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    MKIII 😉

    New will be the “Harris” (that weird large X-wing thing), “Spar”, “Osprey”, “Osprey-X”, “Transporter”, “Lanner” and “Lanner II”

    A bunch of classics here on the cheap if you get them all in one bundle


    Yeah, I flew a Harris for a while. It was great and I loved the look of it. The shuttle and the lifter may be lame, but there may come a time in a player’s ‘life’ when they’re out of money due to fines or damage and have to downsize. I haven’t even gotten around to playing your last upload, but I’m looking forward to the next one!


    never mind, i haven’t even since a couple of weeks, right when i attempted to make the clip i noticed the broken station animation. thus i had to fix that and because of i added the cargo to the package drops.

    like i said modded it’s even harder, shuttle and lifter are weaker as my shuttles.
    you will never use a lifter or shuttle in FE2/FFE but you can’t get around that in Phoenix (except you change the starting ships). For this i started to refine my calculation for the mission timelimit based on the distance. instead to use a logarithm i just copied walterars calculation for the payment.
    it’s based on a square root result and yes i’ve read that this is a probate method to get an exponential curve as result. this is exactly what i needed, more time for short distances, less for long because you can accelerate longer and since the ships are very weak (yet still impossible) you need some time and even more fuel. perhaps i balance this even harder, it results greatly in gameplay value without to write one line of code or script. i just have to lower the thruster efficiency again and it will be a lot more challanging.

    yes i want that someone who will play this tard feels a bit proud when he succeeded “finally i made it!” and if you have to try several times to reach this shitty station, i often need myself more as one try, i’m no god.

    no one will ever scoop fuel from a gas giant if he’s not forced, but it’s there it just waits to be used. i noticed that since the gas giants have a surface (the diameter is to debate, but i accept it as limit where the gas gets thick as a hard shell) it’s much harder to scoop fuel.

    i know in good old fe2 you can even land and even deploy mining machines on gg, i favored them. overall personally i feel it won’t matter where you deploy them the harvest seems to be random, even when i’ve read not to long ago about places which are more or less suitable for mining, i guess, or my experience is that this won’t matter, it’s random (it’s still debatet about a game from ’93? wow!).
    to me it mattered most that they won’t be found, because every mining machine will vanish once, most likely this is a simple counter and a random halt. even to stash them away using the wormhole bug won’t help.

    however, left open ends imho, even in fe2, it’s there but not actively used, scooping and mining can be challanging but you have to force a player to do it, except he’s a weirdo like me who has to try all no matter if it makes sense or if it’s part of a “storyline”. fe2 has no real and liked to leave this to the player, i liked that but most disliked exactly this fact to find themself in an open space without any special goal.

    likewise a stupid galaga clone wins in gameplay due to some coins and blinking things (which is a bit a riddle to me) a player loves to be honored with something, even if that is just a blinking thing on a screen. what is the real magic of mario, mario? luigi, princess peaches? no the coins i can collect are the magical ingredient.

    riceballs, pardon me sega are less interesting even when very sympathic.

    why did ppl play frenetically tetris?
    because of the eye candy with the trepak dancing russians.
    the title music (so far it’s an execerpt of a classical piece) is still a hit in the web.
    “tetris ahh the game with the trepak dancing russians” who will remember what it was about?

    eye candies come and go but that thing blinkie bllnky works always.

    honestly John Doherty shouldn’t have entitled it “Zombie Marbles” – “Zombie Diamonds” make them blinking semitransparent and it might become a hit.
    The game is a challanging short game in which the machine always wins.
    different colored marbles on which you have to shoot with the right color to stop them from growing, slow approach but horrible, just like zombies, not to stop.
    20 minutes of action if one likes that.

    as usual “it’s just a developers toy gernot” – dammit it’s one of the best games for the old machine.

    — to the harris
    you really used it? i guess i’m a very biased federal 😉
    unlike the FFE ships which are held in one color for this ships (almost the whole range of new ships) i used some colored materials. the harris looks hmm so and so, aometimes the combination is good and next time it produces nausea.


    the cockpit is of cours an addition, but it needs one (likewise the turner) imho.

    it won’t need it, but one thing for sure already such a little thing like a cockpit gives you an idea of the size.

    that large black whatever it should be on the Spar (and i guess even Harrier) one could guess it’s a window? in this size? i replaced even with such a cockpit thing.

    in general the beziers for this ship are present, but it’s horrible put together, the sides which are now clearly convex, give in ffe the impression of being convex from the side, if veiwed from front they are in fact concave but the rear end requires a convex shape. the wings are paperthin on the rostrum and the bottom is folded in that much that everything else is as paperthin on the rostrum.
    all of this you won’t notice in the way the model is drawn in ffe.


    but exactly that is what differs them from the old models, they have more details as Fe2 could ever draw and didn’t “abused” the simple fact that the resolution is such low that you won’t notice something.
    the absolute peak of this is the “radioactive” label on the cobra mk3, no way to be displayed in frontier but it’s there. if it would be a ffe ship it wouldn’t be there at all – because you won’t notice it.
    the absolute vice versa is to trick with a circle a shape (Gyr) or to use a blob as geometry (Mantis).
    almost all later ships have simply main thrusters and basta.

    another one i liked to put some effort in was the osprey, it’s a nice fighter and i guess this time they captured it, it’s not an airplane like the eagle or falcon, it’s clearly a spaceship but not as weird as some of the rest.


    looks like missed to make a shot of the osprey-x, i used a different way to texture it as for the osprey. the “X” is textured more from the side as the “osprey”. it can be diffuclut to project on a round shape.

    the wings i cut a little, in the orignal they are even more curved and more is vertical, impossible to project on, even if i would have used a angled projection it would have been bad and smeared, it’s still but i guess acceptable.


    these two was made in a hurry by me, they was quite easy to make



    ah you might have noticed on the osprey-x that i removed the “elite” label and replaced it with…
    no it’s not “Frontier Developments” it just reminds of “Frontier First Encounters” written in the same way. i guess that’s only fair.

    finally a ship of one can think “easy”, true the shape is easy to make, that easy that it needed a lot of enhancemnets to make a ship out of it. i put in this ship far more time as in many other, the lousy transporter and imho it turned out much better as the last i made for FFED3D. It follows a similar idea and due to the reason that we have no turrets in Pioneer i made out of my turret design a counsel.
    which imho suits to such a ship, reasonable or not.


    here’s the game
    Phoenix 02 20 2019


    and the FFE ships mod
    FFE ships 02 20 2019

    erm, the osprey and the osprey-x look very similar, but in FFE they are two complete different models, not even the wings are reused. they gave the “X” a slightly larger size for this it needs a different geometry, also the wings even when they look similar are not exactly the same in FFE. for my model i reused the wings of the osprey the difference is very small wherefor the rostrum differs in relations.


    WOW Gernot! You really out did yourself here! If you don’t mind, and the mods reopen it, I wouldn’t mind putting this in the old Pioneer thread over on the Frontier Forums. I’ve not updated it in over a year so it’s gone dormant but this is a great excuse to dust it off again. Some great posts from years back in this by yourself too I might add. 😉

    Anyways, great work again Gernot! o7


    not much new things, this ship the saker 3 has cost some time, i didn’t feel to well (flatulence) and corrupted the module scripts 😉


    i started it as it is in FFE (the collision mesh still reflects this) and changed the head and bended quads of the wings to bezier shapes. due to that the top half won’t exactly fit on the bottom half caused by the way the beziers “tighten” points when they draw a curve i had to insert a bezier triangle (red, resp. different colors for the diff. skins). it’s not perfect the top and bottom shell is to much curved thus the top projection smears heavy on the edges, by changing the points for the shell i could make this better but i decided not because imho it’s not perfect but ok. it is quite some work to change this and the skin, when i convert (even if that isn’t needed fpor the saker) it to FFED3D or into a SGM model (which i will in one or the other way, probably i make a cheap conversion from the direct-x meshes for FFED3D, i just have to scale the mesh up in the file or i can make them oversized for FFE3D but fitting for Pioneer and scale them down using the model .ini file of FFED3D).

    the modules give me headakes, i’m really a lousy scripter 🙂
    while i have to say and i said this long long ago, the translation didn’t makes it easier for a single one to work on them. i still think “the english of the game is such simple a translation isn’t needed” and it would make scripting far more easy. i remember that it was rough but very easy in the beginning, this almost everybody can learn. i think making it more complex and especially adding various languages has kept some off (if not some then at least me).

    the mean thing is that if one languages is once setup for a module all modules must include this language, you can’t simply say i don’t need translations, the translator requires the once set up tables for a language, that’s a bit stupid in this way you can’t simply default to english and bypass the translations.

    i managed it due to rearranging the hierarchy in the translator that the adverts choices will default to english but i can’t do the same for other sections of the translator script.

    imagine there would be no shitty translation – no such shitty useless problems 😉
    and really for a game like Pioneer translatiomns aren’t needed and neither i will script missions where such could be of need (e.g. the hard coded missions of FFE).

    in fact i would like it vice versa as simple as it was this would open other possibilies or bring in a realisable range, to generate missions resp. short careers a few missions in a chain i.e..

    and this is certainly more interesting as to have a half dozend of different languages to manage.

    but on the other hand i can bybass the translator and put the advert choices in front of the script like in the past and use no translator at all though to bypass also all problems.
    because like i said i have to test often if this or that works and if you have to respect many languages this get’s hard.
    so this will be my future approach for the local taxi missions, i liked to implement it to “Taxi” but that complicates it a lot, produces a lot of errors and didn’t fits exactly to the existing “Taxi” missions overall, so they will be a own module using no translator.

    things like a proper calculation for the distance of a mission resp. the timelimit is much more of importance as languages. which i guess i achieved now, i only have to implement resp. change the existing taxi missions so they will end in a specific station in the target system and not any station in the target system. such a target system can have a range from 20 AU to 1500 AU (the widest i remember) due to this a fixed value of 4 days won’t work for many systems, even if you don’t have to dock to a specific port, if it’s i.e a tertiary system you will “materialise” in range to the central stars but they mustn’t be the one having planets or beeing populated, vice versa it is, often only the third in a group is populated or has planets at all. thus your needed time will be usually far above the given 4 days for interplanetary travel. same for the deliveries here i still even didn’t solved this for extra planetary missions.
    however i’m quite proud i got that thing with the mission cargo right, recently i added this to the mission roster so you will see how much space a delivery mission will use up.

    this gives a lot more troubles as to script any model, i get nowhere in one day with that to be honest.

    due to that i’m not sure if the delivery module is working proper i will link here the new script (script only to replace the one in “modules/deliveries”). i guess it contains an error, i forgot to check for the exact “mission.weight” if you are in time and have no “mission.weight” even or because the “mission.weight” is zero the mission isn’t completed (i checked for >0 instead >= “mission.weight”). unfortunately if you fail due to missing cargo the contractor will answer with that he’s displeased with your late arrival, but usually you won’t drop your mission cargo so this addition to the script has a very low priority to me.

    what do you think would a random cargo (from a short table of suitable ones) make some sense?
    let’s say for a “package” or “crate” possibilities from “Rubbish” to “precious metals” for “moving home” simply “consumer goods”, probably an item will have the higher value as you gain by the mission and you will like to sell the good instead to deliver, this could be charged with a fine or as future aspect noted in your character.

    to make missions which are respecting and altering you character is of much more interest as languages and if that is only one module. guessed you do that for a given times you could be “fined” with less good contracts and vice versa.

    the sense of “donate to cranks” is what in FE2?
    to push your character a little and not only to waste a lot of money.

    a “certificate of valor” after finishing you first manual delivery a second diploma for the first succeeded scout mission (a special one for if you did that manual) is of much more interest as languages (the “shiny things” i talked about, give me a medal even if that is a virtual one, “permissions & medals” who didn’t cares for them – i want them all useful or not, complete the first recon mission bad only to get this special medal).
    i.e. in old Wing Commander you get a stripe or a medal for every poop you made, they have no use but it’s nice to look at them, just like in reality some lametta.

    as i see things and as hard it is already for me languages only stand in my way.


    interesting thruster setup, forward and down.

    geraldine i guess that was again a good idea, perhaps i can gain a little interest in frontier-forums.
    if not it’s still the right place for the “on the edge” FFE conversions.

    i guess pioneer needs a diet and this in alpha31 state not to talk about now, it needs a diet and concentration on the basic gameplay there is the game – just like the LMR FFE ships.
    it needs beatable AI to be real fun, just as one aspect, to beat by me else i won’t feel pride of what i did.

    in despite of that i repeat myself, even with almost no missions it was a lot of fun in alpha9 state to beat up the pirates and to assasinate. i haven’t forgot the one of the rare comments to my clips to one of a battle “which version is that?” yeah in which version you can have successful dog fights?
    it might be to easy for a veteran, whatever since that i have still only one successful fight to note and i start to feel that this was pure luck.

    it’s no fun to add pirates close to you if you enter a insecure system, you will be blown to pieces so or so. so you avoid this and they are now spread quite far from you. in pioneer a persuer (you or the ai) can’t overhaul thus they usually won’t match up with you before you reached a station. the whole shit is “blocked” because of to hard AI. imho it downright destroys the basic gameplay.

    it’s slighly (but just a tiny little bit) better i feel since i use quite low angular thrust values.
    experiences would be welcome, i feel they are ok like i said a ship like the transporter is as clumsy like in FE2. since i use a table with multipliers it’s first easy to change that for all ships and second it increases the chances to win a battle against an assasination target because they are usually quite large ships, at least you can win against them if you lose against offending fighters.

    it doesn’t have to be easy as in FE2/FFE in this games you can hang on a large ships tail when you match speed and course and it can’t evade you.

    sometimes they are probably to weak, i just copied the thrust values from FFE and used the reverse thrust even as lateral, i noticed some ships can ladden hardly lift.
    the “turner class” seems to steady run out of fuel (ands this in a small system), dunno i guees the large capacity and the “military drive 4” are the reason. the fuel consumption is dependant to the fitted default drive. i lowered that to a (quasi) “class 3 military” fueluse but it still runs out of fuel, i have to check this ship. that’s maybe a bit mean to make it dependant to the drive class but it’s a good way to make larger ships less interesting because as larger the ship as higher the fuelconsumption will be, it will be anyway due to the mass and this boosts it. also this needs experience, the best way is to give a larger fueltank recently i use “half of hullmass” but it seems to be to low for heavy ships.
    i guess an expression (like i used for the timelimit) would be the coolest for fueltankmass and fueluse, instead to give each a special fueltankmass or a fueluse based on a table (which is also a method to standardize it).

    dunno if that is possible, even better would be if the “cargo ships” (the ones you almost never see except when they are docked) would load some extra fuel like a player has, because i like that the fuelconsunption often exceeds the tanks capacity, you need to plan your missions, also this can make a simple thing a little more interesting, if you can’t act blindfolded.
    in principles it needs a calculation like i used for the timelimit to get a rough value for the needed fuel for a given distance, however i solve this such a background AI transporter i can also load by default half of it’s capacity with water, it doesn’t have to make sense you hardly will notice one.
    it’s posssible to shoot them down i guess, i’m not sure if you will be fined, i never tried.
    i guess even if they are slow in a small system like the solar system the distance won’t be far enough to overhaul one even if it’s a lame transporter. each time you got closer he’s further from you, it’s really hard in pioneer to match up with a ship on it’s way when it’s in full flight.

    i have to peep into this module to, first they need extra fuel second you will be fined for killing under any condition and/or it will be irreversibly noted.

    a further idea for a gameplay (sort of) i had this week, i made a “isosol system” it’s in principles a copy of the solar system but in a far out region. when i started to play there i had the idea to put this system named exactly like the solar system on the opposite side of the galaxy (btw, as only “sol” system to start in). that would be
    far from home 🙂
    i recognized i can make any system to an “explored” one.
    it would mean that i have to create waypoint systems or factions along the way (will someone ever find a single system between thousends?), they could or i guessed they will be in a distance of roundabout one year, the time you need for servicing, that means they will be “i don’t know” you won’t see them close to you, could be puzzling, to much puzzling.
    i thought about to inrease the missions range so i can put the waypoints in this distance then they would occasionally appear as mission locations or i can script some “GNN” news which will lead you there by “rumors” (or even not).

    “get home to sol” can be a treat through the half galaxy.
    i could lead players to that supergiant blackhole which waits to be used for something.

    btw, it isn’t that bad to start in sol, that’s the background for this idea, when i started in “Isosol” (resp. “Lososi” i mirrored all names) i recognized it’s not such a bad place to start in.
    the profit isn’t high, but 150 bucks from earth to pluto aren’t bad and it’s to manage without extra fuel, it’s quite easy to begin even if the profit isn’t that high it took me several flights more to make the cash for the autopilot but therefore they wasn’t long or difficult. a very bad idea it’s to dock with “Ikarus” (a special station which i placed in solar system) i placed it in closest possible orbit to the sun and the autopilot usually can’t handle the suns gravity with such a miserable ship as the ip shuttle, but it’s possible to dock manually or half and half, at least you have to bring the ship in a close range and in a not to high acceleration then the autopilot manages it but when he tries to fly itself to the station the autopilot semms to miscalculate the suns gravity and gets faster and faster instead to break what means you are quite quick ashes. yep i’m satisfied with “Ikarus” a little to close to the sun.

    pluto even when it looks like a potatoe deceives in its size, yeah he looks like a planetoid but “Pluto is a Planet”. you will notice this when you ever fly manual to “pluto research station”, it really deceives its size, you guess you are close due to it’s irregular shape but you are still far away.

    erm yes, i added the “factory names” table to the module(s recently only one) to replace the small table for “deliveries”, it’s used only in one mission choice but i like to change this, it’s makes sense if someone works for this or that company. the companies vary from agricultural to nanotech and use a own surnames table as prefix i.e. “Schrader’s Bolts & Nuts”. i can make them depending on the station seed though it will be the same companies for a given station or on the system seed and it will be the same companies through the whole system. since i can only use the stations name to generate the adverts using the same tables it’s at hand to use the same for the missions so advertises and company names in contracts will be the same. for the modules i could even request the economy type of a system to generate different companies reflecting the economy but i can’t do this for the station adverts, which is on the other hand no problem why shouldn’t a food company advertise in a mining system, it’s the right place to make good profit but companies clients work for should or could reflect the economy.

    i thought a bit about the architectural problems, outdoor/hostile world, if i remeber tom right he said once this won’t be possible. at least not like it is now, but i’m not sure what if i use different sets? if i make stations and buildings explicit? that the engine can use only a given set for a given planet type. i know else it’s at least throughout the system but i guess there is a way to seperate them. i can name stations different based upon population or temperature (oxygenation is missing) though i guess i can select architecture in a similar way. and even if i have to update this table(s) manually it still would be worth a try.

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