I like the colored text idea. It should work as long as there aren't more than 6 factions (ROYGBV). I was thinking that Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon would be a good name for one of them too. <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//crazy.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crazy:' />

Colouring stars based on their allegiance and whether they're within hyperspace range seems to be the most popular one so far <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Answer very, very short:

'We, the faithful Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon, we have in -our- maps, to sun, marked in red'.

perhaps (and just as an idea to add to the mix) have a small icon at the end of the star system name, i suggest this because some star systems may be under the control of a faction/empire yet uninhabited

the size of the icon next to the name could also give the player some idea of the level of control that faction has over the system, so a small icon could mean that its a border system that has very low security with less space cops and more black market opportunity's while a large icon would mean you have more chance of being setup when trying to buy those illegal goods and a higher chance of being denied landing until the sector patrol has had a chance to scan your cargo

#1197 made some moves in this direction. They're not shown here but I remember at the time we had some mockups that used small chevron icons next to the name to show trade information. I think this is probably a good way to go.

I think that the System Info screen looked good but couldn't see the point of the "(i,e)" appended to the end of system names in the Sector View since they were already highlighted if they were inhabited meaning that they would of course have some imports & exports by that very virtue.

Of more use would be knowing what kind worlds they had, tourism, agricultural, industrial etc.

Either way I'm not thinking of adding it to the current work, there's plenty as it is! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

@Fish

Yes I considered that too but it starts to get very cluttered, also just because a system is within the volume associated with a particular faction doesn't mean that it's actually under their control. CustomSystems should still have a different allegiance if they're setup to have one and uninhabited systems might logically be under a certain faction but if no-one builds an outpost there then they should be fair game I think.

iirc it showed multiple i/e (or maybe i++ or something) based on the quality or strength of that system for that particular function. We found it a bit fiddly which is part of why it didn't go in. Icons were generally agreed to be the better options (one, two or three up/down chevrons, and damn I wish I could find the mockups).

All from kko.

(check IRC log for April 18th)

My logs are a mess due to repeated server moves and new computers. Thanks!

I'm testing #1505 and I think a step in the right direction.

The good thing is that the colors are configurable in lua, and the Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon may change, the sun system, by the color red.

Now we need to know (in lua) what faction to belong ship. Thus we can define different "labels" of faction.

Have a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_registration

Some ideas:

Federation: FX-1234

Empire: EX-1234

Red: RX-1234

And finally:

Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon: Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon-1234 (these people are very strange)

Cheers Walterar, that's really all I wanted it to be - a step in the right direction - nothing more.

There's load of things that can be done with just a few tweaks, for example the current system has fixed sizes but once we get a small bug fixed the volumes that each Faction occupies should naturally expand over time as you play the game. Systems on the edge of a factions space might already be inhabited but could be swallowed up over time and trades routes subsequently change with a "date joined faction" appearing in their description with that date being just months before your visit etc.

Exciting simple changes and additions when we get them working <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

also there's this <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Meka-leka-hi, meka-hiney-ho to you,

This sound's like ollobrain's dream come true!

Hi, I'm new here... sorry to just bud in with what may be a wild deviation in topic but I have an idea that might be quite helpful to this aspect of gameplay.

There's a pen&paper RPG about humanity within the solar system after getting thrashed by military AIs called Eclipse Phase. Even if you aren't a fan of RPGs in general the setting is fascinating and well worth the trouble of a free download!! Though I do hear the books are quite nice and if you are a role player then you know that you cant beat hardcopy for gaming! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

http://eclipsephase.com/

It's creative commons for non-commercial use and although the setting is quite a bit smaller than a Galaxy it is still an entire Solar System and a fairly crowded one in certain places! It handles a variety of factions and even different economic models in an interesting and innovative fashion with a fairly detailed description and examination of how things would develop in a truly "space age" society.

When it comes to factions and general NPC interaction it might make sense to scale things back a bit in the game, down to just one or maybe a handful of stars. Eclipse phase has mysterious "wormholes" connected to a couple distant stars so you could retain some interstellar gameplay while keeping most of it "confined" within a single solar system.

Other than that, thanks for the amazing work so far! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Instead of implementing Eclipse Phase, although it does look pretty cool, think about what you'd like to see in Pioneer.

What technology, what factions, what abilities, what missions/jobs/societies etc.

Then we can start to discuss what can be implemented straight away with some scripting, what needs coder input, what features would need adding to support thing etc.

in general though welcome to Pioneer, new input and ideas are welcome <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Thanks, glad to be here!

I don't want to just adapt EP into the game, but I figured rather than a HUGE post with ideas scattered everywhere it would make a decent "baseline" for a few more Pioneer specific ideas I've got... along with just generally being a cool looking sci-fi game itself! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

As far as Factions go I think that a matrix of factors should be set up... like the "left, center and right" that modern political parties are lumped into.

It would allow more detailed data sets to be generated procedurally for any given system / planet /region, along with intermixing between "factions". Things would be a lot more organic than simply defining a few major polities. You could have a list of options like D&D race/class mixes and just "roll up" new defitions for a given NPC. The different options would affect different aspects of the final models.

Off the top of my head I figure...

Races would define the mesh used. Different character pics, ships, stations and cities would have different styles depending on the race that built them. Options include...

Uplift (squid, apes, birds, whales...)

Human

AI

Political affiliation would determine the colour palette used for some of the textures (trim maybe?) with as many options as you want...

Cooperative (Anonymous in space!!) White? Purple? Infrared? <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Republic (Modern western style democracy) Red?

Empire (Hereditary aristocracy with an assinated Emperor every few months!) Blue?

There are plenty more options to use I'm sure...

Each Polity could have it's own money... with exchange rates determined by the different polities relationships with each other (like, neutral, hate?) and the "loyalty" of the specific NPC involved.

You could end up dealing with a shifty Parrot Nobleman trying to rob a Human Coop farming planet's fresh fruit and veg... or help a Robotic Mail Service deliver water to The Grand Chimp Noodles VIII's mining outpost depending on how the dice rolls! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Yeah that sounds really cool. I'll check back in a decade or so! Think thats pretty spot on, Imperial/Lefty/Fascists etc. Just keep it simple though! and Leave the silly names out. I've never been keen on joining a faction called the Versploovian Empire or the Krixplaverdong army! But obviously the Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon would have to play a major role.

Heh, yeah... I kinda just assumed that the "Republic" would have some bland commitee selected name like "The Terran Republic" or something, the Coops would all have either generic names, no names or whimsica hippyl names... and of course nobles LOVE elaborate titles... but hate that other nobles have so many... so I figured each petty little warlord would have an elaborate string of titles and ranks to make them sound like the most important person in the room <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Mostly I just think that a kind of race/class setup along similar lines to a lot of RPGs would make more sense than defining a couple monolithic political entities. The specifics I mentioned are pretty generic across differnt settings and genres, though.

Just thought I'd link to this as well, it may have been brought up before but it's a shared sci-fi worldbuilding group developing a far future "realistic" Space Opera setting. There are lots of elements that fit very nicely with Pioneer and some that don't... there is a TONNE of weirdness on the site, but also some very cool stuff, so be warned <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

http://www.orionsarm.com

There's a big writeup at the beginning of this thread i think and that's got the basics (empire, corp etc) and there's a lot of it! The codey chaps problem are the practicalities! I think the problem is that pioneer is open to so many options the way the game is. You could have corporations, 'nations', dictators, AI, *ahem* Aliens, all sorts of factions. If it was up to me I'd make all the factions corporations from sci fi films and have done with it. I'd work for Lunar Industries or Weyland any day!

There's an empire like that in Orions Arm! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

It's probably all cosmetic anyways... but I figure that every ship, station and city would be treated as it's own distinct faction... with a set of attributes generated along whatever set of species/economy/ideology lines. By doing it procedurally you can define systems that are wholly populated by factions with similar attributes, and do "disputed" systems by setting a few values in the system / planet / moon description

You could have vast stretches of "Republican" Space with disputed systems along the frontiers of the "Free Zone" and "Empire"...

The Frontiers are where things are most dangerous... and profitable! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I'll reply more to this stuff when the Factions branch has actually been reviewed and merged in <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Then we can start to get your guys up to speed on how to setup your own factions, figure out what's missing, what needs adding to make scripting work with it etc.

"[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]I'll reply more to this stuff when the Factions branch has actually been reviewed and merged in"[/background]

I have no doubt that this is a good thing, with a long way to go and much to discuss. Mainly in the "political expansion simulator" of the factions.

There are many things to discuss later, but regarding the visual look of the "star map", in issue #1505, I think it will be difficult to find a value of "default brightness" of the labels, work with all graphics cards. This can become a problem.

It's a combination of things, I want the systems that are inhabited to use the factions colour, but it needs to be muted when out of range. For some colours this works well, ones that are RED or GREEN but for blue factions it becomes hard to read very quickly. I think that the values I've picked now should be ok for the time being. We might just need to avoid pure blue faction colours.

"[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]I want the systems that are inhabited to use the factions colour"[/background]

That can set the player, the old light blue works. <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]" but it needs to be muted when out of range."[/background]

I'm not so sure about this. Considers that the "star map" is a tool that tells us how much fuel we will need to reach the destination. It must be perfectly legible "before."

Remember uninhabited systems serve as "bridges jumps".

This may be necessary also: Color labelColor(0.8f,0.8f,0.8f,0.50f); // Color labelColor(0.8f,0.8f,0.8f,0.25f);