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Removing Elite/Frontier content

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robn
 robn
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Recently we've been in contact with Frontier Developments about our use of various bits of content from the Elite/Frontier universe. After some discussion we've made the decision to remove content from Pioneer that is directly copied from Elite or Frontier.

Much of this has already been done anyway with the conversion to SGModel, but there's still a few things left. The main things to go are the Lanner (but will remain in the badge logo) and Lave & surrounding systems.

I'll remind you all here that we haven't considered Pioneer to be a clone of Frontier for a while now. We've always drawn a lot of inspiration from Elite and Frontier and that won't change, but this gives us an opportunity to step out and forge our own identity a bit, rather than living in Frontier's shadow.

For the record, this is not in response to any kind of warning or threat from Frontier Developments. On the contrary, we had an extremely productive discussion with them, and they love Pioneer and offered to help us in quite a few interesting ways that would have given them very little benefit. Its not my place to go into detail publically, but I do want to take the opportunity to thank them for taking the time to talk to us and trying to find ways to support us.

On to the next chapter for Pioneer 🙂


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Brianetta
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It's official now...

https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/issues/2093


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Zordey
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Does this mean my "Lion Transport" cant be used in the core game or is renaming it sufficient? 


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Potsmoke66
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better keep it short,

 

who decided?

 

WE?

 

you decided not we!

 

it's the typical behave of dictatorship.

 

they always sa "the people have decided" and it means in truth "i dictate".

 

---

 

in hoc signo vinces

 

under the sign of truth and righteousness,

 

else we are all lost, your childrens childrens as well ads mine, rich or poor it won't matter i promise.

 

and unfortunaterly i'm rarely wrong with my predictions,

 

likewise i have forseen this two years ago...

and

likewise i have forseen that "mr. vasella" won't accept his "compensation".

 

it's logical and easy to foresee.

 

if yours think we "uneducated" can't play chess, well then you are completely wrong.

 

we play chess better, i swear, but we have no interest using it against our companions.


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Brianetta
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Gernot, when I was on the phone with Frontier Developments we never once mentioned you. Not once. This had absolutely nothing to do with you, or your models.


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robn
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who decided?

Core Team.


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Luomu
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 is renaming it sufficient? 

Yes, from what I've seen it's high detailed enough so it could be any space shuttle inspired model.

 

Something like a Cobra mk3 is going to be a recognizable shape no matter what you do.


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Vuzz
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 Anonymous
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A team that's anarchic on the inside and behaves like a benevolent dictatorship to the outside, could re-ignite the historical flame between Karl Marx and Michail Bakunin!   Just some philosophically ironic thought by an observer who appreciates Kropotkin, Malatesta and Colin Ward. No intention to argue. 

 

However, I think that switching to your own models is a good choice. Less ideological and psychological bonds to the past.

 

Anyway, I guess this does not prevent anyone who wants, to create mods of Elite/Frontiers models, or a total conversion, or a fork (it's GPL so... what's the problem?)... Isn't it?


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Potsmoke66
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yep, tichy you are right it's GPL, i shouldn't fight.

 

yeah "do what you like, i do what i like"

 

unfortunately i dislike such behave...

 

he thinks he can choose now between a lot of brilant modellers, we will see...

 

god, i really start to hate you guys, really.

 

not because of the SGM,

not becaause of removing "frontier" contents.

 

because of false speaking.

 

---

 

did one of you clever ones know what anarchy is (not what the word means, have you lived it?)

i guess not.

 

anarchy is to sit around a fire and tell,

 

"ok we are hungry and thirsty, which shop we plunder today?" ... this and that ... after a good meal with all stolen meat "what's next boys do we have a place to sleep?" .. "erm, yes, i know i flat which isn't closed, we can move in and plunder it" "ok, let's go..."

 

and this everyday and everynight, that's anarchy, i lived it for a while, i know what anarchy is.

 

anarchy is not a hobby you can do at weekends, anarchy you have to live, everyday.

you have to able and willing to fight with the cops, everyday.

you don't care about career, money or future at all, are you able to do that?

 

no life for some of you i guess....

 

well keep the "calm" and "pleasing" things in life for yours,

but never dare to take a word like anarchy into your mouth when you aren't able to live it.

 

there was times you risked to get beaten for such, it's all we prolets have, we don't like if you take even this for you.

 

AGAIN

amongst my punk friends i met the most intelligent exponents of human species, believe me we are not stupid only because we proletarians are less educated, but sometimes we neither have the will to speak with some people and rather like to smash a hole in their head.


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Fish
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interesting, i would love to hear more about how they offered to help at some point


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Potsmoke66
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you mean the punks?

 

oh, it will help you to give you a quite different point of view to what's important in life.

 

but you can't understand it, before you lived it, like usually.

 

it helps a lot to keep your mind open...

 

but it won't help you with carreer or work, exactly that's the point. you have to be able to leave it all behind you.

 

to accept that you are "miserable" and never will reach a carreer later probably.

not only to accept it, no it's your outspoken confession to have no career.

 

to have no "quality" in means of quality what society dictates.

 

but well, times are different now, i know, but i would rather see some punks shouting "NO FUTURE", pissing on your leg.

as to see the youth of today impoisoned by all this commercial crap and have no sight except their own miserable life and career.

we dance into a dead end, fired by techno beats and artificial drugs (not that i wouldn't have poked a lot of pills to, let's say the purpose was a little different, or they don't like to debate or talk as we did, they do it only to be able to stay up 8hrs and dance, but this you could do as well without it, well prob. you need to have to tken a little to much for this, but it's no problem for me to set me on a trip without to take something, sometimes i guess i'm trippin' the whole day. i was already trippin' as a child, all children are like on a trip, if you understand this the children will love you, they recognize you immediatly as one of them as a child, not a grown up. i'm still this child, or at least i hope i haven't lost it, that's also why some drugs simply don't work with me, i can't find nothing good on cocaine as example, it does nothing to me, i'm like on cocaine without it already. this feeling like you would sit on a board with needles i have everyday, no wonder that i'm fired up so easy).

 

well it let's me think, if a car or a house or how to get rich is the only thing they can think about.

how i can get a brillant on my teeth or get a golden ring, god is that stupid.

 

but sorry, this isn't the place to debate such, but you asked.

 

to me it was easy then to leave two times all behind me,

first in those "punk days"

then when i have been impoisened by religion, again i left all behind me.

the third and hardest thing was to leave my wife and children behind me,

one could say this is my third and last "test" i have to go through.

and dammit it's the hardest part of all, nothing no money or whatever can bring this back

money has never ment much to me,

career neither, i don't have to be a big wheel

 

but this has nearly killed me.

 

---

 

at this point a big hug to all who helped me through this hard times.

 

thanks TomM for pioneer, without it i would have had nothing to live for.

thanks to geraldine, your pleasing character has always warmed my soul.

thanks also to elite-games.ru, because in the beginning this was the thing which kept me from suicide.

thanks to s2odan, whith whom i had so many good posts to exchange, thank you man.

thanks to D1, for this great site.

thanks to steve for his great elite site and that he still waits for my comeback, thanks man you are really cool.

 

and of course thanks to all the rest who was plain with me all the time,

like

marcel,

walterar,

tourist,

vampiretta,

well even thanks again to metamartian to kept my models in shape when i rested in a singularity, i haven't forgot that.

and thanks to all which i have forgot to name here, them are many i guess, some from this community here, some from frontier forums.

thanks for the inspiring debates, without them, i wouldn't be able to tell what frontier addicted like to see in a game, i know you old cracks 😉

 

and well if all fails...

 

you know i'm a real fan of pioneer, buit taking away finally, and i have foreseen this with a "core team" like this, the elite contents is killing it.

i said this two years ago and i repeat it now.

 

but unfortunately i'm not interested in career so i'm no member of the so called "core team" (really let's me sweat cold "core team")

but i'm for sure the oldest contributor to it if you let the project starters TomM his wife and J.J. aside.

 

no member of a whatever that is "core team", but longest member...

 

one could easy say i helped pioneer quite well to get the reception it has, but the "core team" likes to take all the laurels for them self and like i said not only the reminiscence to elite must vanish no that's not enough for them.

 

in future no one should be able to tell that there was a different team before as luomo and robn, "all the glory for us!"

 

no one should remember TomM or little me, only ROBN AND LUOMO like they was gods, i hate this behave i always hated it and still hate it.

i warned TomM that this is a "agressive act" of overtaking his game, but i guess he didn't heared my warning well.

 

BUT of course never forget i'm wrong and i'm the asshole here.

i can live with that.

 

FISH,

 

it will also help you to see into peoples minds like they where made of glass.


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walterar
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"or a fork (it's GPL so... what's the problem?)..."

 

 

@Tichi The problem is, how to call the fork?

 

"Pioneer Original" or "New Pioneer"

 

Because, obviously, has changed the essence.


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Vuzz
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Pioneer Genesia ?

 

 

00genesia.jpg

 

 

It's my personal version on my Computer (still worked on the alpha31 )

 

or maybe simply Genesia , a  fork  where modelers can used both lmr or sgm system.


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sapog662
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Well, everything changes, is born and dies. I think that all will be well. I want to ask: you have already thought of a plan of further development of the game? I'm a bad programmer and artist, but I have a few ideas.)))


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fluffyfreak
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@Gernot

I'm disappointed dude.

There are clear reasons why we've chosen to do this, it was discussed a lot and honestly we were worried about this reaction from a few of you but that's completely over the top.

 

Andy


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fluffyfreak
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"or a fork (it's GPL so... what's the problem?)..."

 

 

@Tichi The problem is, how to call the fork?

 

"Pioneer Original" or "New Pioneer"

 

Because, obviously, has changed the essence.

 

You could come up with something unrelated to Pioneer.

You don't need to have it related to Pioneer at all, just fork the code/assets from whatever version you like, as Tourist has done, find some coders willing to help out and make whatever you like.


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sapog662
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I would like to hear a representative of the command of developers. I would suggest again: Give the opportunity to the players themselves to develop their game. I mean, Design, build, scenarios and events within the game, during the game. Give players the opportunity to much to add in game. And goods and the weapons and equipment. Make a game object so that it can be and create, and kill. I don't like multiplayer, but you can do that.))) In this case, having a basic set of the game, each player will contribute, and with interest.

 

And do have auto turret on the ships.


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
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You could come up with something unrelated to Pioneer.

You don't need to have it related to Pioneer at all, just fork the code/assets from whatever version you like, as Tourist has done, find some coders willing to help out and make whatever you like.

 I'll never think i'll like a post from at this point ^^

 

in fact the problem for me is to found a coder ( i'm just modeler ) .


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fluffyfreak
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@sapog,

That's the idea with the mod system, it's not all there yet but you can already do an awful lot.

 

If people want to make their own mods with their own ships etc then they're free to do so.

If they want to make changes to keep using LMR etc then they will have to fork the code because that's a much deeper level change.

 

Andy


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ollobrain
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like i said before introduce some content above what inspired pioneer in the first place

factional system, more of a dynamic system, that said i think its a good thing to remove some of the frontier content out of pioneer and this might be enough to push it into its own thing.

As for the haters they make some noise but just throw some more content in there take inspiration from other areas.  LIsten to outside voices, and new contributors and move forward long live pioneer

good to hear fronteir were willing to give some undisclosed help as well


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walterar
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I think you're confused. If the self-proclaimed "core team" decided to change the original essence of the Pioneer project, they should change their name and move to a fork.

 

Otherwise can be considered as a mere usurpation. Not easy.

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Vuzz
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always read the sames things : if we change this system, that decides news artists to joint pioneer ; If we delete that   , new contributors may work whit us , etc , etc .

 

If we decide to be a non clone of frontier maybe they help us ...

 

Pioneer is a clone of a game who is fallin in public domain , so it's no neccesary to change anything , 

 

Maybe if DB have really work on a sequel of FFE a long time ago , Pioneer does no  begun .

But all fans wait after this event too many years , and you mean he want that pioneer don't work on the same universe of Frontier Dangerous ? 

 

and what about Oolite and FFED3D , they  have been contacted too ?

 

 

do you think they 're be ok to delete all their ships ? 

 

I think  the Core Team have loose the contact whith reality , Pioneer is an "amateur" game and not else .

 

Having phone contact whith the dev team of DB don't give Pioneer a particular status , stop to dream ^^


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sapog662
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The best solution is to remain calm. Firstly, we do not know for what reason have occurred these passionate events. Secondly, none of us has offered us what to do , where to go. I am sure that we're all adults, smart people, all this has not happened just like that, and all of us, together, to find an acceptable solution to what happened. I am sure that if we know about the causes in more detail, you'll find solutions more quickly.


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Brianetta
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Pioneer is a clone of a game who is fallin in public domain , so it's no neccesary to change anything , 
 
Maybe if DB have really work on a sequel of FFE a long time ago , Pioneer does no  begun .
But all fans wait after this event too many years , and you mean he want that pioneer don't work on the same universe of Frontier Dangerous ? 
 
and what about Oolite and FFED3D , they  have been contacted too ?

Frontier was not falling into public domain. It is, and remains, a copyrighted work, and it absolutely doesn't belong to us.

If you want to know whether Oolite or FFED3D people have been speaking with Frontier people, I suggest you simply ask them. I don't know, and I don't really care.


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