i have added a new page to the wiki showing how to deal with some of the differences when using 3ds max and the new model system

http://pioneerwiki.com/wiki/3DS_Max

vuzz, somehow i guess such is in range of possibilities, it only has to be made, maybe not exactly the point...

however, in someway it is, because also i can't foresee what will be possible and what not, i guess that's what worries me most.

but i didn't like to stand in the rain, so i mess with this stuff, if i like it or not...

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but hmm..., some really basic stuff is missing, i guess,

and converting the models to the actual way is crippling them and picking up the work again later on?

that's why i took this simple UFO, hoping it would be "easy", well it is so far, perhaps to easy (simple)?

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looks like i can only animate the landing gear?

is that right?

at least nothing else is working...

well if would have been sure about that, i would have saved me a lot of work actually...

but hmm..., some really basic stuff is missing, i guess,

I was crystal clear about this point in the original post. I don't understand while you're still going on about it.

im wondering is there a way to 'ping-pong' or 'loop' animations yet or is this something still to come?

@potsmoke66 & @Vuzz

What are you two complaining about?!?

"We don't like this system", "we didn't ask you to change it", "it's missing some basic features": Yes actually, the first post in this thread said as much because it's a NEW feature, and it's a very large and complicated one.

LMR was a dead end, impossible to support or extend, it's prevented a lot of artists contributing to Pioneer over the years, and despite what you two are posting it has even more limitations than this system. LMR was always going to be gutted, if Luomu hadn't done it then I would have!

The only thing wrong with this system is that it's *NEW* and already we've got one new ship plus one that Luomu added.

You can have exactly the same animations as LMR, and more, but some of it is work-in-progress because it's *NEW*. Currently it think it's only animating the landing gear because that's all that's exposed. If you want an idle (i.e. looping) animation then that shouldn't be a problem.

Part of asking you guys to take a look at it is so that we can find what issues there are and then implement/fix them.

This is progression, sometimes you have to help.

somehow i understand,

somehow i think, well it's known what one (crazy like me?) likes to get working on a model.

i accept that, it's work to do...

on the other hand is it really so hard? or more a unwill to do it?

somehow a bit "poor", i thought at least some would be possible, but now it looks like i have to wait with most, because you will also understand that it didn't makes much sense to me to convert my existing models to the new system if i have to pick them up again (and again) and change them because something has implemented to the engine.

but somehow, hmm, somehow i feel that is quite fine for some (that we won't see most of my models in future) and perhaps even this makes me also a little angry...

apart from all that, no lie, what i see ahead are models with prob. more animation channels (needed and you knew/know it), perhaps a few things like guns to attach. but i guess that's it, i know what's "disliked" most at my models...

in other words i can take my models and trash them, that's the fact and some are for sure quite happy about that i guess.

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something else, collada exists in different versions, which is supported?

im wondering is there a way to 'ping-pong' or 'loop' animations yet or is this something still to come?

That would be great for a big rotating part 🙂

going by this http://assimp.sourceforge.net/main_features_formats.html as long as you export it to a .DAE it should be fine

@fluffyfreak @robn @potsmoke66 @Vuzz @Marcel

"You can have exactly the same animations as LMR, and more,... "

Then, that both systems exist at until this is certain.

They do both exist. This is a temporary situation, so that we can continue to use the old models until we have enough new ones. There's no point starting work on a new LMR model, because the system is deprecated.

The "tools" analogy is hilarious. In LMR we have a tool that maybe three or four people can use. We've had more than that many modellers walk away from Pioneer rather than learn that tool. If you spend time learning LMR modelling, you have spent time learning to use a tool which cannot be used anywhere else. It's a non-transferable skill, and now it's also an obsolete skill.

@Brianetta

"They do both exist. This is a temporary situation, so that we can continue to use the old models until we have enough new ones."

The decision is made. Learn how to use it, give useful feedback, help us make it awesome. Or, fork Pioneer and maintain LMR yourself. Either way, stop talking about it.

"...stop talking about it."

I fear that with your attitude, it will not be possible.

LMR is awful. It's difficult to learn. It's a barrier to new contributors. It isn't easy for the developers to work with.

There are several brilliant models in Pioneer that were made using LMR. Thing is, they are brilliant despite being made using LMR, not because of it.

"LMR is awful. It's difficult to learn. It's a barrier to new contributors. It isn't easy for the developers to work with."

Then it must be replaced by something better, without hurting anyone.

"There are several brilliant models in Pioneer that were made using LMR. Thing is, they are brilliant despite being made using LMR, not because of it."

So far I see nothing that surpasses it. When I see him, will give the reason, and make a feast in honor of Luomu.

That would be great for a big rotating part 🙂

yea and huge pistons on the side of a ship

"...stop talking about it."

 

0_0 already shocking by this sort of despote who's think he can say to others what they can talk about on a forum !

 

robn , personally i've really stop to talking about this new concept here, i'm just take a seat and waiting after the fantastic new models create by the new "artists" who join in mass the project Pioneer since this new system of modeling is integrated ...

 

but the future extinction of the LMR in pioneer mean also that the "several brilliant models" disappear if its impossible to make transition on another system , so excuse me but , i 'll continue to talking about this real problem (on another topic).

 

end of discution (hoppe you are satisfy robn), and good luck to the "artists" .

Well he did ask you, and gernot, several times to start a new topic to discuss it. That's not being a despot that's being reasonable for a while and then getting fed up.

Also those "several brilliant models" won't disappear because robn, who you jsut called a despot, wrote an obj file exporter for the modelviewer so that they can be saved out and brought over to the new system. So nothing lost, new things gained. It certainly isn't "impossible to make transitions", so far you've hit two minor issues which are both known about and temporary, and you don't seem to have tried the exporter which was mentioned in the first post.

andy

As Robn stated in the OP this thread about the new model system.

Any member who is unhappy about the change should start their own thread.

There will be a fix for this landing in the next few days (hopefully). We'll be creating the collision mesh with gear down instead of gear up.

Longer term, we need to be able to refresh a collision mesh for animated parts. Its on the list of stuff that has to be done before LMR goes.

sounds good, you know i'm longing fort such since "attila crossed the alps".

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yep fluffyfreak, actually the situation is this,

i can level the ships proper when they dock with the new models, this i noticed, only the finally docked ship will sink in to the lowest y of the body.

or stands to high in case for LMR, it depends also on the collision mesh you use.

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somehow i guess it will workout fine,

even if i still can't get warm with .dae...

but it works, that's what counts.

i.e. the "enormous" filesize you get with a final model is a bit, let's say "unhandy".

of course plays no big role and zipped as a mod it's small as before.

i will be off for a week, just if someone is missing me...

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i noticed a update to the pioneer branches, anything of interest?

i will see, i guess i won't use it on  the mac, times to tight, but i will see what has changed at home.

Here are a few things i would like in the new model system.

these are just ideas and i know the model system is not ready so please don't think im pushing for anything.

onFire animation that's called when shooting.

onHyperDrive animation thats called when the player starts a hyper jump.

colored lights like navlight_green navlight_red and so on.(perhaps they could be navlight_1 and then the color for navlight_1 could be defined in the .model file using something like light1 = RGB or hex or something )

colored thrusters similar to the navlights.

again these are just some ideas but i will stop now as im rambling on a bit

these are just ideas and i know the model system is not ready so please don't think im pushing for anything.

That's fine. We need artists to tell us what's missing, because although some missing features are obvious, some are not.

John B

Just seeing Fish's event trigger wish list, I would like to add a couple more:

• on entering  / leaving atmosphere, to allow atmospheric wings to fold in / out
• on landeding / taking off, to allow doors to open / close

Fish, if you place an empty object and call it navlight_xxx it places a navlight, although it is always red as far as I can figure out, I presume this function is not fully implemented yet. I assume the system will automatically assign a colour depending on the side of the model the navlight is placed on?

Fish, if you place an empty object and call it navlight_xxx it places a navlight, although it is always red as far as I can figure out, I presume this function is not fully implemented yet.

that is correct but i was thinking of cases where i may want a different colored light (eg. potsmoke66's ufo would look cool with purple and green lights around the bottom)

Fish, could the same not be achieved using the 'tex_glow' emission texture map?

(I'm a complete modeling noob so I'm still trying to figure all this stuff out)

to some degree but if you wanted them to blink then i think you would need light objects perhaps having an option in the .model file as to how fast they blink if at all would be nice