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game mode idea: scientific exploration

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s2odan
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But then Pioneer would weigh 12GB and it would take a minute to load into the galaxy view.

Thats where Solid state disk drives come in 😈 And systems with >12GB Ram 😈 😈

We'll start the Poor Pioneer Players Fund PPPF so that we can all get a system with them in.

But you mentioned Noctis, and that does it without any problems I suppose.


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Marcel
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I think Noctis used a simple text file. You would download/upload outside the game when you felt like it. The hard part is probably making a reader/encoder to update one's local database. You'd have to ignore the dates of news about players because everyone's game is on their local date, but it could be a nice way to share.


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UncleBob
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Thanks a lot for your well informed answer.

That little app you linked too will be useful in ensuring the correct temperatures are given to the various star classes.

For temperature ranges of spectral classes, you best look them up somewhere. No point in guessing them out of the diagram.

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Would the app only apply to V-main sequence stars though? As Class MIII and greater - red giants - would obviously have a much higher temperature when compared with other stars of their colour. I suppose I need to learn a lot more about the laws invloved if I hope to add accurate star classes.

The point of black body radiation is that color is totally depending on the temperature. Hot steel glows red because it's in the right temperature range, and for that everything in the right temperature range glows red. You could make steel glow blue if it wouldn't turn to gaseous vapor before reaching that temperature.

So no, a star with the same spectrum will always have the same SURFACEtemperature. an M5III and an M5V are equally hot on the surface. Just that a M5III is a lot larger in radius, i.e. it has a much larger surface area that has to be heated. So although the star gives of a lt more energy, the surface is still at the same temperature, because there's much more of it to heat. There's also much more of it to radiate that heat away, of course, resulting in a much higher luminosity than an M5V.

The classification in pioneer seems pretty accurate, by the way.


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s2odan
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The point of black body radiation is that color is totally depending on the temperature.

Gotcha Mother's Brother's Bob 😉 Slowly re-remembering all this from school A-level physics. 😆

I think my problem with all this stemmed from the fact that wikipedia has some conflicting information about stars throughout its pages.

I also wasn't taking into consideration the tenths between classes that a given star was on wiki.

IE temp for M7V > MV, So was a little confused by stars being listed as hotter than they were allowed to be 🙂 Such as MIII Red giants in the 4500 - 5000K range even though it states that the maximum temperature is 3500K.


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UncleBob
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MV as such does not exist, or is very genrally defined. in case you mean M0V, that would actually be hooter (and heavier and larger) than an M7V. The counting goes downward.


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s2odan
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I did mean an M0V so it looks like I had those back to front.


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ollobrain
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atmospheric flight could have additional specific missions ie fly to planet a enter atmosphere and mine specific compounds and return to trade station b for 200% over normal prices as such compounds are in short supply


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KingHaggis
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What I understand about scientific exploration game mode or missions is using the oldies good ideas like Starflight.

Go Planet, Scan Planet surface, photograph planet, analyze planet, and make useful the great procedural generator not only to go bases but to flight and search for minerals or ruins etc..., the atmospherical flight would be neccesary to make the missions.

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atmospheric flight could have additional specific missions ie fly to planet a enter atmosphere and mine specific compounds and return to trade station b for 200% over normal prices as such compounds are in short supply

Yeah, besides driving around on a planet, build miningstations and deploying turrets, the above ideas have always ranked high in my personal wishlist. It would be the ultimate spacesim. Gameplay and exploration galore! 😀


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NewtonianFreak
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Even a very basic exploration system would do for me :

- systems too far from sol (lets place the frontier at 1000 light years) are not known.

- the game keeps a list of the system you've been to.

- When you enter an "unexplored" system, there is a short sequence where the computer is supposed to scan the planets and give you a report of all the bodies in the system. (with 33rd century scanners, you would not need to go very close to gather sufficient datas...). Possibly only works if you have a special equipment.

- From then on you can look up this system in your galactic map.

- To keep things simple, let's say there's a GMC (galactic mapping conference) in Sol, or elsewhere in the core. You need to get back there to get a reward : each type of space body would have a determined reward.

- You have very small chances to meet another ship in unexplored systems. And when you do they are likeky to be of the explorer type.

- To emulate competition between explorers, say that the longer you wait to get back to the gmc after visiting a system, the more risks you have to not get the reward because someone else brough the datas before you.

- To give the impression of a living galaxy, you can :

-simply increase the range of the frontier by a few light-years every year.

- Make rewards for each type vary a bit from time to time (corporations are interrested in different things because tech changes, or because of politics).


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highlander
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How about exploration missions on the bulletin boards? You see an advert:

"WANTED: Pilot and ship required for exploration mission to the Betelgeuse system"

You click on it and they say "Hi, I'm Karl Hooper; my colleagues and I would like to be the first to explore the Betelgeuse system, and we are looking for a pilot to carry us and our equipment there and back."

You ask "How many of you are there?" and they say "There are 6 of us, plus our equipment will occupy 8 tonnes of cargo space in your hold".

You ask "Will there be any problems?" and they say "We know of another team who want to explore the system first; they may give you some trouble" or "We know of another team who want to explore the system first; they are leaving in 3 days' time, we want to beat them to it"

The mission is completed when you travel to the system, land on any planets they want you to land on (if there are any in the system that a ship can land on), and travel back to their point of origin.

Rewards are chiefly financial, but how about a medal/achievement system that covers exploration? "Explorer's Badge" when you explore your first system, "Bronze Medal for Exploration" when you explore 10, "Silver Medal for Exploration" when you explore 25, "Gold Medal for Exploration" when you explore 50, and "Legendary Explorer's Medal" when you explore 100 brand new systems?

Risks include rival teams, eco-warriors ("Friends of the Galaxy" out to stop the destructive spread of mankind), or even the accidental discovery of secret military bases in "unexplored" systems (low risk, reducing further over greater distance from the core systems).

Also, how about a "fame" / "infamy" reputation system would be good too, where you can be known as a legendary space adventurer at one end, or a dreaded murdering space pirate at the other. This can be independent of the Elite ranking system, as completing missions, earning lots of money, exploring systems, and mining huge amounts of precious metals could all contribute towards your reputation every bit as much as space combat could. Having a good reputation in Frontier already gives you the chance of getting a good response to "I want more money"; expanding on that would be good - pirates could run away from you when they get close enough to see who you are, or you may find if you are a pirate, you might find your victims offer surrender more quickly if you're infamous enough.


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ollobrain
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give the player the ability to drop their own colonies and be responsible for their well being by providing materials to grow and have them dynamiclay expand the amount of setttle ments in a system by the players actions ( player owned colonies could also setup missions that would impact neraby settlements, pirate levels, supply routes etc)

This could be after scienctific exploration and exploring outer rim planets ( as the game time goes along the game world should expand as well)


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UncleBob
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give the player the ability to drop their own colonies and be responsible for their well being by providing materials to grow and have them dynamiclay expand the amount of setttle ments in a system by the players actions

Which is the point where the feature becomes unrealistic in terms of implementation. You'll need a whole team (or at least one dedicated coder that does nothing else) just to realise something like this feature satisfactorily. You're basically creating a game within a game.


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mathee
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UncleBob wrote:
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give the player the ability to drop their own colonies and be responsible for their well being by providing materials to grow and have them dynamiclay expand the amount of setttle ments in a system by the players actions

Which is the point where the feature becomes unrealistic in terms of implementation. You'll need a whole team (or at least one dedicated coder that does nothing else) just to realise something like this feature satisfactorily. You're basically creating a game within a game.

Agreeing on that. I think the first move should be as i basically said in my first post here: unknown systems get known with their number of objects as soon as you get there. Detailed info on these objects you get as soon as you get into low orbit (gas giants) or land on them ("normal planets"). I think think that would be a reasonable first step here. From that point on it shouldn't be too difficult to implement missions of all kind (getting there and back fast, take some dudes there and back, explore a system completely and so on and so on - but this is definitely not priority on the agenda)


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ollobrain
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Following on from mathee this is for sure a longer term plan, entering a system going into low orbit gathering a broad based reading, topographical study- mining study etc. Then being able to bring back a satelite etc.

The guys working on it have said the lua system is pretty flexible and i know from reading the work on the mars simulationm project that the lua system with the c++ coding can handle it quite easily for complex on surface simulations it would be a program wtihin a program but if enough programmers could be found it could be done over time.


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UncleBob
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but if enough programmers could be found it could be done over time.

That's the two essential factors you just listed: manpower and time. No matter ywhat your coding project, you only need these two (if you have to pay for the manpower, you need money additionally). The more manpower, the fewer time. Pioneer is currently actively developed by two or three people (code-wise) with only one doing the really gritty core-work, as far as I saw, and they'll need (educated guess) about one more year to make it from the current Alpha to a feature-complete Pioneer 1.0 if they continue at the current (pretty fast) pace.

To implement the feature as you suggested satisfactorily, It'll take one or two coders about another half to a full year, and they'll do nothing else than this feature. If one feature consumes a significant time of the whole developement process, that's what we call unrealistic. Not impossible. Indeed, if you start learning C++ now, you can comfortably get to a good enough level within the year we'll still be waiting for the Pioneer 1.0 to start doing that feature yourself. With limited expierience it will probably take you about two years to implement it completely. The question is, of course, if it's worth that much to you. It's not impossible, just... unrealistic 😉


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ollobrain
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Unrealistic yes , im more helpful probably in the economic and ideas sense. Ok enough long term thinking.

Another thread has someone developing an idea for a landing craft ( could be expanded to include a colony module) or first up just remote mining and gas mining craft u drop off somewhere its location is saved and u can go back and collect materials as u travel around


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