last few years.

    #105453

    robske
    Member

    Now that is some serious entitlement problem right there.

     

    Kickstarter is completely open and honest about the fact that Kickstarter campaigns are entirely donations.  Fundraisers are not required to deliver on anything, not even to complete the game.  People know that going into the project, and to expect a donation returned because 5% of a project wasn’t exactly like their proposal is silly.  I compare that to donating money to a charity that feeds people unable to afford food, and then demanding your money back because you find out that there are still people going hungry in the world.

     

    If people are unwilling to accept the risk associated with Kickstarter projects, they should just wait ’till it is released.

     

     

    In case of European laws, kickstarter can’t just bug out of that one.

     

    http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/online-shopping/faq/index_en.htm

     

    Or better even, the specific topic which applies here:

    http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/sell-abroad/defective-products/index_en.htm

     

    If a EU citizen demands a refund, then Frontier has to refund (required by law).

     

    So, depending which laws apply to you, your statemant may be true or may be false. In my case, I can ask for a refund if i want to and they’d be legally forced to do it (or face serious issues).

    #105454

    leondhay
    Member

    I can see why people are upset over the offline aspect been dropped. And some people either cannot get a decent connection or they cannot afford the cost of a ISP. And this something promised in the Kickstarter campaign. But…

     

    The most successful MMO in our market today all firstly require you to have a internet connection. That a given. And if this is the way FD want to progress with E:D then it will need to be focused on this MMO platform.

    Also I truly believe they need to have either a subscription base set up to keep this game alive to have a successful MMO platform.

     

    BTW. Can someone clarify if SC promised offline/Solo aspect to their game in the Kickstarter campaign? Or is it focus entirely on a MMO platform?

    #105455

    Goomich
    Member

    SC was always MMO, SQ42 was single player game with multi components (ability to jump into friend’s game to help in more defficult missions and even play as enemy). Recently CIG confirmed it can be played offline, but if it going to affect beginning of SC, it will have to be played online-ish.

    Also they promised private servers for SC, but iirc, they will be severly limited compared to PU.

    #105456

    ExpandingMan
    Member

    Well, FD certainly handled this quite poorly no doubt about that.  It certainly doesn’t bode well for them to so thoroughly renege on a major fundraising campaign promise.  There also seems to have been a not insignificant amount of deception on their part.  According to their more recent statements, it had been clear for quite a while that the way they were developing the game was prohibitive to an offline mode, and they were completely mute on the subject.  The merits of the offline mode aside, what they SHOULD have done was to either construct a code base in anticipation of accommodating offline mode from the beginning, or announce that they were not going to implement it from the beginning.  It certainly looks like their failure to do so was an attempt to get more beta costumers, so this really makes FD look horribly dishonest.

     

    As to how much of a difference not having an offline mode makes, I’d have to say that for me at the moment it isn’t much.  To be clear, I’d certainly rather have it than be without, and I suspect the majority of my time will be spent playing solo for quite a while before I’m ready to try my hand at PvP.  Since there isn’t much gameplay that necessitates prolonged, uninterrupted play sessions however, it doesn’t seem it will initially make much of a difference to actual gameplay.  Of course, if they start adding content to try to encourage you to stay logged in for 6 hours at a time, we’re going to have a problem.  After all, that’s primarily why I don’t have an active EVE account right now.  The biggest frustration that will result from not having an offline mode for me will be that servers will inevitably go down for maintenance or have connectivity issues.

     

    Concerning the status of Elite 20 years from now, this is not something I’m even going to speculate about.  I’d assume that if they go offline they will release game server code.  To be honest, I really don’t know what the world and computing will look like 10 or 20 in the future, so I’m definitely not going to lose sleep over what may or may not happen to Elite Dangerous servers.

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