Home Forums Space and SciFi MMO and Multi-Player Only Discussion Infinity: Battlescape Is billions of star systems really necessary?

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    • #56966
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      Not to dig on the Infinity engine or the creators but does the size of the universe really need to be that big? there has been talk that the I-Novae engine can create 200 billion star systems 😯

      That is just an amazing feat but is it realistic? It you take you years just to navigate just 1 billion star systems never mind 200 billion. I think it is great that you could have that much freedom in a game and you would really get that ‘To boldly go where no one has gone before’ feeling.

      I just don’t want the game to be so large that you feel insignificant. I would probably look at making 500,000 to 1,000,000 star system game this way it is definitely large enough to support the player base and if you need to create more space you can by just spinning a short little story or make it an event to find the right outer system that connects to it.

      What are peoples thoughts on the game size for launch?

      Fanatical - Official PC Game Keys

    • #63366
      c0mas
      Participant

      I guess it depends on the number of the players targeted. Let’s say 10 000 players playing at the same time … and we want to meet one player with at least a few others … let’s say at least an average of 5 … so there should be enough 2000 systems.

      But a system can be quite huge, perhaps a system can be split in several locations (planets or something) … so for an average of 5 planets per system … there might be more than enough 400-500 systems.

      Even so :), if the game will have some “inside” interest points, we can approximate that a percent of the players will be inside some base/town and this will change a bit the numbers.

    • #63367
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      I know that sounded a bit large to me and your comments made a lot of sense. I mean I understand the whole huge universe and everything, but Infinity has a lot of promise and I would hate to see it be a victum of its on hype. Darkfall ran into this issue and they are being bashed for it right now with server issues and content etc…

      With all the comments and hype that people say about Infinity it can give you a false sense of what to expect. Yes people should wait on official comments but people speculate and that can be either positive or negative.

      A large universe in a Elite style MMO game is needed and wanted but people today are not like 20yrs ago. the bar has been raised on all games in general and if people don’t see the few things they want they consider it a failure nowadays.

      I have a huge respect for the indie developers out there that work tirelessly on a game to just give it away most of the time. And it seems that those games get judged at the same level as a pay to play game.

      I don’t want the world of Infinity to be empty space with no activity because that will turn so many people away after a few weeks of playing. So big worlds are nice as long as you fill them with things to do or communicate with.

    • #63368
      Pinback
      Participant

      Doesn’t matter how big the universe is, it what’s in it that will count.

      Content is king and I think that will be very true for this game,even given it’s other selling point of being able to fly from space to the planet surface.If there nothing to do on the surface or if all the Habitable planets in the systems are the same basic type players will become bored of it very fast.as Darkone said players expectations are lot higher today.

    • #63369
      s2odan
      Participant

      I for one am for the 1000s of Billions of stars. And the fact that no-one will ever be able to see them all is the whole point of a game like this. It means exploration is a viable means to success in the game.

      Think Frontier First Encounters, but with secrets in the galaxy, the ability to own multiple ships and stations and perhaps even colonies of your own, more diverse planets that actually look like real planets and of course other players in the galaxy 🙂

      Quote:
      I don’t want the world of Infinity to be empty space with no activity because that will turn so many people away after a few weeks of playing. So big worlds are nice as long as you fill them with things to do or communicate with.

      As far as I know, there’s not much chance of it all being ’empty space’. It will be similar to Eve, as in you start in or around your chosen nations Main worlds. Which would be populated by npcs, new players and most probably ‘care bear’ type players 🙂

      There was talk on the forums a while back about the inclusion of ground vehicles and ground assaults on colonies. And players could initiate or take part in battles like that, either from a ship or on the ground.

      But as far as I know, that particular feature will not be included at release, It is hard to find all the official comments on the game and all its features.

    • #63370
      Fald
      Participant

      To add to s20dan’s point: you will find most players will not stray too far from the core because making a living on your own out in the middle of nowhere is boring.

      So most players I beleive will have a high tendency to frequent the same few hundred systems.

      This means that infinity can’t have too much space because the only real purpose of having so many systems is to ensure no annoying immersion breaking barriers

    • #63371
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator
      s20dan wrote:
      I for one am for the 1000s of Billions of stars. And the fact that no-one will ever be able to see them all is the whole point of a game like this. It means exploration is a viable means to success in the game.

      Think Frontier First Encounters, but with secrets in the galaxy, the ability to own multiple ships and stations and perhaps even colonies of your own, more diverse planets that actually look like real planets and of course other players in the galaxy 🙂

      I am not against a universe with billions of stars I just don’t want it to be empty space with 1-3 planets per system and a space station. I want to have plenty of NPC pirate factions, hundreds of NPC races both peaceful and hostile, space wreckage from hundreds/thousands of years ago still drifting in space and things like that. Personally what would keep me playing Infinity for the long haul is exploration and just being able to do what you were able to do in Elite.

      s20dan wrote:

      There was talk on the forums a while back about the inclusion of ground vehicles and ground assaults on colonies. And players could initiate or take part in battles like that, either from a ship or on the ground.

      But as far as I know, that particular feature will not be included at release, It is hard to find all the official comments on the game and all its features.

      This would be a nice twist and add to the game play. Is that official?

      Fald wrote:
      To add to s20dan’s point: you will find most players will not stray too far from the core because making a living on your own out in the middle of nowhere is boring.

      So most players I beleive will have a high tendency to frequent the same few hundred systems.

      I would think so at first to get your feel for the game. But I now I would want to start the deep space exploration. But we’ll have to see if we will be able to do that with current low end ships. Or will the fuel and jump distance be an issue for deep space travel.

    • #63372
      Toimu
      Participant

      On the questions of ‘is the universe too large?’ two games come to mind; Planetside and WurmOnline.

      In Planetside you only have a few battles going on at a time with 95% of the world/system not being used.

      In WurmOnline there are large parts of the continent left to the wilderness and that is good. Gathering raw materials would be difficult for a new person if most of the raw materials are fenced off by farmers and ranchers.

      I agree with what some said here about people will stay somewhat close together for trade.

      At least the Davy Crocketts will have a place to go 😀 (August 17, 1786 – March 6, 1836) [if he could smell a neighbors cook fire, he was too close to them]

    • #63373
      SolCommand
      Participant

      So many systems are bad but also good …..

      GOOD: you can explore till you drop dead + you can harvest resources without anyone ever EVER interfering with your operations, which is definatelly a plus in my book

      BAD: as with EVE, most of the players will be concentrated in a few systems and the rest of the solar systems will be abandoned

      another GOOD: if you wanna start your own colony or “run from the law” you’ll have billions of possibilities, you can make yourself untraceable, again a plus, if you wanna be a hit-and-run pirate with a hideout … that is actually hidden … far in the depths of space. Brilliant 🙂

      SO that’s 2″+” and 1″-”

      It all depends on what kind of player you are ….. and all players are different, thus there’s no certain way to gain the hearts of every player.

    • #63374
      Stardreamer
      Participant
      Quote:
      BAD: as with EVE, most of the players will be concentrated in a few systems and the rest of the solar systems will be abandoned

      You were absolutely correct in that all players are different! I think this would be a GOOD thing. 😀 Excitement has it’s place but sometimes there is fun in just exploring a map and building an empire. It would be nice if there was a game mode (possibly a sandbox mode?) that you could happily play in without having to worry about constant attacks from alien armadas.

    • #63375
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      I know when I do get to play Infinity that my main focus is exploration with the occasional mining operation to make gas money 🙂 I also want to make that secret base that I can use to store all my loot from the deep space haulers. So basically unlimited space does suit my needs.

      But on the flip side you don’t want to always be alone when your playing…. guess that is why I will be build SSC Station and everyone is welcome to stay as long as they promise to protect it with their lives 🙂

      Damn I can’t wait for this game…. I fell in love with that galaxy map video (infinity-quest-for-earth-f18/galaxy-generation-t316.html).

    • #63376
      RedChico
      Participant

      I’ve got a simple yet effective response.

      The galaxy isn’t big enough for me and you.

      let alone for thousands of players. :mrgreen:

    • #63377
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      I don’t mind battling it out with ya RedChico in Infinity, we can let the thousands of other players play in the sectors of space we don’t want 😆

    • #63378
      GeraldineGeraldine
      Participant

      This question only has one answer for me, yes!

    • #63379
      SuperG
      Participant

      My anser is a big no. Because the question is necessary?

      Is it a key gameplay feature? If not then no ! Then 1billion wil do to 100Miljoen is realy insane big to. 1 Miljoen. it’s realy big to. Put the game in the pegasus satelite galacy and you got plenty of star systems. For a game where exploring is the key feature it make sens, but if not, its just “icing on the cake.”

      Argumentation is.

      Does the game need it for a key gameplay feature? If big realistic universe don’t support gameplay directly. Combat Trading building thinking doesn’t depend on that, its more optional. For emersion

      But if so that its a key gameplay feature. like Lot of effort in space exploring gameplay. The game is about searchin the galacy of points of interrest like strange fenomena advance live and alien flora, fauna, artifacts, salvaging, derelic ships, Advance civilisation ruins, astrofysial fenomena. There must be a nice balance of point of interrest per n(number) of Stars. Then big YES if you aim for realistic space exploring.

      If not, the gameplay is concentrated around a few key point of interrest. Like save space for leveling up. Then some places to do combat. Some conflicting aliens or pirates. Dispersed some where close. That doesn’t need a large galacy. It is Icing on the cake. And for gameplay resources a expensive feature. The value would be some dosis of emersion. For some free exploration hours. With nothing to find.

      If there is time for it then yah why not. But does the game need it. Not if the game goal is to be the king of the hill ELITE fighter. Or the next dagobert Duck in space.

      Fleet battles. Pirating space.

      But this game is a MMO no experience with that. But my opinion is in general. Don’t know the feature set of this game.

      But wenn I think of a real exploring aimed space game. You need a lot of point of interrest in miljoen size play field and then some bigger. Point of interrest on 1 out of 1000 stars wil get boring searching. So some hint can be handy. There must be some balance. Like startrek astrophysical room with very advance and hi-fidelity sensor array. Where the density of point of interrest can be lower. Wenn searching with deep space reaching sensors.

      And with such big large play field roughly 100.000 LY accross. there is a great need of fictional FTL solutions. Wich is Fiction. So simulation of fiction! realism?

      So how do you fill a 200Bil galacy. Procedural is a must. But even then a extreem difficult task. 1 on 1000. means 200mil point of interrest.

      So do i want it. Yes me to. Way better fill with interresting things. I do like well polsihed games with lot of icing on the cake. As long as the gameplay is solid.

    • #63380
      SolCommand
      Participant

      Well the more I think about all those billion star systems idea, the more it grows on me.

    • #63381
      Crayfish
      Participant
      SuperG wrote:

      It is Icing on the cake. And for gameplay resources a expensive feature. The value would be some dosis of emersion. For some free exploration hours. With nothing to find.

      It’s not an expensive feature, with procedural generation it’s effectively free. So the question really is why not have 200 billion star systems when you’re modelling a galaxy that has 200 billion star systems? Having less would mean imposing artificial walls.

      Yes, all that space will mostly be empty and only a small proportion of players will head out there. The same could be said about the wilderness of Canada. Will there be anything worth seeing out there? Maybe, maybe not, but it’s a “free” feature and I think it will be fun to find out.

    • #63382
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      Hi Crayfish

      I have always been the explorer type and will probably waste all my credits on fuel for my ship so I can keep exploring the vastness of space. Yes you could come across sectors of space with no real resources. But I am looking forward to the visuals and hopefully the Infinity team will make exploration a wow 😯 factor. If you have seen some of those nebula effects and those big planets ahhh bliss 🙂

    • #63383
      SuperG
      Participant
      Crayfish wrote:

      It’s not an expensive feature, with procedural generation it’s effectively free. So the question really is why not have 200 billion star systems when you’re modelling a galaxy that has 200 billion star systems? Having less would mean imposing artificial walls.

      Yes, all that space will mostly be empty and only a small proportion of players will head out there. The same could be said about the wilderness of Canada. Will there be anything worth seeing out there? Maybe, maybe not, but it’s a “free” feature and I think it will be fun to find out.

      Well if it cost nothing why not. But it still stands.

      Also there noting wrong with artificial wall. Especialy if gamers can’t reach them. Or doesn’t interfere with normal gameplay. It just reduce a lot of extra work that has not much value to the game. That why there are artifical walls.

      A bad example of artificial wall would be GRAW. A fps shooter in a town where you aren’t able to flank from the next streets. That is a wall gamers collide on. A example wich solve this is the way you hop from mission to mission in crysis. Lot of freedom to flank. And a bit more freedom then you realy need.

      Games where flankin is a tacktic as part of the gameplay. The play field just need room to flank.

      A example of your galactic overkill is. Having Farcry2 with a play field as large as whole earth. reduce to whole africa.

      Overkill a bit reduced is still overkill. No much colliding of gamers with that artifical wall.

      Beside in space the fastness off space just act like a natural wall of nothing. Compared to mountains and Ocean’s.

      In X3 the universe map is abstract restricted and simplefied. That wil do for bulk of gameplay it offers.

      But each sector it just seams you can go on and on in a direction. There isn’t much value in that. As game engine you could set a artifical wall if you travel for a month real game time in a direction. But then again wich gamer would do.

      The question is. “Is it necessary?”

    • #63384
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      True. I guess sometimes artificial walls might be necessary. With 200 billion possible star systems we automatically know that even at the peak of population on Infinity all of the 200 billion systems will never be discovered by the player base. So sometimes in this instance why not have a wall…? You could have 1 billion star systems and they still all wouldn’t be discovered by the Infinity population. I just look at it as a wasted resources that could be put back into the game doing something else.

      For me the scale is great and I love it. I think of myself as an explorer and do I think I would discover or visit even 5000 systems in my playtime in Infinity? Probably not, not that I wouldn’t be dedicated. But even me visiting/exploring 3-4 systems a day it would take over 3+ yrs to visit just 5k systems and that is playing daily.

    • #63385
      ObamaBangYoMama
      Participant

      I could easily see myself taking off and just exploring for 6 months, or getting far away enough from others to build some crazy inpenetrable fortress of a system in which to run operations from. Granted that during exploration, as someone else mentioned, you run the risk of running into something harsh like the borg or something. It’ll all get tied together somehow, thats what wormholes are for.

    • #63386
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator
      ObamaBangYoMama wrote:
      I could easily see myself taking off and just exploring for 6 months, or getting far away enough from others to build some crazy inpenetrable fortress of a system in which to run operations from.

      That is my whole reason to play Infinity when it comes out is the exploration. And I two wanted to build a outpost (hehe SpaceSimCentral) that players can visit and hang out at. But might not get too many players depending on how vast the universe is.

      ObamaBangYoMama wrote:
      Granted that during exploration, as someone else mentioned, you run the risk of running into something harsh like the borg or something.

      According to the dev team there is no alien life in Infinity…. least right now. So anyone that you will run into out there will be the long haulers and explorers (all human).

    • #63387
      Rith
      Participant
      Darkone wrote:
      And I two wanted to build a outpost (hehe SpaceSimCentral) that players can visit and hang out at. But might not get too many players depending on how vast the universe is.

      And I can pose as a lowly supplies trader to the SpaceSimCentral, silently pirating any lone players I come across.

      😈 😆 Missiles away!

    • #63388
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      Guess I am going to have to hire some merc’s to those pesky pirates away, unless I can equip the station with some sweet firepower. It will definitely be interesting to see what we will be able to do in this game and how open it will be.

    • #63389
      Straker
      Participant

      Q: Is billions of star systems really necessary?

      A: Yes. I enjoy the idea of getting lost in a sizeable universe. (kinda like a toddler let loose in a playground that’s a 1000 miles square)

    • #63390
      Jabberwocky
      Participant

      It’s relatively easy for any game that uses procedural content generation to make these kind of “billions of star systems” claims. The real question is how different are they from one another? That’s the question you need to ask. If they all start to look the same after visiting a few different systems, then who cares? But if there’s actual differences (both graphically and game-play), then agreed, it’s a cool feature.

      Although practically, 200 billion isn’t any different than 1 billion, or even 10 million. Any of those numbers is more than you (and maybe even a server full of people) could ever see in a lifetime of playing the game. It just sounds cooler, I guess. 😉

    • #63391
      RedChico
      Participant

      Well Jabberwocky, rest assured the mathematical equations for procedural creating star systems will as long as your arm full of diferent parameters and other stuff.

    • #63392
      Blackthorne
      Participant

      So, they’re at billions of star systems by now. Even for a MMO, think that this is overly ambitious. Then again, I consider Infinity to be overly ambitious, something that might easily spell it’s downfall.

      One problem with that amount of space in a persistent universe is the hardware required to handle it. Yes, it’s procedurally generated, but if half the features they have planned are implemented, quite a few of those systems will be given an extensive makeover by the players, increasing the amount of data associated with each system.

      From a gameplay point of view, it’s iffy at best – while I hate unconsensual PVP, it IS a selling point for a lot of people, and given the sheer amount of space, you’re unlikely to have much success stalking players – with a generous playerbase estimation of maybe 300K players, there’s still more than half a million systems per player in the game. While I’m pretty sure that some systems will be fuller than others, that’s still akin to finding a needle in a haystack. As a matter of fact, the game might be more of a solo experience, despite having 300K+ players on on server. You’re pretty unlikely to encounter anybody once you head out.

      The next “problem” (I don’t have any problem with this fact, but others definitely will) is that everywhere will look pretty much the same. The systems are procedurally generated, and due to the sheer numbers involved, systems will likely resemble each other – don’t expect amazing and wonderous sights. After the 20th binary system you’ll likely have a far more prosaic approach to the next one you find.

      “Suns, 2, one red, one white. Planets, 4. 1 terrestrial, mainly blueish vegetation. Only common resources. 1 gas giant. Guess I’ll use that to refuel and check the next system.”

      “Suns, one, yellow. Planets, 3. Traces of former habitation. Someone named the terrestial planet “Yermomsmells” and built a station there. According to scanners, no jump drive activity within the last 4 months of realtime.”

      The whole place will have a “been there, done that”-feeling once you’ve seen your share of systems. EVE has pretty much the same problems (space looks pretty much the same everywhere, despite the color variations), but has chokepoints built into it and is generally rather small – the game encourages turf wars on various scales. Whether or not this is your cup of tea remains disputable, but it does force the players to interact in one way or another.

      Infinity, however, is unlikely have those chokepoints if it intends to keep this number of systems.

      In a way, the idea sounds great. There is enough space for everyone, and whole empires might form in the great void. On the downside, it’s unlikely that anybody will find or care too much about these empires. Due to the vastness of the playing field and the tendencies of today’s players, you’re more likely to find fortified systems that are capable of producing ships and equipment, and the owners of said systems who will go to extreme lengths to get something to shoot at.

      The next issue will be keeping the player busy. So you have all of those wonderful systems. How can you interact with them? What kind of challenge will they provide to a player when no other players are around? Will interacting with them be fun at all?

      One of the main complaints about sandbox games is that there is nothing to do. (I strongly disagree with that, since it’s about setting your own goals instead of following the theme park ride, but I agree that getting thrown into deep water and being told “just swim already!” is intimidating.) You need to provide common goals in order to get the players to cooperate, and still make being a lone wolf trader/mercenary an option. Which is infinitely harder to do in a sandbox than in a theme park MMO, where you just need to dangle some shinies and tell the players that they’ll need a tank, a healer and some damage dealers to get said shinies.

      Some AI ships could spice exploration up a bit. Yet overdo that and basically require the players to form throngs of 40+ ships in order to make it somewhere alive and in one pice, and you’ve basically generated all that space for nothing, since only a handfull of your playerbase will ever get to see it.

      You need to keep all the players busy. Busy enough to keep them coming month after month, with this being a MMO. A big empty space won’t do the trick, not at all. It’s an interesting starting point, however.

      Right now, Infinity is busy with getting the universe to run. I wish they’d put more thoughts into getting the game behind it to be fun as well.

      -Blackthorne

    • #63393
      yamo
      Participant
      Blackthorne wrote:
      Then again, I consider Infinity to be overly ambitious, something that might easily spell it’s downfall.

      -Blackthorne

      😀

      Best line…ever!

    • #63394
      Cyrusblack
      Participant

      this is quite facinating, whats the status of this game?

    • #63395
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      It’s been pretty silent since the Infinity folks came out with that video a few months back.

    • #63396
      Cyrusblack
      Participant

      semi vapor ware or just taking a while to form up (IE coding is tedious and boring)

    • #63397
      Pinback
      Participant

      I got the impression that they were trying to form a more professional development studio to make the game or licence out the game engine.

    • #63398
      ollobrain
      Participant

      a few updates follow kieth innovae on twitter

      they have setup a professional company and now have 8 staff on theri books

      They have funding ( all hush hush) being provided by a fairly large game studio to get this game to beta status

      So the engine now is licensed has millions being backed behind it and keith and co are working on the game

      Latest video a few days ago shows as direct X 11 planet graphics game engine my mouth was watering. And other aspects of the game are coming along strongly

    • #63399
      Pinback
      Participant

      Good to hear they have started again hopefully we will be getting some more news from them.

    • #63400
      sscadminsscadmin
      Administrator

      Yeah the terrain engine looks great so far and hope eventually we could see some weather effects and vegetation/life on some of these planets.

      cs4_med.jpg

    • #63401
      Dalkeith
      Participant

      If you make exploring suitably dangerous despite the size the area inhabited by people will be much more manageable.

      Faced with danger people tend to congregate together I think its' one of the great things about eve when you head out you are genuinely nervous.

      Would be great to have a similar sense of danger in Infinity.

      If a billion star systems comes with no cost I'd say go for it otherwise 5,000 would still probably blow your mind.

    • #63402
      Straker
      Participant

      hehe,

      If you guys think a billion stars is annoying. You don't want to know about Limit Theories setup then, as it truly is infinte. It never ends…

    • #63403
      GeraldineGeraldine
      Participant

      Hi Straker

      Nice to see you posting again, and yes LT (I've backed it), I wonder what Frontier Developments thinks about it. Star Citizen wasn't direct competition for Elite IV, but LT does seem to be. Led by a bright young man with big ideas, sounds just like David Braben himself back in the 80s.

      I've said this before and will say it again, this is a great time to be a space sim fan! <img src='http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//girl_crazy.gif&#8217; class=’bbc_emoticon’ alt=’:girlcrazy:’ />

    • #63404
      DARI
      Participant

      … wish i had 200 billion seconds time left for my life…(on second thought iam not really sure..)

      back to topic – although iam a fan of large – open sand box style games – with no apparent boundaries

      i still like being able to remember where i have been in a game (especially useful for traderoute calculations, returning to that weaponsdealer once you have enough credits, and hunting for the next big ship)

      and this is usually less compatible with procedural generated content that would be needed to generate 5+digit numbers of star systems

      Try being a completionist playing the Discovery mod for Freelancer – there is "only" a 3 digit number of systems – but most especially the vanilla systems are very memorable.

      After some long journey or exploration when you get back to the core systems – you have almost that "finally back at home" feeling.

      Generating lots of starsystems thats so old – frontier already did that for the extreme – if you zoomed out of the galaxy map really far enough you could see more galaxies (though i dont know if they were just mirror images)

      Would like to see generated space ships / stations / infrastructure that wont look like random triangles and at least the ships should be buyable. (Thats right i really mean the models and according stats)

    • #63405
      Gen
      Participant

      Well if it cost nothing why not. But it still stands.

      Also there noting wrong with artificial wall. Especialy if gamers can’t reach them. Or doesn’t interfere with normal gameplay. It just reduce a lot of extra work that has not much value to the game. That why there are artifical walls.

      A bad example of artificial wall would be GRAW. A fps shooter in a town where you aren’t able to flank from the next streets. That is a wall gamers collide on. A example wich solve this is the way you hop from mission to mission in crysis. Lot of freedom to flank. And a bit more freedom then you realy need.

      Games where flankin is a tacktic as part of the gameplay. The play field just need room to flank.

      A example of your galactic overkill is. Having Farcry2 with a play field as large as whole earth. reduce to whole africa.

      Overkill a bit reduced is still overkill. No much colliding of gamers with that artifical wall.

      Beside in space the fastness off space just act like a natural wall of nothing. Compared to mountains and Ocean’s.

      In X3 the universe map is abstract restricted and simplefied. That wil do for bulk of gameplay it offers.

      But each sector it just seams you can go on and on in a direction. There isn’t much value in that. As game engine you could set a artifical wall if you travel for a month real game time in a direction. But then again wich gamer would do.

      The question is. “Is it necessary?”

       

      The game does not have 200 billion star systems, it has the capability to produce 200 billion star systems. All that it means is that if you go in one direction and keep going, when you reach the end of known space the game will keep generating more content for you. Seeing as the original area was generated on the same procedural engine, it’s impossible that beyond that space there would be any space that was any more or less interesting, minus the players.

       

      In this respect, its a bit like minecraft but on a interplanetary level. Personally, I think the devs haven’t released any content in a LONG time and that’s pretty telling though.

    • #63406
      Pinback
      Participant

      Welcome to the forums Gen.

       

      Infinity were thinking about doing a Kickstarter for a smaller, combat game, don’t know if their is any more new about that.

    • #63407
      robske
      Participant

      Personally I think in a universe many systems wouldn’t be that interesting in real life. Maybe only for extracting the resources of them for a period, but after that it becomes a useless system.

       

      In that sense, I think that the capability to make so many systems can easily facilitate this. Many systems wouldn’t be interesting at all. And would just be filler for the skybox or for a small mining outfit to mine there for a short time. Some systems (especially those with rich habitable planets) could be far more interesting, and eventually form market hubs and such.

       

      For a vibrant MMO community in a big universe, 5000 players can already be enough to make it a sustainable community. Heck, hazeron has far less, and still has a vibrant community, with their own ‘culture’ if I may name it so. It all depends on the type of gameplay, and the way how players get together. And in that sense I don’t see any reason for having all of the systems having semi-permanent or permanent habitation. Likely only a few will have that, and others will just be temporarily inhabited for as long as its residents find benefits in it through resources, as a hiding spot, or whatever.

       

      In that sense so many systems could really become viable if you manage to reach a 100.000 to 200.000 active playerbase.

    • #63408
      Tryst
      Participant

      I hope they do include that many. If you want solitude, travel out but if you want others to be nearby, stick to the hubs. I don’t want to see an Eve clone where the best materials are grabbed and held by the veterans with bases, sovereignty and huge mofo Titan ships while the newer players don’t even get a look in unless they can PVP like a pro.

       

      I would prefer to see a system where you have the ability to lose yourself in a distant corner of the universe to make your fortune. Somewhere that, if you go far enough, you will rarely see another player and have it all taken from you by them. In my mind, building up a nice little empire for yourself and having another player come along and destroy everything you’ve accomplished overnight is the biggest game breaker, it should be very hard, even as a group, to destroy your base. Since there is enough space for everyone, they can persist and risk losing their own ships or move on to settle on another system.

       

      My ideal game would be MMO but allowing you to solo to build up skills and experience in things other than combat to offer other players you wish to group with and make a guild. Otherwise, it’s simply a case of: I’m just another noob with nothing to offer who wants to join up. By allowing people to disappear into the vast reaches of space, they can become hermits to learn more about the commerce and industry side of the game without having to worry about requiring PVP combat skills, esepcially if they suck at PVP combat like me. When they join a guild/clan or whatever, they can leave the combat to players with more skill to do it while the non combat players continue to build ships and equipment for them to fly in combat. The non combat players can also work on base defences and repairs during a battle.

       

      What I hated most about Eve was that, you couldn’t learn about the game without coming across so many others just waiting to blow your ship apart for the fun of it. Yup, that’s real fun, but only for you, I fly an industrial with no defence and you fly a cruiser. I get blown up at gate camps every time I want to traverse the distance between the base and the main hub so basically, I am a prisoner with no means to get what I’ve manufactured/mined to a place to sell it. the alternative is to stick to the hub and never gain any experience in mining the top end ores/ice, moon mining, building anything larger than a battleship and so on. So much fun that I soon quit playing.

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