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New Ship Models for FFED3D AJ by Potsmoke (Gernot)

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hi everybody

here i will post my updated ships and other models for FFED3D AJ
(do you like the "stud city shuttle"?)

i guess i have to index the content of the following post,

this post:
- screenshots of the new models

next post:
- screenshots of the alternative models (models which exist already in FFED3D).

third post
- links to download the new models from my onedrive account

i split them into three posts for two reasons;
first i have only limited time to edit a published post and i hope i can manage to upload all the stuff until monday morning,
second if all screenshots are in one post it will take maybe a little long to load them.

**new FFED3D models**


for what reason ever in FFE this ship is split into 5 sub-models!
you won't get a proper model dump since model 22 is only calling the sub-models
i recreated the shape based on the original coordinates with help of theunis de jong's "frontier meshview", scaled the model to the dumps of the sub-models for this ship.
i used model no. 193 (engine submodel) for a permanently rotating engine-part.

besides, all (new) ships use multiple skins.


i like this tiny ship, not very useful but true frontier style like the cobras and the rest of amphibia and preybirds (which they left for FFE).

Cobra MK I:
(re-release of my Cobra for Pioneer Space Sim, but i guess FFED3D still leaks of a Cobra MK I)

my odd cobra mk I
the ship doesn't fits exactly to FFED3D (not yet), thruster and position lights locations vary.


for this ship i created also a turret submodel, yes it needs a better skin and yes it's primitive - but at least somewhat better as the original one.

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**alternative FFED3D models**

Eagle Long Range Fighter

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Eagle MK II

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Eagle MK III

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i know there are three eagle models for ffed3d,
that's why they are titled "alternative".
at least this is a quite colorful version.


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needs some work on the model to fix thruster positions.


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this ship also needs to be reviewed, but i guess until it's a good alternative to the existing Conny.


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leaks still of a proper skin and can't challange the recent Merlin (not yet πŸ˜‰ )

Imperial Courier and Trader

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my most aged model - still a beautiful ship imho.

so far for the "new & old ships"

i even started a "Lion Transporter" but it's still in a very primitive state.

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new ship models:

link to folder containing models (.7zip format):!AhX1Ed1178sOg3LduGeTnWbar85J ](!AhX1Ed1178sOg3LduGeTnWbar85J

link to folder containing alternative models:!AhX1Ed1178sOg3jJGh8tJWaRJhAo ](!AhX1Ed1178sOg3jJGh8tJWaRJhAo

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Wonderful work Gernot, thank you so much for these! πŸ™‚

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hi steve
you can remove the "Hawk" from the list,
it was a easy one since i re-used the parts from the "Kestrel" for it (likewise the original).

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"Lion Transport" is already in the dock, still very basic though

"Gyr" i started once for Pioneer as a conversion of the original "basic" (vector) model
it can be used as a starting point.

a "Python" or "Anaconda" (i'm not certain which one right now) should exist,
i know this because i fixed once something on it's animation.


missing ship:

not on your wish list, it exists but it's missing in "FFED3D AJ" (?)


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i'm not certain but i guess it's from "Sparks".


The Viper MK II had wrong normals on certain parts of its surface.

recent model
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model with corrected normals
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in the game the change will look like this

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because FFED3D uses double-sided material this glitch isn't to recognize easy.
wrong normals will result in wrong lighting.

(besides i really wonder what's the purpose of the cullmode, because it didn't changes anything on "culling",
wherefore a "clockwise wund" or "counterclockwise wund" material will should be single-sided and either one side should be culled, like the single sided material in the mesh-viewer).

further i know some models have little glitches in the animation, that's mostly because of wrong normals and a matrix which forces the part to align with the matrix which results in a constant flipping of the parts alignment to it's normals, by choosing a extremly high animation speed and many-thousend frames these glitches aren't well to notice but still exist.

just for completness:

i slightly overhauled "Lanner I" , i will add some more color variations soon.
i don't know eactly ehich one is in "FFED3D AJ", but this one has a overhauled landing gear.

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nothing new here, i've uploaded this version several times.

i was amazed to see the stud-city shuttle in the mods folder of FFED3DAJ (with full sight to the pilot).

i know we have one - but i rather like a std. FE2 shuttle,

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most of all i like to violate FFED3D and use my "Maneuverable Cargo Unit" as shuttle and upgrade this to 10/40 tons, thruster power and needs to be hacked that's why i didn't show off this alternative.

i would like to keep track of more values of the original ship specs;
- thruster positions are independant from the geometry and accessable like the turret pos.
- position and scale of submodels, would be really helpful.
usually in FFE the sub-models are called unscaled though this would be a sort of hack,
position of sub-models is mostly independant from geometry.
- it would be possible as well to reorient / scale the ship-labels (or any else labels)
- bounding-radius, scale and scaler (the line in the ship preview) are editable to

only the position-lights are usually just a vertex of the geometry,
but on the other hand i'm not sure if the original geometry has a use at all,
i always assumed it's used as collision mesh - but i don't know.
but as well i know the ship has a bounding-radius and with a high chance this is the "bounding size" of the geometry
(you touch something or get touched as soon as the bounding-radius is crossed by the path of the object) .

just because
if i make a hack no one else has much profit of it,
if it would be possible to control all via ship-specs it would enhance FFED3D a lot i guess.

mainly it's to give exactly this ship and the "Lifter" a proper use in the game - a unarmed shuttle ship but with cargo space enough to make some use of it.

some alternative models out of the bag (i'm up to make new ones, patience please πŸ˜‰


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the never seriously ment "Viper MK II" replacement,

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i've also fixed a few invisible things on my "Adder" - i had problems converting it into a binary-mesh (instead of the text format output)
now i found with help of "DX-mesh viewer" some so called "bow-ties" (joined vertices which are in fact physically displaced), the mesh viewer can help to get aware of certain misuses in the mesh.


under construction are the "Lion Transport" and "Gecko"

next will be maybe the "Tiger Trader" just because i liked to own this ship in old FE2.

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the links to all the models i uploaded so far.

i changed the folders somewhat,
now each model is stored together with at least one screenshot to identify the content of the folders
and a short description (sort a version history also).

i will keep to update the models (probably add a version #) in these folders.

[**new models**](!AhX1Ed1178sOg3LduGeTnWbar85J "!AhX1Ed1178sOg3LduGeTnWbar85J")

[**fixes**](!AhX1Ed1178sOhAHEhXtM52VFpQSi "!AhX1Ed1178sOhAHEhXtM52VFpQSi")

[**alternative models**](!AhX1Ed1178sOg3jJGh8tJWaRJhAo "!AhX1Ed1178sOg3jJGh8tJWaRJhAo")

buildings, buildings, buildings....
i noticed a lot of building are missing in "FFED3D AJ"
any specific reason?


a link to the good old "Direct X MeshView" program.
it's a extremly handy tool for converting / validating or simply to explore FFED3D models.

[MeshView](!AhX1Ed1178sOhFya-hafNrC3f7Pd "!AhX1Ed1178sOhFya-hafNrC3f7Pd")

it was part of the DX8 developement environment but has never been replaced by something useful as this one.

two handy tools made by "Theunis de Jong":
FrontierMeshes and ShowMesh

FrontierMeshes shows the FFE primitive models and their linked sub-models, vertices and other object data.
ShowMesh exports the Objects of FFE in "plain text" with explanations, i use this often.

[FrontierMeshes and ShowMesh](!AhX1Ed1178sOhF2vG2VS2sPRHYt9 "!AhX1Ed1178sOhF2vG2VS2sPRHYt9")

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hi steve
in no way we can have thruster flames for the IP Shuttle and a few others, they simply have no thruster vectors in the geometry and of course no calls for the thruster at such a vector, thus well maybe under certain conditions, maybe if you would override the original data.

yes, the falcon was once presented on elite-games, made soon after i showed them how to make windows, respectively that it is a model hirachy issue.

ha, ha, yeah i had some troubles downloading "FFED3D AJ" because of SpaceSimCentral.

i downloaded it from the alternative link:

it's presented here:
[ ]( "")

damned i have to take the bus else...

until next weekend.


edit: i missed the bus πŸ™

ok that means just i stay in my mothers house πŸ™‚

and i used this (dropbox) link to download the package:
[ ]( "")

spaceport anim? you make me curious!

it's something i was always annoyed about and on my old version of FFED3D i simply used only the basic models for the entries because i hate this steady moving gates.

yes i already made myself a blown-up head if this would be to solve from the models side (not for the first time) - it isn't.
it's bound to the way FFE animates things and the possibility of a dynamic geometry to move some vectors.
the gates (with a single exception) are just a quad and the gate doesn't "opens" in fact it's "shrinking and growing" while the text (the //// marks)
is moved together with the vectors.
animations in FFE, one could say, only have two states, this allows to animate something by moving vectors from pos.1 to pos.2,
but it also allows to have TWO independant states of a model which is the case for the spaceport entries and that's why it moves one time up and by the next call of the animation down and so on....

helpful to understand this is (again) "Frontier MeshView".
you can check the models needed for a spacestation entry and it will be obvious how it works.

it uses only 2 stages gate open or gate closed.

stage 1, request permission (open)
wait until "collision" and release stage 2 if
stage 2, perform entry animation
at end of stage 2 animation we enter the station

one has to write this down - dammit - only two stages, (30 years later it's still surprising with what tricks DB worked).
two stages and two positions - so simple it's mean

i asked this myself because it would be great if we didn't had to depend on the way the stations are animated in FFE and could use the stages.
it's possible to have different animation sets for a .x mesh
thus it would be possible to release the animation sets by a number (stage).
maybe we could even leave the standard geometry behind and would be able to create specific entries for the several station types.

but having really only two stages, one and a alternative, makes it impossible
this is almost as to have only a single one,
because to have state 1 we need state 0 and this is 2 (states).

very funny is also the fact that for a "hostile spaceport" the spaceport is secondary to the dock, the dock is the main model which has different companions depending on the seed.

ok that was some tech stuff mainly to make it aware myself.

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"ich schmΓΌcke mich nicht gern mit fremden Loorbeeren"
just in case: the "Lanner 1" belongs to "Uncle Bob", just in case someone get's a wrong idea and i get again entitled as plagiator πŸ™‚
i always felt free to fix certain models and that's why i uploaded them here and there for the use in this or that game.
i mean if i see ia broken animation (or in the case for the Lanner one of which even the modeller thinks it's weak)
i could fix such only for myself... but...

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erm WHAT?!

a humunculus?

a lifter?

in a spacestation dock?

cool idea!

could be my idea, but isn't
i mean yes
i remembered that i posted once, as a sort of provocation, that i would like robots flying around in a spacedock or whatever....
the topic was always the same "to much dynamic parts in your models - gernot".

surprising - of course

but well i thought you talked about a entry or a dock this was obvious, it's just that i really thought about the problems and you just reminded me of that.

in fact i like such "useless" stuff like a lifter buzzing around or ppl waving with their hands,
but really i like to see the gates open and close proper such has priority.

nonetheless - amazing - a humunculus πŸ™‚

and why not?
since it's a single player game and there is nothing going on as long as you are in the station, such a animation won't harm.
the dock will be only "drawn" as long as you stay in the station.

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A joyful winter solstice

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**New Ship:**


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[**download: Gecko**](!AhX1Ed1178sOhGMGebxhLkF9wzaF "!AhX1Ed1178sOhGMGebxhLkF9wzaF")

i feel the window and the whole cockpit is a little to large on this ship, i magined it in this way when i started out, even when i published the model now i started it quiet a while ago right after i finished the transporter and got a little disappointed with my "Lion". i'm not really satisfied with it, the slot like Window of the Krait is much better, nonetheless i left it in this size. it's still difficult to imagine a proper size for the window and cockpit even when i use the pilot as a sort of scale (i'm also not sure if the size of the ships in FFED3D is really proper, somehow i get the feeling it isn't. the reason is that i created now a couple of ships based on the original vectors, obviousely the scale for the object in FFE varies, the reason is the original data of the ships are always integer numbers and especially smaller ships are very large by original vectors, thus you have to scale the models different. but if i scale the result to the export of FFED3D i always get the same scale as result. i said i'm not sure and have to make this proof with a wider range of ships).

besides, i thought about to make "lightweight" versions of my ships (no cockpit, no transperent set parts, 8bit textures), just for the case someone dislikes my pilots or likes to keep the models in a compliant style to the rest of the ship models. it will remarkably reduce the polycount of my models.

the scale i use for my ships is 1:10.
i used a different one in the past based on the "wheel-spacestation"s entry, if you scale the height to 50m you get a little more as 10 times as result, but i decided to exchange the exactness for a simpler scale.

**Alternative Ship:**

also "normals fix 2" for the standard Viper MK II
unfortunately i missed last time exactly two triangles πŸ™
the updated version of this "normals fix" will be on my "OneDrive".

as i re-opened the model i got the feeling it desires a cockpit.
as a result we have now a modified "Viper MK II" with a cockpit and a pilot.

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[**download: Viper MK II - fixed normals (fix2)**](!AhX1Ed1178sOhAwB1FWCWEkriESS "!AhX1Ed1178sOhAwB1FWCWEkriESS")

[**download: Viper MK II - modified standard model**](!AhX1Ed1178sOhF5668mgN83QyXPj "!AhX1Ed1178sOhF5668mgN83QyXPj")

[new models](!AhX1Ed1178sOg3LduGeTnWbar85J "!AhX1Ed1178sOg3LduGeTnWbar85J")

[fixes](!AhX1Ed1178sOhAHEhXtM52VFpQSi "!AhX1Ed1178sOhAHEhXtM52VFpQSi")

[alternative models](!AhX1Ed1178sOg3jJGh8tJWaRJhAo "!AhX1Ed1178sOg3jJGh8tJWaRJhAo")

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aha - this simple it works

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![]( "")
a base with a animated lifter?


not animated but i found in FFE a stationtype (which i can't remember to have ever seen this, on the other hand often you play and don't take a single look at the environment.

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on this airport-like station are placed two shuttles, they do nothing except to lurk around there.
but at least they put two ships as models onto this station.

as one can see the idea isn't new

disregarding this fact (i discovered it later) i picked up the idea from steve and put a few vehicles in two cities / stations / quarters of cities how you like to name this sub-models ever which combine the various station and city tiles.

somthing else

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this "angled house" is rotated wrong in FFE (as well in FFED3D), took me until i had installed my own model to notice this,
it's very offending because it's to see on "old blackelk" which is the default starting location.

another mistake as i guess, in the same city-type

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this church is definately covered by the skyscraper, in the game you can only see a few graves.

besides i fixed both little mistakes with a hack
there is a unused vector in the layout for the tile with the church and the rotation of the angled house can be edited.

as i was taken a journey through FFE's objects (once more) i stumbled over more funny things.

the hanger models would be animated and the above named station type "old blackelk" would have sliding gates.
but they aren't to see in the game there is nothing resp. the animation doesn't works.

for the hangers i'm not so sure i didn't checked the appearynce in FFE, but for "old blackelk" i'm sure that these sliding gates aren't there even if they are coded.

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BUT what gave me headakes is this objekt,

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the ***** dome!

it's combined of two submodels while the latter is called by the city-models.
there are some trees in the dome which get enabled / disabled with a global value (e.g. trees in dome or city)

the problem is
the geometry is scalable and will be scaled fit when it's called.
but ffed3d doesn't do that with the solid models, it leads to various problems with the scalable submodels
(i.e. the scanner dish)

if this could be solved and sub.models would get scaled like in FFE i would be grateful.

the problem with the dome is it can't be replaced we have to live with that shitty line geometry and the bright green
untextured patch (except....).

i can disable the dome of course but that's not what i like
i can disable it and replace it where needed - works but not for the "trees in dome" sort of dome,
because if i disable it this model will have no dome and i can't replace the model for "trees in dome" because it's also
used by various cities (what a idea to make the trees in the dome depending on which model is calling it, but in this way it turned out "one dome fits for all purposes").



why all this mess?

i took the challange to create some buildings and a animated vessel of some sort, the city tile i chose was what is to see on "scirocco station"

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this tile is sometimes placed in a dome (e.g. "scirocco station"), combined with other tiles in a dome or
on a outdoor city.

and that's the simple reason why i fiddled around with the "dome".

the skyscrapers and commercial/industrial buildings are seperate sub-models, model 251 is only the street cross
and calls the buildings depending on the number for this system build.

thus i replaced the buildings except one for which i took resp. left wandours "radio station" (this model has now a slightly
smaller radar dish but therefore it's rotating).

what turned out is this

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you can still see my own dome model but i removed it because the shit doesn't works for all cases as long as
the model won't be scaled the original geometry.

the buildings are primitive
but first i like to get results in a reasonable timespan
second one shouldn't waste to much with the buildings, high-poly models make no sense neither large textures
for things you usually only see from far away.
i feel i wasted already to much processor time with the animations.

some previews on hoe "old blackelk" and similar cities will look with my new buildings


thus pleas download the crap i collected it would be a help to gather as much as possible and
prob. to give possible doubled buildings a chance to get a different slot (model #)
like i did with the "honeycomb style" bulding and the "tower of tard" which replaced both the same model
but anyway the "honeycomb" suits better to what it replaces now.

on the following shot you see how my hack works out in FFED3D - a church where it was hidden before from the builing behind
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next how the "tower of tard" looks and my replacement for the watertower which certainly preserves no water.

a overview which shows the next problem, it's in the upper right corner and this city tile isn't made of submodels it has randomly placed geometry which means if you like to replace the tile the buildings won't be placed randomly.

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limited amount of pictures - i forgot

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that's the "tower of tard"

another issue with the complete "FFED3D AJ" installation.
the texture for the skyscraper which is to see on back of the church
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has a broken texture and 3/4 of the building are invisible due to the parts of the texture which are transparent set by alpha channel.
i have no idea how this happened because what i downloaded once hasn't such a broken texture.
(ok therefore you had free sight to the else covered church - but i didn't think this was the reason)
i guess i have to post this (and other) issue under a different thread.

the "fixed" buildings texture is in my "models default installation" which will i upload and link here.

to my models
i decided to upload them as packages, that's the reason for the "models default installation"
it will contain all models which are unique incl. my new ship models in a "light" version (without cockpit)
as well as my new buildings.

again i appreciate help much to collect at this time foremost all available buildings though we have a basic install
in which we can place new models instead to have a 100 MOD's for each model one, if one isn't unique resp.
a alternative model its ok to keep it as a MOD but even here i prefere MOD packages,
e.g. potsmokes alternatives or whatever.
still i wil keep the single MOD's updated but not as quick as the package.

the contents of each pack is listed in the download folder as well as in the zipped folder

the rest will be in a MOD for
- new ships (full version)
- alternative ship models
- alternative buildings

new ships in "light" (or standard) version and new buildings i will place in the "default install",
but there are even seperate packs for the new stuff, just if one likes to choose which he likes or disklikes.

the links will follow as soon as the stuff is uploaded.

erm yes,
i put now a "*.jsgme" description to the new mod packs
(i wasn't sure before how to do this best the recent ones are numbered and i thought that won't be good if one has a similar number,
but you can name them by the mods name and this will be unique).
which is a simple text file, but shows up in JSGME as description to the MOD.

if your'e not sure which number is which model,
take "Frontier MeshView" as help πŸ™‚

no, i started to give them a name by which they can be identified e.g. "tower of tard" or simply the name i found in "MeshView" (if).
a skyscraper is a skyscraper and a commercial / industrial something which looks like a bunker of some sort.

i've updated my church as well and removed the z-fighting problem - funny how it shows your machines local time.

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yet another preview to my "default installation"
it includes some fixed models like the "swimming pool"
occasionally i've read (i guess on Elite-Games) that Andy had a problem to proper fix the wrong rotation of the object.
that's like i expected bound to the nature of the objects in FFE.
however - it was a sneeze to fix it.
one reason is rooted in the kartesian coordinate systems.

blender or most CAD are oriented righthanded
FE2 resp. FFE is oriented lefthanded,
further use most CAD the Z axis pointing upwards while FFE and DX models use Y is up.
one, the "hand" causes that models are mirrored from one coordinate system to the other
and the second rotating over X axis displaces the centre of a object
because the height Z becomes depth and Y is height.

use your hands like like i did on my photo to understand this better.

however if you rotate and center the object proper (centered exactly like the original*) and clear all transforming data
like scale and rotation it should work out right.

*centered like the original, the swimming pool is fortunately on height 0 (Y = 0),
but many models aren't.
many objects in the game are out of center,
some the offices are extremly displaced.
FFE uses ALWAYS the center of the geometry as center no matter how you center your replacement object.
thus if a building is build 40 units below 0 then the center is below 0 and center is always vector 0
which obviousely isn't X = 0, Y = 0, Z = 0 as usual.
logically if you think about how such a geometry like in this game is build.

i guess but i'm not sure that FFE uses a issue which we encountered once in pioneer.
if you displace a models geometry by its vectors (not moving the whole object only displace the verticles
plus the object mustn't be reoriented when called as sub-model)
you move the object out of the light source and get a different shading as result.

the result are two similar white buildings which appear in a slightly different shading.

i see only this for a practical reason why some buildings geometry is displaced this extreme.

i'm aware there is a lot of water in london, but the case is proper oriented pools and not london

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further i removed the cross from my church, it shouldn't represent a specific religion, it has now a weathercock on top.
neither i like this church much, i don't like religion at all and would feel more comforatable with something modern
as such a church.
also because it's the same church for a wide range of the galaxy....

this is the overview to "old blackelk" - sorry

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until the tard is uploaded i post here the content list of the "default model folder" and what's in the other packages
which should help to keep track of the models for FFED3D
in this way you don't have to download it to see what's the content.

i hope i can stay to this sytem and keep the packages updated, especially the default models folder.

no fear it doesn't lists all models of FFED3D only the differences to the "FFED3D AJ" build i downloaded.

the purpose of this folder is to update all models with the latest crap i gathered

this leaves a better overview to what is definately a "MOD" (replacing a existing object)

if you update your FFED3D or FFED3DAJ "MODELS" folder with this it will add or change;

- all new buildings included in "MODELS new buildings"

- changes a few existing models

- adds many of what was included in the "MODS" folder of "FFED3DAJ complete install"

- adds my new ships in a "light" version (no cockpit & pilot, no transparent set areas)
i decided to include the "light" versions in the default install

- changes most of the models textures to 8bit wherever possible
(sorry or not so sorry, you won't notice this easy,
personally i also changed all textures to 8bit or greyscale wherever possible)

MODS (or missing Models) included:

3 Missile by Arn (just because, it's already there. however only model #3 works)
20 Falcon by Jahell
30 Viper Defense Craft by "Coolhand" SteveT
74, 77, 238 Axeblade Station by Arn
162 Crater by Jahell
32, 201 Saker MKIII by Jahell
14 Escape Pod by Krim
19, 32, 185, 186, 187 Osprey and Osprey-X by Krim
233 New Hanger by Jahell
288 Landing Pad by Wandour
302 Terminal Hanger by Wandour
41 Lanner by Uncle Bob (recently only one skin, it's bookmarked)
edit: wrong i've added a new model (the latest version i've made) with multiple skins the description is already obsolate

26 Sidewinder by unknown
33 Merlin Attack Fighter by Jahell
23, 24, 25 Eagle LRF, MKII, MKIII by Arn
96, 97 ECM Antenna by Arn

fixes 34 Viper MKII (flipped normals)
fixes 61 Boa Freighter (to fast animated)
fixes 39 Constrictor (no landing gear animation)
fixes 371 Pool (wrong orientation)

adds following new ships (by potsmoke):

21 Hawk (light = no cockpit & pilot, no transparent set areas)
22, 193 Kestrel (light)
27 Krait (light)
28 Gecko (light)
36 Cobra MK I (light)
53 Transporter (light)
213 Turret

changes following building:
392 changed to 403 (model suits better and to leave space for the new 392)

adds following missing buildings:

392 "tower of tard"
370 "commercial" (radio station) by wandour
(this is a overhauled model with a smaller but therefore rotating dish)

adds following buildings (by potsmoke):

86 base with 2 landing pads 2 (animated model)
251 "city commercials" (animated model)
263 "skyscraper" (vintage pioneer)
369 church (revisited model, no z-fighting)
372 small house
373 three sided (small) obelisk (replaced with a statue)
374 trees
377 commercial bld
378 commercial bld
379 skyscraper
380 skyscraper
381 skyscraper
459 grave

i'm open for suggestions
if you feel "hey - this bld looks shit" feel free to tell me (i will for sure have a stupid excuse ready).

that's already a start to fill the project with models and fix the remaining issues.

i will see this game complete (unlike pioneer πŸ™‚ ).

recently only the link to the top level folder,
you will have to browse through the folders to find the files, sorry but i'm tired and have to wqork tomorow.

[!AhX1Ed1178sOg2bLIO8zUIkdF3Pl ](!AhX1Ed1178sOg2bLIO8zUIkdF3Pl "!AhX1Ed1178sOg2bLIO8zUIkdF3Pl")

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Posts: 522
Topic starter  

i'm aware of the "cutout" transperency
this can't be solved in this way and the trees was a experimental version i still had on my drive,
usually you won't go that close to the buildings....
but yes it annoyed me to
and i changed the trees and and graveyard
the problem is the polygon count

possibility 1 "tricked" trees and bushes,
need only a few quads and a small texture but if not sorted e.g. by a geometry flag
the transperent set models will be rendered sometimes before and cutout
or sometimes after another geometry (mesh, object, model).

the same problem appeared with my "vintage tower" which is more a placeholder,
i guess recently i solved simply by removing the transparent dome.
but anyway i doesn't like the model in this game
or it needs to be changed.
it's to small, not by scale but by floors, the entiere building is to small compared to the rest of buildings.
it's anyway a bit a problem, especially for the city type "old blackelk", some buildings are gigantic
and would have about 200 floors.
should i keep this gigantic size or make smaller buildings which look a little more reasonable?

some sub-models use variable geometry and this can't be replaced with a solid model,
means it will look always the same instead of changing the look depending on use.
i made one - it's suitable but not really good, a bit to large and to dense if all buildings
are used instead of randomly a couple.

nr. 2
i created a path on base of some trees and made also 2 dimensional cheated trees,
it worked out well but the polygon count is far to high for such a heavy repetive used model.

nr. 3
finally i made some "Broccoli" which looks best,
they doesn't show this problem and have a acceptable polycount.
while i tweaked the trees, i recognized that if a models normals are set "solid"
(have no smoothing therefore soft shading isn't possible and every face has it's genuine normals direction,
or is "flat shaded" in other words),
i can save some frames per second especially if the model is used repetively,
of course texture and shading is what costs most.
it's wise to use rather small textures for repetive used models which usually only decorate the scenery.

"old blackelk"s spaceport has a little bit to much polygons imho,
it looks very nice but eats up all for itself
and it get's problematic to add the rest of buildings for the city.

to wandours model nr. 370, i replaced it in my standard installation with one of mine
but also i fixed the wrong rotated model, changed it a bit and moved the texture so it fit's now exactly,

it's now a MOD, because if you use this model cities of the paris and london type
will look a bit weird with 100's scanner dishes.
a simple commercial building looks more reasonable,
if then it should be used as a replacement for a model which isn't used that often,
2 or 3 per city would look fine - but not 100.

"quenisset" shows well how the radar-dishes look compared to a simple commercial bld.

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Posts: 522
Topic starter  

something different,
i have no idea in what state the shader scripts now are.
i missed last time to download the latest version of FFED3DAJ.

i had this idea to get at least what we had in beginning in pioneer.
less glossy surfaces and at least a little control over glossy / matte.

i really would have liked to present here a good solution which uses a specularity map
a specularity map would give control over it and imho it makes even a bump-map unnecessary.
you can reach a good depth for structures using the specularity.

but i guess i'm better in making models as in tweaking shader scripts.

thus i only abused the texture itself to influence the specularity,
at least black and very dark textured stuff will be matte and only near to white will have the glossy specularity.
it isn't a really good solution
because especially you like to have a black or marine coloured window glossy,
while maybe on a building a matte white surface.

nonetheless it gives a idea of how it could look.

both pictures in former post are made with such shader scripts,
but because there isn't much to see of the glossy surfaces this to compare,

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only what is very bright will be really glossy

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finally a small ship update
better said a fix

i found out (by accident πŸ™‚ ) that the escape capsule has a landing gear
or would have
it's just not animated...
it is now
and it's a quite unexpected landing gear.

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i didn't added a single bolt it was all there.


i guess that covers most of the changes i made in the last two weeks.
recently i can't show you a screenhot of the few new buildings i made,
but they are in the "standard model installation"

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Topic starter  

really a 100 (or close to)

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Posts: 522
Topic starter  

pardon me my friend
i have to upload them
you will need to have patience until monday morning.

the upload speed my mom has (and even i would have caused by old telephone wires) is lousy.
but anyway the free OneDrive account is very slow in uploading (recently i'm waiting for a large file to be uploaded, the rotten soundtracker modules i offered yerars ago only a new compilation and played back resp. converted with a diff. software).
apart from the space there must be a difference, else you would feel deceived as paying customer.

i guess that's ok especially because they don't pester you with advertises or even worse, popups.
to be fair - it's almost social, the paying customer pays the server space for the "free rider" and this from a company named microsoft, it really surprised me, but it's a gift to every registered "ms works" / "ms office" user, even if i registered a works version from 2000, a sort of service i really appreciate.
of course they can expect that a lot of "gifted" users will open a payed account, but you don't have to if you're satisfied with
15 GB space and a lower upload speed (while i started with 5 GB the rest was a "loyal bonus" for my trust in MS (caugh - ms-doze? i even don't trust in that the sun will rise tomorrow)).
but it's neat made after they changed the product from "SkyDrive" to "OneDrive"
you can place a picture in a folder and it's been showed on the folders icon by default and they are large enough that you can figure out what it is.
besides i don't know but it seems they even never peeped in my files,
a couple years ago i had for a quite long time, some years some classical music on my onedrive for public download
"Holst - the Planets" this would be copyrighted material and yes it would be reason enough to cancel my account.
it is a abuse, no question.
but either no robot visited my files or he was blind on one eye.
no i received a "loyality bonus" πŸ˜‰ (everyone does after five years i guess)
fortunately microsoft has no idea how often i cursed them.

but anyway ms isn't that bad as i sometimes thought and said,
the customer support is good
and they offer many software in a useful state for free
guess of the free "visual c" and you're allowed to really use it
as long as it's a free product you made with it.

of course it's erm how it's called a "win win" situation.... caugh (again)
and they do have their profit of supporting open source.

a friend sended me a good article about what's the deal with open source.

i guess devs. like him just like to say it isn't bad to take money for software and if you develop open source
you are really a open source for the big companies.

just like a giant laboratory but none of the "alchemists" earns money with his work.

and big companies can start to reap if the saw has brought fruits πŸ˜‰

clever thought
one must say you better wouldn't.

i just wrote this because many may think open source is a sort of rebellion,
or they see themself maybe as a sort of pirates,
at least free in what sort ever,
but this idea can't stand a close analysis,
the summary of open source is that the ones you liked to fight
the big companies
are the real winners in the end

but that shouldn't keep us from developing a wrapper and whatever for this old game
neither i believe it should keep someone from developing pioneer or whatever game.

the argument is right
but i guess for many it's rather a matter of heart & soul as a matter of hardware.
you would do it anyway
and already to think about if rather i get fraudulated or not, p***** me off.

well if that works like hand-cream and helps them - then alright.

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Topic starter  

the files are uploaded

i created a new folder for the "updates january 2017",

[**updates j

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Posts: 522
Topic starter  

the files are uploaded

i created a new folder for the "updates january 2017",

[**updates january 2017**](!AhX1Ed1178sOhRqKZQcb4snWNKFo "!AhX1Ed1178sOhRqKZQcb4snWNKFo")

i hope it covers all
or most
the complete models folder i even updated
some changes like turning all of my buildings into flat shaded models i didn't respected for the "single files".

updated models are
the "radio station" proper rotated as mod to a common nr.370 office/commercial bld.
the "broccoli"
the "new" graveyard (with old clients)
the escape capsule incl. a animated lg
the statue resp. "small triangular obelisk" (even if there hasn't changed much to it)
the city quarter to overload "old blackelk" with buildings
the "standard" commercial bld for nr.370
the church, even here not much changed except to flat shade all
the Long Range Cruiser, in a cheap version just because if you installed wandours factory quarter
the LRC will look a little funny with the factories on it's back/belly
i recreated the original factories and simply put them on a recreated LRC
very basic very cheap but ok as a placeholder for a while.

broccoli πŸ™‚
![]( "")
and other vegetables

no model
but some music

recently a conversion of the original soundtrack by mike cook, they sound really nice (36MB).
and the old soundtracker modules plus "mike cook remix" in mp2 at 22kHz (394MB).

[**FFED3D MUSIC**](!AhX1Ed1178sOhRTWgj9bDdgq72SK "!AhX1Ed1178sOhRTWgj9bDdgq72SK")

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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 90

So I'm massively behind the curve with this thread... I've no chance answering everything before my brain implodes but here goes for tonight...

@Gernot66 I did take a look at your buildings patch for the church and fallen building at the default start location - the .exe is v1.10a so you are a build behind.
I did a diff to see what was changed - is it OK if I add this patch into the next build? (please let me know what name to credit with if you'd prefer Gernot/Potsmoke/66)

Also if you patch anything else - perhaps you could post a line of hex showing the change & location rather than a whole .exe if you are ok with me incorporating it into a new build? It'll be quicker for me to locate the change in the FFE data and if anyone wants to apply the change to JJFFE/GLFFE it'd let them find the relevant data too.

Anyway in the FFED3D new builds thread, you highlighted the issue with scaled submodels. And, yeah, to be honest I knew these were broken but suppressed most of them in the earlier versions of FFED3DAJ, forcing it to draw the original "primitives" models instead for things such as the large radar dishes at bases or space-stations. In the early days, I simply didn't know the assembly code well enough to find where the scaled models were called from, or where the scale value was to pass over to the C++ code.
But by v1.10 I had worked through the model-draw routines so that I could hide certain things, such as the "///" chevrons when I re-skinned and merged the original FFE docking bay doors/lift rooms with the .x model station and entrance areas. So I've now been able to work from that to expose the sub-model scale value from the draw command and use it in the C++ code of FFED3DAJ. So for example.the base model# 105 draws 2 large radar dishes (198), one with Scale(0x6000). It looks like only the upper word 0x60 is significant and I think that it's a multiplier - the upper byte 0x6 defines a multiplier of 2-to-the-power-x (in this case 2^6) with the lower byte an addition onto that. But it's yet to be thoroughly tested - however it certainly seems to give the correct sizes for the base #105 and station #86 πŸ˜€
BTW - just an observation as when my code was drawing both the the original FFE radar model and the original .x model, the original version was facing 180 degrees the wrong way.

I've also looked at the default start station with regards to the animation, and indeed #271 has hangar doors that open when Police ships are being launched - the animation is keyed off global variable #33.from 0 (closed) to 65536 (fully open). The hangar model #302 is the same and I've added animation support for it in the next build - the model is probably facing the wrong direction at the moment though!

I've created a dropbox area with the v1.11 patches to update with, a zip of my models folder (as I gather you are using an FFED3D beta 1.12 base) and I there is also a beta 1.12 patch to add after you've applied v1.11. I look forward to hearing how terrible the German translation was!

(oh -edit- there's an extra shader .fx file for the cargo containers that'll introduce a bit of extra colour - thought I'd added it to the example skins file, but obviously not oops!)

I saw that you've patched the pool model also, but I did find a solution to that in v1.11 using the tris.ini file. I've actually rotated it 110 degrees to get a better alignment and scaled it down slightly in length and height. Please could I ask that you either remove your patched version for the time being or tweak the rotation and include a tris.ini file to apply a similar scale (I'm thinking that they are meant to be private swimming pools, not massive reservoirs) or scale/rotate the model to match and include an empty tris.ini file or one with neutral values.

I also edited the scales in tris.ini on the ecm/radars as follows now that they can be scaled as submodels:
196: scale=0.1
198: remove scale=0.4 (radar dish is used on ships, and at bases scaled very large)

Oh I've also fixed a city sector model that has the Soccer stadium and copied its mirrored version to a new model number within the FFE data. This fixes a bunch of problems with windows on houses, and text on TV screens. We can probably do something similar if we need to change a city block so that it draws a building model instead of hard-coded boxes at a particular normal location.

That's it. brain out for tonight

Regarding Steve's comment about the flickering triangles/missing station - I'm not seeing that with the 2017 models but perhaps I've missed something else before. However ... I am seeing flickering lines around the 'box' that the church model is within, and have seen texturing flickers with the original version - not sure if it's related.
BTW - I think that you probably scaled the church to hide the "windows" of the original model - but you can also hide these vector shapes (and labels) with notdrawtext=1 in the tris.ini file.

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Posts: 90

No you won't Steve - they're changes to the FFE vector models - I've been fixing the data to solve certain problems. 409 is the football stadium and had problems with the placements of the TV screens. 360 is a special model that animates the last scene of the intro sequence (the Thargoid ship shooting the police Viper and the Quest) and 466 is essentially a copy of the data for a city block, but I've mirrored it in the data rather than let the game try to do it dynamically - as it obviously causes knock on problems when the child models it draws need to be rotated too. (They were issues in the original FFE)

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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 90

True, although the thread has already switched to buildings over ships!
Anyway main point of dropping the beta was to give Gernot the support for proper sub-model scaling - i.e. the ship equipment. Oh and it also fixes the obscured view when the new turret model is being used.
(Beta 2 is up to fix a naughty rendition bug when a Brown-dwarf is visible from within an "earth like" planet's sky)

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