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Gfamad
(@gfamad)
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Those days, I'm trying to discover good SpaceSims. So I spend time on Evrochon, Miner Wars, X3 TC and recently I dig up Pioneer.

I remember many years ago when I played Elite 2 on my Amiga 2000. I was impressed by the size of the universe fitting on a single floppy disk. Of course, it was all procedural, but it was the first (and last ?) rendering method using spline and sphere instead of polygon. David Braben did a great job !

Nowadays, and don't know why, SpaceSims are not very present on the scene. As a commercial, except the recent (and good) X3, no serious candidate in sight. And X3 has no seamless universe... Evrochon has but planets are tiny.

Of course, and I think each members of this forum know, there is Infinity Universe, but I think it's a near dead project (Zombie ?) and not even an alpha can be try after 7 years of development.

And I discovered at last Pioneer. Very close to Elite, it is very very impressive. Planets are the real size, orbits are present, lightning is good, and in this project we can feel the passion of SpaceSims coming from the devs...

So, I would like to congratulate you Devs. You are doing a GREAT job because what you are doing right now is unique. There is no other game like this. For example I like Miner Wars, but it's not the same kind of game.

If the game continue to evolve (and I really hope !), you could ever think to sell it instead of "Donate". Maybe the Minercraft model could work for Pioneer.

I don't know if this project will one day become "finished" but, one thing is sure IMHO: It as the potentiel to be THE game that can make Elite fan dream again.

So again, congratulation for your work and hope to see Pioneer evolving again and again

Gfamad


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Zephyros
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Yeah they Really deserve some credit

Using the minecraft model to pay is good as is not too costly but since this is fan made and this is a almost dead genre probably they feel is not the right thing to do.


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Brianetta
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Pioneer is free software. The "Minecraft model" is out of the question. The GNU General Public License grants you more rights than that already, and those rights can't be taken from you. Embrace that; we're driven by the desire to create, not the desire to cash in.

The GPL allows you to sell Pioneer if you want. Anybody can do that, as long as they adhere to the terms of the license. It isn't easy to sell free software, though. The seller would need to provide some additional value, like a decent printed manual, or round the clock telephone support.

Pioneer itself is free, by which I mean uncaged. The basic restriction on its use is that it must not be placed into a cage.


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robn
 robn
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Thanks for the kind words. Warm fuzzies are a big part of the reason we hang around. The rest is just us scratching our own itches - we loved Frontier and want to keep playing it forever!

As for "payment", good feelings, job satisfaction and a line for the résumé is more than enough. Money isn't everything and you couldn't afford us anyway 😉


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Bugbear
(@bugbear)
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I would be extremely concerned about legal action and takedown notices if someone begins selling Pioneer for any kind of profit.

I'm sure a certain Mr Braben would be quite interested, given the fact that this is a reboot of his original work in Frontier.

For the moment, I would be certain that he is aware of this project, but has chosen to do nothing. I think the safest course of action is to not kick the sleeping lion...


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robn
 robn
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We've been over this at length and done a lot of investigation. We're as confident as we can be that be that Pioneer is not in any way encumbered by IP from Frontier or anything else. Of course in this crazy legal mess we live in anyone can dream up an injustice for pretty much anything so we can never be truly safe, but we've done all we can.


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Brianetta
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Unfortunately, its a lion which the GPL allows anybody to kick. We can't stop them.

Pioneer shares no code with Frontier. Pioneer uses none of Frontier's trademarks. Frontier has no patented algorithms (where such things are valid). As Rob says, there's a chance that some claim could be made, but that chance is very slim indeed, and would be on shaky ground. Then again, sometimes these things revolve around how much you can pay your legal counsel, and there's almost nothing to protect anybody from a rich man with lawyers and a grudge, no matter how innocent.

As far as I'm aware, Frontier Developments don't harbour any grudges (and yes, they're aware of Pioneer).


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UncleBob
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Quote:
As Rob says, there's a chance that some claim could be made, but that chance is very slim indeed, and would be on shaky ground.

The only thing they could possibly do is that all models based on their originals and any names associated with Frontier be removed, at least from the distribution package (in case someone mods them in, that's no concern of the developers...). So the worst thing that could happen would be that Pioneer has to get itself its own background story and own models. But Braben has been more than forgiving with what happened to his masterpiece, really. People reverse-engineered the thing, which is about the most criminal activity you can engage in when it comes to code (legally speaking. Not saying Jordan is a criminal mind), and he let it pass, so it would be rather astonishing if he'd try to take down a clone written from scratch.


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Brianetta
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UncleBob wrote:
The only thing they could possibly do is that all models based on their originals and any names associated with Frontier be removed

The models are an open question, but the names are safe. They are generic names of animals, on the whole, and are not registered trademarks. Even if they were once trademarks, they haven't been defended - and if you don't defend your trademarks, you lose them. Aspirin was an undefended trademark, to give you an example.


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Gfamad
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Thanks for your replies !

In fact, the question of "making money" was just a way to say "what you are doing is very good". I am the first to believe that money is not everything, and I'm totally agree with you. But when a dev makes money with his game, it can be his main job, and his passion can then bring foods in his plate ! That's not a bad thing !

But as you said, there are protection with open source project and that's a good thing

Anyway, what you are doing is great, and that's my last word ... for this topic 😉


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ollobrain
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the game has advanced in some aspects above and beyond what hte original was and it was written from stractch adding colonies, and other elements and even more missions ship types and taking bits and pieces from other games will make it more unique


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Brianetta
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Always with the colonies. Your blind hope amuses me. (-:


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