Awesome news! Will look forward to updating ModDB with this build at the end of the month!

Hi! I'm freshly registered, so first I want to say a big thank you for this project! I've been trying it occasionally over the years, and it gets better every time. Keep up the good work!

Now to some feedback.

My system: 64-bit Linux (Gentoo), i3-2100 CPU, 8Gb RAM, NVIDIA GTS 450

The following issues I've noticed on different builds, starting with Oct-15, and all are still present in the latest.

1. Star map.

Star billboards on the map are displayed as squares when zoomed out (forum says "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community."):

http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=94806

2. Starports in Epsilon Eridani (previous builds only reported Itzalean and Epsilon Cove):

stack traceback:

    [C]: in function 'assert'

    [string "[T] @ui/StationView/CommodityMarket.lua"] in function <[string "[T] @ui/StationView/CommodityMarket.lua"]:274>


4. There are systems that export Radioactive Waste (Beta Hydri), and those that import it (in previous builds it was Liaabe near Beta Hydri), but the importing systems still required you to pay for it. I'll have to play the new build more to find such and see if it changed. Or is this by design?

	            

Hi StanPancakes!

Thanks for reporting!

1. Is not a bug actually, but a feature: #3323

2. I'll leave this to fluffyfreak, but I think it's basically due to inherent lack of feature in pioneer engine.

3. Now that's more serious. Basically, our cargo system is so confusing we ourselves tend to get lost, so I suspect the assert is not asserting what the author of it thought it did. We'll look into it.

4. I'm note sure. I'm open to suggestions here. I don't know what is the most "sane" or best behavior to have. Easy fix would be to not export or import radioactives. But then you have Sellafield on Earth that are importing it, and others naturally exporting to them.

• Question is: Is it wrong that a system can export or import radioactives?
• If A exports and B imports it, will I make a profit going from A -> B. Or since the price is inverted, would I be expected to go from B -> A?

Hi StanPancakes!

Thanks for reporting!

1. Is not a bug actually, but a feature: #3323

Ah, thanks! I have no idea why I didn't encounter it while googling. I saw that stars looked like little dots in Scout Plus youtube videos by gameinnovator. I guess it's older build.

4. I'm note sure. I'm open to suggestions here. I don't know what is the most "sane" or best behavior to have. Easy fix would be to not export or import radioactives. But then you have Sellafield on Earth that are importing it, and others naturally exporting to them.

• Question is: Is it wrong that a system can export or import radioactives?
• If A exports and B imports it, will I make a profit going from A -> B. Or since the price is inverted, would I be expected to go from B -> A?

I think I miscommunicated the problem. Thing is, in previous build (Oct-28), Beta Hydri had them as Major Export, and the price was -3.04. Liaabe though had them as Minor Import, but the price was -3.60 🙂 So I got 27.36 credits for buying them (9t), but paid 32.4 credits selling them.

I personally think that exporting/importing radioactives is a great idea, and you get paid in reverse (and you can always be nasty, simply buy a load and then dump it somewhere).

Perhaps the "negative" price isn't reversed properly? After all, 3.60 is more than 3.04, but not when they're negative.

I mean, if Major Export means there's too much of that ware in the system (in case of waste, pollution), then perhaps for radioactives it should mean that they pay you more for taking it off their hands (and, as a consequence, charge you more if you're trying to offload there). But when they're imported, then perhaps they should charge less, and thus pay you less if you try to buy?

But again, I'll need to do some flying in this new build to see if there's any change already in place.

I can't get it to run under Ubuntu 14.04. Nothing happens when I click on the icon. When I try to run it from the terminal I see this.

[attachment=3261:Screenshot from 2015-11-02 1517.png]

20150912 runs fine.

Oh, the 64-bit Linux download seems to be twice the size of the 32-bit one, and there's a folder "data" inside "data" containing similar (same?) files.

Also, here's an illustration of issue (2) from above ("underwater" star ports):

[attachment=3263:Screenshot from 2015-11-03 03-39-11.jpg]

Also also, (not an issue, I guess, just an observation), the eclipse at Epsilon Eridani mentioned in the wiki doesn't happen at 22:00 anymore. In fact, it happens at least two times in different parts of the planet. I won't spoil the times here, I'm sure commanders will find out soon enough 🙂

[attachment=3262:Screenshot from 2015-11-03 03-51-31.jpg]

Thanks for the tip StanPancakes and welcome!

I tried deleting the data/data folder but unfortunately got the same result. I'll download the 32 bit version and see if it wants me to install more libraries.

edit: I had another idea. I can restructure the folders and make the nested data folder the data folder. It probably won't work either, but worth a try. I'm going to bed soon. Tomorrow morning I'm going to make blueberry pancakes for breakfast. I just got a craving for some reason.

People with food names reminds me that I used to work at a company with Stan Celery and Ginger Sweet. Yes, that's their real names! OK, off-topic.

Oh, sorry Marcel, that was, uh, observation for fluffyfreak and impaktor, i.e. I didn't mean it as a solution for your problem.

In your case it seems that libstdc++ on your system is too old. I.e. it doesn't want "more" libraries, it needs an upgrade. 14.04 being an LTS release that would probably mean using some unofficial repository. Sorry I can't point you in the right direction, I haven't used Ubuntu for several years now 🙁

Thanks again, that's really informative. I've been using Ubuntu for a couple of years now and still am learning about libraries and repositories and stuff. Well, only when I have to. I'll research it. I usually find a site where I can copy and paste terminal code, watch it run and think "Hey, I'm a geek!"

@Marcel The build machine was upgraded to a newer version of gcc, so that's probably what's causing it. I'll ask rob about it, but an upgrade of your machine should fix it I think.

@StanPancakes regarding issue 2, I'm not sure I see anything strange in your screenshot? Isn't it just that pioneer moved the starbase to some other location, since the default location was not suitable due to terrain restrictions.

@StanPancakes & @Marcel the data/data is due to Tribbles in the build machine, rob saw it happening, but didn't have time to fix it. You can just remove the inner data folder, and save your hard drive the extra 200 MB space. Doesn't affect anything beyond that.

@StanPancakes Interesting regarding the Eclipse. So some parameter is free / not set (orbital phase?) in the EE system script.

The wiki might need some updating for anyone feeling up to it. For instance, tech levels for each equipment (see the link to the pull request in the top post), and the wrong data for the EE eclipse.

EDIT robn said he will sort out the build environment, to work on ubuntu, but not tonight. Thus, no need to upgrade your system, if you're patient.

Oh! I nearly forgot. I added a twitter feed to the ModDB site so any comments you make on there will also appear on ModDB and I am happy to report that, with regards to popularity, Pioneer has reached rank 190 out of 34806. Good going you devs!

Issue No. 2 is something I should have realised myself, we're changed the random number generator to one which should produce much better (more random, less repetition) results and so the planets themselves, and the placement of cities will have changed or need to change.

Boy that was stupid of me. Ok this is one for me to fix I guess.

Visited a few systems, did some trading, deliveries, completed various missions, even did some combat. Brought a couple of pictures (sorry, they only had one T-shirt and I'm keeping it). Didn't encounter any freezes or crashes, aside from the already mentioned cargo one.

[attachment=3264:Screenshot from 2015-11-03 21-23-04.png][attachment=3265:Screenshot from 2015-11-03 21-26-46.png]

Here's some feedback/questions:

1. After an OS update I'm running Gnome 3.16 now, and it seems they've introduced the "Program is not responding" dialog. It triggers while Pioneer is loading. In general it's not a problem (I can just click "Wait"), though as far as I understand it shows that Pioneer doesn't handle any events while it loads?

2. Facegen seems to generate more interesting (and less spooky) faces, or maybe I just got lucky?

3. Tech levels are great. Low-pay local deliveries make much more sense now, especially in new unexplored systems: you get to learn who sells what, and can earn several hundred credits in the process. Is there a tech level at which atmospheric shielding is not available? It could play a significant role in journey planning.

4. This is probably known, but here goes anyway: combat is... strange. Enemies seem to "lose" me if I first accelerate away, save, and reload (found out when I got killed after saving). Or, if a single enemy is waiting for me when I arrive into system, I just accelerate towards him. Apparently he starts running away? Or attempting to "intercept" me? But he doesn't do anything else, so I simply gain on him and blow him up. Although, to be honest, last one I blew up took a lot of shots with that 1MW cannon... There's no way I would've won if he actually fought back.

5. Repairs are expensive. A mission promising 1600 credits in reward may turn out to cost 5000 and more in repairs. On the other hand, save scumming sort of nullifies the danger, as per above.

6. Delta-v calculator in orbital view isn't helpful in planning (anit-)normal burns. It seems to only take into account the original normal, and thus greately protrudes the "resulting" orbit. Whereas if I perform a continuous burn with autopilot set to "hold (anti-)normal", I simply change the inclination, but I have to constantly check the orbital view to see if my new orbit is "good enough".

7. Is there a way to set a hotkey that directly switches the ship to Manual Control, without going to Set Speed first? When performing orbital maneuvers, I sometimes use the autopilot (e.g. "hold normal"), and even though it doesn't do any real harm, hearing engines turn on after pressing F5 is a little spooky.

8. Almost forgot. It'd be nice if starports first unloaded all mission wares before attempting to load new ones. For example, if I'm due to pick up 5t of cargo on station A, but arrive there short a couple tonnes of space, they will say "come back when you have space". But I might be carrying mission cargo to that station A at the same time. So they unload me, cargo hold frees up, but now I have to undock/dock (and pay the fees again!) only to be able to load those 5t.

There, I made a whole list of observations, but not all of them are "bad" and still after a few hours of gameplay, I can only say "awesome, I want more!" 🙂

@Marcel New build is out now, nothing new in it except it should work on (all?) Linux machines. Please give it a try.

@StanPancakes:

1.
Something in SDL vs. Unity I'm guessing? I have no clue.

2.
You might just have gotten used to "the horror" of face gen.

3.

Is there a tech level at which atmospheric shielding is not available?

Atmospheric shield is not available at stations with tech level 1-2. Next time we change the universe, I'd like to make these low-tech resupply/trade stations a bit more likely. Tech level 5-6 are the most common ones now.

4.
Is the "accelerate away" before save/load during combat needed to reproduce the issue? So it seems to you like he's not trying to kill you anymore? Maybe the AIKill(player) is forgotten when saved? I'm notoriously inexperienced when it comes to combat in Pioneer.

5.
I've never thought/heard about the balancing of repair prices before. We've been talking about having crew repair the ship. When repairing 5000 credits worth of damage how much damaged was your ship then? Like 50%? The alternative to repairing the hull is buying new stuff. That's not cheap either. You loose 20% of the value on selling equipment back to the equipment market.

6.
I think @nozmajner is far better to answer this.

7.
Not that I'm aware of. We were discussing making some significant (improved) key-mapping changes for the next interface yesterday at IRC. For instance, time acceleration in +1/-1 incremental step with pgup/pgdwn keys.

8. So this happens now? I'll see if I can poke the mission creator to have a look at it.

There, I made a whole list of observations, but not all of them are "bad" and still after a few hours of gameplay, I can only say "awesome, I want more!"

Yay!

1. The loading screen only updates the rendering when it increments the progress bar, so this causes long stalls and it looks like the game has crashed/hung.

Ideally loading would be done in a separate thread but unfortunately we need access to OpenGL when loading some things and that has to happen in the main thread.

Linux builds are now built against Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, so they should work fine on that and anything of similar vintage.

2. You might just have gotten used to "the horror" of face gen.

🙂

3.Next time we change the universe, I'd like to make these low-tech resupply/trade stations a bit more likely.

That's great! More common low-tech stations means you'll need to travel more in-system to find what you need, or at least take local travel time into consideration when taking a mission that requires more equipment. ("Do I go to that starport at the far end of the system for those missiles and risk failing the deadline, or do I rush in with just my cannon?..")
 

4. Is the "accelerate away" before save/load during combat needed to reproduce the issue? So it seems to you like he's not trying to kill you anymore? Maybe the AIKill(player) is forgotten when saved? I'm notoriously inexperienced when it comes to combat in Pioneer.

I'm not sure, I'll have to test by saving/loading having just arrived into welcoming party. What happened was I got greedy and took 3 document deliveries at the same time. Arriving into system, I saw six ships ganging up on me. Trying to fight there and then was no good, so after some attempts I just jumped in, turned into the direction of starport, and ran. My plan was to try picking them off one by one: I saw that most of them can't accelerate as fast as I could, and I was hoping they'll be reaching me one at a time once I shut off the engines. So anyway, once I got the "Alert Cancelled" for the last of them and lost their IDs in the rear view, I saved and started increasing TC. In a short while one of them caught up with me. I dispatched him, but almost immediately another one arrived and killed me. I reloaded, and again, one did catch up, I killed him and that was it. No word from the rest 5 enemies all the way to destination.
 

5. When repairing 5000 credits worth of damage how much damaged was your ship then? Like 50%?

5369 cr. for 33.1% hull 🙁 All done by a single enemy.
 

The alternative to repairing the hull is buying new stuff.

New stuff? I haven't even earned enough for an upgrade to military drive, let alone the whole ship! 🙂

7. We were discussing making some significant (improved) key-mapping changes for the next interface yesterday at IRC. For instance, time acceleration in +1/-1 incremental step with pgup/pgdwn keys.

Perhaps, if at all possible, you could add something like Ctrl+F5 for Manual Control to that improvement list?
 

8. So this happens now? I'll see if I can poke the mission creator to have a look at it.

Yes, if you arrive with not enough space they tell you "come back when you have space", even though at the same time another guy takes your cargo, and you now actually have space.
 

1. The loading screen only updates the rendering when it increments the progress bar, so this causes long stalls and it looks like the game has crashed/hung.
Ideally loading would be done in a separate thread but unfortunately we need access to OpenGL when loading some things and that has to happen in the main thread.

I see, not something easy to fix. As I said, it's really no big deal, but I thought I'd let you know in case others start reporting that their OS thinks Pioneer has frozen.

6. About the plane change.

I'm not that good in orbital mechanics sadly, so if anybody knows the reason better, don't hesitate to tell.  

My guess is that when you use the normal/antinormal autopilot, then the ship will rotate with your rotating normal direction as you thrust. So you actually put in the neccessary retrograde speed change too at the same time to cancel your speed in that direction.

While the planner doesn't put in that retro deltaV on it's own, so your orbital speed becomes  the geometric mean (or which average was it) of your prograde speed and the normal speed you set in the planner. Which results in an elongated orbit. In theory if you set the same retrograde speed as your normal/antinormal, it should show a proper planechange. But above escape velocity or about 90° plane change it doesn't seem to work that way either.

One other thing to keep in mind that the planner always assume that the change of speed is immediate, so it won't be exact, especially for high deltaV maneuvers, since you need time to change your speed.

And a helpful thing I found for orbital maneuvers. If you don't use Set Speed mode, then if you hold your fwd thruster key, and press F2 for the map, then it won't stop thrusting until you go back to the cockpit view, so you can observ your orbit while it changes.

In theory if you set the same retrograde speed as your normal/antinormal, it should show a proper planechange.

Oh hey, it works indeed! Only not "same" but "some", depending on the desired inclination. Why didn't I think of that?..
 

One other thing to keep in mind that the planner always assume that the change of speed is immediate.

Yeah, I simply estimate how much time I'll need to accumulate that delta-v (thankfully, ship info displays acceleration) and start the manuever at half that time before the "planned" time. After all, "good enough" is indeed good enough in Pioneer.

And a helpful thing I found for orbital maneuvers. If you don't use Set Speed mode, then if you hold your fwd thruster key, and press F2 for the map, then it won't stop thrusting until you go back to the cockpit view, so you can observ your orbit while it changes.

Oh that's nice, I didn't know you could do that. I just kept repeating the accelerate-look-accelerate-look dance.

Just tried all of the above techniques: started at Earth, got into low orbit, aligned with Gates at our orbits intersection (using both normal/retrograde buttons in the planner), estimated prograde burn to transfer to Gates, and arrived around 20:00 on the 2nd of January. Only a small correction was required when I was getting close, and thanks to the powerful engines and cockpit vector display, this is easily done manually. Great stuff, thanks!

@StanPancakes I've made a fix for the CargoRun mission, I have not tested it, perhaps you could? Just use it and make sure nothing crashes.

#3510 or for full file here. (Drop it in your data/modules/CargoRun/ folder to replace the one file already there.)

I've just tried, and it's still the same 🙁

Also just noticed during the test, the guy who gives the mission "Go there, bring back N tonnes of X" also says "you don't have enough space" if I currently don't have enough space. I.e. he doesn't allow me to take the mission, even though the actual load is at another station. Does he expect me to fly empty? "Flying empty is a waste of space!" (c)

Here's a savefile with the missions already taken (restarted the game a few times for them to appear): deliver 6t to Epsilon Cove, bring back 5t. When I land at Epsilon Cove, they still say "Please come back when you have enough space".

I've just tried, and it's still the same

Doh! I did the exact opposite! So now it always first tries to load before unloading. I blame that I did it late in the evening. I'll fix it tomorrow, and PM you when it's done. Thanks for testing.

Thank you, impaktor, I'll be glad to test more!

Meanwhile, found something strange:

[attachment=3272:Screenshot from 2015-11-05 01-32-01.png]

Identical "warehouses". And the "Crew for hire" shows the same two people. Here's a save.

@robn

20151104-linux64 doesn't work for me either. It gives the same results. I wonder if an LTS user should have to update libraries. Do the new features in Pioneer require the updated libraries? If so, there should be a tutorial file included on how to do that.

I think I just volunteered myself!