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  • #60783

    de5me7
    Member

    Long time no post Spacesimmers. Not played many spacesims in a while.

     

    I backed this on KS and just got access this week. Maybe i am losing it, but i cannot understand the interface to this game.

     

    I spent about an hour and a half in the tutorials.

     

    in short i cannot work out how too;

     

    land once inside the space station

     

    jump to another system. I can get the galaxy map to open but how once i have moved the cursor over another system, i set it to my target is a complete mystery (i have pressed most of the buttons on my keyboard).

     

    finally opening the sector map doesn’t appear to open anything. What it does do is lock all the controls apart from the escape key. The escape key allows me to exit the game but not free up the controls.

     

    In general i feel that the interface is worse than X3 (which didn’t have a very intuitive interface)

     

    Given they are days away from releasing this to the general public, I am somewhat worried.

     

    Also, since i don’t know. I got a shiny ship with the package i bought the game with, if i get shot down online, do i lose it? What are the consequences of being shot down in the game?

    #105604

    drkanukie
    Member

    > land once inside the space station

     

    You need to ask for landing clearance and get an assigned pad. Fly over the assigned pad to zero speed and the display changes to a landing grid use lateral thrusters to land gently on the centre of the pad left right up down use thrust to align forwards backwards. Do it slowly – you have limited time but its more then enough. There is a basic tutorial to cover this.

     

    >jump to another system. I can get the galaxy map to open but how once i have moved the cursor over another system, i set it to my target is a complete mystery (i have pressed most of the buttons on my keyboard).

     

    use the 1 key to open the contacts panel – select the system (has to be in jump range about 7LY in a basic ship) and then select the J key to jump using the Frame Shift Drive – there is a basic tutorial to cover this.

     

    > finally opening the sector map doesn’t appear to open anything. What it does do is lock all the controls apart from the escape key. The escape key allows me to exit the game but not free up the controls.

     

    bug or config issue it works fine for most people who see the star system as a linear schematic you can manipulate with the mouse. So not a general problem but you are having it which is unfortunate – suggest file a ticket for this or search forums for similar issue. 

     

    > In general i feel that the interface is worse than X3 (which didn’t have a very intuitive interface)

     

    Agree the UI is complex and takes a lot of fannying around with to use it – I’m still not that totally comfortable after several months sporadic play – what controller are you using – a multi button joystick helps –

     

    > Given they are days away from releasing this to the general public, I am somewhat worried.

     

    Its not going to be as bad a rebirth but they should have listened to the beta testers more re a lot of issues. There is also no decent documentation and the forum is a fricking nightmare to find anything in.

     

    > Also, since i don’t know. I got a shiny ship with the package i bought the game with, if i get shot down online, do i lose it? What are the consequences of being shot down in the game?

     

    You get to respawn in a basic ship unless you have insured it or have enough credits to buy it back. Doesn’t matter in Gamma/Beta as it will reset on game launch.

    #105605

    de5me7
    Member

    i have gone through the ‘basic tutorials covering this’. Most of what you say was not obviously explained in them.

     

    also pressing j just starts a high time compression style drive. It doesn’t appear to actually jump me anywheres, but perhaps thats because i cant get it to select a system.

     

    anyways thanks for the response. I’ll give this a worl. 

    #105606

    de5me7
    Member

    managed to get this stuff all working ok. I think the control lock out happened because i pressed either enter or shift which switched me to chat and thus all controls do nothing.

     

    Man this game is tedious. Is there a way of auto piloting to space stations? I over shot several times trying to frame shift speed towards a station.

     

    I then tried solo mode for a bit but my internet connection dropped for a couple of seconds so the game kicked me.

    #105607

    ExpandingMan
    Member

     

     

    In general i feel that the interface is worse than X3 (which didn’t have a very intuitive interface)

     

    I’m pretty shocked to see anybody say that.  Perhaps it takes a bit of getting used to?  The things you need to do with the UI are nowhere near as complicated as the things you need to do with X3.  There really is no ownership, beyond ships in hangars.  It seems FD is much more focused on making a trading game than an economic game (at least initially).  I mention this because I get the feeling you are thinking you are not able to access certain things that aren’t there, so I thought this might clarify things.  Now the ship fitting screen (and ships status), THAT is a part of the UI that needs a LOT of work…

     

     

     

    Is there a way of auto piloting to space stations? 

     

    There is a docking computer which auto-docks, but you need to get fairly close to the docking bay before it takes over.  The docking computer was pretty buggy in the beta, and was responsible for quite a few ship losses, so be warned, but I suspect FD has at least worked on it since then.  Also, when I last tried to use the docking computer, they still had this strange “jumping” bug, (seemed almost like a latency issue) which has since been solved, so it may be fine now.

     

    By the way, you can always re-direct power to engines to go a little faster.

    #105608

    de5me7
    Member

    speeds not the problem. It is slowing down. I tend to either decelerate way to soon and have to go back into frameshift mode to get to the station, or over shoot, have to stop turn around, re enter frame shift mode and fly back toward the station. It takes me a good 5 or 6 attempts to get it right. I wonder if i am missing something. In X3 i could select a space station, right click and select dock, go off and make a sandwich and comeback and the ship would have flown to the station and docked at it. Here i have to spend ages micromanaging my speed so i don’t over shoot by 500ls.

     

     

    Also, is there anyway of matching the velocity of enemy craft in space combat? Id rather get on their six than have to spend 15 minutes jousting with my crappy little lasers. I have quite a few issues with the dog fighting atm. I like the more realistic physics but i’m not sure i fully understand the flight model. To get a halfway decent turn circle i have to cut the engines or go into reverse then turn then reaccelerate. Sometimes the game doesn’t appear to read my pressing of the thrust key and i just sit there until i have pressed it four or five times. Any tips on combat piloting?

     

     

    With the UI, its not that stuff is missing. For starters i don’t think the tutorial ever mentioned that i had to use free look to get to the actual interface. If it did it passed across the screen before i noticed it. I was trying to work out what the hotkeys were. I did set hotkeys for things like the galaxy map but for some reason they don’t always work.  Once i had worked out that you have to free look and turn left or right i have gotten confused a few times as to whether i am supposed to do certain things in the system or galaxy map, or the contacts or navigation windows. In x3, i could basically just click on stuff, here i have to know which keys to press and which specific interface screen i need to be into get docking permission or set a navigation target. Once you know it i guess its childs play, but for such basic stuff it is surprisingly complex and the tutorials basically just tell you to do it and don’t really demonstrate how.

     

    This stuff is a bit concerning. I can see a lot of raging quitting in the post for the release date and this could permanently damage sales and thus the development cycle and life span of the game.

    #105609

    ExpandingMan
    Member

    Aaah… sorry, I completely misunderstood you.

     

    On dropping out of warp (sorry, I still insist on calling it warp):

    If you look at your throttle while in warp, you’ll see that part of it (usually about in the middle) is highlighted in blue.  While you are in warp, you should think of the exact center of the blue zone as maintaining optimal acceleration for arriving at your target.  If you push it pass the blue zone (even if you push it past the center just a little bit, depending on how fast you are going) you will tend to overshoot, because it will keep you superluminal while the target is pretty close.  To get practice at it you should keep the throttle just under the center of the blue zone at all times.  Once you start to get used to the acceleration curve, you can be a little more liberal with your use of the throttle so that you can go a little faster without overshooting targets.  Being somewhat practiced at it, I find it fairly intuitive, although I still tend to overshoot occasionally.  I personally would like it if they tweaked it so that acceleration was a little better, especially at subluminal velocities (although it may depend on the FSD you have fitted, I’m really not sure because the fitting screen is terrible and gives almost no info).

     

    On the UI:

    You don’t actually have to free look.  By default, holding shift and pressing the WASD keys navigates the UI.  You can also press QE to change tabs on the port and starboard screens.  I’m not sure what input device you’re using, but try this out first to see how it works, then remap the controls (or check what the joystick input is).  I’ve mostly been using a mouse + Logitech G13 gameboard, and I find moving back and forth to the keyboard to use the UI is quite comfortable.  So far I’ve like this setup much better than my X52, but I’m going to try out using the G13 with a throttle-less joystick.

     

    On the flight model:

    I’ll share something with you: when I first launched Elite and saw their flight model I was extremely, extremely upset.  To be clear, it is still definitely not my preference.  My favorite space sim was IWar2, so I prefer realistic physics.  (Not to mention the fact that I’d like to feel like I’m actually in a spaceship, considering that the galaxy is so beautifully real looking.)  FD likes to say things like “elevating the flight model above realism”, which I can’t help but scoff at when (in my mind at least) IWar was indisputably better, and theirs feels so damn wonky.  That said, I’ve learned to appreciate it somewhat.  I’ll never be in love with it, and I’ll probably always prefer they hadn’t done it this way, but I have learned to appreciate at least some of it’s quirkiness.  Anyway, the biggest oddity, apart from the slow yaw, which at first feels so damn strange and completely ruins “flight assist off” (which normally I’d always play with) is that you are most maneuverable at half throttle.  Of course, physically this makes no sense, which definitely contributes to it feeling so damn strange.  See the blue zone in the throttle (same thing as you saw at warp)?  When you are out of warp, it plays a different role.  You are most maneuverable when  your speed is in this blue zone.  As far as I know there is no function to match speed with target.  Often you don’t even want to do this in Elite, since you really want to stay in that stupid blue zone.  (If you play a lot of other space sims you probably know that you are much better off if you learn to match speeds with your target manually anyway, so that you have a good feel for how to adjust it when you need to close or pickup distance, but it can be a hard skill to master.)  I have to admit that the blue zone concept can definitely make the flight model rather interesting, but I still definitely do not think it is worth all the problems that it causes.  There were probably much smarter ways of accomplishing a similar effect, but FD decidedly has a rather brute force way of doing things.

     

    Anyway, give the flight model a chance, you’ll get used to it (at least to some degree).  I see it’s merit a little more now that I am playing something close to the final game.  FD definitely seems to have envisioned a game where all the mechanics revolve around trading, and where the vast majority of encounters are 1 vs 1 dogfights in deep space.  They like to say how much they hate things like “turreting” and “jousting”, but ironically, by my reckoning, there is actually quite a bit more jousting with their flight model than in most space sims (especially if two ships are badly mismatched in maneuverability).  It’s not the stroke of genius that the Elite fanboys like to claim it is, but it’s interesting, and it’s unusual, so I’ve learned to live with it.  The most heartbreaking thing about the flight model to me is that I never get to feel like I’m in a spaceship in the only game with a 1:1 scale Milky Way galaxy…

    #105610

    de5me7
    Member

    thanks for this, very useful. I will use this blue zone. I have generally done ok against individual opponents in the tutorials and I am getting a bit more used to the combat.

     

     

    I tried the open online mode for the first time half an hour ago.

     

    The galaxy is HUGE! Gordon Bennet! I would be surprised if i see many other players. My first real experience though was getting a parking ticket. In the tutorials, when you fly into a station there is only one landing pad lit up. In the actual game there were dozens so i assumed i could just take my pick. I didn’t realise i had to fly to a specific number. I also didn’t realise you have to be orientated facing toward the control tower. I spent ages getting annoyed not realising the games parking inspector cares which way i face my vehicle.

     

    its an interesting game. The damage modelling on the spacecraft is awesome and so is the feel of drifting in space but some of the game mechanics such as the parking are really anal.  

    #105611

    jankster
    Member

    To stop going past you destination use or bind a 75% Throttle 7 to 10 seconds before you get to destination you will see your speed and distance equalize and go Into the blue ready for disengage

    #105612

    Cody
    Member

    Welcome to SSC, jankster!

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