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This HumbleBundle expires on 12/31/2018

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    • #61615

      First i thought to use my old thread, but since the title mismatches the idea i thoought it’s a beeter idea to open a new thread.
      the reason is simple
      i started to resurrect “Sputnik” from it’s remnants.
      right today i had the idea to rename it to “Phoenix” which suits well to what has happened to “Sputnik” (but the sputnik i will keep in the menu screen, it’s a fine model in original scale based on the original blueprints).
      you might know i almost lostbeverything i made for “Sputnik”
      i recovered some remnants on my oms macbook and in a folder where i stuffed all i could save from the broken HD
      i found a source for the alpha30/31 release and with this (and only with this) i can recently work.
      sofar i haven’t compiled sputnik yet again, i have to remember the changes to the program i made first.
      that wasn’t many and mostly it made the game more flexible for modding it by removing things like given ship names i.e. “Lanner” or “ladybird” (for the cops) with more senseful names like “default_ship” and “police_ship”.
      this avoids things like a “exchange” script to xchange a standart lanner wih any ship of your choice and especially for the police vessel.

      to help me remembering what i need i started to use a alpha31 build and stuffed the leftover “Sputnik” models in it, not bad i even found some vital old scripts in which i programed all the helper functions for a “simple” to use LMR.
      new things (but old ideas) came to my mind.
      this let’s call it pre-release has still the odd exchange-models scripts but it’s already nice to see the stuff together working again, it makes me somewhat happy,
      not all and everything is lost like i thought in beginnng.

      the goals are still the same
      keeping the LMR
      refining it until it gets to a sort of construction kit, maybe even to resurrect the old idea of combining your own ship instead of buying a finished one, it’s possible with the LMR.
      and my endless functions script is the start in this dirction.
      but i already would think it’s cool to i.e. upgrade your engine and you would notice this on your fighter, cool would be a LEGO like system you build your ship from a set of given parts which have different costs and efficiency.
      of course “generated missions” instead of hand written missions i still have in mind, even this could work with the lua scrips.
      still i like to make the fighting somewhat easier because i don’t believe it’s fun to let the machine the do job (maybe for some is that the fun).
      to grab the right co-pilot is “final fantasy strategy like” push the right button at the right time, but to me this was never playing a game.
      disrespecting the success this game had or i have to say by looking at this fact 80% of gamers are lame (sorry).
      but i see where this comes from “Solitaire” how many still play card games on the computer? i don’t know, but solitaire you can easy play without a computer and for the computer if he would have a soul, the most boring to play.
      just look how many arcade solitaire and mah-jongh’s existed for the asian market, i guess they love these rather stupid games and it seems they love it most when they can uncover a naked girl by removing the blocks.
      i saw and was surprised not to long ago a asian arcade hall in tai-peh, well where else you play tei-peh (mah-jongh solitaire) as in tai-peh
      i mean **arcade halls**… show me one which is not a museum in US or europe, and they still go to the arcade hall
      to play a solitaire in 2017! (i don’t know but i have this strong suspect they do it only because of the naked girls – well that’s something i can’t understand if i lack of girls to look at i draw me some
      yes maybe i should migrate to asia and draw naked girls for them? would that be a good idea?).
      sort of these players will be satisfied with a “final fantasy” system, press the right button at the right time.

      i’m not but therefore such a “final fantasy player” (i know one) never can understand what we get out of a open ended space game,
      i know most can’t get something out of it because it lacks of a path to follow and usually they ask “what do i have to do in this game?”
      on which we could only answer “everything you decide to do”.
      if there is no clear path to follow, no given task to fulfill then they are simply overwhelmed.
      and no it’s not enough topress the right button…
      and it should never turn to something like this, not a tiny little bit

      what i like is a situation how marcel described it once
      you are surrounded by 200 pirates longing to kill you!

      i like to do it manually reasonable or not for 3200, a mind controlled spaceship and a computer which does the job for you isn’t fun to play with, that’s as boring as cheating, even more, from cheating you can learn at least.
      but who knows when it goes on in this direction tomorrows games will have a single button – to start the so called “game” the rest is made by the computer and you watch how he do it.
      i mean really we go in this direction
      i’m a “forever gamer” a so called veteran – hi there geraldine -, i play computer games since i can remember from dad’s self made pong and lightgun game in the early 70’s to Pioneer, coin-ops and everything which was labelled “computer game” .
      then i watched a not so serious ment clip about old computers respectively if the youth of today can handle our hardware.
      you laugh your ass off, first you see the boys playing a motion controlled game, some river rafting, but what they have to do to play it is… nothing – nothing like lean a little on this side – lean a little on the other.
      ok then they handed the girl a cassette recorder, she didn’t even knew where to start (press play), damned the symbols for play never changed since 40 years baby it’s a arrow pointing from left to right,
      my baby aged 2 found out in minutes how to play a cassette stop it and reverse to hear “sabre dance” of dave edmunds again (while ok i never forbid her to fumble on my stereo, the knobs are so attracting to babies
      and unlike the knobs she has on her toys this knob is working, something is happening and this puts a smile on a babies face).
      then they let them play on a atari console pac-man, no surprise the boys get nowhere “it’s to hard” they claim while the girl can get fun out of it and evolves.
      oh yes they are to hard for you young fellows i know, it’s really not enough to lean from one side to the other,
      you need a good reaction time, you need to have good control over your hands and yes even a little strength and endurance (endurance or patience i guess that’s the lack)
      to hell for some games you need even your brain! how could that be?

      i guess we can only learn from old games what is this thing called gameplay, why was a pac-man such a hit and it wasn’t because there was no competition
      the competition in the 80’s was that hard that they payed dreamers to dream of new games (root of the “riders of the blue sky” because they was payed to “ride the blue sky”).
      especially after the huge success of pac-man, but it was never reached, not even with “Quix” of which i think has the much better gameplay, it can make you addicted to it.
      and still you will find a “Quix” clone for whatever platform in whatever style.
      tetris was another hit which is still alive if that is now a sort of “columns” and if the graphics changed to little dragons shooting at gems which are guided by a evil giant in 3D, the gameplay is still the same.
      and of course labyrinth games certainly still exist, it’s a simple concept but it’s fun to play and to evolve.

      building a game which runs on low-specced machines, which really runs on them, once it wasn’t overloaded with shaders and sorry but software postprocessing costs extremely processing time, i could use for this endless dynamic stuff.

      that’s all so far

      This bundle expires on 12/20/2018

    • #110268

      by looking at this fact
      > to hell for some games you needed even your brain!
      “a simcity for every child” along with “a laptop for every child” makes a lot sense

    • #110270

      how far i am?

      mostly it looks still like pioneer, it is pioneer it’s only named “Phoenix” from now on
      (for several reasons it’s a phoenix resurrected from the ashes and i always liked “phoenix” the shoot ’em up)

      but if you like i can post some new shots for those who are new and have no idea what gernรถtli is doing and how he is related to pioneer
      for the latter ask pinback or geraldine

      in advance if you feel the models look very basic, yes they do and this is bound to the Lua Models Resource which had ben removed from pioneer a couple of years ago.
      but to me no pioneer without the LMR it’s one of the main differences for me to other space sims and there are many.

      scriping models has limitations, mostly by the length of the script, in a CAD to build a model and use up easy a 10’000 vertices (vectors) for a few shapes.
      in a script you have to define these vectors first by typing them in the script and 10’000 i never used, but therefore countless polygons.
      with a software it’s easy to create shapes and you can perform a lot of “magic”, for the LMR you have to invent the “magic” first.
      with a software it’s easy to animate a object (while exporting the animation is still a problem, and bound to the chosen model system).
      in a script no such “matrix animations” which results follow a given translate/rotation matrix are possible,
      you have to “dream” the animation first ad then find the right way to make it possible, but there are limitations,
      one is that you can’t correct data, a moder CAD will do this for you and it’s easy to setup a rigged outlayer or a conrod
      while like i stated it’s not as easy to export such properly, helpers like constraints won’t be present in the exported mesh, thus you need a “clever” export script,
      clever means simple, one which exactly writes the matrix as you see it in the CAD, nothing more and nothing less.
      internally CAD’s don’t work with a matrix it’s pretty much the same as i script, translate and rotate, only that a CAD will ahve the possibility to
      make joints by clamping on a certain vertice or calculates correctional data on the fly for things like a conrod.
      this i can’t with a script on the fly or not.

      the used collada (if that is still used for pioneer) model system is very similar to a script, at least for the animations and that’s the reason why you can’t have a conrod in collada
      because you can’t export it how you builded it to collada and the result is unpredictable.
      collada is ment i repest myself i know, for web presentations and not to create models for a game, point
      collada animations can always be reolved, means if you get a collada model you can load it to the CAD and everything appears like it should the animation is the same as it was
      for the original model with exception of constrains and correctional data
      collada supports only one animation channel, well that’s fine for a presentation, but for a game?
      we have dirctx meshes
      it’s old yes, but these guys thought of the future and it’s made especially for games and nothing else
      you can animate as much as you like in a x mesh, it’s not lmited to one channel even if most game engines use only one channel
      it’s not limited to simple translate and rotational stuff, they are matrix animations and if one likes it or not they have advantages
      x meshes can even reproduce skinned animations it was “promised” but then…
      they chose collada which can’t perform any of this
      the only lack of a dx mesh is it can’t be resolved
      if you load it to a CAD the animation is rubbish and the parts are depending on how they was centered centered to their origin which is often 0,0,0
      thats’the weak point of dx meshes they aren’t exchangeable
      collada is exchangeable but limited the same as a scripted model, even more because in a script i decide how many animation channels i need for a specific model.
      you can se this easy if you examne a collada, it’s build up like a script and the animations are translate from vector to vector or rotate so and so radiants in so and so time.
      but i can’t deform a mesh (which i can in a script) and i can’t influence this simple animation channel even if i know where i had to put the correctional data,
      in a script this is only bound to the limits of my imagination.

      for collada you have to know almost as much about geometry as for a script, for dx meshs you won’t have to know this.
      e.g. that a conrod will only work if at least two shankels of the triangle which it forms have the same length.
      like it would work mechanically, in reality for i.e. a steam powered locomotive you cant “shrink” the conrod or correct the wheels position,
      if the conrod is designed wrong either the conrod or the wheel will break (i suspect the conrod or “pleuel” like we say in german).

      it’s a small difference…
      a small difference?
      well a landing gear moving in a rotational movement out of it’s recess looks stupid, what drives this? usually pistons what means a conrod.
      i a CAD it’s rather easy to let the conrod follow the rotational movement thus it looks like the conrod would drive the wheel or rig even if it’s for the model vice versa.
      the rig or the wheel slippes the conrod after itself and the conrod had to be clamped to a given position.
      a small difference with a quite big effect.
      if i can’t have conrods i can’t animate such, not even close to it and this is the limitation which frustrates me most avout collada
      (apart from “signal lost” eh it’s a active format and really not ment for games, but therefore the Mac displays the model in the thumbnail (or signal lost if it fails to open it)
      and you can use collada in a PDF or a HTML and that’s what it’s ment for, to present mainly architecture or technical parts in the web or in a pdf.
      and yes exactly for the technical parts the “true animation” is needed you know this part you see will work in reality as it works in collada, because collada works like real mechanics)
      but for a game if i can’t script the model then at least i like to have all i can do in my CAD and not beeing limted to true mechanics, apart from the fact that the CAD will calculate
      correctional data on the fly and unnoticed by you, thus you won’t know if it works finally in collada as you ment it.

      that was a quite long reasoning, but well for those who wonder what this means and why i started “Sputnik”
      and why the models i will post here look very basic.

    • #110272

      nothing really nothing fits as well as a random generated name ๐Ÿ˜‰

      lookathat (which is even randomly the name the name of the single outdoor planet in recent achernar )
      looakthat! (and a name used in a old sci-fi story for a huge mountain, lookathat)

      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/2017-04-10_162747_zpsly2az0vz.png “”)

      first the funny name i didn’t do anything els as to buy one ship, no change of registration or hack
      well a fresh saucer that’s what it is ven if it isn’t a saucer but by the means of flying saucer it is one, more or less
      a fresh saucer.

      but do you notice what i really like to show?
      >! it’s the different lighting of the scenery, we have here a blue giant and a dwarf star, usually in pioneer everything under a dwarf star or a red sun is glowing red,
      >! i even wondered why everything is so flat and you couldn’t see the terrain.
      >! i always disliked it, it’s not natural and shading needs more refining of course.
      >! i simply snooped in the respective script and “siehe da” (lookathat!) “add star color to objects emmissive color” comment “a bit odd”
      >! if it’s odd why using it? i changed it to the right thing “add star color to objects diffuse color” and “lookathat” probelem solved no more glowing red planets
      >! no more structure of the terrain isn’t to see, proper shading for buildings and planet.no more “i feel the scattered light is to strong”.
      >! directive light and the feel of shade where no lighting should be is proper.

      intentionally i liked to start with this shot, but after i noticed the unique name of the above ship i had to post it first
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/2017-04-10_161603_zpsvrccwqxl.png “”)

      as one can se it’s still labelled “Pioneer”, like i said i only liked to see if the remnants a scrambled will still work.

      it’s evening on “lookathat”, but i guess one can see the proper shading nonetheless (because the terrain isn’t glowing)
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/2017-04-10_161700_zpsjmrslwk4.png “”)

      a very typical Ladybug, this is how we started out
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/2017-04-10_165623_zpsi2wewe56.png “”)
      anyones got a idea what “False Devastation” means?
      i really love my “legal names” you never now what will be the result and mostly it produces a smile.
      “falsche verwรผstung” interesting, a wrong devastation…
      besides there woud be a lot of devastations false and proper ones good and bad light and heavy dark and bright or well even a fresh devastation
      because of this it rarely fails.

      besides for this release not a single “solid” mesh is allowed
      everything is based on scripts and if anyone likes to contribute to “Phoenix” he will have to mess with the LMR.
      of course still this would be possible since it’s alpha32 it supports all formats we used “pure” scripted models, models using wavefront obj and put together with the script
      or collada or dx meshes latter are badly supported by pioneer even if it would be the right format for a game like pioneer.

      the decicion was collada and i will never understand this – not in a hundred years.
      but if one likes to transport rocks in a ferrari or tries to challange a ferrari with a pickup then it’s the right format.

      it’s imho the same as you would try hard as you can to display a dx mesh in a HTML script.
      it’s the wrong format for the job.
      a construction worker as a surgeon is pretty the same.

      i tryas hard as i can to make the model scripting easier with countless helper functions,
      to rotate a gear in easy way with rotation helpers, the “gear_rot” will rotate a model by parameters for you
      to call finished landing gear sub-models, all of the recent ships use them
      to help you with setting up materials from a materials table, because mostly you will use the same settings
      to make the scripting of vectors easier with “mirror x” and “halfways v1, v2” (interpolate vectors, while one could use “vlerp” and a fixed percentage)
      with a simple translation helper which translates the model by parameters for you.
      with a text autoscale function to scale text to a given space, thus no matter if the station is named “la seur du Dan Ham” or twice as long it will fit to the space.
      with finished engine glow materials and ready to use nozzles for the ships.
      with station animation helpers to ease the animation of stations
      and there is planned a lot more

      also a wide range of ready to use sub-models
      the landing gear as i told already, four different ones, one simple front “single wheeled” one rear “quadruple wheeled”, one to place under a wing “airplane like”,
      one simple piston which rakes out of the ship.
      my old position lights with a enhancement, they flash now like on a airplane
      a pilot (my old scripted one it has to be made new, it uses up to much tris)
      two robots or droids to place in stations or whatever one decides to do with them
      everything you remember from the past

    • #110273

      the landing gear sub-model is something which maks it really a lot easier
      and such is what i imagine as a sort of consruction kit, ready to use parts.
      it won’t look as good as if you create special ones relation of size and texture is given
      both i can make somewhat more flexible but it costs ease. then it’s a function and you will have to set the parameters for texture and scale.x
      scale.x is enough if you can scale x you can fit the model to any dimension together wth the global scale, without to loose functionality of the conrod
      or to create accidentially oval wheels.

      it’s planned and i had to remove the start of the change because of the screenshots i posted

      it’s besides a good example how the kit will work, ready to use parts which can be scaled and textured different by choice
      even texture coordinates i could automate
      it’ simple a texture has always the size X1 Y1 (or U1 V1, if you like), thus to proper scale a texture to a shape of i.e. 2m x 4m
      you simply have to divide 1 with either 2 or 4 and the result s the scale for the texture.
      to move the texture to the right place similar can be made it’s all just geometry and mathematics.

      a example how this work is to find in my “outdoorstations” script, because if i didn’t use a textured .obj
      i have to set different texture coordinates for the landing pad creation function, this i had to automate and it works well.
      that is mainly for my “cheated” floodlight, it’s a glowmap which looks like the floodlights would light up the landing pad.
      besides glowmaps are a good helper for such tricks, i used once the “local lighting” function for the cockpit lighting
      but it’s far better and the result is almost the same if i use a glowmap, better even because i can exactly decide how it should look like,
      what will be lit up and what is in the shade.

      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/2017-04-10_181746_zpson66jsuu.png “”)

      “just geometry and mathematics” if my old teacher would hear this i guess he gets a heart attack, he knew that i’m not bad in it
      but i didn’t believed him.
      and now gernรถtli is using geometry his most hatet subject in school nearly daily.

      but well i also thought “if there comes a time i need this i still can learn it”

    • #110274

      “Fรผr Fragen und Vorschlรคge bitte diesen Briefkasten benutzen”

    • #110285

      Hi Gernot,

      What is the shading change you made for planets?
      I want to make sure that we’re not doing something strange in Pioneer too.

    • #110287

      in words
      “i simply snooped in the respective script and “add star color to objects emmissive color” comment “a bit odd”
      i changed it to “add star color to objects diffuse color”.
      the result is hat the terrain isn’t glowing anymore exept for the lava shading which is declared seperately
      i can’t tell if that is still present in the recent build(s), since i recenty can’t run anything above alpha31

      the change is in geosphere_terrain.frag

      “#else // NUM_LIGHTS > 0 — unlit rendering – stars
      //emission is used to boost colour of stars, which is a bit odd Q:if it’s odd why not use material.diffuse?
      gl_FragColor = material.diffuse + vertexColor; //instead of diffuse, emission was used

      matter of choice maybe?
      but i felt always the since some release that the terrain and surface objects lost depth and i guess it was this change

      it results in a quite good directve light from ore then one lightsource but keeps the things in shade which should stay in shade
      the only thing is still feel the whole scenery is to dark, probably (but not only, the glowing has no effect on the ships) because of this change
      but i certainly will find the powerswitch.

    • #110288

      some oldies

      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/screenshot-20170413-045453_zpsz7jkc0me.png “”)

      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/screenshot-20170413-045649_zps8p2qiphq.png “”)
      in pioneer ships don’t land on antigrav pads, since this won’t happen ever.

      of course enyone can see it’s a XF MKI :smiley:
      but nut much would had to made this ship is still present in many variations in my archive,
      the adding of the landing gear was quite some work or turned out to be.

      the next i had to clutter together i found the script and made a new texture new for it
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/screenshot-20170412-171649_zpspkkr1tuy.png “”)
      this will be what you have to mess with in phoenix, i shitty Lander with which you first have to make some very boring and not very profitable
      interplanetary cargo runs.
      the capacity is quite good and you can carry at least 5 passengers but it has no a hyerdrive or any sort of weapons or defense
      it’s what i feel a “interplaneary shuttle” is ment for
      and if you have no autopilot at start then it’s sometimes quite tricky to succeed in a rather simple mission
      the specs are low and due to that you need a lot of time and fuel*

      following is a brutality
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/screenshot-20170412-172339_zpsanfeflmx.png “”)
      it’s a waste of polygons in the scripted variation, but i had to revive this combination of three Landers, for some reason it has the docking nozzles.

      even this one i could save
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/screenshot-20170412-172108_zpsttfjchkt.png “”)
      i still have it as a SGM model but it neded quite some luck to find the script, the texture i took from the SGM model.

      while i made “Sputnik” i evaluated a own simple method to unify the ship specs

      thrust = function(grav,tara)
      return math.floor(grav * 9806.65 * tara)

      this is in front (“00_thrust_calc.lua”) of a ll shipspecs and makes it formost easier to know in advance hoe many G’s it will be
      due to that you reach always beautiful round values.

      what” Tara” means i don’t have to explain and grav is the desired acceleration in G for a empty ship.
      as tara i sum the hulmass and the weich of a ladden fuel tank, that’s fair, one could also take the naked ship or the ladden weight
      it will result in a different grade of let’s say speed (acceleration, but of course it speeds up the game also).
      to take the ladden weight is not to recommend because the ships will be very unrealistic when empty
      to take only the hull mass will result in a very lame ship when you like to go to the lowest acceptable limit, even when the fuel mass is ony a tenth of the hull mass.
      thus i decided to add the fuel tank mass to what is “Tara”.
      in front of each ship spec i declare also the final scale i used for this ship
      the bounding radius multiplied with the scale
      and call the above function with my desired values
      and that shit works well
      you just enter your G’s and exactly this will be shown in the games ship roster
      the radius i use as factor for the angular thrust, that’s maybe not accurate but it works out well

      `local scale = 1.2
      local radius = 18*scale
      –tara = hull_mass + fuel_tank_mass
      local tara = 30
      local main = thrust(10,tara)
      local reverse = thrust(10,tara) –not needed for this ship but to show it
      local lateral = thrust(5,tara)

      define_ship {
      forward_thrust = main,
      reverse_thrust = reverse,
      up_thrust = reverse, — usually lateral
      down_thrust = reverse, — dito
      left_thrust = lateral,
      right_thrust = lateral,
      angular_thrust = lateral*radius,`

      whatever system you decide if you keep it in your game it will result in a balanced and easy to control ship setup
      since this ship is that weak it’s allowed for it to use the same values as for main/reverse thrust for to lift.

    • #110289


      this oldtimer i just had to grab out of a old mod
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/Phoenix/screenshot-20170412-165803_zpsyo7pzqke.png “”)

      it was just a bit a puzzle to find out which texture tiles belong to which shape, because i try to take as much as possible from a repository
      instead to have for eachship many different, recently it depends on the state of the remnants if i have a combined texture i use this even if it’s abit hard
      with scripted projections to find the right section, but i have some experience and it could also be planned.
      but if i have the right texture tiles ready i won’t change that it saves me a lot of work.

    • #110290

      Thanks Gernot I’ll take a look at the code and see if it makes a difference on ours ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #110291

      Ok I checked, that change shouldn’t produce any difference when there’s a star, but it will when there isn’t a star.
      Basically that comment means that its the end of the section that deals with lighting “#else NUM_LIGHTS > 0” so that code isn’t used on planets with a star.

      *phew* glad that’s the case!
      I think it made some sense for the rendering to boost emmisive rather than diffuse because otherwise on star-less planets you’d be able to see the planet clearly, but with emissive it just makes it glow a little bit as though it’s lit by (distant) starlight only.

    • #110292

      Anyway, good luck with the Pheonix project ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #110293


      your’e right, i couldn’t see any difference – i could swear… but who knows maybe it was gettin’ a little late…or early in the morning.
      and if i woud have looked right at the script i should have noticed that.

    • #110304

      Hi Gernot! I’m thrilled that you’re working on this again.
      I just watched Menace from Outer Space. It’s not half bad. Well it is actually half bad, which means it’s also half good. The special effects were fairly good for television in 1954. I thought that the Orbit Jet spaceship might give you some inspiration.
      I just tried to upload some screenshots from my hard drive like we used to do and found out I can’t anymore. I’ll upload them to my Dropbox and post them later.

    • #110311

      yes a lot has changed, it’s a quite more basic system as before.

      therefore to post YT clips it has get easier you have now only to paste the link YT outputs when you press “share”.


      however, your link pointed to this page

      can a dropbox link be used to display a picture?
      i just ask bacause i can’t use links from my cloud to present a picture, i have to use a link from photobucket or similar
      because i’m bored by the adverts in photobucket it starts to annoy me, i accept thet the free access is payed by
      advertisers but the popups are a very agressive way and i feel you don’t reach your goal with this
      because am i interested in someones service or product if he annoys me?
      but perhaps they have enough subscribers and just like to get rid of the ballast.

    • #110312

      instead to ask such stupid questions, let’s try it

      ![](https://photos-6.dropbox.com/t/2/AACy014Yutu3VV8mMD1JicmZTOvxpJKU74dgIm5xasuVZA/12/663559735/jpeg/32×32/1/_/1/2/fe2-4a.jpg/EPGG2LQFGAEgBygH/4rBee_kh5MZFTkrBdpvddrqTmpsfzjO-o3jn3z48aKU?size=32×32&size_mode=5 “”)

      ha, it works
      but you have to display the graphic in dropbox rightclick on it and select “copy graphics adress”, this link will work
      if you just select the shortened link dropbox offers you it won’t work to display the graphic outside of dropbox.

      i hope this is no abuse

      because i found i new place where i can stuff my screenshots and whatever without annoying adverts, that’s great!

    • #110313

      It’s later. That TV movie was cobbled together from several episodes of the “Rocky Jones, Space Ranger” series. The Orbit Jet is a tail-sitter. You’ve made those before. It has no retros as far as I could tell. I can’t figure out how to show the pictures, but here’s some links.
      That dark area that looks like a cockpit window is not. The ship has a viewscreen. In this last pic they’ve landed and are using the viewscreen to spy on some villainy.

    • #110314
    • #110315

      certainly i like the tailsitters and yes it would suit a project like phoenix to go retro in design
      but i guess to make them really functional the source had to be changed, in principles i guess it’s just to define if it’s a tailsitter to change the forward axis from Z to Y (or the up axis vice versa) for the camera and the flight system.

      i would really appreciate that, it would be a cool option to the modern ships and requires a lot of experience to maneuver such a vessel even still when “up is up”.

      certainly i can revive the “atomic 1” or try to build a ship like you showed, but unless such a change either the orientation is wrong and a autopilot won’t work (which isn’t so bad) plus that you get confused by forward and up
      or the ship will be no tailsitter and is oriented horizontally.

      i would like a range of tailsitters ๐Ÿ™‚
      for such it would be worth to redesign the whole game and throw out all what is “modern” only retro design but not only in appearance even though in handling.

      sort a 30’s to 50’s retro design, i can imagine this also well for the architecture, which is another point to work on the source
      i have no idea how far pioneer is with such, however you know it’s a “must” to separate between hostile and outdoor worlds
      for the architecture and the stations, that’s also why i used for sputnik mostly existing old because this has to be made before i start to build any more buildings and types like we had i miss even since long, the cities are to less orderly and if you enable i.e. something exclusive like a church you get 50 churches in return. and still i have the idea ready to build a city from city tiles
      similar like in old FE2/FFE, it would for outdoor worlds result in better cities, while for hostile worlds and moons a scattered appearance fits well if the buildings won’t be common unsealed outdoor architecture. here and there something which rakes out of the terrain is reasonable for a city on a moon the most will be under the surface. it is usually not funny when it’s night on a hostile world (it’s damned dark then) and at daytime you need really beefy welding goggles.

      the paragon is there, it’s called Frontier and simple or not it solves this problem well (hostile / outdoor architecture).

      a space battle with tailsitters and no reverse thrust and very low lateral thrust, i wonder how such a jousting will work out.
      certainly not like in the movies
      it will be extremly difficult to hit at all i guess, but it will be the same for the opponent, point on the enemy and fire
      both can’t move much just like two overarmed horses and their knights.
      and don’t forget to dodge out
      else you end as space debris

    • #110316
    • #110317

      these viewscreens from the past was magical devices, you could watch on them every scene, every place, from every desired angle and all this without to use something like a drone.
      and it presented always the important things to watch at the right time.
      just like ming who watches every desired angle of his worlds to control his people, when you look at a control room just for something common like a city tunnel, you realise soon that it’s impossible for a human to watch all simultaneous. and that’s just a single object not 100 or just one world to control.

      looks like i have to watch the movie hm? i have enough time why not.
      because i don’t know which alien building, yes but you know the lmr don’t expect to much.

      but right yesterday i “dreamed” of architecture, it moves me since a while also for FFED3D, i should do more for it in the next time also to learn from it in detail how the cities are constructed.

      of course i know “how”, but not what could be i.e. a useful tagging to group buildings.

      of course FFE and FE2 had a advantage due to far less powerful machines and of shading was not to think of, thus the terrain is like we had in a unshaded pioneer and you won’t notice if a building (set) doesn’t stands on the ground if you don’t rough land close to it.
      the physical terrain and the displayed aren’t the same exactly and a city is leveled by the station if one side is underground and the other 50m above doesn’t matters.

      we can’t have such in on a shaded terrain and buildings or building tiles have to be levelled to the terrain
      or and i feel it’s the only real option, the terrain must be flattened to create a acceptable outdoor worlds city
      for hostile worlds i see this different, they even don’t need such tiles because you won’t have parks or landmarks except a
      “gee that’s a ugly antenna”.
      it start’s already to get to a problem for FFED3D because the terrain is shaded and you see the differences unlike in the original.
      i can live with this for FFED3D because these are the conditions for this game, i can’t and neither i would change them.

      i realy thought already to do the vice versa for FFED3D and instead to work with the city tiles to remove them, just to see how that will look, the arrangement of the buildings will be the same, just there won’t be no streets or such, but neither it will be that obvious that they probably stand 50m above the surface. also the different shading is a problem, the tiles are flat but the terrain is not and even when i remove the specularity from them they will be shaded different as the surrounding terrain. streets i could use from the tiles, while on the other hand sometimes they don’t fit to the buildings and some buildings might stand in the middle of the road.
      the tiles are designed intelligent this i have to say and however you rotate them or arrange them they always fit near to seamless to each other. of course neither that’s a big thing in principles you just have to determine first where the connecting

      but yes, “alien building” sounds good.
      what i see for phoenix are rather simple buildings, made of primitives and basta, things like the domes on hostile worlds in FE2,
      a couple of them and a couple of antennas plus a entry to a underground starport will look most reasonable.
      if that starport could be build instead to use a single design is to think about.

      because if you would build it systematical it could range from a single landing pad/hangar to a large station, “city” in the way a city is build won’t exist, it would be like a web of buildings.

      and instead to use the seed to scatter the buildings over the landscape it would make far more sense to use it to construct such a station which will look different on near to each hostile world, conditions have to be respected, temparature is not the only thing to respect, and i know it would be possible, also to tell which range of atmosphere is acceptable for a outdoor world not to have outdoor cities in a argon atmosphere, hardly i can imagine to walk around there without a pressure suit and my needed oxygen.
      not everything must be respected it’s acceptable i.e. if this outdoorworld has a gravity of 5G or more and a respective high airpressure even if that neither would be a condition to live in or even if that is a vulcanic world as long as there is some oxygene. halfways reasonable would be already a great thing.

      instead to scatter it randomly to struct it respecting the conditions we know we will find by the meaning of same numbers draw always the same number.

      though from my ward a couple of cylinders can look more “alien” as what i can imagine in my wildest dreams.

      “alien” depends anyway on what sort of alien you expect and we haven’t real alien races in pioneer, it’s to think about hidden artefacts this i think could be a great anker to build missions around.

      what could we expect? some rejected the idea at all and decided to leave it up to the imagination of the rerader / viewer.
      will they look like a trees stump with a dish helmet like head and rather fragile limbs which stick out of the stump by need?
      or will it be a reptile?
      i guess both will have their very specific architecture and we can only speculate what is pleasing for a reptile not to talk about living stubs.

      the last novel from heinlein i’ve read featured “living stubs” as creatures from mars.
      it’s i guess i told it already, a different sci-fi, no space battles and such, but i guess the story would work fine for these days.
      because it’s about a actor and you won’t like his personality, he stinks he thinks he’s the best and just not enough honored for his outraking talent. he completely dislikes aliens, he has no real reason for this but he hates them, he thinks they smell ugly and have no manners (it might remind us of something). due to circumstances he “falls into the hands” of a couple of space pilots, traders, people whichs daily work is to make a little profit with interplanetary cargo runs. their interest is to have good contacts to whatever race, they don’t mind about race as long as they can make a little profit. they formed a political movement even though true space pilots hate politics, but things in their world have changed and ppl look suspective at alien races. our protagonist is exactly such a common human which hates aliens but he didn’t even know why.
      how the story goes on and i alrerady suspected it, he had to pick a very special role and play the double for the leader of this movement, he disliked the job (the actor) but also he is a man of truth and deal is deal, i have to make it. he ends up in space where didn’t liked to end up, he visited mars and the imperator (which is a human and complete different as one expects). he had to play the role of his life and mind washed (he had to learn in hypnose every detail of his role) or not he starts to think different about what is alien.

      in the beginning i thought it’s a bit a lame story, but when i closed the book, i had to say brillant way to transport the message.
      you first dislike the protagonist
      then you start to understand his point of view, you accept that he’s a opportunist and that he has his reasons for this to be.
      then he has to change his point of view because he learned it is wrong.
      and that one as soon as he feels he is responsible for his friends because he made for the first time real friends will start to think different. people who really respected him not only applauded and threw a few dollars in his hat, who would give their life to protect him because they need his special talent to reach their goal.

      he disliked it completely that a software has selected him and a second one, the fact that it was a stupid machine and the fact that this machine was that presumptuous to select even a second one who should be as good as him.
      neither he felt that this will be a role to play, “i’m no lookalike, that’s a idiots job”.
      but, who knows this machine seems to be very clever ๐Ÿ˜‰ because exactly the fact that he has a challenger or just the idea that there could be one as good as him has moved him finally to make the contract with the space pilots, and of course the need of bread.
      obvious that this challanger never existed and was a just a catalyst which was used by the the clever space pilot.
      when in space he even realised this and he wasn’t pleased to be fooled that easy, by a space pilot (you have to see them as something common humans don’t like and don’t respect much, the typical rough space pilot we know from old sci-fi, doesn’t talks much, acts first asks later etc. one would say uneducated or at least uncultivated, but cultivated enough to respect the different races like his own)
      “shit, now i’m in space, i dind’t wanted to be here, never, but i have to make the best out of the situation”.

      it points a light on what is culture and how to treat different races and this i like much, i like how this message is transported by the way of a protagonist who’s character you dislike, instead to take one you will like from the beginning on.
      you learn to review your point of view while he learns to review his.

    • #110318

      there is more which amused or amazed me,
      it’s for me the oldest novel in which something like a light sabre is used.
      easy possible that it had been “invented” before, but it’s a novel from the 40’s i guess and this makes it quite early for this weapon.
      also and obviously it’s less a weapon as it is a piece of evidence for honorabilty, that someone who carries such a weapon isn’t a common beeing. it’s a, how else, alien invention by the marsians the ugly smelling stubs in this story.
      i think it’s worth to look at the society heinlein draws for them and the reason behind.
      we learned they are stubs and that’s what they are, a sort of plants. they have no sex to reprodeuce themself like our nature works.
      their nature only reproduces through subsidiary i guess is the right term. the “families” as far as this is the right term are better described as breeds, they are all of the same “blood”, genes in other words, due to the fact that they are subsidiaries. it’s queationable if such would work, a evolution without splitting and mutation, but we let this aside it’s about society not about evolution. this special nature needs a special culture that such breeds can live together without to have continous racial wars. in the story this was the case for the marsians for many centuries and they found a probate way to manage this and this is by a very stiff codex. everything must be done after this codex only this grants them peace. now we come to this culture and we start to trade with them and have our very own culture which is based on individualism – which is extremely different to their which is to them approved by centuries (interesting parallels no?).

      and of course you find as less alien friendly marsians as you find alien friendly humans.
      nonetheless the imagined leader of these space farers has this honor to wear such a weapon because due to his steady effort in understanding between the cultures which a true marsian who knows why the codex is so stiff must honor.
      this “redneck” managed it to get “brother” of a honorable marsian … tribe, brotherhood one must say it’s never one, one is many of them.
      and due to circumstances this “redneck” squeezed out the brain of one of the subsidiaries of exactly his “brother breed”.
      and still he knows that they will be friends, how can this be?
      they might have the same genes, they are not just “the same blood”, subsidiaries, nonetheless each subsidiary has his own personality has lived his own live and must not think and feel the same as another subsidiary.
      and that’s the thought of the protagonist and the thought of the reader,
      “what greatness it needs to leave aside that he is me and was murdered by a human, but i can see that it was needed and that my subsidiary had the wrong goals”.
      that this subsidiary not only injured a ancient codex, that this codex is to respect even for alien lifeforms and is to weight higher as the life of my own subsidiary (me).

      we have a different codex and it includes individualism or to tell it right individualism we believe is the key to a society in peace if “…we give us following constitution”.

      and this “constitution” is to weight higher as my own life (and it stands in no relation to a value of gold or gems) and it values for all “thinking beings”, if that sounds pathetic of me or not.

      now (caugh), that’s why i think the story fits so well to 2017.

      however you like to write the story a true space farer knows how to decide or for what he has to fight.
      and yes certainly he likes to make profit that’s his job, but not every price he must be willing to pay for this.
      and what i even liked in relation to 2017, these space traders hate trading laws, it’s not to their profit. it hinders trading if this and that law hinders me in trading a good, and it’s not because this good would be illegal, because someone takes profit out of the situation that it is ballasted with high import taxes. if that is good for a society is questionable.

      “That was a real horrotrip Flash”
      “Mungo is only fantasy Dale, but what happens on Earth is reality”

    • #110320

      another sort of architecture i changed for phoenix and i guess it’s a good change, i have only one “handwritten” system in the game, sol, the rest is generated, sometimes “forced generated” if i like to force to have a inhabited system but never scripted.
      “i would like if every system would be procedural generated, but you have the possibility to script one”
      well i like it even generated.
      the 100 and one factions i left but i reduced them to tiny kingdoms of 1 to a handful of systems, equal to the systems you find in frontier which are treatened special, communistic, dictatorships, plutocratic, all this sort of societies is limited to these generated factions with a high chance for illegal goods of all sorts even textiles ๐Ÿ˜‰ “it’s forbidden in our kingdom to wear any clothes”, due to that some rich idiot will pay a high price to wear socks in his cellar. therefore you won’t find these political systems in any of the established factions, i guess already this changes a lot for a future gameplay. recently a political faction hasn’t a homogene appearance means recently in such a tiny faction even if all systems are plutocratic the list of illigal goods varies and i think it shouldn’t or not that much, it’s a dictatorship of whatever sort and certainly the laws will be the same in such a small faction.
      there is no if and when in a dictatorship neither a eventually.
      also i recognized that i changed back then the default system or independent faction, it has no homeworld usually, but due to that you find independent systems through the whole galaxy, that’s far to much. the whole galaxy inhabitet by humans in 1000 years?
      never! you can define “sol” even as homeworld for the independant, which would be a fact, pioneer is inhabited by humans and they come all from earth. recently pioneer “don’t likes that” and toggles in the systemmap between federation and independant but it stays a federated system. but i guess such is to fix, it’s far better if the default faction has a limit besides from that it is more reasonable. and i’m sure it can be done in a better way as to give this faction a homeworld resp. the same as for the federation.
      strangewisely, no obviously if you give the independant another system as sol as homeworld they will suppress the federation and all other because of their high grow rate which is reasonable resp. needed for this faction.
      but if it’s the same system the default stays in background and doesn’t competes with the other factions.
      default is in the recent case only independant and disorder as political system, therefore disorder is limited to independant systems.
      to me that is very reasonable, all other systems which belong to a faction of any sort will have a order, the order of the faction they belong to. exclusions are ok, but exclusions are exclusions and not the usus and still can be scripted resp. invoked.

    • #110322

      I’m running Firefox with uBlock and NoScript so I don’t see the ads on Dropbox. Maybe I’m cheating them, but it improves the experience. I called that building “alien” because it was built by the people of Fornax, an inhabited moon of Jupiter that’s full of ~~Dilithium~~ crystals. They look just like us, but they might be blue or green. It’s hard to tell in B/W. It’s as silly as it sounds but not quite as silly as Flash Gordon.

    • #110323

      **no ads on dropbox, no.**

      photobucket is what annoys me, or started to.

      and it’s good to have a new place to store my screenshots or other things.

      interesting, i never tried similar with my onedrive, i tried once and the shortened link didn’t worked thus i tried never again.
      yesterday i asked you (resp. myself) if that will work, because i knew a shortened link won’t work.

      thus i gave it a try.

      by the way let’s see if that works with onedrive to
      ![](https://bn1305files.storage.live.com/y4pA4M0sERrHMbrKw1jtIeKNLL4LPiuDjtPFhcPX4P-D3iQe1Lco0U-PvPzwHZ9xFfH6_RrXUmMkFMR9q9Y8ZMpifbARINrc0Whf1WjAgFfSswcfIF-cfjqpoy71BzSc8ryOmvNcCGbiuAkQ5KcD1cfNDJkFhxYgJoJq_om6i9Ln9IUR7_r7UbyX2FvtI5YkUvn/newhope1.jpg?psid=1&width=319&height=200 “”)

      ha, i guess the format plays a role to, a .bmp wasn’t accepted here, but this .jpg works.

      but i guess i prefere dropbox over onedrive for such, it’s even more complicated to get to a link with witch you can display a picture outside of the cloud.

      in principles i feel this can’t be in the interest of the provider, they advertise at least for them self, not active, but already due to that that you have a account. usually or this would be the idea i guess, people who like to view your pictures had to follow to your cloud and will notice the “brand”, that’s advertisement enough if they come to the cloud.

      but in this way they won’t even notice where the source is stored.

      but well i guess that’s not my business as long as they are my pictures.

    • #110324

      yes, yes, i will watch the movie ๐Ÿ˜‰

      because erm, i still don’t know what building you mean, i can’t browse through your cloud
      except you link the directory, that is for your safety.

      if you link a single object a viewer is not allowed to browse,
      if you link a directory he’s allowed to watch only the content of this directory.

      i think dropbox manages this even better as onedrive
      i even can tell on dropbox “view only” and a guest isn’t allowed to do anything except to view the files.
      if i’m right i can on onedrive only tell it’s accessable or not and if you have access you can also delete it i.e.
      and if i’m wrong then it’s at least better described in dropbox how to select this option.

    • #110325

      Can you not see the picture of the building? It shows on this page for me. I hope you enjoy Rocky Jones. I did.

    • #110326

      do i need glasses? (erm, yes) no (?) here (?)


      no doesn’t helps.

      “It shows on this page for me” where?

      i this post?

      “Abuse? Not at all! Thanks for the lesson. ๐Ÿ˜€ How’s this for an alien building? It’s from the same movie.”

      there is nothing to see for me,

      vice versa do you see my posted screenshots?
      i mean i even didn’t know if they show up for others.

      one is a courier in front of a wheel station
      and the other a scenery from pioneer with a interceptor from me on it.

      because i really see no picture of a building here.

    • #110329


      i logged myself out and yes i could see my posted screenshots.

    • #110330
    • #110331

      i have a new idea for a lmr function
      a parametric shape creator
      i have a slight i dea how to make that and the reason is simple
      it’s a brainf*** to make bezier shapes
      and even if you are routined you still have to enter a lot of vectors.
      but such a shape engine could make it a lot easier to create a bezier shape
      of course it won’t have sliders like in a cad with a graphical interface
      but it will simplyfie it already if you can draw a shape, measure it and use only a couple of really needed points.

      also about the uv projection i thought.
      it’s stupid to dump a model open it in a cad and project the mesh, that doesn’t suits the lmr
      i could use the the obj instead to make this detour.
      but i don’t wan’t to use .obj or a cad, it’s a option one can use as mod.
      thus i thought if that would be to reach i with the modelviewer
      to simply project the mesh from given angles, this would suit the system.
      not because i need the data of the projection, because i need eventually or would appreciate
      a 2D projection of the mesh on a image to start a texture.
      and if i have to use a projection i scripted in advance to export such it’s still a good thing.
      such a projection is easy and could be unified, even called with a function.

      another option to make it a lot easier would be a layout
      of course it won’t fit all ships, but i can anyway only project from a given angle,
      this layout will be sectioned in the views/projections, i’m aware i can only project each object/shape once
      the sheme you could even use for any part of the ship or otherwise.
      the size of a texture is always 1:1 no matter if 1024×1024 or 32×32
      thus you could always use the same data except for the scale, but the scale is to calculate.
      if you know, and when you script a model i assume you know this, how your object/shape is dimensioned
      you know the scale which is to use for this section of the texture.

      even for this i could write a function which will help to find the scale for a given section of the texture.

      but it’s no big help i guess, a 2D projection on a image would help far more.

    • #110332

      So only I can see the picture of the building? That’s odd, I followed your instructions and I can see it in my comment. I can see one of your pictures. It looks like an Imperial Hunter near an Arco building on a planet that looks like New Hope in the Epsilon Eridani system. If anyone else is reading this, can you see the images?

    • #110333

      I just had a thought. My pictures are .png format. Maybe that doesn’t work for your OS. I’ll try converting them to .jpg tomorrow.

    • #110335
    • #110336

      erm still i can’t see a picture you posted,
      but therefore i watched rocky jones and i’m a little bit wiser now ๐Ÿ™‚

      try once to log out of ssc and return to the forum without to log in,
      your’e a stranger then and can make proof this way if someone else could see them

      i’m not sure what causes it, strangewisely when…
      ![](https://photos-6.dropbox.com/t/2/AACXF7jQj5yc-IXIt4H-onT3cnk27f0cnVA_yY86LlTCUA/12/658544971/png/32×32/3/1492372800/0/2/Screenshot%20from%202017-04-13%2019%3A48%3A55.png/EOj8z64FGBggAigC/HYvdY9-0oMleamSrgjk1jZED-0rFig45kK3hB0X9wHQ?dl=0&size=1600×1200&size_mode=3 “”)

      yes i can see your picture when i post it even as a “stranger”

      and the format i should have remembered it is usally .png .jpg or .gif for the web

      and if that buildings in the episode you linked then i assume i’ve seen it.
      no big deal no, and yes that’s what i thought when i saw it “a bit like those irregular blocks from ffe”.
      if one likes it really simple, a extrusion with the frontview as polygon to extrude.
      extrusions to extrude a different shape as a quadric haven’t been used much, but it’s a good way to create a body
      with sides from three on up to as much you like, as much sides as the polygon has.
      the drawback or advantage to i.e. a cylinder is that the sides are flat shaded and it has sharp corners, split vertices in other terms.
      ideal for a eight sided building i.e., because it won’t have rounded corners.

      of course if you build the building from single quads you have the advantage to project each quad single on the texture
      while a cylinder or extrusion you can only project the whole body from one side, but you know this.

    • #110337
    • #110338

      This is really strange. I logged out and could still see my pictures and yours. I hope somebody else comments on this.
      Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the movie.

    • #110339

      “i’m not sure what causes it, strangewisely when…

      yes i can see your picture when i post it even as a “stranger””

      that’s vanished now (?)

      ok, well i said it’s uncommon maybe not wanted to do this, i guess to be sure it works i will have to depend on photobucket or another picture service.

      to link to album (directory) or a file it’s still a good thing to have cloudspace.

      probably but i’m not sure, the link is quite long when you do it in this way and contains information which is ment to scale the picture on dropbox and other data, probably either this causes the problems or which is also possible the “rubbish” is removed automated, it get’s parsed and the link is no longer valid.

      i would recommend to use someelse place to display screenshots from

      perhaps i find a good free one which i can use myself in the near future

    • #110340

      i guess i found one, it’s a german picture host service and adfree….

      i thought even google pictures would work but it didn’t

      looks like there’s reason why [https://picload.org/](https://picload.org/https://picload.org/”)
      calls himself barrierfree.

      but if you don’t like a german hoster i’m sure you will find another,
      google knows i live in switzerland and this was one of the first suggestions
      though if you enter “free picture hoster” it will be for sure located near you.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcawcddr/bildschirmfoto2012-04-25um11.0.jpg “”)

      it’s ment for this – it works best for this

    • #110342

      Picload looks promising, but I’m thinking this shouldn’t be this complicated. I’m going to ask in the screenshot thread how others are posting pictures.

    • #110361

      i think that’s a good idea,

      i’ve made two new ships, the first is named “Badger” and might remind of the FE2/FFE Transporter also the capacity is about the same.
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriila/screenshot-20170420-185852.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriill/screenshot-20170420-185917.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriili/screenshot-20170420-190052.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriilw/screenshot-20170420-190316.png “”)

    • #110362

      the second is a quick one made from primitives, saucerstyle “Interceptor” (yet another?)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriicr/screenshot-20170421-052701.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriica/screenshot-20170421-052745.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriicl/screenshot-20170421-053122.png “”)

    • #110363

      very small update to the Badger, i wasn’t satisfied with the landing gear / engine pods texture, resp. cuboids are bad to texture
      thus i made cube form quads and changed the texture.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriwci/screenshot-20170421-064912.png “”)

    • #110366

      **”the worlds smallest (underground) spaceport”**

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclogciw/screenshot-20170422-032358.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclogcpr/screenshot-20170422-032447.png “”)

      it existed before made from wavefront objects, this is a new geometry from scratch, i didn’t took any look at the existing old model.
      the principle is clear
      a small spaceport which allows only for small ships to dock on (later this could be sorted by population instead to assign spaceports randomly,
      little pop – smaller spaceport and vice versa.

      it’s not yet finished, it needs a own texture.
      the dock is a cube of ~ 20m sidelength though only fighters have space enough.

      i guess it’s possible to launch with any size of ship since collision detection is disabled while docking,
      but to land a large ship isn’t possible because you will collide before the docking procedure starts.

      i could this make even more difficult with a fence or simple boundary sticks likewise i used for the old model.

      in principles it could be extendet to 3 docking bays, but i guess for the “tiny port” one dock is enough, if occupied your’e out.
      anyway a single spaceport large or small is needed to create situations like the well known of “Scirocco Station” or “Amundsen” of FE2.
      “all bays full” and only one city and one spaceport.
      mission failed!
      next time you will be more precautious or well take the risk, probably it’s free next time or later (in pioneer the ships don’t stay to long).

    • #110368

      This picture of the Atomic 1 just came up as wallpaper on my computer.
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcllarlw/247833data571.png “”)
      It’s a beautiful piece of work. I got used to flying it but I felt uncomfortable in that cockpit up there. Vuzz made this screenshot from Genesia. Many of your models are there, and I have some early Pioneer alphas if you want them.

    • #110370

      OK, we can cal this ship also “Atomic 1” but i guess i named it once “Stardust”, erm the name doesn’t soinds special but it’s to me.
      “The Stardust” was featured in if i remember right the first series of sci-fi novels from the authors of “Perry Rhodan”.
      what i liked most was a spaceship with a “wreck orchestra”. sometinhg i always sounding from the engnes to the struts.
      never mind the “atomix 1” or X1 is a simple cigar.

      i can imagine that you won’t feel well in this cockpit, one must imagine that the seats position is controlled by a gyroscope.

      somehow a nice model, but it won’t find it’s way into “phoenix”, except as a mod, the project itself will contain only scripted models.
      there is a wide range of ships i could reuse.

      yes i still hold several old builds myself, thus none of the older ships is lost, only about a month of work i lost from “Sputnik”,
      but as it looks i have
      a) recovered a lot
      b) rebuilded old and builded some new ships

      is that tailsitter working,
      or have i cheated (i guess) with the landing gear animation (the ship goes in horizontal alignment when retracting the lg)?

      your overworked landing pads and the orbital spacestations are recently out, they need to be overhauled i guess.

      old and forgotten ships (foreign):
      Large Galactical Cruiser (greyoxide if i remember right, only for the basic model, the final version i put together, it was ment as a example for a modular ship,
      you would only buy parts of the ship to ugrade it from a relatively small ship, only the head section, to a large cruiser)
      Talon Fighter (s20dan)
      Boa (s20dan)
      Panther (caribou – s20dan)
      Hammerhead (s20dan, this i like best of him, it’s a unique ship)
      Imp. Explorer (s20dan)
      Ghoul (SolCommand)

      more or less

      the “unique” ships i will probably use, wherefore the FE2/FFE ships will be for sure placed in a FFE mod to reflect not only the ships of FFE.

      the goal of Phoenix is to work only with scripts, therefore i aded a lot of helper functions to make that somewhat easier and i’m still working on it,
      functions will be added as soon as i feel “this process could be simplyfied”, then i write a new one or change a existing function or sub-model to my needs.
      something very handy, i should have made this long ago, mirror vector x,y,z
      first i started with a simple mirror_x to make scripting vectors a little easier

      `mirx = function(vector)
      return v(vector.x * -1,vector.y,vector.z)

      you enter a vector and the data will be mirrored along x axis, very handy
      later and i don’t no why i don’t made this rightaway i added
      “miry” and “mirz”

      vectors for a cube look now like this:
      v0 = v(2.5,-2.5,2.5)
      v1 = mirx(v0)
      v2 = mirz(v0)
      v3 = mirz(v1)
      v4 = miry(v2)
      v5 = mirx(v4)
      v6 = miry(v0)
      v7 = mirx(v6)

      of course i coud use “cuboid” to create a smple cuboid but “cuboid” you can only texture the whole object from one direction.
      however that’s one of the most handy functions and saves a lot of time.

      i also completed the “materials list”, i started this out wih “sputnik” and it was left uncompleted, i looked at it, found out what i made wrong
      back then and have now a material table to select a predefinied maerial from.
      that’s also very handy and additionally keeps the materials used the same through the whole game

      instead to **** up your brain what material specs you need you simply enter get_material(matlist.steel) as example.
      probably, but this i have to check first i can even register the used material when i call the function, this would even help
      instead to declare each time the “materials” in the info section.

      one but i guess i presented this long ago, solved your problem with the string length in station names

      `autoscale_text = function(size,offset,string_input)
      return size*offset / math.max(offset,string.len(string_input))

      very simple, it just scales a text to a given count of glyphs
      “size” is the maximum scale for the text
      “offset” the length in glyphs with this scale or i other terms the space i have
      “string_input” is the names string itself i.e. “Marcel’s Hideout”

      “offset” & “string” will finally influence the scale no matter what “maximum scale” is, maximum defines only the scale for the 7 glyphs of “Pioneer”
      this to check in the modelviewer the size of the text, at offset 7 the space you need is exactly like the label “Pioneer”
      you can vary this a little by using a different offset, i.e. 10, now 10 is the limit and the size will be kept in the length of 10 glyphs i the given scale.

      now it wont matter if the station/city is named
      it will have enough space it only gets quite tiny with such a long name.

      not that long but quite longer as “pioneer”

      “Chalatnikow Newtown”
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcllwdgw/screenshot-20170422-223813.png “”)

      you can still download alpha releases from upon alpha9, sources at least, builds i don’t know they won’t get that far back i guess.
      but also buids form this time i still hold i.e. “bob the builder (alpha9 & 10)”.

      it’s just a mess and certain builds are in my storage, some in the downloads folder and some are along with the Pioneer i’m working with and some
      are in the folder for the project(s).

      many things i had fortunately bunkered on my mom’s macbook. unfortunatly not the latest build of “Sputnik”, just a compiled release which i never published
      but it misses a lot i made later and i can’t run it on my 32bitXP because it was made on a win7x64.
      this compiled project and the remnants on my HD i used to start “Phoenix”.

      the next step would be checking the “old” build for changes i made (some) and compiling a new build for “Phoenix”, including the small lchanges.
      recently i’m not very lucky with compiling a alpha31because several files in the “pioneer_thirdparty” repo (alpha31) are broken.
      the new repo won’t work because it has changed a lot since then and old repo’s aren’t available (well one should have thought of this, you can download
      surces down to alpha9 but you can’t find a matching thirdparty” repo, thus it’s useless).
      older builds had the repo in the source but from a certain release on they split the thirdparty repo from the source.
      i found a old fork from “philbywizz” which is alpha31 and he included the repo. probably but i haven’t tried it yet,
      i can use this repo or i can use it at least to replace the broken files in mine (some files and even some scripts i recovered have only garbled content).

      for some reasons i would lke to get back to alpha9, if it would be possible even more, mainly because the changes in the AI
      also for easyness of scripting missions, it was a lot easier, dirty programmed as robn said but well good to understand for a human what each module does.
      further no need to respect languages which complicates the thing uselessly, i prefere english since aeons to play frontier or even pioneer, German? i think it sounds stupid for a space game, no i don’t need i don’t want.

      “ahhh, we have a Pioneer in thousend languages, but well we speak in the forum only english (there was a german thread once)”
      so what? (what for are they good, except to make more and even more work to do?).

      however i have the sources and have access to GitHub though i can compare changes, which have been made since that.

      it’s sad that i can’t play any of the new releases of pioneer and this was what i always warned of even when i had a win7x64
      “don’t forget the poor dudes which can’t afford a new machine, not everybody has a high wage, some have to work physically hard and get “nothing” for it”

      it should run now on old machines, but as usual it doesn’t (how could i be proof of that it will run if i don’t own such a old machine?
      theoretically won’t help – theoretically i could be a billionair but i ain’t. what counts, yes i told this a 100 times before, is praxis not theory)
      does it work?
      then it doesn’t works no matter the theory.

      this hasn’t changed snc a couple of years, you as user ask for something and in return you get a “theoretically…”, instead that they track the problem,
      or give you the feeling to be taken serious.

      no means no and not probably!
      if it fails it fails!
      a bad is a bad!

    • #110371

      what isn’t bad is this,
      i worked a little on my singleport station and i guess it turned out well for a scripted model.

      single and underground
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcllwdrr/screenshot-20170422-223853.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcllirgr/screenshot-20170422-211032.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcllirga/screenshot-20170422-211128.png “”)

      you won’t collide with the terrain because while the docking procedure runs the collision checking is disabled
      of course you can see for a brief moment the terrain, resp. the ship sinks into the ground viewed from above
      but to me this doesn’t matters much, a subterranean station matters more and the next will be a 3 port similar to FE2.
      and if i ever get it sorted out how to predefine a “outdoor world”‘s city/station, then i can even seperate the “hostile” from the common “groundstations”.
      which would mean such underground stations would be placed only on hostile planets.

      the next model i already started is a rebuild of the “big wheel” i posted a coule of years ago (remember that?),
      the model is one of the lost ones i can’t find that anymore.
      that’s quite sad.

      old screenshots:
      the large tube variation of the “big wheel” (scripted version, not to confuse with the “big wheel” i made in blender once, this still exists but it’s a “solid” model i wan’t use for “Phoenix”. apart from that it would be to large for pioneer, but read later how this can be bypassed).
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/PIONEER/ScreenShot_136_zpsff68e96c.jpg “”)

      the wheel itself
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/PIONEER/screenshot-20140910-060805_zps793b637c.jpg “”)

      and the small port variation
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/PIONEER/screenshot-20140911-170839_zpsbe534a7c.jpg “”)

      it’s at least good to have the screenshots rom “sputnik”, it gives me a idea how it looked,
      further i’m not sure if i will make such a large tube again, the polycount was horrible for this monster object,
      also i had to trick pioneer to make it work,
      i case for he tube i had to move the station 300m in back of the releasing collision check (quad), strangewisely else the docking procedure failed.

      later and that was a different test and had nothing to do with sputnik
      i rebuilded the “orbital city” from FFE (i.e. Mars Station)
      this object is extremely giant and it won’t work in this size for pioneer (a size limit? why? to avoid lunacy or what?)
      but it helped when i made a collision mesh only for the front part of the huge station, the rest has no collision mesh and due to that “no size”.

      spacestations have to be made new for “phoenix” since the largest ship you can buy has a diameter of ~100m, which won’t fit into the “spacestation entry”
      recently only the naked “big crappy” is present to have one orbital station at all.
      similar for the ground stations, there is none left except for the “large groundstation” (pad size 150m) and the “dome station” which i made for “Sputnik”.
      and of course te new “single port”.

      it’s ok to have stations and ports which are to small for the large ships, but some or most must be big enough.

      large and 50m above the ground, still under certain circumstances it can be covered by the terrain, which looks nonetheless reasonable.
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclcgpaa/screenshot-20170423-001059.png “”)

    • #110372

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclcrgiw/2017-04-23_004703.png “”)

      i almost forgot, the “station splash” contains a little clock, the blue and red dot (planet & moon) circle the yellow dot (sun),
      while the small red circles the blue dot to show the seconds (one pass = 1 minute)
      the blue shows the minutes (one pass 1 hour).

      special planet movement clock, not good to read the time from but looks quite nice.

    • #110376

      a question to myself
      “why does most ships designs have only large forward thrusters?”

      i think that’s shitty, someone designs a spaceship for a game like pioneer where a lot of things are reasonable and you come off with a ship with fou giant thrusters in the rear and no reverse or laeral thrusters, how could such a ship fly?

      i know even i didn’t builded all ship in a manner tha they would work or that the thruster nozzle size would reflect the thrust,
      but i’m trying to or trying to be as close to this as possible.

      but when ilook at sketches or ships of other modelers they always have only the big thrusters in the ear, 4, 6, 8 of them,
      to me that didn’t looks really good.

      let’s take a look at my last ship
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriicl/screenshot-20170421-053122.png “”)

      the four thruster pods have main and rear thrust nozzles, already with this setup, because they are relatively far from each i could steer the ship
      along the 3 axes, climb/dive, yaw and even rotate over Y is possible.
      what’s missing is rotate along the ships axis and crawl sidewards as well lift & sink.

      with adding of the thrusters “up” & “down” i reached even this and now the ship can roll (it could anyway in the game, but i use no antigrav engine)
      along it’s axis as well to lift.
      thus you see you don’t have to use all directions like i did for the “Badger”.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclriwci/screenshot-20170421-064912.png “”)

      of course some ships leak of this especially the “Rapier” or the “Hullcutter” which also have only large main thruster nozzles.
      but firstt hey are quite old models and second i had a Hullcutter version with the proper thruster nozzles fitted.
      this could be added anytime .

      further, if you have a ship like my saucer style “interceptor” with missing sidewards thrusters one should reduce the left/right thrust to a minimum (a fraction of 1G),
      thus it’s in the game really disfunctional and the ship will behave different.

      they don’t look bad but usually i guess “no, this ship won’t be to maneuver”.

      halfways it should also reflect the thrust, if i have a shi like the good old “Large Galactical Cruiser”

      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/PIONEER/2011-02-09_013534.jpg “”)
      6 i mean SIX giant thrusters in the rear, but nothing else
      also a freighter, a ship with a rather low acceleration and then REAR THRUSTERS as big as if it’s ment to accelerate with 100G’s
      even if you add reverse and lateral thrusters they won’t stand in any reation to the big rear thrusters whch produce prob. a accel. of 10G
      if i add now a small thruster for reverse it will have looked at the size a thrust of 0.1G, by the meaning of 100 times smaller = 100 times less efficient.

      imho most is based on SW and other sci-fi movies or comics, SW is a fine example, in SW the ships usually only have forward thrusters, how to steer a ship isn’t relevant it seems.

      a Stardust in action
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/PIONEER/2010-11-12_090655.jpg “”)
      nah, even this ship hasn’t proper thrusers fittet.

      at least they all look better as this one
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclcogrr/2017-04-23_031953.png “”)
      excerpt of “Learn Vertex and Pixel Shader Programming with DirectX 9”, wordware publishing inc.
      [Learn Vertex and Pixel Shader Programming with DirectX 9](https://books.google.ch/books?id=0hxI9nxkdg8C&lpg=PR4&hl=de&pg=PR4#v=onepage&q&f=falsehttps://books.google.ch/books?id=0hxI9nxkdg8C&lpg=PR4&hl=de&pg=PR4#v=onepage&q&f=false”)

      could one design a ship with less polygons?
      and is that because most modelers are men that many ships remind of something phallic?
      “testa di gazzo”

      and if mine doesn’t look like that (mostly) does this mean i’m gay?

    • #110377

      Sorry I got the name of the Stardust wrong. It’s been years since I took it for a test flight. Your work looks fantastic! A thought about tail-sitters, The Police Mecha has an interesting landing gear animation . It transitions from a vertical standing robot to a horizontal flying mode. The orientation for the player is horizontal when the ship is standing and when its flying. Perhaps the animation could be translated into Lua for a tail-sitter.

    • #110378

      You have to enlighten me Marcel, “Police Mecha” is that content of the recent Pioneer? And yes i used even the same for my tailsitters, but i’m not really satisfied with this.
      it’s a problem of dierction and thrust. if i design a Talsitter which rotates to horizontal alignment, i have to make unrealistic thrust, the idea of a tailsiter is to have only a lot of main thrust and only little to maneuver, just enough to maneuver the ship in free fall (without firing main thrusters) and if you laid in the proper course to fire then the main thrusters.
      if i design a ship like you mentioned i need at least enough “up thrust” (quasi lift in horizontal alignment) to launch, because no matter how i rotate the ship wit the LG animation, vertical stays vertical. In other terms, if my ship stands now uright on the pad dosn’t matters, respectively it shows the rear down but it’s in fact still horizontally aligned and to launch i need the “up thrust”. Now for a figure, like the Cyborg i leaned out once from SW-XWA it won’t mater and you will give him similar thrust in all directions, that is reasonable for such a “Spacemen Suit”. A tailsiter will have a quite different setup to work really as a tailsitter and if i give it the same thrust for “up” as for “forward” it won’t act like a tailsitter, but i have to if i rotate the ship with the LG animation.

      Thus either i do it like for the Atomic1 and it’s finally only manual to maneuver but has a “realistic” thruster setup, or my Rocket won’t act like a Rocket.

      there is another problem if i rotate a missile shaped rocket with the LG, it will aproach a spacestation wrong and turned to upright as soon as the docking procedure starts.

      this would all be no big roblem if there wasn’t this problem with the “wrong” upwards thrust for a tailsitter.

      In words this is complicated to express, but when you have the ship you will understand immedialy what i mean.

      Thus to make really use of a tailsitter, i mean a real tailsitter, the Stardust isn’t a tyical one, because for this ship design it’s no problem to have enough directional thrust to lift it from the ground, it was never ment to be this restricted like the “Atomic 1”

      but “Atomic 1” is a real tailsitter and has only enough forward thrust (resp. up which will be forward for the “non rotating” tailsitter), enough to lift a ladden ship, exactly on the limit and on a high gravity body you can’t lift, that was the idea. it will have ladden a thrust of max. 5G in a single direction!
      all other thrusters have only enough thrust to maneuver the ship in free fall, maybe 1G empty and a fraction of it when ladden (~0.5G)
      maybe even less!

      recently i find only the overhauled or “public” version of the “Atomic 1” which has similar thrust in all directions except “down”.

      ths isn’t the one i used for ->

      however, you forced me to dig out the “Atomic 1” and implement it to “Pioneer a31” to show you what is the difference.

      (dunno if i will use a31 in future, it seems to me it’s unstable, my former companion from AUS also ment this and he took as base a a30 release.
      it lacks of some new things but prob. these cause the instability and damned a lot of modules don’t work proper and i ask myself now again how they checked this or do they feel they are as good that it’s not needed to proof if they work always? old problems i liked to avoid and that’s why i left Pioneer. and i know right now again why i liked to go back as far as possible or would even like to revert it to the state it was as long as TomM still was involved, “better make small steps and advance slowly as to implement a lot and end up in a mess” if somethng is proof you can implement the next.)

      also i stated this already because of the modules scripting itself, it has getting very complicated with the “new” devs and one needs programming skills to understand how the shit works. Tom’s was maybe “dirty programmed” but simple and good to understand. if i need programming skills to write a module what for use a script? you could then do it as well “hardcoded”, because if it’s not ment to be user editable it doesn’t have to be LUA.

      never mind gernรถtli, work on your build and fill FFED3D with the missing models, dammit!

      shit! if i remember right one of his first changes was to change the perspective view in the modelviewer to a orthographic, because he understood me when i said it’s useless to have a grid in a perspective view (vice versa to “our friends” who doesn’t wanted to understand me, no matter what i said). it’s simple just take a look at any CAD, you only have a grid in orthographic view and only if your view is “unidirectional” from either one side, else a grid has no use. you have the grid to help you to see the dimensions of a body, to measure by the eye and this only works in orthographic view, else how can i see a difference of a lowered Landing gear front to rear? in perspaective view is always what is farer smaller and the grid doesn’t helps a shit. what i would need or would be senseful is fixed view angles like in any CAD and a orthographic view.
      it annoys me again, changes to that modelviewer which was made are all shit, it won’t show all equipment anymore neither you can type in the number for a special item to visualize if now the “whatever extra” is positioned right (whatfor is the modelviewer if not to check the animations? and i mean all of the animations not what “somebody” who doesn’t models thinks is needed).

      sometimes i suspect many changes back then have been only made to make me angry hoping i will leave he project soon.
      really because some changes are absolutely useless, but i had continusly to fix my ships to the new conditions.

      if that “Police Mecha” is content now of pioneer it’s only a evidence for this, if i made such i was called a lunatic, if someone else do it it seems it’s fine.
      no matter what they said it’s not ment personally or as a attack on me, it was in fact, this shows it well.

      and exactly such i hate like the pestilence, to be false and not rightous person, you might be caesar but if you aren’t rightous you are miserable to me, vice versa you might be a beggar, but if you are rightous you are my friend.

    • #110379

      besides i’m a former construction worker i can see the alignment in a reality, that’sno problem resp. that’s the experience of a construction worker.
      but the perpective view in pioneer or any artificial isn’t exactly like reality, it helps a shit that i see in reality the alignment.
      for a 3D projected on 2D i need the orthographic view.

      “if i made such i was called a lunatic”
      and right in the next buld this was restricted if it didn’t harmed the rest of the game.
      or is there i.e. any other reason not to show a certain equipment in the MV? No!
      “we don’t like gernot’s animated antenna he uses for the radar mapper because we feel it’s wrong , thus we disable it to make the use of it near to impossible”
      that’s the true reason behind.

      due to such i have and had always to start the game for a final check instead that i could use the modelviewer which was originally ment for this.
      i never understood this, sorry.
      it’s no “toy” to play around with, it’s to create models with the LMR unavoidable.

      really i didn’t thought that i will vomit all the old shit again.
      but well being confronted with the same willingly implemented problems leads to the same frustration.

      and it’s more then just sad that i lost contact to my companion due to a crashed machine, because finally i found one who understood every single longing i had and who didn’t said “your lunatic”, vice versa he said my ideas are brillant.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclpgaar/rinasce_piu_gloriosa.png “”)

    • #110381

      “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” (sigmund freud)

      and sometimes a cigar is a tailsitter ๐Ÿ˜‰

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclpcgil/2017-04-23_202115.png “”)
      it’s no longer the “Atomic X1”, “X” means experimantal but i left the expermental stage and this is now “Atomic MK I”

      and sometimes a fastener is also a tailsitter, or a pencil, or whatever i got in my hands as a child

      but it seems i’m not the only lunatic and some even earn money with their lunacy

      “bubentraum” i posted this once no?
      ![](http://www.grueter.com/image/tn_Bubentraum_berabeitet_6893.jpg “”)


    • #110383

      the “fish” is ready
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclwdooa/2017-04-24_004117.png “”)

    • #110384

      a “ship” (isn’t the proper term, a Rocket it is) for champions.

      the messed up controls due to the wrong alignment make it hard to control this vessel.
      also you can’t use computer contolled flight, or it will fly sidewards with ~1G instead of vertical with 10G.
      it means you can use this Rocket only i manual flight, no problem it suits such a ship, it’s to imagine it simply has no computer controlled flight mode.
      further i even restricted the autopilot because the autopilot can’t handle this as well.

      thus it’s really a ship for champs
      to fly you control it best in external view (loose), then you see how the rocket is aligned to the horizon or to a spacestation.

      “braking is for cowards”
      no reverse thrust or near to 0, 1 i have to enter but 1 (not 1G) is negligible.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclwargl/screenshot-20170424-012651.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclwargi/screenshot-20170424-022222.png “”)

      marcel i will PM you and beam my rotten old Pioneer a31 (Phoenix) up, just that you can experiment with this missile shaped fish.
      i wish you already now a lot of fun with it.

      i can’t say if you can use it in a recent build.
      first it must be dumped and then converted to Collada, but i won’t do this i have no interest in lousy collada models.
      i have no interest in fact to do anything for “Pioneer”, i’m finished with it since TomM left i can say.

      for Walterar’s Scout it would be different, i lke him and he respects me, but it won’t be possible unless i have a new machine.

      see they punched me out, why should i have any interest?
      i’m naive but i’m no idiot.
      i can stand to slapped in the face three or four times but even i have some pride.

      it’s for me OK to work on a old release and maybe like i said i turn the wheel even more back, it’s buggy as it never was before.
      i can’t say how this recently is but i guess the crew didn’t changed thus why should have anything changed or have gettin’ better?

      oh yes even i have my pride,
      i’ve had enough time to reflect what has happened and my conclusion was “where would pioneer be without me” even when there are since a long time no more models from me in pioneer. but you will agree and say “yes – nowhere we would be”, i was the first who added models to it and whatever they think or say they can’t steal this, it’s written in the book of history and not to erase.

      truely you geraldine and me was quite the first ones apart from Tom Morton and without us it wouldn’t be even here on SSC, without geraldine even i would have missed it.
      i remember this well, we stayed all in “Frontier forums” and had a lot of fun talking about old FFE or FE2, i really stumbled once over TomM’s project, but to be honest i thought “incomplete, looks not bad but FFED3D is better”, i didn’t even downloaded it and took a closer look at it.
      a few months later geraldine pionted on “pioneer” and suggested that this “empty” game should be filled with models and that it’s worth to take a closer look at it.

      and that’s how it started.
      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/PIONEER/ScreenShot00012.jpg “”)

    • #110385

      The Police Mecha is in Scout Plus. I’m sorry that I wasn’t clear about that. Here’s a picture of it landed.
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclwolca/screenshotfrom2017-04-23201711.png “”)
      It’s kind of dark, but you get the idea. The legs fold back behind the cockpit for horizontal flight. If you could make the animation for lowering the landing gear rotate the ship instead you would need to make the bottom thrusters equal to the main thruster for it to work.
      I see why you need to improve the model viewer. It’s neglected because to make a model in Pioneer currently you need to use Blender. You can make the model viewer into a LMR tool.
      I’m looking forward to flying the fish!

    • #110386

      phew, i made it
      landed rough near the station i started, but it was quite a thing, it’s really a ship which is extremly hard to handle (sometimes in the morning?).
      sorta “Rocky Jones” scenery, he building is a dirty quick one, but that’s what i remembered of “menace from outerspace”.
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rclwocor/screenshot-20170424-061327.png “”)

      i will have to send you a update, i made a misake when i set the Atomic up and the thrusters work wrong, still it’s a beast even when they work proper now.
      keep in mind that you have to rotate the ship that forward will be forward (sidewards for this rocket) else it’s even more confusng if left becomes right
      and forward becomes backwards. also it needs o fire the main thrusters from time to tme, else you crash.

      i guess one who can maneuver this rocket can maneuver any ship.
      land with it like with a real lander module
      have phun

      recently the “Atomic MK I” is quite large, 100m tall, but it’s easy to scale it to your choice.
      the scale for the ships i put in front of every script, together with the lod and the radius, thus if anything needs to be changed it’s quickly done.
      if you alter the scale of a ship alter also the scale in the ships setup to the same value, the scale influences the angular thrust in my setups.

      besides i kept this system forall models in phoenix, stations and buildings to, the scale is always leading anything other because it influences all
      radius and lod.
      stations should “autoscale” and “autoposition” you find on top of the script a position vector and a scale which will if the script in the directory stations is also updated
      make it possible to easy scale or position the stations (lift of the ground i.e.). the docking animation should be scaled as well (should there is no warranty, but if i haven’t forgot it it will work).

    • #110387

      I can see that you sent me two messages but I can’t open them. I don’t know what’s wrong, but I can see that you finally saw that building! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #110388

      you can’t open the message..
      open the message… hmmm

      ok i didn’t liked to make it public because of the copyrighted music in it, but if you can’t open the essage you won’t get the link.
      let’s see if i can transfer it to your dropbox, i guess that should work with dropbox.

      no i can’t get it right
      they stated “enter name or e-mail” but it seems with the name i derivated from your dropbox it didn’t works.

      maybe you have to wait somewhat, i’m not sure but probably even PM’s must pass a admin.

      if it all fails i wil have to remove the music and then i can link it here.
      why not rightaway?

    • #110389

      soon ready to make it public, i emoved the critical classical music, what’s left is pioneer, some amiga modules and some public midi files (in .ogg certainly).
      converted MIDI files which are PD i will include in future more, because it’s a safe way to implement classical music to the game.
      or even some rock music, most isn’t good what you fnd of rock music in midi, but some aren’t bad.
      i downloaded a midi of pink floyds “echoes” and since it’s composed on the piano it sounds well played only on a piano.
      other sound completely shitty and usually they replaced the voices with a chorus or even “voice”, but argh it sounds stupid.
      also some only read in the notes to produce the files, you can use a software to read a scanned notes sheet and it will convert the notes to a midi file.
      while the result is simply piano and sounds usually very artificial.
      for Bach’s music this works well, it’s almost artificial anyway, straight mathematics.

      i really would like to playback midi or soundtracker modules (modplug is opensource and can be used in any software, it plays all module formats and midi as well)
      the advantage is the filesize, a midi or a soundtracker module needs only a few kB.
      you could fill the game with hours of music and use not a 10th of what you need for a mp3 or ogg.
      especially the soundracker modules are quite good or better as a midi because it uses own samples and not standard midi samples.
      i have a piece of organ from bach as module and it sounds damned good, almost like a real organ because the samples are took from a organ.
      the samples are very low in bitrate, usually 8bit in 8000 or 11025 kHz, but you won’t notice such in a module, it wll be dithered to the bitrate and frequency you specify.
      it’s somewhat “obsolate” nonetheless modules have advantages, not only the filesize. a module is controlled first by how it’s made, but the player can do a lot with the content of a module, transposing, speed, loudness, almost anything you could control. if one likes he can even use it to generate music from samples, it’s a true computer format and not “recorded music”.
      thus it would be possible to let the machine compose, routines for such exist since computers exist.
      many years ago i had a proggy which converted any notes to Bach’s style.
      you enter a couple of notes and the software generates a piece of music of it, certainly artificial and not really good, but i think it would open interesting possibilities for a game, compose music in each system based on the seed for the system. each system would have it’s own “music” .
      endless music and the filesize will equal almost to zero.

      eh, the devs of “modplug” are certainly not from yesterday, it’s still modern, it’s still more advanced as a mp3, it’s like i said a true computer format.
      and if the machine has a soul like some expect, then this soul will prefere it to compose & play music instead only to playback.
      TRON would be amazed i guess ๐Ÿ˜‰

      the file is now about half of the size due to the deleting of the music.
      here we go:

      thought that the PM’s will be to open once (maybe they must pass a admin first), the links in it are dead, i removed the files from my dropbox.
      valid is now ony the above link.

      this “composition” (it’s no build yet) is based on the remnants of “Sputnik”, Vuzz’s “Genesia (alpha31) and a alpha31
      which i still had on my drive and the new stuff i made.
      it’s anything else as stable, don’t be surprised, but i didn’t exect that my models or scripts cause the errors, but if you find a specific one which is related to my models or functions
      then i wil appreciate a report.
      i appreciate also the other bug reports, but recently i can’t fix them, first i have to manage to make a build with my existing garbled stuff of alpha31 or 30.
      the ain problem is like i posted already the “pioneer thirdparty” directory, the recent won’t work for alpha31 and older ones aren’t to find on GitHub,
      except for the one i found on Philbywizz’s account, but i will first have to make proof if it works (it should).

      (and fix that goddamned keyboard, resp. trash it and fix your old MS Internet Kb., it’s not to stand how many glyphs i miss and i hammer on that cheap Medion Kb).

      further there is still the option to go back to alpha9, it includes a “thirdparty repo”, but somehow it fails nonetheless, i lost patience and made models then.
      i know i will lose a lot when i return to alpha9, but i even would like a older build.

      **if someone still hods such a damned old source from TomM i would really appreciate it to get this in my hands, because i like to go a own way from on the point where TomM stopped to actively develop pioneer.**

      it won’t look as fancy as it does now, but i would like it, i would like to make my own “faults” and see where i get with it.
      most of all (but maybe exactly this is the cause why they aren’t to find anymore) because of the unbeatable AI.

      i guess it’s not appreciated if someone releases a pioneer in which you can play and not only visit and stare at the beauty of it.
      but i really miss the dogfights, since this change i never really played pioneer, i mean i do played, but with little nterest or only to check if my models work as expected.
      small “experiments” but no real play.
      as long as we had the old AI, damned i played a lot and it was a lot of fun to play it.
      missions are cool and certainly something which is needed, but well i would need no missions at al if i can win against a AI, if there would be only a slight chance.
      then it’s enough to carry goods from A to B and fight against some pirates which wil await you.
      tome this is the game, this is the paragon FE2, of course you have military missions (some), but well this means batteling.
      this means for a recognize mission to fight against a hundred imperial (or federal) ships.
      **and that’s the game!**
      which works well even still with the pure vector graphics of FE2.
      it’s fun to play, even when it’s 30 years old.

      and i guess i’m not wrong when i say “Pioneer was planned as a sort of modern Frontier”, and if this is true then why it has gettin’ so boring?
      to have a toy for the devs?

      Walterar made a very good job to get the last out of it with his “Scout”, unfortunately i can’t play it.
      and i guess i’m neither wrong when i recommend his scout over pioneer itself.
      at least the last scout i played or peeped in was fun with his modules, certainly a lot found their way into pioneer.
      and no it’s not because he bunkered my models, i appreciate this much, but models didn’t make the game, this i know well.

      Pioneer was almost at it’s best when we had only the sirius interdictor, ladybird, flowerfairy and walrus.
      4 “lousy” ships, but well it was a game and not just visiting a far system.

      these 4 “lousy” ships still stay in Phoenix, just to remind of who builded pioneer, who stood behind this and who had the right idea of it.

    • #110390

      sorry for my long text(s), but i have to utter this.
      a week ago i entered “Frontier” (or something similar) into Google and stumbled over a guy who liked to create a modern frontier for his graduation.
      “i like to make a game like FE2, with pure vector graphics”
      well i like this idea.
      because he likes to make a GAME an not something to stare at.

      did any of you ladies and gentlemen took a look at this:
      [spacesimcentral.com/forum/discussion/7033/space-adventurers-working-title#latest](http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/discussion/7033/space-adventurers-working-title#latest “spacesimcentral.com/forum/discussion/7033/space-adventurers-working-title#latest”)

      well it din’t looks like much, but you have to read not to stare, “it didn’t looks good” (it does to me)
      BUT IT SOUNDS GOOD what sort of game he likes to make!
      and this matters.
      the traffic is extremly low and except of me no one commented or enforced him in his project.

      now we look at the opposite
      [spacesimcentral.com/forum/categories/xfrontier](http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/categories/xfrontier “spacesimcentral.com/forum/categories/xfrontier”)

      here the traffic is enourmous just because of the overwhelming graphics, but it’s no game, it’s just a collection of graphical nice looking things.
      i don’t like to be unfair but i assume it would even push my rampage III at it’s limits.
      that’s not a game that’s just “see what nice stuff i can create with my super modern computer”

      see that’s what i’m talking about, but i’m sure “space adventurers” will be real fun to play.
      the goal is not to show the most fancy thing you can get out of your graphics card
      the goal he has is to build a game, he’s a pro and knows what is needed, unfortunately most are to blind to see it.

      **”space adventurers” would be my choice and i hope i can produce a little traffic on his projects site here to enforce him to carry on, because i know right now it will be a good game.**

      but yeah i understand if he would have cancelled it, because if no one shows interest i dont’ have to make it.

      i know i’m right, i wasn’t always that sure, but now i am.
      my former compagnion told me i’m absolutely right and as well this guys ideas about how such a game soould be to play even underscores what i think.

      damned “Astro Kid” is more fun to play as pioneer, believe me.
      and that’s just pointing with a cosshair on countless ships in shitty sprites graphics.

      ![](http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy187/potsmoke66/sshots/001b_zpsnapvhkun.jpg “”)

      i have to post this here, the working title of astro kid was…?
      make a guess

      ‘Calvin and Hobbes – Goes for the Gusto’
      “…but due to copyright restrictions it couldn’t be distributed via Aminet. So it was totally rewritten and the graphics were redone”.

      i’m pretty sure, if the recent devs of pioneer couldn’t have sit in a ready made nest, we wouldn’t even know them.

    • #110391

      me i’m just a “nobody”
      but i was well known as FE2 pilot before we started with pioneer,

      FE2 not FFE, i didn’tknew it existed at all before i subscribed to Frontier.forums.
      but i played FE2 since… it must have been 94 or 95 when i inherited the CD32 version from a friend who didn’t liked the open ended FE2.
      haven’t that CD anymore, it was complete with the system map of the core systems shipped with it, but i still hold the CDROM image i made back then of it.
      and stil it’s along with the PC version my preferred Frontier, mostly because of the in FFE standard “navigation aid”, which was first implemented in the CD32 version of FE2.
      unlike in FFE it’s not everywhere available and you need a certain ranking before it appears in the commodities list.
      it’s the most stable version of FE2, the PC version i only like because of the textured objects, that’s fine, and because if you took a old version resp. a certain file of the first release you still have the “wormhole bug” present.
      now one could counter “buffet” does the same trick”, no i doesn’t buffet is heavy cheating and the “wormhole” in buffet will transport you immediatly to any target.
      unlike the “wormhole bug”, to make use of it you have to calculate your jumps or use a special proggy which does it for you and thus you can see this as part of the game.
      it’s not easy to use it right.

      i had earned some laurels already on elite-games.ru, because of my unconventional solutions.
      because of my deep knowledge of FE2’s objects (models in other terms).
      maybe just because i showed them that this or that is possible even when they was told before it isn’t.
      ceratainly when i look back to 2007 i was a bloody beginner and made hundreds of wrong guesses (but found nonetheles the right solution).

      not to talk about all the friends i made at frontier forums which still are my best friends in web, i share the most memories with them.

      “draw curve from v1 to v2” or maybe even vice versa, return to vector1

    • #110392

      Marcel can you do me a favour?

      i still have this problem with wrong coordinates when i rotate along the Y axis.

      do you remember that i posted once a lot of examples how some cities are displaced if i regulary position them along the aequator?

      but none of the devs took this serious, as if i would cheat to make a evience hapen just to post something, no there is a error.

      now i wonder if it has been fixed, to test this you can do what i did once
      just position cities on a planet in a regular manner like every 5 degrees one
      if you don’t like to make such a script i can see if i find my old example.

      but i really would like to know if this is solved because this is extremely vital! (at least i magine this as extremly vital)
      no it is, the coordinates will nfluence a lot behave of the game, pioneer is geometry and if something elementary is wrong the whole game is “wrong”.

      this isn’t bound to the LMR else it wouldn’t show up when you create a custumized planet.

      i stumbled now over it because i liked to make a iris type hatch and use for this a “for loop” to shorten the process of typing (vice versa it turned out to a big problem)
      i listed then the sub-models separate and what had my bloodshot eyes to see?
      a irregular behave, instead that i can use always the same data, degrees to rotate, the parts flipped around such hat i thought “that’s simply not possible”.
      but it is possible else it wouln’t have shown up in this manner.
      i checked my data, vectors and rotation a dozend times, but no there is no error i made, it behaves irregular.

      it’s not the first time i used a for loop to rotate parts, but the first time it failed and it’s just because of y axis and certain values.
      for this model it was in betwen 0 and 45 degrees.
      if i remeber right on a planet it was in around 10 degrees where the error showed up and the cities was slpattered anywhere but not where you expect them.

      i know that i reported this as a issue, bu i haven’t been taken serious as usual, resp. they said it’s neglectible,
      wrong coordinates are neglectible?
      to repeat pioneer is geometry and if something is wrong with the coordinate system the whole game will reflect this.
      (personaly i feel either they think they make no errors or it’s just because i posted the issue).

      well if fluffyfreak thought it’s good that there is no problem with the shaders and it really was one of my errors, i’m no god i’m human and do make errors.
      “trust your computer but not it’s programmer, errare humanum est”
      but well shaders are less as secondary to the coordinate system.

    • #110393

      I got the files this morning. Thanks! I’ll test and give you some feedback.

    • #110394

      part two (i’m a slow typer)

      you know that we two rebels Vuzz and i had never been taken serious by them, with exception of fluffyfreak and philbywizz
      right yesterday i opened occasionally a old issue he posted, the answer was “it must be YOUR graphics card”
      (it was a pic with far to large blobs (the spherical sprite stuff) and i guess it was when they made this error to enlarge the blobs for distance of the billboard lights
      thus i suspect it wasn’t his graphic card or a opengl error (how could that be opengl is if you use the same version 100% the same on every windows driven machine) it was this wrong behave of the blobs)..
      always we two received such answers instead that they would have taken it seriuos.
      if that was a small problem with some graphical stuff or a serious one like the coordinate system, it was always our fault or the machine we use.
      (in the very last case it will be the machine “trust your computer…” thus it’s either my fault or… however “errare humanum est”
      the one who thinks he makes no errors makes the biggest error by thinking this.)

      you don’t have to post it as a issue, i just like to know if this has been fixed meanwhile, let’s say it’s only good for my selfrespect.
      either result will help me, if it still stays, i was right – if they fixed it i was right even.

      **really even if i sad i don’t like to do anything for pioneer no more, this is such a vital thing that i just have the players in mind and they are still important to me.**
      further if it’s fixed or not, it will probably help me to find out where this evil bug hides and i can blast the life out of it.
      resp. if it’s solved i don’t have to care about that anymore, only for my own future releases.

      i’m not sure what hey thought “that it won’t matter just because only a idiot will position cities along the aequator in a regular manner”?
      it wasn’t because of the city coordinates, this is only a way to make it proof, it’s the whole thing which must have a bug somewhere,
      else it wouldn’t show up everytime where you like to rotate something along the y axis.
      that z don’t works to rotate i know since a long time and understand also why.
      but x and y have to work in the same manner when i rotate.
      if i rotate along x this error didn’t shows up, only y axis and only certain values.
      nether i think it has something to do with the radiants, the system works for x also it has to work for y.

      of course when you create a body i.e. a sphere it won’t show up because the vectors are tied to each other by the geometry itself.
      neither it shows up when you rotate something dynamic, in other terms a animation, even this seems to me comprehensible, because it didn’t stays at a certain value and
      thus the vectors are even “tied to each other”, it can’t flip around when it’s moving.
      it only shows up for single vectors, such as when you rotate something to a certain position.

      there is a bug in the coordinate system and i would have interest in fixing this before fixing anything else, geometry is pioneers skeleton.

      dunno either if we still have a problem with the collada animations for rotate, even here it showed up, they “solved” it but well i don’t know if they fixed the coordinates or simply wrote a workaround (i suspect the latter).

      collada animates like i animate in a script it doesn’t uses a matrix to rotate and translate, it uses vectors and degrees
      (not radiants, the reason i guess to use degrees and not radiants in this format is caused by it’s resolvability resp. portability, you can load it to any CAD and the animation will work proper)

      and here we are degrees to radiants
      once i supected it’s the little difference of a fixed value for pi (3.1416) or math.pi which has i guess a precision of 9 positions after the floating point.
      of course also math.pi has a little imprecision but well far less as 3.1416.

      i noticed also in the source that all apearances of math.pi had been changed to a fixed value and dammit the bug can be reasoned exactly in this.
      3.1416 isn’t pi it’s close to but not close enough to.
      and obviousely this won’t show up in a animation where i rotate with radiants, but with degrees which must be coverted first to radiants, well that could be the error.

      now this has come to my mind when i wrote this down (though it has a use when i write such walls of text, often i get the right idea when i write my thoughts down, the remembering of the collada format was the firing spark)
      and i guess i will check this for myself if it still shows up when i use again math.pi for deg2rad instead of the fixed value, i was told once it’s “better” to use a fixed value
      (assumed it still works to use math.pi)

      (less to calculate and as it would be no good idea to use C expressions in LUA, i mean they removed some other legal C stuff, maybe just to make gernรถtli angry the few C expressions in LUA are absolutely legal for LUA, you can read this in any LUA trainer, it’s not lunacy it’s legal LUA)
      but it seems in case for pi this thought is wrong and in fact pi can’t be exact enough it’s only a nearing value and never exact.

      to make it really proof i would have to revert all appearances of 3.1416 in the source to math.pi whch is a legal C expression.

    • #110395

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rccgwrci/2017-04-24_193505.png “”)

    • #110396

      I couldn’t follow all the technical details, but I think that making a variant of Pioneer that runs on lower spec machines is a worthy goal.
      The Frontier ships aren’t allowed in Pioneer, but in variants like Genesia and Scout Plus they are. I’m sure you could use them if you wish.
      It’ll be a week or so until I can try out what you sent me. Thanks again!

    • #110397

      i gues you misunderstoof me a little
      I don’t want the FE2 ships in Phoenix, i have quite enough own ships now.
      I know that it would be n problem, but well i decided myself not to have he in phoenix, nothing except the game itself should remind of FE2 or FFE

      Certainly i will make a “FFE complete mod”, but it has absolutely no priority
      the FFE mod wil change all to FE2 / FFE as far as possible, but it will be a mod, that’s what they are for
      like i.e a starwars mod or whatever theme

      such mods will change most not only the ships and to make it really good i will have to change some vital things in pioneer, because and planned such long ago,
      to have a nice SW mod, Sol can’t be the default location for Pioneer, it has to be modifieable.
      this would make it possible to recreate the SW “galaxy”, a least the systems we know from the movies.
      it would also open the possibility to create a fantasy environment, with i.e. animal like spaceships.

      of course this won’t change the gameplay but i think it would be a nice feature ot make it possible to recreate any sci-fi environment.
      from perry rhodan to star-wars, or even a trek mod is to imagine or f you ike a sace ranger mod containing only tailsitters
      it won’t be perfect and it will be still pioneer but i guess pioneer is the sole project which can open this door.

      but it’s a long way to get there and a FE2 mod is easiest to made or i can say i have this ready, i made aleady some FE2 modsafter my ships was removed from pioneer.
      i’ not longer angry about that, a little maybe i still don’tunderstand why the other ships had to leave to, while a obviousely ELITE franchise like the Lave system could stay, but i don’t mind much anymore. and it’s not oly leaned on elite, lave is a straight copy of it (except for the location). imho this is far more a violating of copyrights as my ships was. but i’m not brianetta and i can’t make myself look as i would be a god or something.

      “wenn eins und eins dasselbe tun so ist das noch lange nicht das gleiche” we say
      and it means if one and another do the same thing it doesn’t mean that it’s equal.
      which should mean some poeple have always right even if they do wrong.

      such is our world, no one has to tell me this, poor dudes like me know this too well.

      but hey i have cool friends, here and in real life, not many but trustworthy and this counts really.
      just guess of phil the hooligan he will nail anybody unsharpened in the ground who will harm me.
      and with such a friend you can go midst through hell and you won’t loose a single hair.

      it’s caused by his unpleasant youth he had, he lost his mother very early and his daddy as well, they put him in a orphanage and it was not for his good.
      i remind him of his dad, except that i’m no body-builder, but he was deep into electronics of which he “nothing understands”.
      often he let’s me feel that he thinks he’s stupid but this guy has more aspic as many who think that they have a lot of it.
      he’s lost, but no looser, nonetheless he drowns it all in beer.
      ah, it’s not easy to be intelligent and if you are and if you ar a proletarian then it’s really hard,
      most of them drown their problems in alcohol, thinking isn’t good it makes you feel bad thus you drink until you stop to think.

    • #110398
      thus i suspect it wasn’t his graphic card or a opengl error (how could that be opengl is if you use the same version 100% the same on every windows driven machine) it was this wrong behave of the blobs)..

      Because that isn’t how OpenGL works. Each vendor (_GPU maker_) writes their own implementation of the specification – aka: the driver.
      These drivers have bugs, optimisations, clever code and neat tricks to achieve better performance and newer drivers often break older features because there are too many combinations to check.

      So when we get a bug and say: “_Please try the latest driver_”, it’s not that we think it’s YOUR fault, it’s just that it’s the most common cause of problems AND the most common fix for the problems ๐Ÿ™‚

      There have been problems with the sprite size rendering, that is my fault, some older drivers (_5+ years old_) especially have trouble. SO should everyone else miss out on better performance because someone won’t/can’t update their drivers? It’s not fair on everyone else.

    • #110402

      do i have to excuse me for my hard head?

      > SO should everyone else miss out on better performance because someone won’t/can’t update their drivers? It’s not fair on everyone else.

      (i have to add here maybe that couple of years ago when i still ran a win7x64 i never encountered problems with updated drivers, especially graphics and sound, while under XP it was in the end always the driver that was once shipped with the hardware which worked best and usually the problems start with updates, and i can say i have experience with XP, if ilike it or not. i dindn’t ike it and i have to do my worst to get to a better machine)

      i should shut my goddamn mouth, anyway that’s past i didn’t wanted to be confronted with it again, that’s why i made this long pause (too).

      the best i can do from ward is really to go back as much as possible (to me) in pioneer releases and more and more i’m sure i will restart with the oldest release i obtain a source of.
      i will lose a lot of features due to that but i really looks to me as the best option, also that i can keep calm.
      but foremost it is if i really like to work on it then it should be as slim as possible, i’m just a single person,
      if i miss the simplicity it had once then i should return to this simplicity.

      **it’s not my business to mind about what changed later and if that is good or not.**

      and what i like to do most and do best this i can use as well in alpha9 release (even if i would go pre-alpha, but unfortunately i obtain no source of such a release, resp. no longer)

      this is no “i guess” or i “feel”

      on the other hand, it’s nice to see that my posts get read by someone ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #110404
    • #110405
    • #110414

      I just tried to run Phoenix. When I try to open it I get the message “An error occurred when opening this archive”. Phoenix0.0.1_Pioneer31.7z is 133.8 kB in size. It’s too small, obviously. I don’t have an idea about what’s wrong. I’m running Linux if that’s a help.

    • #110417

      i would try it a second time ๐Ÿ™‚

      i downloaded the file as guest and the download broke the first time, but second time it was ok (complete new download, continuing a failed download often doesn’t works).

      alternatively i uloaded it new to both file clouds

      [**dropbox: Phoenix0.0.2_Pioneer31.7z**](https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyu4g6uvt5p51f8/Phoenix0.0.2_Pioneer31.7z?dl=0https://dropbox.com/s/kyu4g6uvt5p51f8/Phoenix0.0.2_Pioneer31.7z?dl=0”)

      [**onedrive: Phoenix0.0.2_Pioneer31.7z**](https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhX1Ed1178sOhUrpupoL5BL19Mathttps://1drv.ms/u/s!AhX1Ed1178sOhUrpupoL5BL19Mat”)

    • #110418

      a couple of new typical lmr ships, all except one have a similar basic shape.

      to give th ship a name and not to use “Cobra” isn’t always easy

      **Draco** (looks like a kite)
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacpaw/screenshot-20170502-134217.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacplr/screenshot-20170504-230314.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacpla/screenshot-20170504-230415.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacpll/screenshot-20170504-230453.png “”)

      move a few vectors, size it down and you get a

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacpoa/screenshot-20170503-015457.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacplw/screenshot-20170504-231055.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcpacpcr/screenshot-20170504-231156.png “”)

    • #110419

      I like those ships! Both of the links worked. Phoenix is looking good. I got Petra @ London in a cool enclosed hangar and saved it. We’ll go for a flight tomorrow.

    • #110421
    • #110422

      looks lie i disabled the “aurogenerate faction” (factions0_AutoGenerate.lua_), just remove the underscore to enable them
      they need quite a time to be generated cause they are spread widely and 160 is a large amount but i recognized more factions close to the core systems if i use i higher amount, however many small factions (totalitarian regimes) is better. they are recently very small and can be sized to your choice if you like them a little larger (more systems as only 1 to ~5)
      that’s in the respective script (00_AutoGenerate.lua)

      `– minimum and maxium expansion rate
      local min_expansion = 0.05
      local max_expansion = 0.1`

      if you set a higher expansion rate the systems will be larger.

    • #110423

      Petra just took her first flight. It’s nice to see the other planets in the system. I miss that. I was surprised to see London in daylight at midnight GMT. She’s going to have to do a lot of grinding to equip her ship. She inherited that Rapier and quit her job at the fish cannery to take a package delivery to Paris. She flew as a newbie in the atmosphere at 500 m/s, so she’s not an astronaut yet. I found the keyboard to be sluggish and am getting 5/6 fps regardless of detail settings. I’m running this on Linux and may be able to improve this with some adjustments to WINE. I saw that Firefly in the shipyard. I want one! You’re making some nice looking ships! Anyway, she landed at that Sydney Opera House station and cleared 19 credits.
      Oh, and I like the music!

    • #110427

      that sounds likwise if i’m running pioneer on the macbook ( < 10 fps ), (under wine or as osx app).
      i guess you need to make many deliveries to buy a Firefly ๐Ÿ˜‰

      i got a little more fps on my old windows but i know it needs improvements from my side to, (while i feel it din’t makes no big difference, i can’ leave away such things lke the random adverts and didn’t gain a lot of speed, what cost’s most is still the postprocessing)

      for me it helps a lot to make it run more stable if i disable the music (sad).

      i know you like the old raves, but i like as much or even better i like classical tunes especially in a game like pioneer.
      i found some classsical music in the archive and i wonder if this is ok to use them in pioneer, since they ae pubished as PD.


      i have a (quite) large collection of classical music mostly baroque this compilation adds a lot uf music (or excerpts of concerts/operas) i missed.

      let Flash Gordon (silly or not) enter the hall,
      [Liszt, Les Preludes](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1854+Liszt-+Les+Preludes.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1854+Liszt-+Les+Preludes.mp3&#8221;)

      the definitive naval theme, any boatlike vessel game movie whatever will use this
      [Wagner, Ride of the Valkyries](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1870+Wagner-+Ride+of+the+Valkyries%3B+from+’The+Valkyrie&#8217;.mp3 “https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1870+Wagner-+Ride+of+the+Valkyries%3B+from+’The+Valkyrie&#8217;.mp3”)

      i guess this is even used in the old b/w flash gordon series and many other movies and tv plays as well,
      [Suppe, Light Cavalry Overture](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1866+Suppe-+Light+Cavalry-Overture.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1866+Suppe-+Light+Cavalry-Overture.mp3&#8221;)

      this one has been used in countless cartoons,
      [J.Strauss II, Tritsch Tratsch Polka](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1858+J.+Strauss+II-+Tritsch+Tratsch+Polka.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1858+J.+Strauss+II-+Tritsch+Tratsch+Polka.mp3&#8221;)

      another which has been used for movies, mostly excerpts from it, it’s a very dynamic piece and ranges from silent to dramatic
      [Offenbach, Orpheus in the Underworld](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1858+Offenbach-+Orpheus+in+the+Underworld.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1858+Offenbach-+Orpheus+in+the+Underworld.mp3&#8221;)

      this well known piece i use as opener (directory “intro”):
      [R. Strauss “Also sprach Zarathustra”, Fanfare](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1896+R.+Strauss+-+Also+sprach+Zarathustra+-+Fanfare.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1896+R.+Strauss+-+Also+sprach+Zarathustra+-+Fanfare.mp3&#8221;)

      wagner is always good for ( a Gernot? grin, it’s a “wagnerian” name) something dramatic,
      [Wagner, Siegfried’s Death and Funeral March, from ‘Twilight of the Gods’](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1877+Wagner-+Siegfried’s+Death+and+Funeral+March%3B+from+’Twilight+of+the+Gods&#8217;.mp3 “https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1877+Wagner-+Siegfried’s+Death+and+Funeral+March%3B+from+’Twilight+of+the+Gods&#8217;.mp3”)

      as long as the danube is blue
      [J. Strauss II, The Blue Danube – Waltz](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1867+J.+Strauss+II-+The+Blue+Danube+-+Waltz.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1867+J.+Strauss+II-+The+Blue+Danube+-+Waltz.mp3&#8221;)

      anytime when it’s morning you will hear this tune
      [Grieg, Morning – from ‘Peer Gynt’](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1876+Grieg-+Morning%2C+from+’Peer+Gynt&#8217;.mp3 “https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1876+Grieg-+Morning%2C+from+’Peer+Gynt&#8217;.mp3”)

      cartoon characters usually fall immediatly asleep when they hear this tune,
      [Brahms, Cradle Song](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1868+Brahms-+Cradle+Song.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1868+Brahms-+Cradle+Song.mp3&#8221;)

      one of my personal favorites and i had ths tune already in pioneer and some other games
      [Smetana, The Moldau](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1875+Smetana-+The+Moldau.mp3https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces

      finally another hit (really a hit if you guess how often this is used)
      [Tchaikovsky, Piano Concerto No.1 in B flat minor – 1st movement (excerpt)](https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1875+Tchaikovsky-+Piano+Concerto+No.+1+in+B+flat+minor%2C+1st+movement+(excerpt).mp3 “https://archive.org/details/100ClassicalMusicMasterpieces/1875+Tchaikovsky-+Piano+Concerto+No.+1+in+B+flat+minor%2C+1st+movement+(excerpt).mp3”)

      there is more and more which fits from my ward well to pioneer

      a strange issue (this is prob. only valid fro lmr models), when i zoom a ship out in the modelviewer until it vanishes and zoom back close to it i gain almst a doubling of the framerate in the modelviewer, i think that’s strange, why don’t i have this extra fps rightaway? sometimes it helps also to lower and retract the landing gear, when it’s retracted the framerate will be higher as at start when it’s even retracted, sometimes a switching from collision mesh view to rendered does the same.
      (besides when you set “sync to refresh rate” in your graphics card setup the framerate will be always 60fps as long as it’s higher as 60fps).

      the only real good solution will be to release a build and you can compile the tard on your linux machine.

    • #110428

      since i also have a low performance on my rotten old computer i tested what helps me most.

      most helps the resolution, if i use a very low resolution of 640×480 the framerate is quite good no matter how high i set the details in the game

      if planet detail distance is high it will ake a long time to render the terrain, but else it has no big influence on the performance
      fractal detail influences performance equally as much as city detail level does, but it makes no sense to set a high fractal detail if the detail distance is low,

      disabling shaders will boost the framerate at any resolution but looks shitty, it would be acceptable with special made models for this.
      buildings without “base plates” and glowmaps must be raplaced with glowing materials where possible.

      for my use a rather low resolution of 800×600 works fine if i run in fullscreen mode (a window will be quite small in this size)

      under wine i expect that a low resolution and disabling shaders is unavoidable.

      if i play it in my screens resolution (1680×1050) with enabled shaders i get a framerate < 10fps
      if i use 640×480 as res., disable shaders and set all details to low it runs at ~80fps

    • #110434

      I listen to Classical music a lot. This is a nice collection. Thank you! I have a rather large music collection. It was over 29 days of music. Just short of a month. Adding this collection put it over 30 days, so I can now say that I have a month’s worth of music! :smiley:
      I just upgraded my operating system so I haven’t played Phoenix for a couple of days. I still have to install WINE.

    • #110439

      if you like to tinker with the new stuff i thought this might be helpful,
      as i said i wrote a “couple” of helper functions and here is the exlanation to the new (and old) functions
      a similar document i will write to explain the purpose and use of the sub-models i created.

      **GERNOT’S LMR FUNCTION REFERENCE** (“basic functions” and some submodels to)
      revision 1, 05-10-2017

      valid for all functions:
      if a function uses a variable such as “time” or “anmation position”
      or needs to call a “ship state”, it can only be used in the dynamic section of a model
      (i.e. nav_lights).
      functions with fixed values can be used in the static section (i.e. interpolate).

      **math.clamp = function(v, min, max)**
      clamps “min.” to “max.” referring to “v”
      math.clamp( driver, 0.2, 0.7)
      will clamp “driver” (animation position) from 0.2 to 0.7 and return 0.0 to 0.5

      **cuboid(pos, size)**
      creates a cuboid starting at “pos” with the dimensions of “size”
      creates a cuboid starting at corner v(0,0,0) with the dimensions x=2, y=0.5, z=1
      if you use negative values the cuboid will have a inverted surface

      **joined_patch(p, edge, pts)**
      i’m not experienced with this function

      **vlerp(t, v1, v2)**
      interpolates “vector1” with “vector2” by factor “t” (0.0 – 1.0), usually time or a animation pos.
      with a fixed “t” you can interpolate vectors to create a new vector, e.g. “slide a vector on a plane”.
      vlerp( 0.5, v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0)
      will return v(0.5,0,0)

      **lerp_materials(a, m1, m2)**
      interpolates two materials by factor “a” (0.0 – 1.0), usually time (but any “driver” is possible)
      the same as vlerp only that it blends two materials by a factor
      set_material( ‘material’, lerp_materials( get_time(),
      {0,0,0,.3, 0,0,0,0, 1.5,0,.5},
      {0,0,0,.99, 0,0,0,0, .5,2.5,0}

      counts in steppings from 1 to 10, “spd” controls the stepping rate (speed)
      if “spd” isn’t set it defaults to seconds

      converts degrees to radiants
      the C function “deg2rad” was once disabled, that’s why i replaced it wth this.

      **mirx(vector), miry(vector), mirz(vector)**
      mirrors input vectors x, y, or z
      mirx( v( 2.5, 0, 0 ) ) will return v( -2.5, 0, 0 )
      useful in vector lists or otherwise to quickly mirror a vector
      vectors of a quad,
      v0 = v( -0.5, -0.5, 0 )
      v1 = mirx( v0 )
      v2 = miry( v1 )
      v3 = miry( v0 )

      interpolates two vectors,
      interpolate( v( 2, 1, 3 ), v( 4, 2, 1 ) )
      returns v( 3, 1.5, 2 )

      vlerp( v( 0.5, v( 2, 1, 3 ), v( 4, 2, 1 ) ), does the same, nonetheless i use it sometimes

      creates standard navigation lights, ths function is replaced by “pos_lights”, but left for compatibility
      they are both similar. “nav_lights” i don’t use anymore.
      size = size of the “light”
      “red”, “green”, “coll1”, “coll2”, “steady”, are the position vectors of the respective “light”
      with this function you can specify all lights at once.
      nav_lights( 2, v( -10, 0, 0 ), v( 10, 0, 0, ), v( 0, 3, 10 ), v( 0, -1, -10 ), 1)
      will produce a red navlight at pos v(-10,0,0), a green at v(10,0,0), a white at v(0,3,10)
      and a white at v(0,-1,-10).
      the last value is a boolean and if specified “coll2” won’t be flashing to use as a headlight i.e.
      if nothing is specified (returns “nil”) then it’s assumed it’s flashing

      **missile(index, position, v_right, v_up, scale, missile_pod)**
      calls missile dummy-models to be playced on the ships, if a missile is fired the model will be removed.
      index = index 1 to 8 (8 visible missiles, the max. is 16 but only 8 are shown)
      position = position of the missile
      v_right = horizontal orientation (to orient a missile)
      v_up = vertical orientation (to decide if placed under or on top of the ship
      also to place a missile upright if ever needed)
      scale = this didn’t scales the missile, it’s ment to keep the missile scaled ordinally
      and requests the final model scale, which is defined in the info section of a model.
      missile_pod = boolean (any glyph or none), if true the missile will have a mounting else not.
      missile(1, v( 12, -3, 5 ), v( 1, 0, 0), v(0, -1, 0), model_scale, yes)
      will place missile 1 (of 8) at v(12,-3,5) oriented forward v(1,0,0)
      and rotated to be used under the ship v(0,-1,0), the scale is kept 1:1 with “model_scale”
      and “yes” means i like o have a mounting for the missile
      missiles and mountings will be reposiioned automatically if you specify a mounting
      (top of the mounting will be your entered position, else it’s he centre of the missile)

      translates a model for you, very useful because you don’t have to mess with “math.clamp”
      “vlerp” and the correctional values you need.
      name = models name which is to translate
      v1 = start vector (from)
      v2 = end vector (to)
      vx = horizontal orientation of the model
      vy = vertical orientation of the model
      scale = obviousely the scale of the model
      delay = delay of “animation position” (0.0 – 1.0) when the animation has to start, i.e. 0.333
      offset = offset of “anmation position” (0.0 – 1.0) when the animation has to end i.e. 0.666
      input = the “driver” which is to use, if nothing is specied it deaults to “WHEEL_STATE”.
      translate(‘piston1’, v( 0, 0, 0 ), v( 0, -5, 0 ), v( 1, 0, 0 ), v( 0, 1, 0 ), 1, 0.0, 0.333)
      will translate model “piston1” from v(0,0,0) to v(0,-5,0), with orientation “upright”, scale 1
      and clamp the animation from timepoint 0.0 to 0.333
      driven by default “wheel_state” animation position.

      rotates a model for you, very useful because you don’t have to mess with “math.clamp”
      “vlerp” and the correctional values you need as well with “math.sin/cos” or “deg_to_rad”,
      you just enter the desired degrees to rotate in the given timespan.
      name = models name which is to translate
      pos = position of the model
      v_x = horizontal orientation of the model
      v_y = vertical orientation of the model
      scale = obviousely the scale of the model
      degr = degrees to rotate
      v_rot = axis over which is to rotate positve values is clockwise rotation, negative is ccw.
      delay = delay of “animation position” (0.0 – 1.0) when the animation has to start, i.e. 0.333
      offset = offset of “anmation position” (0.0 – 1.0) when the animation has to end i.e. 0.666
      input = the “driver” which is to use, if nothing is specied it deaults to “WHEEL_STATE”.
      rot_gear(‘rig’, v( 0, 0, 0 ), v(1, 0, 0 ), v( 0, 1, 0 ), 1.0, 90, v( 1, 0, 0) 0.333. 1.0)
      rotates model “rig” at position v(0,0,0) , oriented “upright”, size 1, with rotation 90ยฐ,
      clockwise over x axis, start at 0.333, end at 1.0, driver is default (not specified).
      all correctional values should be calculated proper, though you only have to position and orient the model proper.

      **rot_clock(vector, fractions)**
      returns rotation values to rotate a model stepped in whole seconds, i.e. for a clock.
      with fractions you can lower or raise the speed if needed, if not specified SECONDS are assumed
      you have to use this in a models call,
      local v_rot = rot_clock( v( 1, 0, 0 ), 60 )
      call_model(‘clockhand_minute’, v( 0, 0, 0 ), v( 1, 0, 0 ), v_rot, 1.0)
      will rotate “clockhand_minute” over x axis in minutes stepping (stepped! not continously).

      **selector(grp,offset)** (note this function has changed compared to my release)
      random selector function, recently it uses the random materials as seed since the label has been removed from the ships preview
      grp = group number of 4 groups
      offset = randomize 1 to amount of offset, if not specified 1000 is assumed
      will use selector group 2 and randomize between 1 and 8

      selects randomly 1 of 5 colors to use for decals, dresses or similar
      self = this function needs no arguments

      autoscales a text string though it will use only a given space disregarding (resp. regarding) the length of the string.
      size = text scale, usually the same scale you use for a label if you use this for a ship,
      else the scale which fits i.e. to the 7 letters of “Pioneer” to use the space you got for the label / text to create.
      offset = the “default” string length, if you use 7 it will use exactly the space you need for 7 glyphs i.e. in “Pioneer”,
      if you raise this value it will clamp the scale to this amount of glyphs in the given scale.
      autoscale_text(4, 10, ‘that’s really cool’)
      will scale the string “that’s really cool” as if it would be only 10 letters long in the size of 4.

      that is really cool! ๐Ÿ™‚

      generates a random shipname (have phun)
      self = this function needs no arguments
      returns i.e. following string “FUNNY SAUCER”

      selects a predefinied material by it’s name from a table
      name = material name (refere to “functions.lua” for the recent material names)
      will return “set_material(‘steel’,.25,.28,.3,1,1,1.3,1.5,30,0,0,0)
      don’t forget to register the material in the models info section.

      a set of engine glow materials
      they all “turn off” if a ship is docked or landed rough, thus they may only be used dynamic
      returns a semitransarent engine glow material
      returns a solid engine glow material

      engine glow materials which changes the color depending on the drivetype (common “sky blue” ,military “acid green”)
      returns a semitransarent engine glow material
      returns a solid engine glow material

      this is the new positionlights or navlights function, this function you have to use for each position seperate.
      therefore it has greater flexbility as “nav_lights” and upscales the light in lower lod’s thus it’s still visible when the ship is far away.
      typ = ‘right’, ‘left’, ‘green’, ‘red’, ‘centre’
      positon = position of the “poslight”
      scale = size of he poslight
      lod = lod, just enter “lod” if you call the function, it will take the recently used lod of the model it’s used in to upscale the light.
      it’s not perfect but still better as if the navlights vanish already at lod 3.
      poslights(‘green’,v( 24, 0, 5 ), 2, lod)
      creates a green flashing position light at v(24,0,5) in scale 2 and uses the recent lod to upscale the light.

      this function simply returns the two animation drivers needed for spacestations
      to use in the dynamic section f a spacestation model, if called once you can use the variables in your models animation like,
      local driver1
      if stage_bay1 == 1 then
      driver1 = pos_bay1

      **stationlights = function(pos,size,color,model_scale)**
      small function, many arguments,it does not much as only to position a light for you which else can be done as well
      pos = position
      size = size of light
      color = color of light as vector (v(1,1,1) for white)
      model_scale = final model scale from the models info section to keep the light in scale 1:1
      stationlights( v( 0, 0, 0 ), 40, v( 1, 0.8, 0 ), model_scale)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcrrdw/2017-05-10_144539.jpg “”)

    • #110440

      it starts all with a sketch
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcrwia/orcascratch.jpg “”)

      i can’t decide which one looks better, two on top? on bottom? or four? (missile pylons or whatever it should be, “nose” if you like)

      i started with this, two pylons on bottom
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcdlli/2017-05-10_155855.jpg “”)

      but then i felt it mybe looks better if they are placed on top, it will give the ship a face
      and it has a face, but a funny one
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcdlwl/2017-05-10_160451.jpg “”)

      next i thought “maybe t’s best to use all four”
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcdlll/2017-05-10_155652.jpg “”)

      but neither i’m satisfied with this. recently by looking at all three pictures i decide for the first one which was my intention at start.
      to me it looks most agressive, the second is to friendly and looks a bit like a frog and the third has stil this friendly appearance due to the pylons on top.

      while it’s not bad and the whole thing looks anyway like a submarine, thus the four pylons look like four torpedo pylons.

      but who ever reads this is allowed to comment, i wonder what you guess which one looks better.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcagii/2017-05-10_163154.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcagil/2017-05-10_163207.jpg “”)

      intentionally also i had the idea to make a promenade deck in the front mid section of the ship regardless that such will boost the polycount immense
      wherefore i kept it the bezier shapes as low as possible, but if once textured you won’t notice the bended quads, which are anyway always bended for a bezier shape
      of course it gets smoother with more iterations but with so many bezier shapes you double and quadruple the polycount easy when you use more divisions.
      of course it’s o perfect, i can’t pre-calculate such a curve, thus i have to work with a sketch and tweak the shape until i’m satisfied.
      due to this it’s also sectioned into three parts, it was ment to jin front and rear directly, this wil work for sure, but leaves a ugly seam,
      thus i decided to “cover” the seam with a real seam, the mid section, it has a further advantage, i have now something planar where i can mount the landing gear.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcadla/2017-05-10_164735.jpg “”)

      as you can see by the front flaps, if i place the undecariage in a bezier shape i can’t use rotating flaps, first i’s exremly complicated to counter resp. prerotate the part to the
      angle(s) or rotate and correct rotation in one process, if that is done the bowed flap will still look stupid when it opens, because it’s then only joined at one point.

      the “wrinkles” in the shapes are caused by this
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwcaolw/bezier1.jpg “”)
      could avoid this if i respect this manner, as you can see are the triangles in a bezier shape always in the same winding order which leads to the fact that 2 corners are always “wrong”,
      when the edge doesn’t leads to the corner the quad will “flap in” and this produces heavy wrinkles especially if you use only one shape.
      this could be avoided if i would split i.e. the engine covering which is made from a single shape, into four shapes and for two i had to change the starting point though
      the edges will show to the other side, but apart from that this will use a couple of polygons more it will quadruple my effort to make one shape.
      also it will leave a small seam between the sections.

    • #110441


      also i haven’t found out how to normalize such like Tom did for his “sirius interdictor”, this is something i missed to aks him and neither the bezier shapes and
      especially the “:normalize()” or “unitv” (instead “v”) function is explained
      when i tried to use them the result was never what i expected (i even didn’t know exactly what to expect).
      and only by looking at the “interdictor” or “ladybird” i can’t figure this out right.

      these aren’t the only “hidden” functions, some have ben never explained in the LMR reference, that’s sad

      FEIERABEND (closing time)
      ![](https://picload.org/image/rcwclwai/2017-05-10_191040.jpg “”)

    • #110447

      Petra just flew to M. Gorbachev. It’s an interesting station, a good ELITE substitute. I noticed that it’s small and rotating fast. Have you worked out the gravity math for it? It looks right. I found the radio advertisements annoying during the flight. I like them, but I think they should only be played while the player is docked. It would add a department store ambiance to the stations.

    • #110454

      no i haven’t worked out the math for it, i lked to and was close about to…

      (that’s why i posted the picture of the spacestation sketch)
      but then i recognized that i have no idea if the the value for the angular velocity is reliable in pioneer, i think so
      second it’s quite hard to find this formula for angular velocity to centrifugal force, usually it’s needed in medicinal technics to calculate the virtual gravity for a centrifuge
      but there is the question “how many rpm do i need for 1G” and not the angular velocity.
      for this use you find calculators in the web: enter radius, rpm or desired G – receive G’s or rpm
      thus i simply asumed that a small (relativey, it’s quite bigger as hoop and offers space for a max of 4 bays) station will rotate quite faster as a big wheel to reach 1G at the outer radius.
      besides i have problem ith the animation and a sation stays occupied or you can’t dock even if you have permission if one bay is occupied.
      i have to find this error first.

      yep, the adverises could be limited to be selected donly when docked

      probably when you reach a city with a micro spaceport the game will hang, i recognized that i missed to change the name for a submodel
      and the one it calls now is reserved for ships, but probably this isn’t relevant this change is new.

      if that’s the case nonetheless (to test this, “lunar city” on moon will have such a small spaceport),
      the change would be in “singleort.lua” to rename the call for the model “scanner” to “scanner_sub”.

      meanwhile i worked on my models and added for many a cockpit
      also i disregarded my own rule not to use wavefront objects and used my wavefront pilots instead of the scripted one, a new scripted version must be made first.it won’t have a gender maybe neither a head just a helmet – i will see, it will be as simple as possible for this small object.

      further i scripted a handful of functions to use in the models script resp. to make it a little more comfortable.
      the reason was, first i needed repetively useable objects for my cockpits
      because the cockpits are locally lit, if you load a model it won’t receive the local light only a geomery in a actual function (model) will receive the local lighting
      second i liked to scale the objects in all extensions seperately and this isn’t possible with a model
      third i liked to get experienced and still need more experience for a texture mapper function
      the recent tiles are mapped a texture from a given projection plane and scale and position the texture according to the dimensions and the position of the tile.
      thus the texture will always fit no matter what dimension or position (it still has errors, that’s hard to calculate).
      with the results from this mappings of my various tiles i should be able to create such a texture mapper, the calculation is always the same
      the rule changes a for each plane that’s what makes it so complicated, but if you draw two cubes and imagne that you rotate and translate the mesh
      on the texture and not vice versa you get it why this has to change and how it changes, still it’s a mindfucker
      3 dimensions

      however i completed a new ship

      we need definately another unuseable ship, that’s why i made the “Shuttle”, i’s the most ugly ship in the whole galaxy.
      it’s designed only by purpose and this is to carry goods or people from A to B, a Shuttle, like the name tells.
      it has the weakest thrust in the game, but makes as first of my ships use of the difference from capacity to cargo
      you can have much more capacity as cargo, this allows you to mount in a ship more tons for cabins as you can carry cargo tons
      while it still leaves some cargo for equipment and fuel, the shuttle makes use of this and has incredible 16 cabins capacity but only 50 tons of cargo load.
      you can see the cabins (almost) they are rather small and certainly uncomfortable.
      it’s not ment to have a hyperdrive, but i guess it can be mounted (if not i will enable it), anyway it comes without drive and costs “nothing”.
      when you mounted all 16 cabins you still have 10 tons for cargo left

      in general my ships are weaker and recently i changed the calculation for the trust from the use of “tara” to “brutto”, however i feel i can keep them
      in ths way closer to a almost realistic value. empty the ships will have a quite good thrust but aship will never be empty
      transporters with a high capacity must be kept very low when fully ladden else the are faster as a fighter when near to empty.
      however i decide i always have to keep a eye on how it will be in the other state, tara or brutto.
      but this could also mean i have to change certain scripts because the medium endurance for a mission will be longer with less powerful ships
      also you will use much more fuel with a low specified engine.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroarw/screenshot-20170520-124958.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroadr/screenshot-20170520-125101.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroadl/screenshot-20170520-125332.png “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroada/screenshot-20170520-125150.png “”)

    • #110455

      the “flying breadbox” if i look at the shape of the ship now
      a space cookie box?

      it makes use of most new created functions (tiles)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroara/2017-05-20_131449b.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroagi/2017-05-20_131605b.jpg “”)
      and marcels “big screen” which hasn’t to be so big

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroagw/2017-05-20_131809b.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroarr/2017-05-20_131834b.jpg “”)

      a view inside the “Badger”
      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridroagl/2017-05-20_132057b.jpg “”)

      and finally if you are “bored of the repetive cargo runs”
      you can go to the arcade hall
      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrcwcw/2017-05-20_154117.jpg “”)
      and play a classic space shooter

      of course the tiles make most sense in a locally lit area/room
      but since they are free scalable in all dimensions one can use them anywhere
      the windows as example are “hooked” on the lower left corner if they face +z/-z, that’s to take a near vector as base for the window position

      the side facing version +x/-x orientet, is “hooked” even on the lower left corner to be used in a simple way with a for loop if one likes to place them repetively on a building i.e.

      the top facing y oriented version is “hooked” in middle ofthe geometry, which makes most sense for this rare use

      the “inlet_quad” function works in the same manner, a botom or top inlet you will position referring t the centre of x and z
      while a side or frontfacing geometry is best centered at a side to refere to a vector close to the desired position, if the side turns and the position is wrong you simply can add/substract it’s own length/width

      the functions work a little uncommon compared to a model call, they will receive position vector and a orientation vector
      but this orientation vector is very simple and rotations aren’t possible, it determines only on which side a geometry has to face
      if a value is wrong or empty the function will simply fail or show the wrong state because maybe “1” at “x” is present – mostly,
      with exception of the texture and zbias values which can be left away
      there are even exceptional unlogical behaves because “v_orient” i used i different manner for the tiles
      i.e. the free texturable “inlet_cube” won’t flip the plane with the orientation vector, in this case it’s used to rotate the texture by 90ยฐ to cover this case
      if the geometry has to be flipped it has to be done with the dimensions, the gometry is a cuboid function and works exactly in this manner.
      the proper normals for the cutout are determined by z if it’s + or –

      besides this is another exceptional rule for the tiles, the dimensions are always as if it would be facing to you, this means z stays z no matter how the tile is oriented
      also the tiles have a given basic dimension by the ment use of them, i.e. a window or inlet is z always 1/10, it makes sense for this shape.
      computer, console and locker are also in a useful size and only have to be “shaped”.

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridriloa/2017-05-08_022854.jpg “”)

    • #110456
    • #110457

      recent state of the ships which have a cockpit now
      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprpl/2017-05-20_163721.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprpi/2017-05-20_163733.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprpw/2017-05-20_163843.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprwr/2017-05-20_163936.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprwa/2017-05-20_164850.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprwl/2017-05-20_164912.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprwi/2017-05-20_165037.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprww/2017-05-20_165101.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrpdgr/2017-05-20_165956.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrprpa/2017-05-20_170014.jpg “”)

      ![](https://picload.org/image/ridrpdcr/2017-05-20_164249.jpg “”)


      the only help i see for the erformance issue you have under wine to use a linux build
      the source or alpha31 is still available
      another possibility is as long as i don’t work on the source to simply take a old alpha 31 linux build,
      i haven’t found any old releases in the web, but maybe someone can help you out.

    • #110459

      I was running Phoenix by right clicking on the exe and selecting run with WINE. I set it up with PlayOnLinux and got 9fps on Earth and 61fps in space.
      I have a bug report. Petra flew to Galileo but couldn’t dock. She had permission to dock at bay 2 but no matter what speed or whether the landing gear was up or down there was no collision detection and she flew right through. I could see another ship in the station as she went through. I wonder if the code doesn’t work if there’s one ship in a station that can accommodate two.

    • #110469

      yes i wrote that the sacestatin animation doesn’t works roper, this is the error you encountered, as soon as bay one is occupied the station is locked, i have t solve this
      othrwise “petra” may trash the orbital station script and reactivate the old stations, big crappy and the rest, they are just deactivated and marked as longcomment (–[[

      i feel sooo good today
      i blasted my first ship from the sky since long
      and i guess it’s caused by the lower shipspecs, it wasn’t even that hard.

      i liked to make a travel to betelgeuze and on the way a rotten pirate has picked up my trail thus i had to fight him, he won’t leave that bastard.
      but i made it, thus i can say “hey it’s possible” but i really guess it’s caused by the balanced relatively low thrusts
      it never was that easy when i tried it before.

      i like that ship, it brought me my first victory ๐Ÿ™‚

      ![](https://picload.org/image/riawdwwi/2017-05-28_191710.jpg “”)

      i lost my scanner and got some scratches on the hull but i won.

    • #110470

      n future the calculaton for artificial gravity won’t be a problem
      i found on “atomic rocket” a “spin calculator” which does the job and you can enter as units rad/sec what i assume is the angular speed in pioneer for stations.

      [SpinCalc](http://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/SpinCalc.htm “artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/SpinCalc.htm”)

    • #110474

      this will be my last update for a month or so, i still didn’t changed anything in the code of the alpha31 i use.
      in the near future i will work for FFED3D again, else i make no progress there.

      it’s contains mostly the same stuff as in my last upload
      foremost i fixed the broken spacestation animation, which means the docking procedure works now correctly, but the animation is contemporary disabled, important is that the procedure works proper.

      it contains further some changes in the skins for tom’s original ships
      (the ladybird is therefore a bit deranged, recently i have problems to run glxtractor and due to the unscaled and unpositioned submodels when you dump a model with the modelviewer the dumps are useless to get the proper scale and position for the submodels, it’s tedious to rescale and reposition them according to the script, which shows off as a error in the skin i made for the ladybird)
      of course it contains the updated cockpits i presented already
      and a more balanced thrust for the ships which finally brought me my first victory since alpha9.


      ![](https://picload.org/image/riclrocw/2017-05-28_200258.jpg “”)

      kills 1!

      i hope i can repeat this and make a clip of the not to hard dogfight.
      it will be lame due to my old machine, but clips of a successful fight are rare.

    • #110475

      Excellent! Because I couldn’t dock, I had stopped playing.

    • #110476

      Thanks for this Gernot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #110507

      Hi hi hi, my little droogies >:)
      Recently i’m hospitalized, means i broke both feet
      And i try hard to manage to leave a message using my phone, horrible.
      I would liketopost you a picture how that looks like, but it didn’t works AS expected .
      Thats not the only thing which worries me
      I will stay hospitalized for Quite a while, cause of a “smokers leg”
      Means i only got 50% of blood in my left leg.
      But else i’m find.
      Unfortunately i even lost my free webaccess, i write this comment AS i said Form my phonevand recently i Gould kill who eher invented autocompletr, its acstupid shit.
      Turns could gould, stupid Maschine.

      Posting a pic won’t York at all… work not York you piece a junk.. Yet
      At least you know what i’m up to.

    • #110508

      Oh Gernot! I am so sorry to hear your in hospital! :/ I hope you make a quick recovery. For now though, relax and the doctors will help you. I also hope you can read this message ok? I know what trying to use a phone for text is like Gernot, I am hopeless with them too. Get well soon you ship model Meister you!

    • #110510

      8 Weeks i’m tied to 4 wheels
      Of course i do my worst to get well soon
      But every medal has two sides, i can finish reading Alexander Humboldts biography (sorta, it’s a story based on his and the life of c.f. gauss). Yo Google for these two brillant heads. I’m sure
      I will have time for many books to read.
      I ordered already Starship troopers, i have to read it. Brave New world, is on the wishlist AS well. Blocked by stupid religious remnants in my brain i missed Huxley

    • #110511

      If your catching up on your reading may I recommend [Encounter With Tiber by Buzz Aldrin and John Barnes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encounter_with_Tiber “Encounter With Tiber by Buzz Aldrin and John Barnes”) and also the [Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy “Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Roberson”). All of these have a nice mix of hard sci-fi and good stories. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #110512

      THX Geraldine dunno if i they are available in german but even better if not because not long ago i thought about to get me some books in english. could be difficult for my mom but i guess if i note the ISBN # it should be no Problem to order them. the trilogy i guess is translated, it was a recommend by Google if i remember right. i won’t be surprised (anymore) if buzz also composed music or sculpted.

    • #110513

      I would have thought Encounter With Tiber would have already been translated Gernot, but I couldn’t find a German version anywhere. :/ All I could suggest is get the pdf version somehow then try a translator. There are a few online, although I don’t know if they could handle a book that big. Maybe do a chapter at a time?

    • #110515

      Hi Gernot! How did you manage to break both feet?

    • #110526

      hi Marcel, both heels, i jumped off a fence about 1m, but i thought it was quite higher thus i landed like a Plank. but Mike i said that’s a bagatelle. they habe to replace my main body Aorta, because i have or get a “smokers leg”. the surgery was planned for today, but it hhad to be cancelled because oft my teeths Bad condition. the risk oft an infectiln is to high. not my fault,3 times the commune didnt liked to pay the Costs for a dental surgery. i’m a ” junkie” you must know (i’m not but i’m handled like one). it’s sort a OK because it will ha get a echo from the surgeon. stupid idiots, missed the Chance to help with a small effort and produced a big effort. greed usually ends up in such. fix those goddamned bite apparatus and then fix my rotten Main hydraulic pipe!

    • #110527

      damned communicator i typed like you piece a junk, not Mike. Mr. Zuckerberg you are a Cheater, we won’t have ai, there is no Software, will never be, which can Interprete like we can. or it would habe to learn a lifetime at least, a least it can’t be programmed. we are much much More AS the sum oft our experiences.

    • #110528

      My goodness Gernot! Your getting your Aorta worked on!?! Well take care of your self and please make a speedy recovery. I think I speak for everyone here in saying we send you our best wishes that your back on your feet soon. Also, don’t forget to check the PM I sent you. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #110529

      Yeah best of luck with that Gernot. We need you back designing things for FFED3D! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #110531

      Hey Gernot! I gave you [a much deserved mention](https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/368717-Space-Artists-who-do-you-like?p=5795886&viewfull=1#post5795886 “a much deserved mention”) over on the FD forums because you don’t get nearly enough credit you deserve for your epic rework of the Imperial Courier. B)

    • #110539

      i won’t get killed ๐Ÿ˜‰ (yes they have to replace parts of the aorta)

      that’s not the worst thing happening to me,
      imagine a cop kicked me out of my wheelchair, i didn’t get hurt but dammned that’s a impossibility kicking a injured or handicapped out of his wheelchair.

      that’s the real problem, fashism!

    • #110540

      Even so, I hope it goes well Gernot. The community misses you!

    • #110637

      phew, i managed it, and damned yes Steve with thd default colorsceme i nearly can’t read what i write, especially in the mobile.

      however, i jusf want to tell anybody that “bones” (actually a she) had mads a goox job.
      all systems are running fine.
      im still wired, especially sich a wonderful Apparatur wjich controls the pain near to the Backbone. sort oft pipe which deposes small amounts of medicals near to the nerve. very efficient.
      the surgery was a success.
      and in a few days i can already leave the Hospital.

      andi’m bored,bored, bored.
      2 months in geriatric are already More then enough.

      i’ve noticed little traffic in pioneer, what’s up?
      is There a reason for this?

      well, i guess you won’t have to wait long for my return.
      in both projects, ffed3d AS well.
      but recently i can only type a few letters.

      hello my friends ๐Ÿ™‚

      and dammit yes fluffyfreak, but my moms MacBook is definately obsolate. else i would like to help.
      and hmmm… hasn’t pioneer get a little bit to hungry for a mac
      overall i guess Laptops with builtin graphics will have problems, no?
      well it would be good to have a game for the mac.
      i don’t like to make you angry, but don’t you think we missed something?
      i mean i’m since at least 4 Weeks the only one who comments in pioneer.
      i can’t remember such from the past.
      i know we have many brillant competitors.
      but i remember also wie had a strong base of followers.

      no matter i will Hang on, on whatever pioneer ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #110638

      and the Interpretin oft what i type is still bullshit, Mr. sugarhill ๐Ÿ™

    • #110659

      Gernot, it’s great to hear from you! Welcome back! I’m so glad you’re OK!

    • #110660

      It lives! <grins> Good to hear from you, Gernot.

    • #110688

      yech, it’s alive!

      i got a piece of plastic in my body, i feel a bit strange.
      but i guess as long as i don’t need a overdimensioned black wehrmacht helmet everything is ok.

    • #110693

      for those who like to get a deeper knowledge of a aortic dissection (yech):
      it’s the part which is labelled “4” in the graphic, from under the liver to the ledge.
      and it feels also that bad.

    • #110763

      Gernot wrote: “but i remember also wie had a strong base of followers.”
      It still does. Remember the Frontier Forum thread? It passed 100,000 views a while back and, during the last update over on Mod DB, Pioneer topped the list of popular Futuristic Sims over there and it’s up against serious competition from the modern sims and such classics like Freelancer, the X Series and Freespace. Big hitters all, but thanks to you and all the Pioneer devs, it hit back. So yes there is a following out there Gernot , even if they are not as vocal as they used to be.
      Anyways, the important thing is your getting better Gernot. We all worry about you know, and hope you get home soon! ๐Ÿ™‚
      And…..here is a song for you, hope you like it, it’s an old one!

    • #110895

      can you please PM me?
      i noticed that you posted something but i can neither see my posts or yours.

      either i’m doing something wrong or i don’t know…

    • #110894

      certainly in like curtis mayfield

      (space sim central acts strange, i submitted a post and it’s nowhere to see)

      now i have to type the shit again. (edit: it was my fault)

      sorry that i was a little unattentive in the past, i stayed at “AtariAge”.
      i moved my Intellivision to my mothers flat to play the few old games i have…

      visited “AtariAge” and got stuck there.

      i ordered me a “flash rom” cartridge (LTO Flash!, LTO is “Left Turn Only” in other terms Joe Zbiciak who startet this Intellivision mess we have today).
      it can hold quadruple of the amount of games ever was made including all homebrews (some Megabytes).
      LTO also released “Christmas Carol vs. the Ghost of Christmas” published in 2014 i guess, made free to obtain this year (written by some other fellow).
      also his “Space Patrol” (Moon Patrol clone) is now free to obtain.
      “Christmas Carol” i guess you will like, just because it’s one of the fewer games with a female protagonist.
      i like it because it’s a well made homebrew which tops most of the official releases from back then, it’s a damned good game.
      while it seems to be popular amongst inty devs to use female characters, just to be the opposite of the rest.
      we intellivisionairies was and are still different ppl. we have to, we are used to play with a disc as controller ๐Ÿ˜‰

      one of my best liked “homebrews” is the “XBox One Simulator” (short: XBoneS)
      certainly you can’t…. on an inty, ts.
      it’s a demo of some sort, but cool, “wait for downloading 80GB” “wait” and “wait again” at the end comes the message:
      “don’t you miss the old days of plug and play?”
      “Intellivision, the revolution has started now!”

      to get a little more serious, but not to much.
      there have been many homebrews released since i left the forum in 2015, mostly thanks to “nanochess'” IntyBASIC SDK.

      but some still find it interesting to get into machine code.
      “decle” is one and he automated the process to convert “RCA Studio II” games for the Intellivision.
      The very first emulator for a 80’s console which emulates a commercial not successful console.

      the fitting emulator for Windows would be “Emma O2” which emulates all of the “superchip” consoles or computers.
      for further trivia of the “Studio II” and its clones (Hanimex MPT-02 in example)

      they ment “super cheap”, as stated in the devs manual, “a cheap graphics computer guide”.

      However one Game from the MPT-02, it produced colored screens compared to the b&w Studio II, fits to the topic here.
      “Star Wars” fits certainly as a sort of “Space Sim”.

      It’s a extremely simple dogfight between a X-wing and a Tie fighter.
      you don’t have to shoot only to aim (onboard firing computers, yeah! this tin can in the back has to do something).

      but it moves me, how simple it is ever.

      of course it can’t be a official “Star Wars” release, everybody is concerned about this.
      nonetheless the game is titled “Star Wars” and the ships, as rough as the graphics are, are easy to identify.

      here’s my self made instruction booklet for the special Intellivision conversion:

      “Studio II” itself had two space related games – sorry three.

      Space War

      which is one game for a single player and one for two players, in general you control ballistic missiles to shoot on alien ships.
      (horizontal intercept – vertical intercept)

      another one comes with the classic “gunfight” game for a single player, and “Moonship battle” which is unfortunately only for two players.
      it’s similar to gunfight one could say, two “Moonships” (what a great term) battle each other “in a fight to the dead”.
      (one is a upright triangle, the other is a upside down triangle, space ship design of 1978)

      enough of advertising “AtariAge”,
      now i return there and advertise Space Sim Central on AtariAge.

      i guess “Space Shuttle” a unfinished game for the intellivision i presented already once.
      however i guess i will open here a topic especially for vintage space games or simulations.
      “Space Shuttle” can be seen as a Space Sim.
      A quite similar game has been released for the Atari2600, both leak of a real gameplay, i watched a review of it last week,
      this dude stated that he loved it as a child even when it’s not a game in the common sense, but it boosts your imagination.
      as a child (in the 80’s), and of this i’m certain, you will feel to be for real in a space shuttle, especially with a buddy aside.

      Both are simple the same, in the Atari version you have to lift off, lay in a curse and manage to onboard a sattelite.
      In the unfinished Inty version, you don’t have to lift off, manage your curse more intelligent i feel (on a second screen, a map so to say) and even onboard a satellite (i can’t speak for the atari version, but to onboard the satellite isn’t so easy for the Inty version).
      “Space Debris ahead! Watch out!”
      don’t stay to long in orbit or you run out of fuel and have to land (it lands automatically if the fuel runs out or when the mission was successful).

      Overall i feel it’s not such a bad attempt to make a real Space Sim for the 80’s, that it has no action or doesn’t count points plays no role for this game, you complete a mission and that’s it, that’s the goal.
      the mission is not to blast some evil mothership from the skies, it’s a typical Shuttle Mission, onboard a sattelite to repair it.
      thus it is a real Space Sim.

      alternateรฎve box art for “Star Wars”:

    • #110896

      ok this one i can see, strange.

      let’s try it again (i hope you don’t mind, last try)

      or do you have to author my entries? i’m confused, total confusion, argh….

      sorry that i was a little unattentive in the past, i stayed at “AtariAge”.
      i moved my Intellivision to my mothers flat to play the few old games i have…

      visited “AtariAge” and got stuck there.

      i ordered me a “flash rom” cartridge (LTO Flash!, LTO is “Left Turn Only” in other terms Joe Zbiciak who startet this Intellivision mess we have today).
      it can hold quadruple of the amount of games ever was made including all homebrews (some Megabytes).
      LTO also released “Christmas Carol vs. the Ghost of Christmas” published in 2014 i guess, made free to obtain this year (written by some other fellow).
      also his “Space Patrol” (Moon Patrol clone) is now free to obtain.
      “Christmas Carol” i guess you will like, just because it’s one of the fewer games with a female protagonist.
      i like it because it’s a well made homebrew which tops most of the official releases from back then, it’s a damned good game.
      while it seems to be popular amongst inty devs to use female characters, just to be the opposite of the rest.
      we intellivisionairies was and are still different ppl. we have to, we are used to play with a disc as controller ๐Ÿ˜‰

      one of my best liked “homebrews” is the “XBox One Simulator” (short: XBoneS)
      certainly you can’t…. on an inty, ts.
      it’s a demo of some sort, but cool, “wait for downloading 80GB” “wait” and “wait again” at the end comes the message:
      “don’t you miss the old days of plug and play?”
      “Intellivision, the revolution has started now!”

      to get a little more serious, but not to much.
      there have been many homebrews released since i left the forum in 2015, mostly thanks to “nanochess'” IntyBASIC SDK.

      but some still find it interesting to get into machine code.
      “decle” is one and he automated the process to convert “RCA Studio II” games for the Intellivision.
      The very first emulator for a 80’s console which emulates a commercial not successful console.

      the fitting emulator for Windows would be “Emma O2” which emulates all of the “superchip” consoles or computers.
      for further trivia of the “Studio II” and its clones (Hanimex MPT-02 in example)

      they ment “super cheap”, as stated in the devs manual, “a cheap graphics computer guide”.

      However one Game from the MPT-02, it produced colored screens compared to the b&w Studio II, fits to the topic here.
      “Star Wars” fits certainly as a sort of “Space Sim”.

      It’s a extremely simple dogfight between a X-wing and a Tie fighter.
      you don’t have to shoot only to aim (onboard firing computers, yeah! this tin can in the back has to do something).

      but it moves me, how simple it is ever.

      of course it can’t be a official “Star Wars” release, everybody is concerned about this.
      nonetheless the game is titled “Star Wars” and the ships, as rough as the graphics are, are easy to identify.

      here’s my self made instruction booklet for the special Intellivision conversion:

      “Studio II” itself had two space related games – sorry three.

      Space War

      which is one game for a single player and one for two players, in general you control ballistic missiles to shoot on alien ships.
      (horizontal intercept – vertical intercept)

      another one comes with the classic “gunfight” game for a single player, and “Moonship battle” which is unfortunately only for two players.
      it’s similar to gunfight one could say, two “Moonships” (what a great term) battle each other “in a fight to the dead”.
      (one is a upright triangle, the other is a upside down triangle, space ship design of 1978)

      enough of advertising “AtariAge”,
      now i return there and advertise Space Sim Central on AtariAge.

      i guess “Space Shuttle” a unfinished game for the intellivision i presented already once.
      however i guess i will open here a topic especially for vintage space games or simulations.
      “Space Shuttle” can be seen as a Space Sim.
      A quite similar game has been released for the Atari2600, both leak of a real gameplay, i watched a review of it last week,
      this dude stated that he loved it as a child even when it’s not a game in the common sense, but it boosts your imagination.
      as a child (in the 80’s), and of this i’m certain, you will feel to be for real in a space shuttle, especially with a buddy aside.

      Both are simple the same, in the Atari version you have to lift off, lay in a curse and manage to onboard a sattelite.
      In the unfinished Inty version, you don’t have to lift off, manage your curse more intelligent i feel (on a second screen, a map so to say) and even onboard a satellite (i can’t speak for the atari version, but to onboard the satellite isn’t so easy for the Inty version).
      “Space Debris ahead! Watch out!”
      don’t stay to long in orbit or you run out of fuel and have to land (it lands automatically if the fuel runs out or when the mission was successful).

      Overall i feel it’s not such a bad attempt to make a real Space Sim for the 80’s, that it has no action or doesn’t count points plays no role for this game, you complete a mission and that’s it, that’s the goal.
      the mission is not to blast some evil mothership from the skies, it’s a typical Shuttle Mission, onboard a sattelite to repair it.
      thus it is a real Space Sim.

      alternateรฎve box art for “Star Wars”:

    • #110893

      sorry geraldine for being so “unattentive”.

      the past couple of months i stayed on “AtariAge”, thus you know because if my Intellivision, i tok it to my mothers flat to play some games.
      i oredered me a “LTO Flash!” card on which i can pull quadruple of the amount of games which exist at all for this console.

      the progress the homebrew developers made in the past two years is enormous, there have been created a lot of new games, mostly thanks to a BASIC SDK.

      the Inty eats up all of my time recently, and >200 games are a lot to try out… i don’t know where to start, if not with one i already know.

      A lot of kind ppl, and stuff to create from my side as well, i’m up to create box arts for games which never will be released on a cartridge.
      but the shit looks good on the computer if all games have their own boxes.

      something in topic of SSC (while not especially Pioneer, i thought about to open a thread for vintage space games)

      Do you know the “RCA Studio II programmer”
      it was a fail as console and hit the marked in 1978 when atari started out, unfortunately it’s only b&w and the games shedule is quite short (13).
      there was later derivates of this machine “in color”.

      one dev. (decle) automated the conversion of the machine language written games to a “Studio II” emulator, a emulator to use on a vintage console, quite uncommon.
      (he even made a more uncommon “simulator” of a absolutely rare system the “Unisonic Champion 1127”, it’s colored (wow!) but the games are even less, five officially published, almost all are card games and the controller of this console has only two buttons to control the games, “yes” & “no” (and a reset button, very useful to have it on the controller).

      however the most debated game is “Star Wars” i guess, it wasn’t released for the “Studio II” but for the systems based on the same processor which came after it (clones of, such as the “Hanimex MPT-02” read here: http://studioii.wikia.com/wiki/RCA_Studio_II_Wiki )

      Debated was for sure that this can’t be a official “star wars” title, but the game is cool for this age, you fly a X-Wing in a dogfight against a Tie-fighter. they are to recognize as the ships by the (quite rough) shape.

      however i like the game, even if it’s far to easy, but it’s a space game and a star-wars title from the early early 80’s and that’s quite something.

      the emulator to really try out the “MPC-02” or “Studio II” would be “Emma O2” which runs all of the “superchip” based consoles and computers.
      freaking enough to dig such out and create emulators, even more freaking to create homebrews for it, which exist, up to a sort of Pac-Man as far as it’s to recognize that it is “pac-man” or “space invaders” the graphics of the superchip are supercheap.
      and such is the developers handbook titled “the cheap graphics computer”.

      but i like the “StudioVision” best it emulates the “Studio II” on my Intellivision.

    • #110973

      Your Intellivision post shows up twice for me. Hopefully the site’s posting problems are fixed now. Look at the SSC Administration forum for information on that.
      I have some questions and comments about Phoenix. First, I really like the quotations on the startup screen.
      You asked above if I’d like to do a test, placing bases around a planet’s equator every 5 degrees. Do you still want me to do that? It would have to be a planet without surface water. When I accidentally put a base in water in my hometowns mod, the game would automatically put it someplace else. I’m sure it’s to prevent bases in water on procedurally generated planets. I could try it on the Moon in the current Linux build if that would do.
      Petra is at 61 Cygni. Cagnoli’s home seems too dark. Flying above the planet, I see a light brown horizon, but when looking down the ground is dark. I don’t know if that’s because of the lighting change mentioned above. It’s the only place she’s been other than Earth, so I’m not sure.
      I think the docking detection area on the outdoor1_4 may be too small. She had to land precisely in the center of the number for the landing to register. She earned enough money to buy an autopilot, but even though the landing looked good it didn’t register and caused some damage. The second try at landing worked.
      I get a low frame rate near cities running on Linux and WINE. I had the idea to try what walterar did with Scout Plus and put in the Linux executable, but I can’t find one for alpha 31. Does one exist? Perhaps I can compile it from source first, if I can find that.

    • #110975

      Hi Gernot, I don’t know how to access the PM system now, but my last post in this thread was about my Pioneer thread passing 100,000 views. I was just thanking and you, and all the other folk who worked on Pioneer through the years for all their wonderful work. ๐Ÿ™‚
      Messing around with an Intellivision Gernot? Cool! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #111175

      Which wich rided me when im posted the StudioVision stuff here?
      It doesn’t belongs here!

      I guess this still can happen, some posts vanished for me in “PC and Console Gaming” (where dammit the Studiovision belongs to and i even started a new thread about the “generation 0.5” of programmable home entertainment systems (pre Atari2600).

      Phew i totally lost the idea what it was about i asked you, my mind is full of Intellivision, i wrote i own this cool thingy now to hold all the games and additionally a very kind collector gifted me an Intellivoice expansion (imagine the first was broken. he stuffed cartridges in the box because “it costs me the same for shipping”, after i posted him that it didn’t works he immidiatly sended my a different one, older used but working again wit additional cartridges, the first was CIB unused – complete in box, damned i speak like a collector already).

      I remember (or start to, i have to warm up the reactor), it must have been because of my old problem with the unprecise result of pi in the game, or whatever causes the wrong results, but i can’t recently remember that i asked you for help? however that’s a nice offer.
      recently it isn’t important, if at all i would have get into it again first, if i think about Pioneer now or read my old posts i wonder that it was me who wrote and created all that, it’s hidden in a misty cloud, but once started it will come back.

      (and i’m thinking about to get into IntyBASIC how can i manage all this?)

      i will have to reads the old posts, but it has getting late – erm early in the morning.

      Yes it’s a wonderful toy, it makes me feel i’m 16 again, better 16 with the experiences of a 52 years old.
      And the community is a bunch of playful people, we joke a lot and have in general a good time.
      developers, hardware devs, players, collectors.

      off topic:
      we had a competition to color a “Running Man”, other “Intellivision” or “IntellivisionRevolution” adverts/posters.
      like to see my entry?
      Running Man

    • #111176

      I wouldn’t say it has no competitors even if one posted “Well, then. No need to finish my running-man attempt!”.
      Judge yourself:

    • #111177

      When i passed this euphoria i will pick up both Phoenix and FFED3D again, but i guess it will keep me very busy for the next time.
      I have 200 games to explore ๐Ÿ˜‰
      oh my, not all but some fascinate me extremely, recently it’s an unreleased procedural generated AD&D game.
      This is twice of interest for me, first because i like this game and because there is no manual to it it is a challenge to play it and to explore the clues of it. Second because it’s procedural generated, i like to force the homebrew devs to use this more, this is the intelligent in Intellivision.

      even if that is off topic to a clip of it though you get an idea of this old game,


      Also visit my new threads to “PC & console Gaming” if you like to.


      Space Battles and other exotic things from the past

    • #111368

      difficult posting from a phone ;(

      ok, what i had in mind was an old debate.
      now it’s not about the conspiracy i like to post which is the intentinal reason for this dementi of nvidia, it’s because about the old debate how space will look in space. the dudes of nvidia turned saddled up the horse from behind and liked to show that the moon landing was reality and prove this with a perfect simulation of the situation. but like i said that’s not the topic here. i like to show off with this that space is simply black in space as long as there is a central star in range. it was toms and my imagination, even knowledge that any else is kitsch. so here’s the clip.

    • #111369

      though, as dramatic simple toms drawing of space and our sun was, it is the right imagination. you know i always liked it. space is sober, brutally sober, hostile like nothing else. and imho the right contrast to fantasy based vessels, and occasionally inhabited worlds, they mark live. something very fragile in this hostile surrounding.

      until we meet again
      live long and prosperous


    • #111373

      didn’t know if i lost my last post i was offline for a while, while i was typing.

      i’ve got some good news to share, i bought a “new” computer, actually it’s not mine, i bought it for my mom.
      you know “all electrical devices work with smoke” and the macbook has lost its “smoke” ๐Ÿ™‚
      really, one fan was sticked with dust, i fixed that but it was truely damaged due to overheating.
      right today i bought a used dell notebook from a official Windows retailer, overhauled, with new batteries and a win 10 which belongs to us, registered and full support for a lousy 200 bucks. such i neither found on e-bay.

      next month i will buy for me from the same store an office machine for even a lousy 150 bucks, that means in fact i can slowly return to what i was up here on ssc, phoenix and ffed3d, finally.

      i’m euphoric like a little boy at x-mas right now, the cute dell is like a summerbreeze to me compared to the old macbook we used.

      well it takes sometimes a little longer, longer as i expected myself, but in the end it will work out fine.

      nah, almost, my best Buddy, the hool, is again in prison, asshole – he beated a railroad engineer
      “i just gave him a slap in the face, is that my responsability if he’s such a weak guy?”
      (the poor engineer fell down like strucked down by a lightning)
      i love him for such expressions, do you know that?
      they attested him “to much criminal energy” criminal energy – ts – usually criminal energy comes along in a Dress.
      also “brutal” yeah because he’s such a brutal guy the horses (he works with horses in the open prison) follow him without command.
      he’s an asshole – but i love him.
      nah, he’s not, a bit stupid sometimes and can’t control his own power.
      can you imagine a better best Buddy for me as him?
      me not.
      and he couldn’t imagine a better one as me.
      i have no prejudice, of course i had some reservations when i met him first – a hooligan?
      i had to learn a lot about that.
      of course he looks now different at his own past and certainly he’s more as just alright.
      a bit to much alright, he can’t stand injustice and likewise me it doesn’t matters who is handled unfair.
      unlike me he didn’t thinks to much and… well you know what.
      but hey, this is the right stuff.
      with someone like him you can conquer the world – hell even.

    • #111374

      Congratulation on your “new” computer!

    • #111520

      Hi folks (how many “folks” that ever might be).

      I started to again tinker somewhat on “Phoenix” since i had the idea to make it more fun to play.
      First i removed the quite strong fighters from the starting positions and moved the starting systems to the rim of known space.
      After this very basic change i recognized that the travel time for interplanetary runs such as reconning or delivery are not only to short with a fixed value of 4 days, as well for interplanetary distances of some systems if you jump in them to complete a mission, systems aren’t all like Sol with a extension of a couple of AU, some are many hundred AU wide.

      Have a look at it how that works now:


      Whichever position you choose you will have a rotten “Lander” with ZERO! equipment and a lousy 100 bucks.
      One who like to play this game, and this will stay for all future releases of mine, will haved to learn first how to fly the ship manually.
      It’s not as hard.

      The “Lander” is a very basic vessel but you can transform it to a quite good multipurpose ship.
      It has (together with my little large Shuttle) twice capacity as cargo space, this will allow you to mount up to 11 extra cabins.
      The “standard” is mentioned five (as many windows as you see on this erm… yes, spaceship). after mounting the 5 cabins you still have 30 tons for cargo left but the ship will be overloaded due to such, this means you probably can’t lift anymore from a planets surface and for sure it boosts fuel consumption because your acceleration will be lowered to a couple of G.

      The fuel consumption i chose for all ships is quite high and it anything else as easy to manage time and fuel for long distances (refere to the clip, when i contracted to the second mission i loaded 12 tons of additional fuel but still i nearly ran out of fuel and was very luck to have enough spare time to complete the mission with the few drops of water left in the fueltank (the autopilot can manage it if you use up 10 tons manually and use another 10 tons to break with the autopilot – but unfortunately you won’t have an autopilot).

      Additionally i did a mean treat and bound the consumption to the standard drive fittet to a ship, thus look out for ships wihich have a small drive because they will keep their lower fuel consumption compared to one with a larger drive and same capacity.

      Overall and since i still didn’t worked on vital stuff like trading the game is still bareboned and not really well to play.
      But it’s already good if you start it, to advance to something useful and leave the sytem for the first time is already a goal.
      It can be interesting to find a way back to Sol, of courseb you know where it is – sector 0,0,0 but well how to get there (without to lose the track).

      Recently only the interplanetary cargo runs use the new expression for travel time but i will add this to all timed missions.
      The idea behind is that one can get a life only by performing action in the starting system also this is needed because you start with the lame Lander and no equipment.

      The recent expression i use is as follows (someone might be interested in it, especially if this still stays in Pioneer):

      predefined variables:
      -- typical distance in one day (approx. 2AU/day, this is a "while playing" evaluated value)
      local meters_per_day = 300000000000
      -- make seconds
      local day_in_seconds = 84600 (simply 24*60*60 as one number)

      addition to the interplanetry cargo missions (at very bottom of the “make_advert” function “local delivery” section):

      local traveltime = (dist / meters_per_day) / math.log(dist / meters_per_day)

      — distance to target divided with approx. 2AU/day (results in days for distance to target, 1 AU = 149’597’828’680m) divided with logarithm of traveltime*86400 (24*60*60, results in seconds) provides a shorter traveltime for longer interplanetary distances, this is needed because in 4 days you never will reach a possible distance of i.e. 100 AU or greater.
      the expression looks maybe a bit strange, but that was the best way i found how to use the logarithm for it, it will divide the time for long distances more as for short and that was my goal because if you travel a long distance your mediacre speed will be far above 2AU per day and for short runs under 2AU per day.

      due = Game.time + (traveltime * day_in_seconds) * (Engine.rand:Number(1.0,2.0) - urgency)
      — reduced bandwith of rand, we have time enough but missions with a high urgency will be very short in time due to that

      the whole thing needs still some finetuning, up to 3 Months for 700 AU (likewise in the clip) is still to much, if i wouldn’t have run out of fuel i would have made it in 2 months.
      This can be reached by setting the “meters_per_day” value higher for the logarithm or lowering the “meters_per_day” for the typical traveltime.
      Recently it looks good to me, in other test runs i had only about 2 months time to complete the mission which was my intentional goal and what i evaluated in this quite special system.
      Any of the 4 starting positions is equal or almost equal to this situation, multiple star systems with short and long distances between the stations/cities.

      The fuel consumption i will keep this high because this means fighters aren’t suitable to make deliveries and shuttles aren’t useful to fight.
      Each ship for its special purpose which probably means you will have to change the ship to fulfill a certain mission.

      I assume one with more depth in understanding maths will know a better way how to use math.log to lower the traveltime for very long distances.

      Sidenote, i discovered a system where the accompainig stars orbit goes through the central star, i liked to make a clip of it but unfortunately the mass reading of the central star is that high you never get in orbit around it’s partner thus i would have to wait to long if i can’t use the “stardreamer”. But i realy would have liked to see how this looks if a star inclusive his planets dives into another.
      (how in all the galaxy can they have a orbit? and how do they survive this?)

      erm yes – i fixed “new york” by moving it a tidbit, the “dry” position is:
      latitude = 40.43
      longitude = 74.1
      it must have been placed before unluckyly in the hudson river ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #111531

      that’s a very nice font you use now fo SSC.

    • #111532

      Still the FFE ships look nice in Pioneer – don’t they?

    • #111746

      recent progress

      the idea with the start location “far off” turned out well, i like it and it’s fine to start as a nobody with a nobody ship. but well to start always at the same locations isn’t what i thought of.
      thus i created a table of useful systems to start with a shuttle without anything useful.
      the drawback is that if i compile the source the systems will be most probably different and this fixed
      table won’t work anymore. the next step is to create the table from the generated factions (because i can request them already at start) and select the most populated body as start location, this will work then however it’s build. but i could use some help here i’m not experienced in this and it will take me a long time to understand it. the drawback of this would be that many locations won’t be useful to start with a shuttle without a hyperdrive because there probably aren’t enough stations which are far enough from each to make good money with delivering interplanetary packages. however i think this is cool to start, you have to make at least one manual controlled flight before you have the money for an autopilot. to make it a little more fun i created a couple of shuttles which are the same in price and capbilities though you can’t make money in a sleek way and exchange an expensive ship with a cheaper one (รคtsch!). the start locations are selected random at start of the game (but you have the possibility to make it fixed in “MainMenu.lua”). there is only one location to see, one of recently 45 possible locations. if you click on “start at…” a random shuttle will be selected, thus if you dislike the ship just exit and restart from the main menu and you will have most probably a different ship of recently 5, “Dinghy”, “Lander”, “Light Shuttle”, “Mining Vessel” and “Sightseeing Boat”. a sixth vessel is planned it will be a lifter based on the same parts as the shuttles are (the Dinghy will probably have to vanish for this, it doesn’t suits to the new ships anymore i feel).


    • #111747

      Picload like to lead ppl to their site, they live from advertisement (i understand, it’s free), but well SSC and even i don’t like this. i have to call the picture and use the pictures link, that works!

    • #111751

      whenever i it was possible i selected the the most beautiful view a start system offers.
      sometimes they are real beauties and sometimes ugly as hell.

    • #111752

      ugly as hell?

      this one is an an asteroid and even a second one is on an even smaller spikey asteroid, one? i guess on this small dustball are at least two stations, you can call it easy overpopulated.

      this happens mostly if you select the system from multiple star systems, some are really well populated
      other are lonely as deep space.

    • #111753

      the shuttles are my first conceptual ships which contain a random setup, sometimes the cockpit is below, sometimes on top.
      planned is like i said a “lifter” (Container Lifter) and as final workout of this idea a “Posbi”, a “positronic biologic” ship as it was mentioned in the “perry rhodan” novelle. OK it won’t be exactly like this but a random setup ship which will alter it’s look, looking somewhat irregular, no one said that spaceships have to look like we imagine them. imagine a a race of robots how would they create ships?
      only by respecting the purpose of them and not any design, it needs no aerodynamic or any other criteria except purpose. imagine a set of cubes arranged chaotically, at least it will look chaotic to us.
      yes i do felt that star trek has adapted this idea for the “Borg” civilization, while the Borg cubes doesn’t look like i imagined the “Posbi” ships, Borg are cubes, Posbi are whatever they found in space and found as useful to link to the ship, no cubes each of irregular and unique look.

      if you sit in a ants hill you don’t have to wonder that they will fight back ๐Ÿ˜‰

      The most uncommon looking already might be the “Hair Dryer” (Mining Vessel) orb the “Sightseeing Boat”.
      “Mining Vessel” is a manned cargo scoop device, the only shuttle with a weapon mounting (recently the mining laser is far to expensive to be useful, it wasn’t a good idea to make it such steep in price mining isn’t of interest if you are rich, if it would be cheaper it woul probably even make sense to start in a low populated system and do the hard life of a miner. with it’s low shot frequency it’s not to use as weapon, thus the price isn’t reasonable from the view of gameplay, as soon as i fixed such in the source, if i ever start again to do that, then i will make it this low in price that it will be useful). “Sightseeing Boat” is… hmmm well it is.

      no real beauties but veryb good to start as Jameson with a lousy 100 credits and a shitty shuttle.
      it isn’t that shitty and exactly right to make interplanetary runs, take care the fueluse of my ships is somewhat high, especially if you have to travel distances between 300 and 1500 (!) AU (while the position of this extreme case of 1500 AU distance between sister stars i forgot – unfortunately. i discovered it on my first travel home to Sol from a far off location.

      youe see you have already a gameplay, Pioneer needs just some good ideas to turn from an eye candy to something which is fun to play, restrictions make the game and not i start with the best fighter available or can sell ship or equipment to make money.

      being bound to the starting system is already a gameplay, you like to leave it but first make some money, before you can be a “star” and buy a ship like this

      (pic follows)

    • #111754

      like this one:


      (cy ra pi = pi ra cy)

    • #111755

      Some “new” buildings, mostly adaptions of buildings i created for FFED3D, of course only scripted geometry.

      this example is textured using my new texturemapper function, bam bam bam – finished!

    • #111756

      ah yeah – i’ve read by someone, i forgot where that was, that a spaceship will need “idon’t know how many” thrusters to maneuver. Cyrapi MKI has only 11 thrusters and this will be enough to rotate along all three axes in both directions clockwise and counter clockwise. the hovering to left and right will be somewhat difficult, but i can imagine this can be stabilzed by a board computer using the reverse thrusters to counter the single side thrusters.
      ideal would be at least 14 and maximal 16 but not more as this dude stated.

      like this
      top  +
         +   +
         +   +
         +   +
      side (2x)

      equal as the Cyrapi is set up.
      do you notice something?
      three axes and four thrusters per axis in general.
      “und 3 X 4 sind nach Adam Riese immer noch 12 und nicht 16”

      if you hover to the side the the side thruster the opposite reverse thruster will control the hovering and rear (main) will correct the backwards trend due to this behave.

      to hover isn’t really needed if you can rotate (Elite control).

      Ha, and if i guess of my recently disabled “Atomic X1” Rocket it can’t hover and has no retro thrust (close to “0” isn’t valid but a thrust of 1 (not 1e”something”, simply 1) is almost equal to 0, it’s only a small fraction of 1G, very low maneuvering thrust of 1G (shut off main to maneuver manually and get in position – fire main thrust – shut off main correct course and so on… and nonetheless you can control this Rocket. Hard but you can maneuver by rotating and decelerate by flipping the vessel.
      It has in fact only 9 thrusters but the Rocket would be to maneuver.
      thus in fact even if it’s hard and hard to believe a space ship, especially a rocket of some sort can be maneuvered with only 9 thrusters.

    • #111757

      a few words to the font i used for the labels, the font is called “Sailer” and it’s based on the font of Intellivisions “TRON – Solar Sailer” game. i used different ones before mostly with rounded edges but since every curve needs a lot of tringles to be displayed auch a simple font based on rectangular tiles is much lower in polygon use, each rectangle needs only two triangles to be displayed, and it didn’t looks bad – no in fact it looks pretty good and has a fixed with, much better as what we used before when the glyphs stood such close together that it was sometimes very hard to read also stuff like clocks will look better with a monospaced font. further i can tell more exactly how the width will be if i use my auto fontscaler to bound a fontsize to a given space of glyphs in a determined scale.

    • #111758

      because Cyrapi means piracy (the ship is loosely based on the design of the “Krait”) i drove this further and pirated the FE2 materials (as good as i could) and they turned out pretty good, 16 materials by the way, as if we wouldn’t have guessed already that they will be 16.

      mostly grey, red, green, yellow or blue scented grey, but i like them, they look so FE2-ish.

      then displayed name “Lunar Pod” in the model viewer and on the ship displayed in the main menu is a complete coincidence, totally random, i changed a little the way i randomized them and it turned out that now the random name generation leads to “Lunar Pod”, just if one guesses it was forced it isn’t.

      i really had to laugh when i displayed my shuttle and readed “Lunar Pod” yes that what it is a lunar pod, not much more.

    • #111761

      btw you can imagine the sixteen fe2 colors are all based on…
      multiples of 16, what i captured wasn’t exactly but very soon i noticed that the values are all close to multiples of 16. except the two non-colors white & black. the colors harmonize very well and i already think of something similar, more aren’t needed for spaceship and all look very good as hull, most are grey which gives the hull a metallic look in a scent of a color, the only exclusion is the bloodred which is simply 50% red (128), it’s surprising how good this simple color looks, mostly it was only used as accent color but i guess the eagle mkiii is sometimes bloodred. for the specular colors i just added “0.5” to each so that it keeps the note likewise for fe2.

      the “Native Father” (of the “Cyrapi MKI”)

    • #111763

      the most saturated blue in the fe2 colorset

      more saturation isn’t good for shiphulls, the colorset is really very good looking.

    • #111764

      due to the very bright texture my old adder has always a very metallic look.

    • #111766

      if i’m not wrong this is what i named “blue steel” there is also a green and a yellow scented one but they are very close.

      recently i only used it for the FE2 ships and the Cyrapi, but i really like the colorset.
      i prefere it to the often to much saturated and to dark random materials of the generic pioneer.

      a listing by the nicknames i gave them, though you get an idea what 16 colors they are
      sepia (i didn’t found a better name for the dark version of copper)
      tan (turned out to be gold, i gave the names when i wrote down the numbers and i didn’t knew exactly how they will look)

      as you see i sorted them (in the table i use) always the bright followed by the darker version, with exception of tan (gold) and bloodred which stand somwhat alone but of course gold harmonizes well with bloodred. i guessed of selecting them in pairs (of even & odd numbers) but as it turned out i haven’t to because how i randomized the selection it turned out to be mostly following this rule. mostly is better as always. it uses to select a darker and a brighter one, not always of the same color but at least a bright and a dark one, that’s very well.

      FE2 or not, i started first with a own colorset, is better as completly random.

      in future i will create a special set for fighters with mostly green & brown colors and one with more agresive colors for anything else as fighters. but as you know rules are only valid due to exceptions.

    • #111770

      a few words to the buildings.
      when i started to adapt my FFED3D buildings i thought of using the same positioning as it’s in FE2/FFE. the buildings are centered on the most far left side corner if you view them from front this leads to that they will never be on the exact opposite side when they get rotated and this looks very good in FE2

                |  |
        +----+  0--+    
        |    |    
        +----0     0----+
                   |    |
             +--0  +----+
             |  |         

      but unfortunately i forgot that due to this some will vanish almost complete in a hill if the are rotated “wrong”, means the pivot is on the flank and depending on how it’s rotated the building will be either inside or outside of the hill.

      unfortunately i had to trash this idea.

      overall i would still prefere something made of larger city quarters, two things are in the way, mostly the terrain.

    • #111777

      to much code hm? ah it’s just code because of the schemas which i made using glyphs, but to display it right it must be a monospaced font like for the code.

    • #111778

      in general i like this type of “needleprinter” or typewriter graphics, and yes it had it’s revival already.

        *              *
       / \            / \
      /   \          /   \
      \   /  4-TRIS  \   /
       +-+            +-+
       |o|            |o|
       | |++++++++++++| |
       |o|            |o|
       | |     __     | |
       |o|    /  \    |o|
       | |    |JZ|    | |
       by Joseph Zbiciak

      this one is designed for the “LTO Flash!” a Intellivision Flash ROM which will display manuals (apart from the main task to store all the roms as binary images) in a resolution of 20 rows and 12 lines, which fits to a NTSC tube TV’s resolution of 352ร—240.

      a quite differnt type of “CGI” ๐Ÿ˜‰

      to some old is just old – to me it’s vintage and precious.

      one who understands why Tetris is such a long time runner will create better games, i’m convinced about that.

    • #111780

      today i was looking for industrial building textures (if i wouldn’t be such a lazy ass we have a lot of modern industrial buildings in Wattwil). However, i stumbled over Flightsimulator and how they generate buildings, generate one must say and it’s something very obvious. Buildings are background art and doesn’t need to be detailed, in general a cube with a texture on each side. The cool thing is that they even dont need to build the buildings, the system is also obvious, you have uniform tiled texturemaps and just say no.xxx is the front face, the front face itself is a quad – nothing else. I guess right now with the mapper function, if i extend that a little, something similar is easy possible, one would just have to tell which sections of the map you like to use for which viewplane and enter the size of the building you like to have, the output will be the finished building.

      sidetrip, one was asking for slanted roofs (they turned out very funny), yeah it’s possible but well this makes such a mapper very complex if i can even rotate the viewplane and the face, the face is less a problem as to respect that in the mapper, fixed not as much if i tell all slanted roofs have this or a short table of angles, but if i like to rotate free it’s a brainfucker to respect that (i’m up to, it just didn’t works yet as i expect, the goal is a real use of the projection vector so you can enter i.e v(deg_to_rad(30),1,0) and the mapping will be in this angle, recently my mapper only supports integer vectors, in other terms the three basic viewplanes (6, negative numbers are respected to flip the texture, left is the a little complicated thing to rotate a texture that “up” in the texture becomes left or right, i would need an additional vector for this but this again makes the function call more complex, but if you make a map you can respect this that you can’t rotate the projection in this way and rotate the respective texture on the map you create).

      if all would be set up perfect one could make a “for” (for 1, #bldtexmaps do) routine which outputs generated buildings in masses based on uniform tiled texturemaps. the only work left would be to assemble the texture maps by a given scheme. it won’t have to be a map for variuos bld’s like in FS, one bld per map would be fine as well.

      generated buildings
      generated space ships? ๐Ÿ˜‰

      OK no this goes to far, i’m happy if i can put together one random assembled ship.

    • #111776

      looks like my texturemapper still needs to be moderated, you know me im a “prinzipienreiter” someone who cares a lot (we care a lot …) aboout the basic understanding of a topic, it’s something this button presser generation leaks strongly of.

      i found a very deep explanation to 3D view and UV mapping in “Google Books”, for those who like to get deeper knowledge about this as just to fiddle around with a software which won’t tell you the rules that stand behind.

      however i did that in advance all myself and to create something like a texturemapper i had to know how the tard works. most i knew already but there was still some questions i couldn’t have answered before i made some test models. the starting point for my texmapper was Tom “noflag” Morton’s (noflag is very important to me ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) “cuboid” function. I extended this function to a textured cuboid which will be textured automatically from all sides with the same texture (instead of a lousy diagonal projection which is still handy in some cases).

      remember this tard is all out of my shitty brain, i have no web at home where i could have referred to something like the above link.

        +---+---+  +------  \   /  +      +      +      +-----+  +-----+  +------  +-----+
            |      |         \ /   |\    /|     / \     |     |  |     |  |        |     |
            |      +----      /    | \  / |    /___\    +-----+  +-----+  +----    +-----+
            |      |         / \   |  \/  |   /     \   |        |        |        |   \
            |      +------  /   \  |      |  /       \  |        |        +------  |    \ 
                          (should have done this a long time ago)
      - position & size of the geometry on which the texture will be projected on
      - projection = view plane - side from which you look at the geometry, 
        v(0,1,0) = top (bottom), v(0,0,1) = back (front), v(1,0,0) = right side (left side) 
      - divisor, correctional vector either to repeat a texture i.e. v(1.5,1,1) to tile it 
        1.5 times along "x", or to adjust the result if the size doesn't exactly fits
      a table which contains the three vectors for the texture projection
      why didn't use the texture() function rightaway?
      just because :)
      just because it allows to store the vectors as a variable and 
      reuse them in the script if needed and foremost this allows manual tuning and if i
      output the fished call for the texture function you can't do such.
        |                                                                                        |
        |   local front = texmapper( position, size, v(0,0,1) )                                  |
        |   texture( 'texturepath', front[1], front[2], front[3] )                               |
        |                                                                                        |
      a texture is always 1 in relation to the geometries dimensions. to calcultae the factor
      to scale a geometry on any texture no matter what size or aspect it has we have to divide
      1 with the dimensions of the geometry we like to project the texture on, resp. project the
      mesh on the plane of view).
      this wil strech a texture sometimes so much it turns out quite ugly
      to keep a texture in it's aspect & size (repetive use of the texture) we must recompensate
      this default behaviour by multiplying the resulting scale with the models dimension
      so it turns back to the original size in relation to the texture.
      the use varies, often you simply like to project atexture on a couple of geometries. 
      Geometry (righthanded):
               |   front/back
        side   0---------- +x
             /    top/bottom 
      Texture plane (righthanded):
           +V +---------+ UV max
              |         |
              |         |
              |         |
              |         |
       UV min 0---------+ +U
      one likes to map a geometry on a texture map which contains different textures for
      the model(s).
      if you have a special texture map or need 
      to project the mesh on a given section in the texture you need to precalculate 
      the correctiomnal values for the position of the mesh and its size in relation
      to the textures dimensions.
      i didn't liked to implment this function in the mapper, it's fine for 'everyday use'

      it’s a quite simpler explanation as to read a book, of course you won’t have deep understing after my explanation but it will make you clear why certain things are as they are.

      btw, it’s possible to use this function also for texture maps which contain different textures for various parts/viewplanes. i wasn’t sure how and if when i wrote it and wrote also a second function the “texture calculator” it didn’t turned out well and thus i returned to my mapper an i experienced it’s suitable also for this task.

      i didn’t expect that the interest will be big in this but i’m very proud of what i elaborated myself.

      finally a picture which i already posted (but i unfortunately made a mistake with the labelling, at 6:00 am after a 24h session your brain starts to get very tired)

      i guess the picture tells more as a thousend words you can lose about this topic.

    • #111750

      yes, i remember one link per per post else it has to be moderated, ok.

      except that i created the bunch of shuttles i did some work to the lmr functions and it gets easier step by step. finally i achieved it to make a texturing function, it’s not perfect and still you need to edit the output of it especially if you like to map the geometry in a certain section of the texture (map).

      but it’s already cool and i should have written this a long time ago, it’s a very useful function, you no longer have to fiddle around emdless until you find especially the proper scale, the positioning is somewhat rough, for a simple mapping it’s ok but if you measure a texture and use the “UV” data it multiplies small errors to big ones.

      to reach this i started with the cuboid function and used it to find out how it can work and how the UV projection is for a righthanded model system (remember i have no web at home, so no help from any wiki or else, this is all my personal work)

        +---+---+  +------  \   /  +      +      +      +-----+  +-----+  +------  +-----+
            |      |         \ /   |\    /|     / \     |     |  |     |  |        |     |
            |      +----      /    | \  / |    /___\    +-----+  +-----+  +----    +-----+
            |      |         / \   |  \/  |   /     \   |        |        |        |   \
            |      +------  /   \  |      |  /       \  |        |        +------  |    \ 
                          (should have done this a long time ago)
      - position & size of the geometry on which the texture will be projected on
      - projection = projection vector - side from which you look at the geometry, 
        v(0,1,0) = top (bottom), v(0,0,1) = back (front), v(1,0,0) = right side (left side) 
      - divisor, correctional vector either to repeat a texture i.e. v(1.5,1,1) to tile it 
        1.5 times along "x", or to adjust the result if the size doesn't exactly fits
      a table which contains the four vectors for the texture projection
      why didn't use the texture() function rightaway?
      just because :)
      just because it allows to store the vectors as a variable and 
      reuse them in the script if needed further and this is most important you can trim the result
      which is unfortunately needed if you use a texturemap divided in sections for parts/viewplanes.
        |                                                                                        |
        |   local front = texmapper( position, size, v(0,0,1) )                                  |
        |   texture( 'texturepath', front[1], front[2], front[3] )                               |
        |                                                                                        |
        |   check the test model to understand how to use the functions results                  |
        |                                                                                        |
      a texture is always 1 in relation to the geometries dimensions. to calcultae the factor
      to scale a geometry on any texture no matter what size or aspect it has we have to divide
      1 with the dimensions of the geometry we like to project the texture on, resp. project the
      mesh on the plane of view).
      this wil strech a texture sometimes so much it turns out quite ugly
      to keep a texture in it's aspect & size (repetive use of the texture) we must recompensate
      this default behaviour by multiplying the resulting scale with the models dimension
      so it turns back to the original size in relation to the texture.
      the use varies, often you simply like to project atexture on a couple of geometries. 
      Geometry (righthanded):
               |   front/back
        side   0---------- +x
             /    top/bottom 
      Viewplane (righthanded):
           +V +---------+ UV max
              |         |
              |         |
              |         |
              |         |
       UV min 0---------+ +U
      one likes to map a geometry on a texture map which contains different textures for
      the model(s).
      if you have a special texture map or need 
      to project the mesh on a given section in the texture you need to precalculate 
      the correctiomnal values for the position of the mesh and its size in relation
      to the textures dimensions.
      i didn't liked to implment this function in the mapper, it's fine for 'everyday use'

      yep you can learn something here ๐Ÿ˜‰

      isn’t that a nice textured cube?

      as one can see pioneer makes a fraction of an failure when projecting a texture, you can see here a very small border from the black groundlines to the next repetion ( a reason why i made this one sided border because i noticed this slight failure before). as larger the object is and as more the texture will probably streched as larger this error will be – unfortunately.

    • #111805

      Wonderful work here Gernot. It’s nice too to see the Shuttle be much more useful for a change and the Kestrel looks really great in the colour too! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #111866

      i agree the FE2 colorset fits very well but will be reserved for the FE2/FFE ships.

      i’ve spent 2 days creating a 256 colors palette (table) – which i can’t use ๐Ÿ™
      i can use it partwisely or as template, anyway 256 materials no one needs.

      the base was the “atari 256” a very nice palette, quite natural looking with less saturated colors, i like it and even mom said “hey they look nice” (much better as the windows or mac standard 256 colors).
      i needed two days to fit the colors to multiples of 8 of 256 to 1 (because we use in pioneer values from 0 to 1 for r,g,b)

      the palette isn’t exactly “atari256” anymore i had to fit them to multiples of 8 (wanted to because it will alter them slightly) and changed a few because i liked to have a the best possible color gradient i could reach and i guess i reached it well. like i said i can use the paltte
      i elaborated for other things to (like converting pictures as wallpapers for the Amiga OS3 using a standard palette or similar tasks). it has no big use for pioneer but it was at least a good job i’ve made.

      yes, it was the biggest fault of the factory which educated me as textiletechnician not to engage me as a colorist (they preferred to take a relative of the owner for the job, i’m still somewhat angry about that even if that is 35 years ago). “idiots!” it costed me my carrer as textiltechnician because i lost interest to work for the industry and moved to the construction site, mostly because of the salary and because they put an uneducated in a position where someone like me would belong, education and talent, i earned nearly double as an unskilled on the construction site as i earned as educated in my branch (no responsability as unskilled worker), fault no. 2 of them, from my pov. in general nepotism is something which has cost us to much in the past, wrong ppl in the wrong place, “dead wood”.

    • #111867

      something different

      doesn’t that looks like a stormtrooper riding a bearded giant?
      happened under circumstance with a seamless texture i made of a simple piece of rock.

    • #111868

      To me it looks like one of the flying monkeys from The Wizard of Oz riding a jet ski.

    • #111869

      i like the shuttles much. you have to manage fuelconsumption and time well for distances above 300 AU, it’s a task of its own. the autopilot isn’t a big help even once you have earned enough to buy one you need to load extra fuel but not to much else you will be to slow. you can use the autopilot set the course to target, then you will have to accelerate manually until you used up a little more as half of the fuel you loaded totally (you need less to break because you have only about half of the mass). after you passed the “zenith” of your flight you can re engage the autopilot and let it break and finally dock. sometimes i miss the point even if i should know when to stop it can easy take 15 minutes until you reached the “zenith” (or point of no return) and sometimes i oversleep it simply, sometimes i forgot to reload the fuel and engage the “stardreamer” and miss the right point, a couple of AU to late it might be to late to brake and you won’t have fuel reserves to make a lot of maneuvres if you overshoot. overall it needs experience, load to much fuel and you’re to slow and will need to much time and even to much fuel, you need to find the right balance for the ship, distance, time.

      you need many such “boring” transports to earn enough for a ship with a hyperdrive and then probably a pirate will vaporate you, the will await you more often as i remembered from std. pioneer. i changed them from “slow transporters” to “agressive fighters” and spawn them near to you so you will have to fight.

      certainly one likes to get to sol – good luck!

      i already think about a hidden mission for that, something special you will earn if you reached this goal e.g. some points which will release further missions or a permission for something which was restricted (one could even just play a fanfare – ta taa ๐Ÿ˜‰ ).
      fortunately you can depend on a co-pilot this will help a lot, i’m still clumsy in fighting down enemy ships. fortunately you can escape them often without to battle and if it’s a scout mission which spawns an enemy you can most probably trick him by simply rough landing your ship or get very close to the surface, he will crash.
      similar to “FE2” i also like to prevent that you can enter certain systems, in my case “alpha centauri” is such a system which is ment to enter it only with permission, it’s already an “enclave” and i “only” have to find a way to respect such, similar could be done with any of the factions or at least some of them. many starting locations are already the home system of a faction this i already said i like to get in future from the table of factions and you will be probably bound to this faction except for the independent, federal, imperial & corporated until you reached a certain goal. i.e. some scout missions end already in a different system as you contracted for the mission, this could be extended to if you successfully transferred the data to the client you will earn the permission for a faction – sometimes, i don’t like to tell the player which mission that will be, this should be hidden and randomly, if you reached it certainly you will be told that you reached it and of course it should be reflected in your profile which permissions you obtained. it could also be a taxi mission and because you contracted with this or that client you could gain or lose something. attractive ones like in FFE, makes you rich very quick but will prevent you from something which appears later. all should be as much random as possible so that unlike in FFE you won’t know in advance which client/mission even if you play it for a 2nd time, you shouldn’t exactly know what awaits you. with the “gelios”, recently i renamed this beast to “shyrkay”, i still have something in mind, i like spawn them at least in the orbit of gas giants what i like to do with them is open, the idea is that you can hunt them but will be fined in some way for doing so or vice versa gain something or both an advantage/disadvantage so you won’t know exactly if it’s good or not to hunt them, something like whaling in space, could be fined i.e in well policed systems while other systems will even pay for hunting them “charged for the crime of space whaling” :). one could prevent the player to enter i.e. the federation until you did something special to get rid of this criminal record, even this should change from game to game, if i fine you “forever” no one will hunt them at all, but if it’s open if you can get rid of the criminal record and the restriction it will be interesting again. this is all future music, recently i’m still creating models and didn’t work to much on the mission scripts, this exceeds a little my capabiities, resp. i have to learn a lot. but at least i know what i like to reach and it gets step by step a little clearer how to make of this still bareboned game something which can be attractive to play.

      dammit yes, we have the factions and military we just have to do something with that.

    • #111870

      The “big burn” method, that takes me back Gernot. ๐Ÿ™‚ I used this method all the time in FE2. Was pretty much essential if you had a mission to Alpha Centauri! Using just the autopilot would take far too long. ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

    • #111875

      yes it comes close to this with the exception that there is no getting around this method at beginning of the game. or yes there is a getting around start at “Sol”, but you will earn only little money at Sol which means it will take years to get an autopilot and “decades” to get the money for a better ship. to gain 20’000 bucks with a profit of 25 to 100 credits each run won’t get you far. systems like “Alpha Centauri” which is again a triple system and a distance of 500AU between the stations will offer you around 500 bucks and more each run.

      you are truely a nobody, a “jameson”.
      like to do some scout missions, to make some extra credits?
      you will have to decide to buy an autopilot with your first hard earned money or a radar mapper.

      this makes the start to a game without that i had to change a lot of things, i only fitted walterars missions to the posible large distances. the taxi stuff i still didn’t solved, i like to have interplanetary taxi missions, so that the “sightseeining boat” makes some sense even if such is in reality out of question, to enjoy a space flight while you meet on the leisure deck and drink some syntherol while you visit mars.

      unfortunately the bulletin board is still quickly filled with missions in populated systems with many spaceports. i did my best to remove them earlier, they are removed now after roundabout half of the mission durance, also depending on the urgency, urgent missions will be removed after 1/3 of the durance. perhaps i have to make this even tighter because there is even no way to finish a low urgency mission already after 1/3 of the suggested durance. in very wide systems above 1000AU the missions will stay for many months (up to three and more for scout missions) this fills the bb quite easy with “junk”. to restrict that by a sort of limit i didn’t find a good option, this will mean that you probably have to wait very long for a mission you can contract to which suits to your lousy ship. some locations might have only three spaceports and one is on a planet with low density, once i stated in such a system and had already to wait almost a year until one appeared to the station which was farthest away from me, on the return i hadn’t wait so long, there was only one spaceport in this corner of the system and three in the other. missions which last only a day will be removed after 12 hours, sometimes they get removed this fast you won’t have time to stop the stardreamer before it’s removed, even if i limited the shortest time to 24hrs. this was needed because i count in days and the logarithm turns “1” to a negative fraction of “1”, even if i remove the key signature it will be only a fraction of a day. of course one or two hrs is enough to fly from London to New York, but like i said they will be removed to quick to react on them. the logarithm is needed to respect that i need relatively longer per AU for a distance of 10AU as i need for >100AU or 1000AU. i use a estimated middle of 300000000000 meters per day which is in other terms ~2AU/day. if you lower this you can make it harder or vice versa easier. perhaps it would make sense instead to divide the traveltime to days to do it vice versa to multiply the suggested mission durance to hours, in this way the logarithm will never output negative values and the curve is probably better and even more acute for long distances. i’m not very good when it comes to using a logarithm, in fact it was pretty the first time i used one at all and i’m sure it could be used better if i.e. TomM would do it or guide me through that.

      on the other hand i’m satisfied, it does what i expect of it to lower the mission durance more as longer the distance is. maybe a table would be better as to use a logarithm in this way i could control the resulting curve better.

      i guess i wrote this already we have multiple systems in pioneer with up to 1500AU, or to say it right this was the widest system i have visited so far i don’t know if there is a limit to that, neither i know if we can count such still as multiple star system. it’s the problem we have already with “alpha Centauri” is it or is it not? the distance is extreme and it’s impossible even in many decades to recognize a movement resp. an orbit of proxima around alpha.

      for at least one multiple system i discovered a whole subsystem passing through the giant main star, there couldn’t be such a thing it’s a impossibilty. the FE2 like structing of them at all is out of the question but ok for a game.
      obviousely you get no mass reading for the small companion in this example, not to guess about its planets. however it’s sad i couldn’t engage the stardreamer because i would have liked to make a clip of the situation when the subsystem passes through the main star and leaves it without to get a scratch from that, in fact it would simply be vaporized or assimilated by the main star, not so in pioneer.

      what i wonder at all, does anybody except lunatic gernot have ever explored the outer rim of the explored space? you find many exceptions there, extreme wide systems, contact binaries and even this very strange system.

      it was a good idea to start at the outer rim it’s also part of the fun. i debated this when we decided to make the galaxy as big as it is in reality, “do you ever will fly this far out? do you still know where you are?” most won’t fly this far off to even reach one of the 99 (in my case 150) generated factions, mostly they are far from Sol and coincidentially “150” turned out that at least some was in reach if you start at Sol or any of our common 3 factions. but since you are on the outer rim you will or like to return to sector “0,0,0”.

    • #111880

      a clip of the WIP

    • #111881
    • #111882

      your’e right marcel, it could be as well a jet ski ๐Ÿ™‚

      “big burn”, in FE2 respectively the CD32 version of you can fool the game if you save to the non-volatile memory of the CD32 (there wasn’t any other option in fact except to save a common savegame to ram which will be erased after a reset), complete the mission even if you’re to late, save to nv memory, reload, mission successfully completed, while unfortunately you have to approach a second time, the nv savegame saves resp. reloads the state as you enter the system that’s also why you complete the mission successfully because you finished the mission but when you load the time is when you entered the system (sometimes it fails but if you restart the game and reload it should work everytime). usually i avoid missions to “alpha centauri” in FE2.
      i played FE2 this spring, started a career in both the PC-DOS version and the CD32 version, i prefere the CD32 version, you can’t cheat using the “wormhole bug” and most of all you have the “new zz1 navigation aid” whithout that it can get very boring to zoom always to the navigation targets in system view.

      “Frontier” is after all this years still a gem. as deeper i get into “pioneer” as more i respect the work of david braben. all the clever solutions packed into “a couple of kbytes” that really overwhelms me.

      certain things we can never reach, like the clever arranged cities from city tiles, sometimes buildings get exchanged on a tile and overall it’s not possible with a shaded surface like we have in pioneer. in FE2/FFE the cities fly above the real surface but you won’t notice this thus you can arrange the tiles, center the buildings on one corner instead to the center and they will appear in a reasonable way when they are rotated. one must have first all this ideas, i just copy them or try to if it’s possible.

      damned i thought i can copy this for pioneer and recentered all the new buildings to this scheme until i recognized it won’t work, either they stand in the air when they are positioned on a hillside or the whole building vanishes in the hill, stupid me i should have known this.

      the tiles would be possible if we (i) would pick up s20dan’s idea to flatten the terrain for the cities. first i wasn’t convinced of this idea but it would be the best way for pioneer, it would allow me to design the cities from larger city tiles instead of the disorderly arranged way (you might remember that i did that once, but it works halfaways for i.e. London, but it won’t work for a city which is placed on a spiky asteroid, the whole city would fly above the ground if it would be leveled to the spaceport.

      ok, that’s something i still like to get solved, outdoor and underground cities, it’s stupid to have common buildings like skyscrapers on a planet with no breathable atmosphere, imo they should be seperated, unbedingt! (there is no getting around).

      the only other solution would be to get rid of all outdoor stuff, this would make much more sense because we have 1000’s of times more hostile worlds as outdoor and “Earth” (or earthlike) is an exception.

      pardon me, but sometimes i guess the designers look only at the situation on earth.
      but i guess the “standard” is a system and hostile worlds like i selected for my starting locations.

      check them out and you know what i mean.

    • #111883

      you will need some patience for the “Sidie” (and the rest of FE2 ships).
      i downloaded the recent release and it runs fine on my notebook but i first have to get warm with the changes in pioneer.

      it’s somehow far easier for me to script a complicated rig as to get into that.
      also i still remeber the troubles i had to export animations if they exceed a simple translation rotation (connecting rods problem). i evaded this problem by using .x meshes, but also here, the common blender scripts to export a matrix animation fail. thus i need to install my old blender version because i had i clever scripted exporter for .x meshes which blantantly exported what you see in blender. any else use either “normal keying” or “visual keying” but non of them exports exactly what you see and the animation fails afterwards. if you set the visual keying for especially connectiing rods it mixes all up, that shouldn’t be i guess or is a leak of blender, respectively the “advanced” export scripts, shit advanced – “wysiwyg” export exactly what you see this was the right way. unfortunately the old export script won’t work for new blender releases.
      i miss a lot of things which was very good in blender 1.49, how to create a hose? i’ve done that before by pressing of a button and even the UV was generated.
      there might be a similar script or module for this but now i have to search for every tidbit, in the extended release of 1.49 was all packed in ready to use and also more logical to find. “like to create an object/mesh by a script? look for the script under objects”, since 2.x it is i don’t know where or you have to start the script from the terminal, very uncomfortable imho.
      i think a user won’t like to learn how to start a script from a terminal
      he will LOVE WYSIWYG press a button and the result is what i expect of by what i see.

      as example, before when i leked to create a cylinder i entered the size and divisions before i create the cylinder, logical. now i i have to create the cylinder and enter the divisions and size after it’s created, unlogical. it took my a full afternoon only to find where i can enter this, i remembered it’s vice versa but i couldn’t find that goddamned option anymore it’s hidden, unlogical and stupid imho.
      likewise the standard to have the “pulldown menus” on the bottom, that’s stupid menus belong to the top and not to the bottom who ever had this idea must be an idiot in my opinion, of course i can still have them on top but it isn’t the default behave anymore. it’s stupid mostly because windows has this strange behave now to show the taskbar even in fullscreen, sometimes it also appears when i play pioneer in fullscreen and instead to press “lower landing gear” i press on something on the taskbar even if it’s not visible.

      goddamned such can make me very angry it’s so stupid and unpractical.
      very “useful” if the menu bar of the application is on the bottom, you will constantly click on the taskbar instead to select something from the menu. argh!

      reminds me a bit of this:


      “new doesn’t equals always to better”
      most often it’s just more complicated, dunno why, developers with no practical experience?
      but maybe just to many cooks.

      i even don’t know if pioneer still supports .x meshes.

    • #111884

      and the scotsman he said “nay” ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #111885

      a few words to this:

      phoenix creates now a own directory in “documents” so it won’t conflict anymore with “Pioneer” or any other release of pioneer.

      there is a small file “phoenix.sdb”, it’s a compatibility setting (a patch to be exact) created by
      Win10 “Compatibility Toolkit” resp. “Manager” (32bit version for a 32bit application, you would have to download that from MS it’s not part of the default installation, the .sdb should even work for the win7/8 compatibility manager if this setting is available, the database is interchangeable. overall it’s a to recommend tool for everyone who likes to run old windows applications, it comes with a lot of preset patches and searches for apps when installed the first time and applies the recommended known compatibility setting even for countless games and it allows to play i.e. “SimCopter” on a win10 x64 if it’s patched right, thus you won’t need any other help and it’s 100 times better as to play an old game this way as in a virtual machine).

      the only thing it does for phoenix is to center the window if phoenix or the modelviewer runs in windowed mode. unfortunately win10 has this strange behave to open certain windowed applications staggered from “top left” to “bottom right”, often the apps window appears in a stupid position half off the screen and especially for the by me often used modelviewer this is very annoying.

      the patch is setup also for “pioneer.exe” and recognizes the app simply by it’s name (it would be possible to patch a specific version recognized checksum, size, vendor or whatever can be readed out of the file of the app to seperate patches if that is needed).

      to apply the patch you will need the “compatibility toolkit” (of course), and to load this database into it. after loading it you only have to tell the toolkit (application manager to be precise) to apply the patch – that’s all.

      a small but helpful thing especially for retro gamers.
      “game crashes because the old style file requester won’t work? – this is THE help you need”.

      i guess these are the most important two things.

      i moved all documents to a directory “docs”
      in it are some docs to “phoenix” where you wil find additional information to what changed while this is all without any warranty that it is up to date or that i listed all changes i’ve made.

      certain things especially to the vast amount of model functions are explained in the scripts themself.
      i need to sort that once, while to just play the game all this isn’t of interest.

      a last tip:
      if you start the game there is apart from the random start location still the location “Sol”.
      it’s not recommended to start at Sol, you will gain very little with deliveries here.
      it’s quite easy to change this to your preferred start location.
      just open “data/ui/MainMenu.lua”
      look out for
      local yourpath = fixedpath(‘Sol’)

      right above this variable is a table (which you must have seen when you open the file)
      named “StartLocations”, just enter instead of “Sol” any of the names from the table,

      i.e. local yourpath = fixedpath(‘Achernar’)

      thats it, now you can start always at Achernar, if you like that.

      dunno if i can achieve this but coolest would be of course if you could enter the name in the running games mainmenu, on the other hand you won’t know what is possible to enter but of course you would remember which system you liked best to start in.

      in future i hope i can use the factions table to generate the start locations table.

      if you like to switch between the possible 5 starting ships just leave the game to mainmenu and next start you will have probably a different one, while the shuttles are similar in capacity they only differ in look. the lander offers a little more capacity and the dinghy is the weakest of the five.
      the performance is the same for all 5 ships, this i reached with a “thrust calculator” which recently uses the tara (hull mass + fuel mass + standard drive (if it has a hyperdrive)) as base, thus if i enter the tara each ship has empty the same (or any given) thrust. equipped are all 5 the same with the exclusion that it would be possible to mount a gun to the “mining vessel”, recently this is not of interest because the mining laser is far to expensive to make any senseful use of it. neither i can fit it to the “mining vessel” as standard equipment, or i won’t because this would give you again the possibility to bargain with the equipment and exchange the laser for an autopilot or radar mapper, this i don’t want. best would be if i could make the mining laser to a non removable equipment of the ship, this would give the “mining vessel” reasonability.
      a sixth shuttle is planned (respectively the dinghy will be probably trashed for this) a “container lifter” but it’s still in the dock. of corse capacity and cost will be the same, the container it can lift isn’t very large, prob. it will have a little more capacity due to that.

      if i remember it right you can fit a couple more of extra passenger cabins to the “sightseeing boat”, recently it didn’t makes sense without interplanetary taxi missions.

      all shuttles, the lander and the dinghy can be overload, they have twice capacity as cargo mass.
      this means you can fit i.e. the extra passenger cabins and still keep the cargo capacity it has.
      but this has a drawback, the ship can hardly lift off a planets surface and will use much more fuel.

      also the rest of the smaller ships have some extra capacity it equals to the standard drives mass, this leaves especially for the fighters like the “rapier” more space for equipment but lowers the performance much if you load additional goods or fit a lot of equipment.
      a fighter is a fighter and not ment to carry goods from a to b.

      unfortunatly the game shows off the thrust for a ladden ship based on capacity and not on cargo space, this i will have to change in future, cargo space (mass) is what is standard capacity. “total capacity” means overloading the ship. thus the values for a ladden ship don’t reflect how the thrust is for the common maximum loaded ship it reflects the thrust for the overloaded ship. but hardly you will overload your shuttle without extra passenger cabins, goods or extra fuel you can load only “cargo mass” what is labelled as “capacity” (minus cargo mass) works only for equipment.
      in other terms, the “express shuttle” has 10 tons of cargo space and 20 tons capacity, this means you can load 10 tons of goods or extra fuel but you can still add 10 tons of equipment to it this is what will overload the ship. usually you will have only a autopilot and a radar mapper fitted to the shuttles and them are totally only 2 tons. as more equipment you fit as less good will be the performance except you load less cargo equal to the amount of equipment mass.

      the shuttles are exceptions, and there is only one other ship which can be overloaded in such a way, the “shyrka” (former “gelios”). this ship as ship will be probably removed in future, but however i will keep the “animalic” part of the ship for the special purpose of “space whaling”.

      perhaps one can gain the “shyrka” in future as a space ship as reward for completing a special mission. (prevent the “shyrka’s” from beeing hunted? shoot down AI “space whalers”? that would be the right idea).

    • #111890

      a couple of handy “stapelverarbeitungsdateien” (batch files).

      you like to switch between a special fullscreen and a windowed .ini?
      then you can put something like this in your “documents/phoenix” (or pioneer) directory and use a shortcut in your games directory to switch between them (assumed you use 7zip and that you put the several pioneer.ini ‘s in a zipped folder).

      "c:\program files\7-zip\7z.exe" e -y "config fs.zip"
      for the fullscreen settings or
      "c:\program files\7-zip\7z.exe" e -y "config win.zip"
      for the special windowed mode settings
      they will extract the content of the respective zipped folders.
      option “e” is for extract, “-y” means overwrite in quiet mode without asking.

      might be you like to empty the model_cache by pressing of a button (especially when you change models often it can stuck and prevent pioneer from running without to tell you a shit what has happened, it’s in such a case a quick method to be sure it isn’t caused by the cache to simply empty the cache).

      del model_cache\*.* /q

      option /q means quiet, don’t show any output.

      quick, dirty, but very handy.

      the “windowed mode” settings differ in my case mostly for the non-standard resolutions i use for pioneer. my notebook has a resolution of 1366×768 this i use to run it in fullscreen mode. if i like to capture pioneer with either the built in “x-box live” capture device or or with virtual dub i use a resolution of 1152×720 windowed to fit to yt’s 720HD mode so the clip won’t be streched respectively sized down which lowers the quality much. you could capture very well a fullscreen application using x-box game capture, but it’s only to recommend if the fullscreen resolution fits to any of the yt HD resolutions, the next would have a height of 1050.
      i said it’s a tiny notebook, but it’s very good for the exception of the small screen and the extremely limited view angle the screen has, this is what was most critized at the “dell latitude”.
      low contrast and limited view angle.

      wish ‘n wash, slap ‘n slew?
      (i like to do the washmachine boogie with you)
      i stripped my long text about the backdraws of a tablet OS.

    • #111891

      in despite of that i will repeat myself for a n’th time (perhaps someone new drops in and doesn’t knows me).
      there is a simple reason why i hang to the lmr, it suits me.
      it’s limited and whatever but it suits gernot, it has even become a part of my identity.
      i fell in love with it at first bite and it won’t let me go.
      i’m aware that i can work much quicker and do much more with any cad software, but it will never mean the same to me.

      “phoenix”, i guess i chose the right name for this small project of mine i see as honor to Tom Morton, John Jordan and even the not so widely known Theunis de Jong who all made a good job to show us the guts of FE2. (yech, don’t show us YOUR guts gernot)

      what’s the problem with that, fellows?

      TomM with his project “Pioneer” inspired so many of us with his work and for this i’m still grateful.

      neither i will forget Geraldine who kicked my ass to take a closer look at TomM’s Pioneer, since this moment i’m addicted to it.

      “Phoenix” already the name is to remind of all that what inspired us lurking around on Frontier forums. (and waiting patiently for E4)

      just imagine where we would be without all that, “pioneer” would be still some not well recognized project somewhere on source forge like countless projects on source forge (which in fact are sometimes sleeping beauties who just wait to be kissed by a brave hearted princess or prince).

      perhaps even E4 wouldn’t have become true without the pressure from the offsprings of FE2/FFE.

      in my personal opinion or as i see the progress over the years, perhaps this whole genre of space sims would look quite different without all of us “space sim veterans”, developers AND players.
      yes ok some idiot had to the job ๐Ÿ™‚ if that was me or anyone else doesn’t matters to me.

      one thing i still wish since we met on frontier forums is to meet all of you in “real life” (eh the terminal is to me as real as, almost as, something many don’t understand), i know to me it’s out of question at the time, but it’s a wish a dream i have.

      hmmm. i guess i’m lame, i get always a little jealous if i notice that the atari and intellivision dudes meet so often in the states. they hold their meetings yearly and we know us (and i even them) only from the web. yes it’s a matter of the wallet size i know most of us aren’t wealthy unlike some of the collectors in the states (with all their freaky and super exclusive collector items). but on the other hand i must say they even spend more money and time for such occasions. i guess some of them even bypass their own family for such, the whole thing of collecting rarities is that important to some, while ok this goes to far.

      perhaps, who knows some of us can really meet one day and exchange the memories we have.

      (question, what do you think if i start a crowd funding just for such a meeting and no productive thing is their a chance to collect enough money to hold such a meeting and to pay even the travel costs for some of us? i mean the supporters wouldn’t have any profit of that. i guess i should try it instead to speculate about it)

    • #111893

      Got it running under PlayOnLinux. I get 7-8 fps at the spaceport no matter what resolution I choose. It looks promising. I’ll give it a proper test after I finish some Halloween stuff. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #111900

      that’s pretty lame 7-8 fps, while i assume it’s caused because you run it in some kind of virtual windows (?).

      i have no idea about linux, for sure it would be an option to windows but my recent notebook is to tight in space for a second OS that i could promise to compile a linux version in the near future. recently i didn’t even compiled the win32 Pioneer i use still as base, this simply because it’s not yet needed to reach the goals i have with modeling and scripting around the existing old release. once i’m satisfied with that i can caare again about this task (unfortunately i lost the source i used and worked with from around 2015, the source of alpha31 is still available one thing which hinders me also is that the third party sources for alpha31 are not longer available and what is used for the recent releases won’t work for some tidbits and i have to reconstruct it and that’s a piece of shit. i know this because i started to compile what i found still on my old machine, which like i said before also exhaustet it’s last blue cloud of smoke, that was horrible but it happened now for the third time to me so it starts to get quite common. certainly backupdrives would prevent from such but one must have such a drive first. the HD isn’t lost neither of the macbook nor from my old machine but also to recover what is on them i need to invest a little money. really such doesn’t worries me anymore “shit happens – let’s move on”). Fortunately i copied a lot of games and things to the notenbook before the powersupply brok, i assume it’s the powersupply, i’m not sure i didn’t opened it yet, but the smell of a burnt large eloctrolyte capacitor is pretty telling that it’s the powersupply, assuming this my old machine should still run after fixing it but i lost patience with that and the notebook i use is that good i don’t have much interest to fix the old crap. it became to me a waste of time in some way to fiddle around with broken or old hardware, i really like to use a computer and not to fix a broken one, perhaps when i’m in the mood for it, i fixed last year an even older one which i took home, it was left on the streetside so it asked for to be carried home. it was an easy thing to fix it, the processor cooling vent was stucked with dust. but it’s besides an even older one as my machine and the powersupply i guess won’t work it’s a quite weak standard one. if im in the mood and recently i’m not (before i pick up the soldering iron for this task i would build a small composite out for my intellivision, that’s more important to have for me and i made some theoretical suggests to that so i like to make proof what i claimed. it’s because joe and the rest use a cheap pair of transistors for the purpose. in no way i like to say joe doesn’t knows his job, apart from being a machine coder he’s also a very good electronics engineer, the “LTO Flash” for my inty is his design, but dammit i guess it was my dead father who whispered in my ear “that isn’t suitable for an amplifier it’s ment for controllers or logical gates and controllers don’t mind about oszillating or noise”, the composite out is a sort of amplifier however oszillating of the circuit is to prevent at all cost and murphys law tells “every amplifier tends to oscillate and every oszillator tends to amplify”. even the exact type i almost remembered immediatly, it surprised me myself. to invest 1$ more for a transistor isn’t much money but it can have a big effect on the result. however i digged through the specifiction tables of the vendor and bingo i was right, theoretically at least).

      what did i liked to say? transistors?
      back to fps and phoenix.
      to be honest i reach also only about 15fps, but my notebook has not a good gpu i can’t expect more of it and i guess neither i reach more running the official release, it runs quite good but i haven’t yet compared the resulting framerate. pioneer makes the notebook sweat and the vent immediatly starts to go on maximum rpm when i start it. the fps i reach are about the same i reached with my old machine and a cheap gpu (yet another broken thingy and the one i used in the last years was an old one i removed from a piece of junk, but better a cheap graphics card as no graphics card.

      but also i can’t reach better esults with a thinner phoenix, when i started the project i limited it as much i could, near to no dynamic models, no textures, simple buildings, no pilots or extras like this even the adverts i banned, but the impact on framerate by slowly adding one after the other isn’t worth to debate about, some single fps, but reaching a final framerate of 16 or 15 is pretty the same. yes the stations and especially, foremost the cities use a lot of fps. it’s quite a riddle to me since it didn’t gets much better if i use i.e no textures for the buildings. them are simply to many little buildings i guess and something like my “city tiles test” would probably reach better framerate even if the tiles are larger, but you won’t use as many of them to display a reasonable looking city (i will see this project still lurks around on my HD so it won’t be a big thing to test it). i assume the lmr uses more power to run but on the other hand all models are cached and they should run as fine as anykind of meshes/models. so said i don’t reach much better framerates if i use wavefront objects instead of my scripted geometry, in the end it’s pretty the same.

      perhaps if i disable the random adverts it will be for some fps better, but don’t expect no wonder i assume from your 5-6 to 8-10. i know that they eat up fps. but i re-enabled them and didn’t noticed a big impact on my notebook. like i said perhaps from 16 down to 15.

      similar settings similar fps, after a quick comparison i have to correct myself 20 to 24 for “Phoenix”
      24 to 26 for the recent “Pioneer”, settings are high, high, and medium for the cities (i ran it before high for the cities to that’s why i reached before only 14 -16).

      imho no big difference, and to be honest i expected better results of the recent release, at start i wondered “wow 32 fps!” switched to settings and noticed low, low, low “phew” i thought ๐Ÿ˜‰

      i know the lmr is clumsy and i’m aware the 100s of functions (modeling helpers) won’t make it better in performance neither my global material tables will help to run it faster (while if i remember that right tables are no big problem, they are cached on the hd and have no big impact on performance).

      the city tiles could really help to gain fps, since you could run it at low and still get a large city as result. but there is a design problem with them. they look miserable if the terrain is hilly and horrible if it’s a steep mountainside. if something like that should work at all the terrain for the cities must be flattened.

      but guessing that i use so many new functions, new model functions, even “evil” global stuff i must say what i reach with the lmr isn’t really bad. it has an impact on performance but it’s for me not worth to think about to change to something else.

      using a middle priced gpu it would certainly easy run at 30fps, guessing of that my notebook isn’t ment for gaming purposes. it’s just a notebook not even a laptop, if you know what i mean, calculators was almost bigger in the ’80s and for sure bigger in the ’70s ๐Ÿ˜‰ that thing isn’t larger as a modern handy, nah ok as a tablet, it almost fits in my pocket.

      i could spare most of the new functions for myself, but also to be honest for every function i made i remembered your troubles with the lmr and kept in mind to make it as easy as possible to create models with it, not that i expect that you will, just as a goal.

      else i wouldn’t have created something like a texturemapper, ok it teached me also many things about U,V, projection i didn’t knew so well before, but the idea was really to simplify the model creation with the lmr.

      and well
      local scale = 1
      local radius = 70*scale
      local pixels = {25,50,100,0}
      local texoffice1 = ‘textures/office/office1.png’
      local size = v(70,20,50)
      “size” isn’t only valid for the projection, as you can see
      all vectors refere to this vector, if you change a value here
      it will change the whole geometry in its dimensions, since the mapper referes
      to the same values it will also keep the texture mapping.
      mostly i’ve done this to fiddle around here with this so you can see
      that the mapper is bound to the models extensions
      local diagonal1 = Diagonal[3] — simple but trustworthy “Diagonal” projection, requested from a table
      local diagonal2 = Diagonal[5]

      define_model('office1', {
      	info = 	{
      			scale = scale,
                              lod_pixels = pixels,
      			bounding_radius = radius,
      			materials = {'concrete','aluminium','darkgrey','grey'},
      			tags = {'city_building'},
      	static = function(lod)
      		local v0 = v(size.x/2,size.y + (size.y/25),size.z/2)
                      --[[ "v0" is in the upper right corner (viewed from front)
      		of the building and equals to the maximum extension of "U" & "V", 
      		here it's viewed from the front and the respective section of the texture map
      		is as well right below half of the textures vertical extension thus the front
      		projection hasn't to be moved, it's exactly in midst of the texture map,
      		the building is designed for an easy use of the texturemapper, but if you start
      		in the upper right corner it will always be "v0" which represents maximum "UV"
      		and you can use "v0" for the position vector of the texturemapper.
                      -- building
      		local v1 = mirx(v0) -- with mirx,miry,mirz you can easy flip coordinates
      		local v2 = mirz(v0)
      		local v3 = mirx(v2)
      		local v4 = v(v0.x,size.y/25,v2.z)
      		local v5 = mirx(v4)
      		local v6 = v(v0.x,v4.y,v0.z)
      		local v7 = mirx(v6)
      		-- basement
      		local v8 = v(v0.x,-size.y*2,v0.z)
      		local v9 = mirx(v8)
      		local v10 = v(v0.x,v8.y,v2.z)
      		local v11 = mirx(v10)
      		-- vectors for the cuboid function
      		local cube1 = {v(size.x/4,v2.y,-size.z/4),v(size.x/8,size.y/6.25,size.z/4)}
      		local cube2 = {v(size.x/4,v2.y,size.z/10),v(2,size.y/25,size.z/12.5)}
      		local cube3 = {v(size.x/4,v2.y,size.z/3),v(2,size.y/25,size.z/12.5)}
      		local cube4 = {v(-size.x/8,v2.y,0),v(size.x/8,size.y/6.25,size.z/4)}
      		local front = texmapper(v0,size,v(0,0,1),v(1,-.25,1))
      		local top = texmapper(v0 + v(0,0,.5),size,v(0,1,0),v(1,1,-.49)) -- "+ 0.5" corrects                 
                      --shifting of the "wrong" divisor "-.49" instead of "-.50" 
      		local side = texmapper(v0 + v(0,size.y*2,0),size,v(1,0,0),v(1,.25,1)) -- size.y*2 
                      --shifts the geometry in the proper section of the map
      		material('concrete') -- preset materials from a table, recognized by their names (name  
                      --is given)
      		if lod == 1 then
                      -- lod 1 buildings are visible but untextured thus this dark material
      		if lod > 1 then
                              -- request values from texmapper output
      		if lod > 1 then
      		if lod > 1 then
      		if lod > 1 then
                              -- request Diagonal projection from global table
      			if lod > 2 then
      				-- extras
      				-- cool function to easy texture a cuboid with the same texture from
                                      -- all sides, tiling or stretching is controlled with the last vector
                                      -- "divisor"
      				if lod > 3 then
      	dynamic = function(lod)
      		-- ventilator
      		if lod > 3 then
      			call_model('ventilator',v(-size.x/4,size.y +(size.y/25),-size.z/4),v(1,0,0),v(0,1,0),1)
      			call_model('ventilator',v(-size.x/12,size.y +(size.y/25),-size.z/4),v(1,0,0),v(0,1,0),1)

      it can’t be much easier as this,
      the whole vector listing is based on the size, change any of the size x,y, or z and the whole model will be build and textured reflecting this change.
      i’m quite proud of that i can say.

      one of the most helpful things i guess are the mirror functions, this let’s you write vector listings in “no time”, especially for something simple like a building.

      the rest is except of the main building (5 quads) and the basement (another 4) all either a model function (cuboid, textured cuboid) or a sub-model of any kind (ventilator).

      yes, the ventilators could spare another single fps if disabled ;).

      one could create a very very simple building with
      and ready is the textured concrete cube (without any windows, or if the texture has windows on it the roof would have as well because “texcuboid” uses only one texture but maps it from all sides).

      and i guess this is worth an impact of a few fps.

    • #111901

      PlayOnLinux is a front end for WINE. WINE Is Not an Emulator, it’s a translation layer between Linux and Windows. My graphics card plays the Windows version of Mass Effect very well. I’ll look at the PlayOnLinux settings. I may have to add some libraries or something.
      Looking at that LMR code takes me back to the days when I could get a model into Pioneer. I may try it in Phoenix, who knows?
      Speaking of old lost files, I had a faction mod that gave different buildings and stations to the different factions. Actually the player would have to load the mod for the faction they were in manually. The Independent faction had two color stations with the colors generated by the station’s name.

    • #111973

      that nice laybird again

      yes, phew recently this is a knot i can’t solve without to change the source.
      of course no problem to generate colours by the label (while evwen here, for ships labels had been disabled in alpha31 for preview and the label won’t work for ships to randomize something a mean change of which i… whatever i suspected)
      recently i use the ships random material to generate i.e. the “legal name” from (i.e. “flying toaster”) or to select materials from a own table of preset materials such as the “fe2materials”

      but that’s not really what i like to get in the end for the architecture problems, much more as random generated or labelled buildings, even if that would be a nice little extra, i would like to seperate them for hostile and outdoor worlds, you this is something i care about since we started.

      if i can’t have this, all groundstations will be in the near future the type of sealed stations for hostile worlds even on outdoor planets because it mekes more sense as the outdoor type on a hostile world. a similar thought i have for the buildings itself, “type hostile” will be more reasonable for all as “type outdoor”.

      stations labels (city name in fact) works also well for a couple of new adverts i’ve created. i dismissed the random adverts and made them simply changing in a given order (while this didn’t saved me a single fps) therefore i added a couple of station different adverts. the initial idea was to label some factories different, but since i can’t have this i took the name generation for the a few adverts which will show different company names for each station. i guess that’s quite good.

      wine isn’t an emulator you’re right i used it on my macbook with yes even very bad results for pioneer or ffed3d, ffed3d was almost playable but pioneer sucked completely using wine, the framerate was below or around 1 fps, absolutely useless even just to check your work (while ok pioneer runs under osx). it’s still a sort of virtual machine the whole environment is solved via replacement libs. it’s cool that wine exists at all and besides it’s better as any else virtual machine, even windows on windows. you can use wine easy for games but it has some limits.

      certainly running a lot of scripted stuff is slowing down any machine, all this nice opportunities we have with such high levelled speechy programing languages are only possible due to the extreme gain of speed in the last decades. interpreters are something worse if one thinks right about, but well i’m not “joe zbiciak” and i will never reach to program in machine code. the world will leak of the “joes” once they are dead, i’m pretty sure.

      that looks familiar, no?
      i revived my hostile spaceport as scripted geometry, t’was a piece of work especially with the changes in docking anim to respect the leaking capability of geometry flagging for collada, the stations are now bound to which animation stage you are in and it seems i can’t release the docking procedure anymore by colliding with a special flagged geometry (complete bullshit in other terms).

      well, imho it could had been solved by keeping the flagging, collada is a script and it’s quite easy to enter any specific data you will need, that could be even something which could be read only by a certain program and will appear as comment for other programs.

      in other terms docking works by autopilot but no manual release of docking procedure, i’m not quite sure what all causes this misbehave but i’m unfortunately bound to stage 2 any else won’t work to release the docking procedure for ground stations. (a similar probelm i had with the orbital spacestation that’s wha it’s still unfinished because the docking sequence is destroyed since the use of miserable collada, just to tell it right. besides AI ships can still hang uselessly in the port but it happened only once in the whole travel back to sol from somewhere of the rim of settled space)

      once i even found out that it’s even bound to collision mesh size (unscaled!) all this are changes which made me once very angry and they come now to surface one after the other. this i found out by rebuilding the “mars station” type from fe2. it’s a very large station and i gave it a small size and scaled it up, i searched and searched for the error why the docking procedure wasn’t released until i found out that something is depending on the size of the unscaled collision mesh. if i used the same station unscaled 10 times smaller the sequence worked well. somehow it’s also bound to collision mesh size (unscaled!) and/or to bounding radius, they had to find a way to make docking animations possible for collada, that’s where this change comes from.

      not proper at all, in any case you use flagged geometry for such stuff, just guess of lap’s in racing games, it’s the same stuff, an invisible special flagged geometry you “collide” with your model and you receive the lap or round time. (sometimes it’s solved different but i see such rather as a workaround because of certain leaks, eg for old streets of simcity you simply can use the tile you pass with your car and won’t need flagged geometry).

      due to the opening and closing (which also leaks still somewhat) of the gate i can’t use stage 2 to dock i need it to open the gate (i had similar fuzz with the orbital station). i could use stage one but then it takes 5 to 10 minutes to open the gate (durance of stage 1 is the docking timout).

      if i guess that all such has worked before….

      however, i’m even not sure if my not working manual release is caused by the half sized “hostile port” (scaled up twice, i mismatched the size when i started, i haven’t thought of the size of the flowerfairy heavy trader, for the spheric “galactic cruiser” it would have fitted).

      the flowerfairy has been gifted with an own texture (yeah), also the XF MKI.
      while texturing my scripted copy of the x-wing i found many errors, i must have been in a hurry when i made this model.

      back to leaking performance, wine project is grateful for any reports what you play and which problems you have, in this way it can be continousely made better.

    • #111974

      a couple of screenshots from the recent changes, while pardon me “1 pic per post” else my posts have to be authored.

    • #111975

      label stuff ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #111976

      the font i use recently is another “inty” font based on the standard intellivision screen font.
      it’s not easy to find a free to use monospaced font without roundings or much serifes, but monospaced works best for the labels

      once ment as example how simple a ship can be scripted the xf mk1 has grown to a full model.

      changes i’ve also made to the hullcutter there are now no more parts which cut out occasionally other geometry of it, that was also a hard piece of work to reach and i almost thought there is no way to solve it and i needed many naps to find the solution for this problem.

    • #111977

      it’s abit a dark color for the xf mk1, but i decided to use the “camouflage colorset” for it, which contains a version of “blood red”.

      the rest of most ships uses now a set of brighter colors and less greens or dark grey colors. lot of bright steel grey in variations, gold and copper that stuff really looks nice on the ships.
      you can influence which colors are selected by specifying a number which i simply add to the seed i use and which i use also to seperate the names for the colors. i.e. you enter “matset1(‘somecolor’,4)”
      and the resulting material has the name ‘somecolor4’ and adds “4” to the generic seed to grant that you can use at least two different per ship (in fact you could use as much variations you like from different tables) odd numbers result in semitransparent material (if the texture has spaces in alpha channel lower as 255), even in opaque. even the standard materials you can use have been simplyfied a lot, material(‘steel’) will select and return “set material,’steel’…..)” (if it’s part of the standard material table of course, the selection is name sensitive and you could even specify a different table to use with an optional third variable. i.e. “material(‘anything’,mytable” will return set_material(‘anything’,….) from the table “mytable”) you just have to list and use it.
      this is because you will use very often the same materials, especially such as “steel”, “black”, “white”, “grey” or “absolute” (an unshaded absolute black), some special ones like “ceiling” which adds a glow and disables shading, it becomes handy for cockpits or rooms if you don’t like to use “local lighting” or if the lighting fails and this simplyfies it a lot.

      besides in my opinion after using unshaded materials for the sealed spaceport it’s somehow the better option as “local lighting”. using the glowmap you can control exactly how it should be lit and this is often better as if i use a local lighting. for the cockpits i used both options, pilots and cockpit are locally lit but the ceiling can’t be lit proper because the lightsource is usually to close to it, therefore i created material “ceiling”. it’s really to think about only to use such unshaded glowing material or glowmaps to light things locally up.

    • #111978

      nothing new so far, but it no longer cuts out the cockpit in this angle.

    • #111979

      return of the decal stuff

      this is in fact u.s. ww2 “3rd pursuit squadron”, a very nice one i think.

    • #112072

      These look great Gernot! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #112087

      thanks, i do my worst ๐Ÿ˜‰

      the decals (some of) i discovered while i was looking for a shark mouth (jaws).

      recently i’m working on the buildings because i found them somewhat odd. it won’t help to gain fps (that’s why i simplyfied them before) but they look quite good now.

    • #112088

      i’m aware skyscrapers won’t look reasonable on a hostile planet, but i can’t seperate them yet thus i create both sort of buildings but mostly common for outdoor worlds.
      i know i said once “i don’t like skyscrapers”, but well the highrise buildings look very big city like.

      again i decided to put them on large basements, kinda mix of “city tiles” and the common way.
      quarters will be to large or else i have to lift them 50m above the ground so they won’t be covered by a possible hillside. i think a tilesize of ~100m is not bad and i only have to lift them 15m above the ground to display them right in most cases (on very steep mountainsides they will still be covered by half). however, maybe i still arrange them in tiles if the collision mesh is sized properly in ralation to the basement they will be almost seamless (maybe you remember the experimental city tiles i made once).

    • #112089

      it’s not the best solution to put them on such large sockets but somehow i have to solve resp. to workaround the problem of swallowed buildings.

    • #112090

      i miss also the possibilty to tag them, it really leaks of this (i wonder why it has been removed at all)
      in the old releases (tomm’s) you had the possibility to tag them as “city starport” or “city power”, this was good to tag i.e. industry as “city power” though they won’t be as many as if all buildings have the same percentual use. i have only one factory but it’s unfortunately the most “common” building now.
      the liquids tanks of course would look best close to the starport likewise i planned them years ago.
      (btw, “tank” – i learned that this was a secret name for the “tanks” ;), plus that in WWI churchill made them to “landships” because the army disliked the clumsy tanks thus he made a marine vessel under command of the navy out of them – “landship” ts).

      a nuclear power plant is in work, i worry already about how often it will appear, on the other hand a large building like the arcology won’t appear often neither in one city (ecxept if city size is set at “very very high”) or in general many cities won’t show such large buildings at all. the npp will be about 200meter sidelength plus basement thus it will be around 300m finally and such large buildings won’t appear often.

      maximum density

    • #112091

      medium density

      they still look best on a flat terrain with or without the “sockets”.

      it won’t have an impact to framerate how many different bld’s i use but of course how detailed they are. some are still, quite simple (in general a textured cube) other are very complex like the “twin tower” tile with the additional small city quarter and “art building” on it, this is a real framerate killer and yes ok “useless” for a city, but well it’s great stuff to look at.

    • #112092

      an already quite large tile and mnot often to see.

    • #112093


    • #112152

      i removed all dynamic parts (except for a couple of lights) and gained some fps (a few).

    • #112153

      mainly the “ventilator” (which was always on “factory1”) i removed from all buildings, it’s really not good to have multiple times a dynamic part it will much slow down the game.

    • #112154

      therefore i added many more details to the buildings, it won’t harm as much as the dynamic parts.

      LOD1 is a plain darkgrey building ( a simple cube in general) and visible in large distance.
      LOD2 is somewhat more detailed and textured
      LOD3 & LOD4 is most detailed

      LOD1 which is also the collision mesh is very simple and displays only the main building which means you could fly through most of the small accompaining buildings.

      of course the city still steals a lot of fps but it’s quite better without any dynamic model as if i use only one (it will be repetive used).

    • #112155

      i’m aware that it looks a little weird with the pyramidal basements but if i don’t use something like that the buildings will either stand in the air or are sunk in if they are placed on a hillside.

    • #112156

      still some buildings are sometimes inside the terrain even if i lifted them 15m above the ground.
      it could be enhanced a little if i use a collision mesh for the “floortile” but then the buildings will stand far from each. it looks like there is a table for the sizes how much space they will use because from on a certain limit you will need much more space even if the collision mesh is only a little larger until you reached again the limit to the next “step” (size).

    • #112158

      The pictures aren’t showing. Picload says the images were deleted.

    • #112189

      i noticed that to strangewiasely my whole picload account was empty (except for the folder structure).

      never mind (i do mind)

      a preview:

      needs only a few tweaks and a proper specularity map.

    • #112190

      Pioneer Sim Cit… erm Space Sim

    • #112191

    • #112193

      That’s a fine looking city!

    • #112204

      Thats also a fine looking Sidewinder! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #112214

      decide which is better ๐Ÿ˜‰

      obviousely visually the sgm model looks a little bit better and has a couple of details more.

      i didn’t hink anyone will use it.
      The following model is the starting point for the new Sidewinder model a bit uncommon to get create a model but i liked to mget this model for a own FE2 mod for phoenix which should also contain only scripted geometry (or both) that’s why i started it as LMR script.

    • #112215

      the model:
      Sidewinder for Phoenix

      The link to download the SGM version for the recent Pioneer release(s) awaits moderation.
      (Oh no not these again)

    • #112224

      I think the SGM looks great Gernot and I am having lots of fun in it! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #112258

      a classic

    • #112267

      the bloody naked terror

    • #112268

      a recurrence

    • #112269

      the most wanted space ship in the whole galaxy

    • #112270


      there was times when i wasn’t certain about the scale of FE2’s ships or models in general but i should have noticed this long ago because it’s very obvious that the scale is inconsistent in FE2.

      after this rework of honestly models i already once converted i noticed after the third model what’s behind this. 0.064, 0.128, 0.256, 0.512 tells a lot at least what i always suspected that it’s a scaling based upon a expression, the models itself have to be due to that it’s in hexadecimal values a integer number mostly they are extremely large and get scaled down a lot for the game the reason is obvious if you can work only with integers. but of course one could nonetheless reach any size/scale but not if you use either a table with given scaleing multipliers (divisors) or even more byte saving based on a expression but this limits the possible scaleing much and i can only reach something “near to what i guess the size could be”. i always thought it’s inconsistent if i compared the sizes of some ships but this makes it very obvious it’s simply mot possible to have a uniform unitsize in this manner only close to with sometimes very large gaps if you think of this potentation of the factor. thus for this i have to say i have to choose the values i use wisely. keeping in mind that the scaleing is limited and that i have to use integers is already a challange but not enough the numbers he used stand in a relation so they make the construction easier that the scale is finally a little inconsistent is neglectible.

      on the other hand certain things are a complete riddle to me, i.e. why stand (centered as model) some buildings very comprehensible one unit below zero and others are miles under zero centered just be be placed finally lifted by this value (???), it seems to make no sense but i learned over the years that everything i thought of that it makes no sense has for sure a mathematical reason.

      the above ships are,i don’t know maybe i was just bored, are again very very close to FE2/FFE. again i simply copied the geometry but used i.e. consequently only the original scaleing inconsistent or not also a sort of reference i used to keep phoenix as uniform as possible in scale especially for the buildings (the floor height varies between 2.5m and 3m, sometimes they seem to look different but i really tried to keep this limitation) and they can be used for comparison. also i tried as far as possible or as far as iliked to keep the original textures. of course a bit reworked and fitted for the use in pioneer. for the cobby i used a different second skin asexample because the one which is also used i.e. for the ip shuttle doesn’t looks smart if you can’t relax the triangles on the texture like it was done oldschool. though the texturing are projtection and can’t be like the original on the other hand the sliding of the texture along the edges would look very funny today and you know it from gl ffe it can even be disturbing in high-res what is neglectible in lo-res. the reason for this behave read on nvidias history page, i remember it’s a very good explanation and besides in fact the problem would still exist this was one of the big steps forward to correct this behave of textured geometry it is of course a question of power. a reference also for further ffe models even if the recent 4 are re-works of a re-work of a-rework (‘s re-work ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) with exception of the lifter which gives at least a little more sense to the factory names which change as well as the cargo each lifter carries.

      i guess the lifter captures well what i fascinates me about this simple models it’s the varitions these simple looking ships come along, that even a not to use ship like the lifter which is to see as decoration (will it be exchanged with the parked shuttle in some ports?) but uses the whole palette of cargo models which are otherwise hard to notice in shape even when you do mining. his simple lines was always dynamic and no problem to exchange textures, i get to a limit whith such and for the cobby i did the exclusive thing to use 8 different (basically only two and somehow those two would be enough but it boosts the color variations if you use only the sixteen FE2 materials), that means 8 hull models and 2 times 2 times 8 models for the landing gear flaps which are textured “in position” and have to use the same texture and material as the main model (and vanish in a magical way). some consequences i took like to use no pilots or any other dynamic sub-model in the static part make them quite good in performance, thus it plays no big role if i use this simple hull dynamic it’s just that it potentiates the amount of sub-models for a ship if i use so many texture variations. thus i guess the cobby will be the only ship which comes with so many different textures, perhaps i even restrict it to the two basically different ones even if especially the “rusted metal” looks very psychedlic in the way i used it in it’s different colors. originally the textured parts have no material color and this results in the typical green or yellow black spotted cobby there are only 4 variations in color for each texture and very saturated, knowing that i will use and blend them with the sixteen quite decent materials i de-saturated them a lot so the keep only a touch of their original color this spreads the random material colors in a nice way. i sized them somewhat up from 64×64 to 128×128 pixels (not a lot in fact) and layed a noise over them as well as a slight gaussian filter. not that it’s a big throw or anything but it works well with the basic models and a texuring of either each quad like i used for the shuttle (it’s easy to quasi “relax” a quad with a projection) or if i split the geometry like i did for the cobby and use the texture mirrored.

    • #112271

      this kind of satured it would be

      knowing that i will use it blended i left or even intensyfied the orange sections while i de-saturated the green, red or blue base color. the orange sections make due to the streched use on the shuttle a good sort of “rusted steel” look while the same texture (with the difference for the “ghost paneling”) looks close to a snakes skin with its pattern. it would be in fact like i said the same with the paneling for the cobby but it didn’t looks well if you can’t relax the quad on the texture fully which would otherwise look strange even without the sliding effect “relaxing” bends and stretches the texture at the triangles edges no matter what size or relation it has. the paneling will cross the edges of the geometry if i project it and that looks shitty.

    • #112272

      how the cobby looks using a different color as exactly the most tinted one blood red which is hardly to find as hull color. i can only remember the eagle mk3 in bloodred else it’s used as accent color. all the rest of the 16 “FE2 colors” are very decent, the dark blue is also quite dark but ok likewise the bloodred for a sort of “night hunter” even if that makes totally no sense at all for space ships but who cares nightblue and bloodred look cool. else the materials have more a scent of green, red or blue and leave usually a lot of the textures color.

    • #112285

      some changes to the ffe textures
      after the sidie gave me some troubles to texture equal like the original, i can’t relax a triangle, i decided to mirror the textures and simply project them from top it turns out quite well but not exactly like the original the textures was made for the primitive use. since it turned out that there are many ships using multiple textures i decided to draw that in general quiet spartanic hull as dynamic geometry and randomly select a texture for it it has no big effect on the framerate some but it’s neglectable as long as you don’t draw hundreds of ships at once, however it allows me to use the texture variations without to create a zillion sub-models even if that can be automated. i noticed that FE2 and FFE don’t use the same textures for all the ships (obviousely FFE has a somewhat larger texture set as DOS FE2), the sidewinder was the first i stumbled over not using the same textures thus i decided since i randomize them anyway to vary with the textures a little more.
      the textures look sometimes quite interesting when they get mirrored.

      the FFE sidewinder,

      the spartanic lmr version,
      the “fe2” skin (top, bottom and rear would use the same i used a varied rear texture from the “ffe” set, it’s originally a qeird texture one asks himself what purpose it has when you look at it but it makes sense used in the way it’s used on the sidie).

      the rearview,

    • #112292

      it seems i wasn’t satisfied with the textures

    • #112293

      That Eagle looks excellent, and Merry Christmas!

    • #112294

      I am so glad Gernot is back making these wonderful ships! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #112296

      thx and erm yes (awaits moderation)

    • #112297

      the skins respectively the textures have grown a lot they are now more and more specialised skins for each model, intetionally it should be simple… intentionally.

      the ships are still very simple models, triangle – triangle – quad but they have their special charm or maybe i’m just nostalgic. not exactly i won’t forget the DLR study for a shutttle/glider which was very close to the simple shape of the simple cobra mk1 or the sidewinder, something in a wedge shape the aerodynamics aren’t as worse as one will expect by the cornered shape and the heat shielding is much easier and cheaper to apply, i guess anyway the airplane like shape of the space shuttle was for a certain part a design question – it had to look like a bird, they designed it from the very beginning as one and i guess there was no getting around that even when it complicated many things. it should beat all the other projects, for some part the space shuttle was PR.

      yes ok the eagle and many other FE2 ships are airfighters which is out of the question i guess but well typical for sci-fi some small rat fighter. the eagle is rather a blade as a ship and to find enough space for the pilot he must be shrinked.

      a bloody blade

    • #112298

    • #112299

    • #112300

      They look great Gernot!
      And, if I may say, a Happy Christmas to you Gernot and everyone at the SSC!

    • #112302

      happy new year
      a lot of texturework and six triangles ๐Ÿ™‚

      or four

    • #112310


      one of the most unique (or ugly?) looking ships of FFE (apart from the shit cruiser).

    • #112311


      if you wonder how i manage to make a model per day – most i wrote already also the gyr and somewhere is still the turner class (“argent quest” with wiggling tail). thus “only” the texture is new the gyr had no good one and is apart from the pods untextured and only in green in FFE, the reason is FFE can only strech tris or quads on the texture if you have a flat which is most of this ship it’s made from many tris and each would get the full texture it would look rather ugly. in my case i had to rewrite the flats to bezier patches because a flat has unified normals (the shading points towards the same direction, compare to the eagle here i used the flats and only tilted the normals the in fact “bumped” surface looks “flat”, to apply the “thruster texture” on the eagles wing he applied a textured quad you can’t see any difference for the quad or the flat beyond because they use the same normals and FE2 is quasi unshaded underlayed geometries appear as on top.)

    • #112312

      for comparison the FFE version (GLFFE).

      i resized the cockpit a lot if it would be as big as in FFE it would be about 6m high, the ship is about 50m to 60m in size it’s a quite large fighter. it’s an exclusion even in scaleing this model is “undersized” it seems it worked out well for the bezier stuff with numbers between 1 and 20 the model is scaled up 4.096 for use in the the game (keeping in mind that he could use only integer values the cockpit wasn’t to size smaller as 1 unit to 1 unit and this would be 4.096 meters.

    • #112313


      it leaks of a landing gear (in work) and the rest of tidbits (labels, guns, scanner, thrusters).

      as one can see i needed a lot of imagination to make the hull, the original is made mostly from flats (which are flat as earth is flat, lol) only the “hood” is rounded but also a flat. the upper half has no distance to the lower half (upperside flat on underside flat), thus the curve on top for the bezier stuff and also those on bottom are quite imaginative. the original model is somehow loveless put together, the anyway far to large cockpit hangs somewhere above the hull and the bezier parts don’t fit well (mine do neither some errors i copied or couldn’t evade).

    • #112314


    • #112315

      a lot of imagination!

      for the rear engine you will have to pardon me, it’s glowing blue in the original and there is no way to carve this bezier shape out so i tricked the engine glow on the shape. it’s still better or closer to the original as to stick out some thruster nozzle.

    • #112320

      strange, in the manual the gyr is described as single seater but it needs two crew members in the game.

    • #112323

      The crew members have to be very close friends then! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • #112338

      my fault, i shouldn’t refere to an aniso mod where the ship specs are hacked, the gyr has definately only one crew member (while ok comparing to the scale there will be easy space enough for a footballteam in this oversized ship).

      i’m very sorry for the loss of my screenshots, it happened now for the second time and i have no idea why thus i canceled my picload account and use what i should have used already – my google account.

      no space for even only one member of a footballteam:

    • #112339

      the Falcon is apart from a few added vertices the exact geometry except that i turned almost everything to a bezier surface. it worked well was quite easy done and the result is amazing if you guess that it’s build from a handfull of points.

    • #112340

      the success with the falcon and because it was so easy done i started to rebuild the hawk/kestrel in the same manner but it turned out that it needed special effort (many new points and a geomtry split into several parts in ffe) to reach something which isn’t as good as the falcon (imho).

    • #112341

    • #112342

      the profile of the falcon wing is quasi wrong (it’s anyway wrong), when i used the points as in this image the profile of the resulting bezier surfaces showed a larger surface for the underside of the wing. of course this i changed for my conversion and there isn’t much difference in the result except that now the top surface is larger.
      to reach the needed points for the bezier quad i just added one (per iteration) at the front of the wings profile in exact the height of the next point (those which form the wings profile in the original) due to that this nice wing shape was created.

    • #112343

      yes the Falcon is straight green in FFE – but it uses the “cobra” texture in FE2.
      there are many differences in skin use between them because of that i started to blend what is FE2 FFE and my own impression of it many of the teytures i used at start i didn’t use anymore and almost all ships use now own skins instead of many several textures it’s foremost better for my dynamic skin selection.

      a substitute

    • #112344

      half ‘n half

      the hawk/kestrel is build from i guess 6 different parts; hawk fuselage, hawk wing, hawk recess, hawk fin, kestrel mid-section, kestrel engines to make it possible in FEE to reu-se the hawk for the kestrel. it gave me a lot of troubles keeping this idea to build two ships from one because due to the slghtly different shape i couldn’t use except for the wings itself the same texture twice.

      i know i rebuilded it already for FFED3D but this time i redesigned the wings and apart from being thin like a razorblade they look much better as the geometry i used for my first model even if the previous “ffed3d hawk/ketrel” are else more detailed and such but the wings surface is better now and i guess i will re-use it. the difference is mainly that even for the ffed3d version even when it was build with blender i used a quick snapshot of a lua scripted geometry for the wings bezier shape, it’s much easier and better made in with the lmr as modelling engine (for pre-modelling) as if i had to create a bezier shape in blender, at least i feel i can’t reach the same so well. this first bezier shape was a flat and a triangle to close the surface like the original is designed knowing that due to the divisions it will result in a very smooth and unlike the “flat” command result in a proper shaded surface. but it’s not as smooth as the new one which is rebuild using a bezier quad surface, it doesn’t needs the triangle to close and smoothly slides into the fuselage. the only thing which worries me now a little is that it is this thin. if i lift it i lose the exact shape (while even if it’s not to see i changed the fuselage a little and splitted the top from the bottom section to add an extra bezier not to have a sharp edge between top and bottom, you can’t see it but you would if this 4mm wouldn’t be there and it would be sharp and not rounded).
      on the other hand in FFE (and as well any other similar game) and in pioneer you can’t make good use of a Hawk or a Kestrel, i guess they are only men’t as agressors because you can hardly fit a 1MW pulse laser and very often they are unequipped due to this lack of space in FE2/FFE (like in FE2 the Falcon which has a little more cargo space, the Hawk and Kestrel didn’t exist there i guess).

      In FE2 the Falcon is the typical enerving unarmed ship which follows you everywhere, but sometimes it’s equipped with a 5MW pulse laser and then you have to take some care your shields can vanish quite fast.

      to the Hawk and Kestrel i can’t tell so much i played FFE but by far not as much as FE2 except that 9 tons cargo space are far to less drive, gun, and well choose autopilot or scanner or radar mapper or atmospheric shielding or ecm but you can only have three of them.

      however, how it turned out i fell a little in love with the Falcon, mostly because it was surprising how well it worked out by using the few points the original ship has. the tip could be less pointed but else it’s a cool somekind of retro supersonic jet looking space ship (missile shaped vessel ;))

      i don’t like the tail of the Hawk to be honest, somehow it destroys the else nicely shaped aircraft.
      i have an impression everytime i work with the FFE geometry that some of the ships aren’t designed by the same hand. from my POV a FE2 Falcon looks different to a FFE Hawk, not because they are two different type of aircrafts, it’s how they are designed. How a Gyr is designed i.e. with all it’s sloppyness, sticked together like the Hawk or Kestrel while the old ships was made like from one cast.

      somehow the Falcon underscores this because it was like it would have planned to be made from bezier shapes while for the Hawk i had to redisgn many parts and still…

      i digged out the script for the merlin and after noticing why i stopped the progress i layed it on ice, i must find a solution for the flapping wings so that they look still close to the original (i won’t move the vertices and simply stretch the geometry).

      i noticed i lost the script for the “Turner Class” that’s sad.

    • #112345

      pardon me ๐Ÿ™‚

      the special thing about the hawk/kestrel are the many parts it’s made from and that i had to respect flipping over x axis, different position and due to that different texture coordinates for the same geometry. the wing is build over x axis and flipped for the use, either it follows the points clockwise or counter clockwise i kept this idea and thus my parts are all functions to respect the varying use. in general all parts are mirrored in this way for the Hawk except for the fuselage which is obviousely only used once (ok one could design a third ship from the parts using two fuselages why not?) one geometry multiple use and flipping by simply changing the winding order that’s quite clever. but well if one snoops int the objects and won’t know the exact use of certain parts he will wonder about the Kestrel mid-section, a part made of 6 points? what the heck should that be good for?

    • #112291

      just some pictures




      merry what?

    • #112348

      looks like i have a good reason to re-post my screenshots ๐Ÿ˜‰
      (or probably to start a new thread? this new kind of blog style, all in one page is somewhat annyoing as more as i post as longer you have to wait until all is loaded from on a certain limit it get’s uncomfortable, also i was guessing about a own section for “phoenix” but it’s still to early for this, not before i compiled my own).

      here’s a slight update to the cobby, this is the first time i tried to wash out the texture i never used this idea because usually the variable material in pioneer is far to saturated for such but since the FE2 palette i use is mostly metallic grey with a scent of a color i gave it a try and it ended out well.
      if it uses a dark green blue or red it won’t look that good this is what i labelled as “tan” the skin is already orange (or what is left of the orange brown texture).

    • #112349

      ahh.. finally but unfortunately the pictures vanished in a mysterious way in the meantime, lol and no critics to the admins here it’s not your fault.

      i stumbled over this here:

      it didn’t looks exactly like a lockheed sr-71 it looks exactly like the Kestrel (or vice versa).

    • #112358

      That’s by Roger Dean. He actually glued a bird’s skull onto a plastic model of an SR-71, then drew it. I had that model kit as a child, but I didn’t put a bird’s head on it.
      I think those tiny ships only make sense as police ships. They wouldn’t need a hyperdrive.
      I’d love to see the pictures sometime! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • #112367

      Oooh I recognise that album cover! Budgie was a great group back in the day!

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