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  • #69082
    Avatarmunitio
    Participant

    Very interesting thread with a lot of information and amazing models!

    You are a talented guy!

    Thanks for that potsmoke66.




    Humble Book Bundle ends on 9/11/2019


    #69083
    AvatarPotsmoke66
    Participant

    thanks i need some compliments from time to time 😀

    and there’s still more to come

    but also still a lot to learn

    #69084
    PinbackPinback
    Keymaster
    potsmoke66 wrote:
    thanks i need some compliments from time to time 😀

    Do you,keep going keep going. 😀

    #69085
    AvatarPotsmoke66
    Participant

    uff, second ship to import to pioneer, why not, coolhand “free’s” his viper to me to and i havent started yet.

    i will in time.

    i guess i delayed the importing of standart frontier ships because of two reasons,

    first, i would like to see unique ship designs in pioneer, they could lean on frontier but not exactly covering them

    second, i like to work on scripted models by now, it’s a challenge. building a model with a CAD is one thing, scripting from a scratch is a complete different task. it will take you maybe much longer to complete one, but possibilities i mean flexibility it offers is unrevealed.

    well the Lanner, a nice transporter, what you think if i would rebuild it from the original ingame model used in ffe, it could be done. textures can be made (in near future, i guess).

    #69086
    GeraldineGeraldine
    Participant

    Yes, I like that Potsmoke. 🙂 I really think that red scratched texture really suits it. Shows how it would realistically look after many re-entries. Nice work! Could anything be done though about the registration numbers? They spoil its look.

    #69087
    PinbackPinback
    Keymaster
    potsmoke66 wrote:

    first, i would like to see unique ship designs in pioneer, they could lean on frontier but not exactly covering them

    Pretty much my feeling about the game is Pioneer should strive for its own look and feel and just not ape what was in Frointier.

    #69088
    farcodevfarcodev
    Participant

    It’s super to see so much good works ! keep it up ! :mrgreen:

    #69089
    Avatars2odan
    Participant
    Geraldine wrote:
    Yes, I like that Potsmoke. 🙂 I really think that red scratched texture really suits it. Shows how it would realistically look after many re-entries. Nice work! Could anything be done though about the registration numbers? They spoil its look.

    I think your referring to my ship? If so then thanks 😉 The reg entries can easily be removed. They are only there as that picture is an old one taken from FFED3D, and since Pioneer doesn’t have the reg entries (I think) then they won’t show.

    BTW Potsmoke66, I haven’t actually imported my ship to Pioneer yet, its still in FFED3D format.. I might even have the original 3Dsmax file somewhere. So any tips you have for porting it over would be great. Will the game read a model made for FFED3D do you think?

    potsmoke66 wrote:

    well the Lanner, a nice transporter, what you think if i would rebuild it from the original ingame model used in ffe, it could be done. textures can be made (in near future, i guess).

    Yes that can be done, I had a play around a while back at re-using the original models. In fact that Red Wyvern Explorer there uses the original model from FFE. Its just been changed a lot.

    Heres what I mean:

    compilation.png

    #69090
    GeraldineGeraldine
    Participant
    s20dan wrote:
    I think your referring to my ship?

    Oops! 😳 Sorry S20dan, it’s just that Potsmoke has been so busy making his models, I thought it was his. So please accept my apology 😳 Nice model all the same 😎

    #69091
    Avatars2odan
    Participant

    Oh its really no problem 😉 Just glad someone thinks the model is good enough for use 🙂

    Potsmoke, do you think you could give me a few pointers with converting my model? The only copy I have is a .x format, I have lost the original object file.

    #69092
    AvatarPotsmoke66
    Participant

    here we go,

    numero uno, why no reg#, i like much, replacing to correct or new positions, sizes in ffed3d is possible, with some braintwist. no, yes, reg# in pioneer are possible, even more then that since calling function for such is “easy”, that goes to ffed3d to, i showed you once a example, truely you can have a reg#, a let’s say personal name for the ship (or the general ship type, you can request from string table), and if you really like to get it to the top, your comandr (savegame) name under the rustrum (if there’s one), i guess number of kills would be possible to 😮

    ok, that would need some extra time and extra investigations to FFE of me, but possible. additionally it’s hard, really hard to work on both FFED3D and Pioneer, commanders mind is allready twisted and the engine’s halfways wrecked by now, could need some service in next dry dock. 😉 (i lost a harddrive, it’s true, and by now all photos of me and every little tidbit i downloadet in the past 6 months is lost so far, stupid me 😥 don’t tell me i should have… yes i should but dvd’ drives was dismounted since i don’t know and do i have to tell you what was behind “security relevant update”, now you will understand my angry post of last week, no joke drives was physically ok, also present drivers in registry bur cancelled by windows, what a ………. 😈 😈 😈 😈 i guess this guy should never meet me in the dark…..)

    to remove (no, no don’t do it 😥 ) it’s a easy task, you will only have to find the call for the reg# in FFED3D of the certain type of ship and blank that out with 0xFFFF. and on many ships they even never appear without a good hack (e.g. cobra mk3) or are simply covered by the model (e.g. coolhands viper).

    numero due

    converting from .x to .obj, no big deal, only that you will lose the animations of the landing gear, but that doesn’t matters anyway, because you will have to write a complete new one in pioneer (task’s not finished yet by me, but allready i know how to).

    just in case that your program doesn’t support wavefront .obj format use 3DWin5 to convert it comes with Rheingold3D from TB-software, but can be downloadet there separately.

    general stuff how to convert i posted in “modeling for pioneer”, but i will repeat the basic’s here; measurement of ships (i guess that’s important in first place) is 87 * 10 percent of the .x model for ffed3d you used. “erm what 87 * 10?” yes, use 87% of original in your cad prog. multiply the size in the .lua script by ten, that works best, imho, else the models get to big in the cad to work with, especially medium to big ships, from on the ASP and upwards, because of the fogging some programs have, 870% is a bit gigantic usually.

    this will result in a perfect pioneer metric scale and it will give you additionally the advantege to position the thrusters, position lights and other optional sub models, in a scale compliant to pioneers vectors (1 integer vector = 1 meter), so you can “count” the vec’s distances on your model if you underlay a 10:1 grid, you can use for shure 1:10 to make the hundredth parts visible, to get proper vectors in 1cm range e.g. 1.73 which stands for 1meter 73 centimeters, but respect allways your scale you used also 1:10 perhaps, on your model it is then….

    right, 0.173 steps of a 1:1 grid.

    i hope i didn’t calculated anything wrong 🙄

    models for pioneer are best split to several parts, because you will have to (can) specify in the lua script, various materials for them, such as blendet colors, variable colors, glossy to matte parts in all shades or even transparency if needet, has to be assigned this way, sounds complicated at first, but for car modelers like me a common thing. texture use newly is possible, a big thanks tomm he solved that very quickly. but we will have to wait for a working new alpha2 (it’s in the boxes, ready to race). you can write the lua allready for texture use, usage is explained in pioneers wiki, i guess 😉 , but i know it needs some extra explanations (for me to and some trys, else the results will be unpredictable i guess) after all it wont be like modeling -> exporting -> voila, like for FFED3D.

    even if i guess there is a possibility to do the job halfways automated within Blender (good prog., no best imho), but someone will have to write a export python script for it, a similar one i have seen allready. if i find the page again and find enough courage to ask that developer, who knows?

    numero tre

    i promise i will post a complete example lua script with explanations to every step, as soon as i have everything in a good shape and texture use is supported by alpha2, this goes also to the work with complete scripted models, which i personally prefere by now, because i told you, it gives pioneer a special Frontier, no Pioneer charm 8-), man im thirsty now, hand me a beer or two.

    #69093
    AvatarPotsmoke66
    Participant

    s20dan, you used subsurface scattering to smooth your models right?

    hint, for pioneer, normals tuning is possible to but i still need some more experience with it, but for FFED3D i can only recommend a good normals tuning, this will reduce the poly count drastically, optically in the game it’s the same smooth borders.

    another thing you can do to keep a good framerate in pioneer is the use of lod (level of detail), also for “solid” models, but you will have to build a model for each lod you specify. generally this is why i love the scripted models so much, the lod controls fully the amount of polys used for the “planes” or primitives you use. ends up in high detailed models when close, low detailed when far. just like, yes good old frontier, only better!.

    oh before i forgot, to get a grip to how models are build in pioneer:

    Code:
    define_model(‘blob’, {
    info = {
    bounding_radius=8,
    materials={‘blue’}
    },
    static = function(lod)
    set_material(“blue”, 0,0,1,1)
    use_material(“blue”)
    cylinder(16, v(-5,0,0), v(-5,5,0), v(1,0,0), 1.0)
    text(“blob_static()”, v(-5,-2,0), v(0,0,1), v(1,0,0), 0.5)
    xref_thruster(v(5,0,0), v(0,0,-1), 10)
    xref_thruster(v(5,0,0), v(0,0,1), 10)
    xref_thruster(v(5,0,0), v(0,1,0), 5)
    xref_thruster(v(5,0,0), v(0,-1,0), 5)
    thruster(v(5,0,-5), v(1,0,0), 5, true)
    thruster(v(5,0,5), v(1,0,0), 5, true)
    thruster(v(-5,0,-5), v(-1,0,0), 5, true)
    thruster(v(-5,0,5), v(-1,0,0), 5, true)
    text(“HELLO FROM BLOB”, v(0,0,0), v(0,0,1), v(1,0,0), 10.0)
    end
    })

    poo = 0
    define_model(‘test’, {
    info = {
    lod_pixels={30,60,100,0},
    bounding_radius = 10.0,
    tags = {‘building’, ‘turd’},
    materials = {‘red’, ‘shinyred’}
    },
    static = function (lod)
    set_material(“red”, 1,0,0,1)
    set_material(“shinyred”, 1,0,0,1, 1,1,1,50)
    use_material(“red”)

    xref_flat(16, v(0,0,1),
    {v(4,0,0)}, — straight line bit
    {v(4.5,-0.5,0),v(5,0,0)}, — quadric bezier bit
    {v(5,0.5,0),v(4,0,0),v(4,1,0)}, — cubic bezier bit
    {v(3,0.5,0)}, — straight line bit
    {v(3,0.3,0)} — etc
    )
    zbias(1, v(0,5,0), v(0,0,1))
    geomflag(0x8000)
    text(“LOD: ” .. tostring(lod), v(0,5,0), v(0,0,1), v(1,1,0):norm(), 1.0)
    geomflag(0)
    zbias(0)
    use_material(“red”)
    for i = 1,10 do
    tapered_cylinder(lod*4, v(i,0,0), v(i+1,0,0),
    v(0,1,0), math.abs(noise(5*i,0,0))+1,
    math.abs(noise(5*(i+1),0,0))+1)
    end
    use_material(“shinyred”)
    xref_circle(9, v(4,5,0), v(0,0,1), v(1,0,0), 1.0)
    tri(v(12,3,0),v(13,3,0), v(12,4,0))
    xref_tri(v(13,3,0),v(14,3,0), v(13,4,0))
    xref_quad(v(6,6,0), v(7,6,0), v(7,7,0),v(6,7,0))
    –[[
    xref_cubic_bezier_tri(32, v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(2,0,0), v(3,0,0),
    v(0,-1,0), v(1,-1,3), v(3,-1,0),
    v(0,-2,0), v(2,-2,0),
    v(0,-3,0))
    –]]
    —[[
    xref_quadric_bezier_tri(16, v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(2,0,0),
    v(0,-1,0), v(1,-1,2),
    v(0,-2,0))
    –]]
    –[[
    geomflag(0x8000)
    xref_quadric_bezier_quad(16, 16,
    v(0,0,0), v(1,-1,0), v(2,0,0),
    v(-1,1,0), v(1,1,8), v(3,1,0),
    v(0,2,0), v(1,3,0), v(2,2,0))
    –]]
    –[[
    xref_cubic_bezier_quad(32, 32,
    v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(2,0,0), v(3,0,0),
    v(0,1,0), v(1,1,5), v(2,1,0), v(3,1,0),
    v(0,2,0), v(1,2,0), v(2,2,0), v(3,2,0),
    v(0,4,0), v(1,4,0), v(1,4,0), v(1,3,0))
    –]]
    –[[
    extrusion(v(0,0,0), v(0,0,-5), v(0,1,0), 1.0,
    v(1,0,0), v(0.5, 0.8, 0), v(0,1,0), v(-0.5,0.8,0), v(-1,0,0),
    v(0,-0.5,0))
    –]]
    end,
    dynamic = function(lod)
    poo = poo + 0.005
    set_material(“red”, math.sin(poo)*math.sin(poo), 0.5, 0.5, 1)
    use_material(“red”)
    xref_cylinder(16, v(-8,0,0), v(-8,5,0), v(1,0,0), math.abs(math.sin(poo)))
    circle(9, v(5*math.sin(poo),5*math.cos(poo),0), v(0,0,1), v(1,0,0), 1.0)

    local ang = 2*math.pi*get_arg(0)
    –call_model(“blob”, v(0,0,-20), v(1,0,0), v(1,1,0),1.0)
    billboard(‘smoke.png’, 5, v(.5,.5,1), { v(0,0,0), v(10,3,0) })
    end
    })

    it’s tomm’s demo model, if you have still have a download of pioneer alpha1 containing the modelviwer, place this to a copy of it, and rename “models.lua” to “whatever.lua” name this simply “models.lua”. start command console and execute e.g. or

    it gives you an idea how lua scripts are used in pioneer for models (its in the original models.lua but it can’t be called because it’s underneeth the general call for “any .lua” in data\models\mods drawer which halts modelviewer)

    i do the same procedure for any of my scripted models to check them and i did to checkout tomm’s models, but load_obj is not supported so far, also modelviewer can’t look recursively for any models in mods drawer it loads only from models.lua placed in data\models folder, anything else terminates the program (another possibility is to rem ( — , “two dashes in front of line”) the lines for the call of load_lua data\models\mods in original model.lua). open lua scripts best with wordpad but i guess that is offens.

    hint,

    if you have any problems with the syntax (really it can cost you nerves to find a forgotten comma or bracket) use luaedit.

    it will show you such syntax errors (run script/check syntax, pulldown) and you dont have to open allways the “stdout” or “stderr” file and count the lines in wordpad to find the certain missmatching type if it’s been reported there at all.

    i’m still thirsty 😉

    #69094
    Avatars2odan
    Participant

    Thanks a lot for that info. Losing the animation is no problem, as this was my first model and I didn’t bother to make one 😉

    Yes those models just used a subsurf division (I think) maybe Scatter script in Blender, then I exported them to 3dsmax to change the shape a bit then to optimize and reduce number of polys.

    I followed your instructions with the model viewer, and it does make some sense to me now. It looks like a right load of work to make a model 🙂

    Just been playing around trying to make a model.. this is hard! I’ll have to make an accurate sketch like you suggested earlier.

    #69095
    AvatarPotsmoke66
    Participant

    😳

    😆

    like me, still a lot to learn

    i guess over the years i got lazy do a nice skin, i guess it’s because i started with

    #69096
    AvatarPotsmoke66
    Participant

    if you own XWA you might find this interesting

    http://www.darksaber.pnma.co.uk/

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