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Removing Elite/Frontier content

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fluffyfreak
(@fluffyfreak)
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The best solution is to remain calm. Firstly, we do not know for what reason have occurred these passionate events. Secondly, none of us has offered us what to do , where to go. I am sure that we're all adults, smart people, all this has not happened just like that, and all of us, together, to find an acceptable solution to what happened. I am sure that if we know about the causes in more detail, you'll find solutions more quickly.

 

Sapog you are the voice of reason 🙂

 

The acceptable solution is really simple, we replace, rework or rename some ships and spacestations as we have already been doing.

Then we change some place names, and update them to show off what the engine can really do, as we have already been doing.

Then we update the UI to the new style, as RobN has already been doing.

 

In other words, we keep doing what we've been doing for a long time, but now we do it with a deliberate purpose 🙂


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Starblade
(@starblade)
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Exactly what is "Elite/Frontier content" ?? Ships? Entire solar systems?  Mission types? Can't use the same names? Is the cockpit art going to be deleted as well? I have seen persons doing remakes based on other games (like Wing Cmdr Privateer remake) that expand the original universe, but the core - ships, races, weapons- always remains the same.

 

While i do not use the Lanner or the Eagle i reckon them as iconic ships and im sad to see them go. Even if the Eagle is nothing but a normal figher aircraft with inverted wings.


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sapog662
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Satisfy me Your answer. I am glad that we can work on.


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Brianetta
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Exactly what is "Elite/Frontier content" ??

Imagine you had a fan-made Star Wars game, and after speaking with LucasArts you decided to remove all the Star Wars content from the game. It's an analogous situation; you remove replace or rewrite as necessary. The fundamental aspects of the game itself are not under any threat.

You might be aware that Homeworld was originally written as a Battlestar Gatlactica game, but Relic Entertainment couldn't secure the rights to it. The game isn't really any different to what they had planned; it just doesn't use any Battlestar Galactica content.


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fluffyfreak
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@Starblade,

No you can't copyright a lot of those things, you can still have, for example: "a normal figher aircraft with inverted wings" - but make it look a bit different, or remodel it from scratch with new textures, a higher res model and a different name. Likewise we probably won't have Lave as a system, but we can still have a hard starting option that begins in a far-out star system with limited resources, options and there are pirates around etc.

 

Besides we're not a remake of Frontier, the tagline is "inspired by" 😉

We want to go beyond what Frontier was, no less, and a lot more.


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
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so if  pioneer is "inspired by" we just change names , because the level of builds is not exactly the same of the old models of frontiers games, the Pioneer's models  have just a form "inspired by", and can't be considering as copy ? 


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Potsmoke66
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sapog 😉

 

 

I would like to hear a representative of the command of developers. I would suggest again: Give the opportunity to the players themselves to develop their game. I mean, Design, build, scenarios and events within the game, during the game. Give players the opportunity to much to add in game. And goods and the weapons and equipment. Make a game object so that it can be and create, and kill. I don't like multiplayer, but you can do that.))) In this case, having a basic set of the game, each player will contribute, and with interest.

 

exactly this WAS pioneer...

 

oh, most old "elite cracks" dislike multiplayer 😉

 

don't ask me why, but it's a fact (i guess i know why, mobbing is the simple reason. but worst of all is mobbing in a opensource project).

 

---

 

erm, fluffyfreak,

i'm displeased to, believe me,

i'm displeased since i have been called "idiot" and "plagiator".

i'm displeased that my models have been handled neglected, prob. even willingly destroyed.

i'm displeased that criticism didn't get accepted.

i'm displeased with a modelling system which offers "nothing" to me.

i'm displeased that the veto (as far as they dared to vote against our "kings") of players counts a shit.

i'm very displeased that nearly none of the updates to my ships has found a way to the official release.

i'm displeased that i was the only modeller who had to fulfill the condition to contribute via github, which has lead to the situation of the shit looking models.

which HAVE BEEN DESTROYED VERY UNWISELY (willingly, no one can tell me something else, just look at the facts).

i'm displeased that as soon as it was noticed tht i make also fine looking ships with any system, i was decided finally* to remove all elite content, with knowing that this will mean removing of nearly all my models, making also impossible to contribute them to a official release.

(not that such wouldn't have been debated before, but well i can't remember one said this truthfully, but nothing is told truthfully actually).

 

what stands behind that?

 

looks i'm the most displeased one here, and i have damned good reasons to be displeased.

 

---

 

most of what i dont' understand is -

 

the players like the elite content, (and it's certainly no problem, i know)

the players like cockpits, pilots and of course dammit as much as blinking lights as possible.

the players like ships which can be personalized.

 

but why don't care about that?

 

who makes the sound?

 

the crowd!

 

but we have (in parts at least) a "core team" that decides over the head of all the rest what is good or not.

 

the problem is...

 

if a player tells me "that looks stupid to me.." or "cool i like that" i take this serious.

 

why can't some act like this to?

 

why counts their imagination more as the imagination of the user/player?

 

isn't that stupid or prob. simple egoism?

 

---

 

i know in the beginning the style of pioneer was "gernot", of course i was the first modeller who messed with it.

and unfortunately i have a very high output, i produce models in series, like a machine (i transscripted the "gyr" in a single day).

i know this myself i'm no idiot.

 

but i never dictated, neither style or anything, i like to debate yes.

if someone says "couldn't we" or "shouldn't we" that's the proper way to go.

i helped anybody to get his ideas into a shape for pioneer.

i'm not the one who plays with cheated cards here.

i'm not the one who fears competition this much that he has to destroy the work of someone else.

vice versa, i made my laurels here with helping in modelling, not with predicting i'm the only one and the best.

that's the proper way, to help each other, not to destroy the work of one you dislike, or because you can't stand a competition.

 

but tell me who has helped me?

vice versa, they throwed sticks between my legs whenever they could, instead of helping.

 

that with exclusion for your person, for tomm, jj, philly and as well john, you helped me when i asked for, thanks,

that's the way how it should be.

 

but should i feel comfortable with the behave of some?

 

---

 

but again, long sentence, short sense 😉

 

yep it's gpl and prob. we never find one who dares to mess with the LMR,

but we have this opportunity at least.

 

---

 

further belive me i understand well that most modellers felt uncomfortable with it.

especially freelancers like "coolhand" wouldn't have the patience to mess with it, that's obvious.

 

but to the rest of hobbyists i have to say "sad you never dared to, because once you tasted it you won't miss it, i swear"

"there is nothing that can replace something like the LMR, if you catched once how many doors it can open for you"

 

but whysoever it had to be removed, this was declared since?

and by whom?

 

not by me at least, neither i can remember tomm liked to remove it, nah i know he was aware that it's a crux.

but i had no problem with it and took it as a challange.

 

but i guess if it was about him, to get matrix animations, "ya, ok i can live with it".

but to remove it completely? i don't know...

at least me it would have ***** off.

 

apart from that again, nothing can offer this flexibility.

but of course if "i don't like cockpits" there must something behind it.

either blindness or...

 

---

 

HEY SAPOG YOU MUST REMEMBER IT

 

their was times the community on elite-games was quite sure that transparent parts won't work with FFED3D.

 

until "gernot the builder" came along and showed them how it can be done,

do yours was disppointed with this new opportunity?

 

certainly not!


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Potsmoke66
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it's not that i dislike the SGM completely,

but i feel it cuts my wings, and that is bad for me.

 

but personally i'm pretty sure, one reason is to get rid of competition, is to get rid of gernot.

 

and if i think about that, it makes me wild, how can one?

 

ONLY competition makes things better, cheating kills us already all, it will cost the world it's breath, i predict that and you know i'm rarely wrong.

 

to see such behave in a opensource project, to cheat to lie and to mobb let's me think if human kind has a chance at all.

 

but i have children, they don't have to get president, but they should have a world worth to live in.

not a world ruled by liers and cheaters, who care a shit about their childrens children.

who care a shit about their neighbour as long as they get wealthy themself, even if it costs the blood of their own brother.

 

to see all such signs even here, makes me wild yes, believe me.

 

sometimes as wild that i would like to kill all humankind only for their blindness.

 

"if I had my way, i would tear this whole building down" furtuantly i cut my hair off...

 

01010017.jpg

 

"with cigi in mouth"

 

actually not, but i pased the planes you see in the backround in this way, while they was refueling

 

"are you nuts?"

 

i thought, "well you wouldn't have time to notice it"


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fluffyfreak
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You do realise that none of these decisions were taken to annoy you? It was totally separate. You're models are still in the old releases, and always will be.

 

We had to make decisions about the future of Pioneer, using SGModel so that others stand a chance of using it, now we've had to decide to remove the Frontier content from the core distribution for reasons that are outside of this project.

 

At no time did anyone think: "hmm, this will really annoy Gernot so lets do it!", mostly I've just hoped you'd adapt and benefit from it because none of it has been done to annoy anyone but we knew that some decisions would do.

 

What motivated us has been discussed to death above:

  • Uncertain legal stance due to the IP,
  • a real desire to make Pioneer a legally safe base to build other games upon (Paragon for example),
  • a desire to make it a worthy game in it's own right,
  • and a desire not to be treading on the IP for Elite:Dangerous which no-one knew was going to exist.

To be clear Frontier Developments have been awesome but it is their IP, it is being actively developed in a title that they've secured a lot of money to fund, and finally just to hammer the point home it is their IP, not ours.

When old IP's are resurrected the fan projects that use them often get cease and desist letters telling them to stop using that IP. We preempted that by contacting Frontier directly and they've been really happy and helpful with us, I think that OOLite and FFED3D will probably be fine in fact too.

 

However we don't need to use someone else's IP, we can make a game, in fact we do already have a game, that can exist independently - that will never have to worry about IP issues in the future and with all the other changes going on right now it's the decision that makes the most sense for Pioneer and anyone forking the engine.

 

You and everyone else can model things other than those from Frontier/Elite can't you? Yes you can because you've shown us other models in the past.

 

As for the other objections, that's simply us trying to keep the core version of Pioneer light and simple. I.e; a smaller download with less bugs and art issues for us to deal with. It's not a decree that you cannot have cockpits it's that we'd prefer it if you did models for Pioneer without them, and then if you want others to see those cockpits then make them available as a mod because they add complexity to the workload and that takes more time from us getting features made and bugs fixed.

 

That's partly because when you show a model with a pilot we get requests for in cockpit views. That's something that I'd really like to add actually but there are MASSIVE problems with it, the main one is that we'd need to supply high detail cockpit models & textures, change some rendering, rework the camera and do numerous other things which is more time than the entire team combined has to give 🙁

So yeah I'd love it, I'd like to support the Occulus Rift when it launches and other cool stuff, in fact there's a long list of cool stuff but there just isn't enough time.

Then of course there's the scaling issues, the pilots 30ft tall, the missiles change size, the wheels/feet stick through the ground, etc.

 

So you've also just acknowledged that we couldn't get other modellers because of LMR, and it had massive rendering problems and that you had to hack around them in Lua, and it rendered slower and stopped us expanding the game... but you'd still like it to be there. Well, no, it's been a massive problem and stopped people from making Pioneer better. Sure it was an idea at the time, you try ideas, you try and improve them but eventually you just have to ask if it's a good idea at all?

The answer with LMR is no, so it's gone.

 

Despite that RobN spent a lot of time adding the ability to export the LMR models, I have them all dumped to my HDD at home in fact. It revealed huge problems with them that I hadn't even realised were in them but aside from that we spent those weeks of time and effort for you and the others who like LMR. Just to be clear that was ROBN who did it for YOU. I don't even know if you guys have even tried it despite all that effort we made (I helped a bit too). Instead you've gone off on a rant against him directly. That's whats annoyed me more than anything.


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fluffyfreak
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I'm taking a break from the forums for a few days/week.

It's just burnt me out.


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walterar
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Fluffy, you have made me mourn. It is true, RobN is the grandfather of Heidy.


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Potsmoke66
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listen fluffyfreak this fact

 

 

Then of course there's the scaling issues, the pilots 30ft tall, the missiles change size, the wheels/feet stick through the ground, etc.

 is neither my fault, i planned even the old scripted pilot, in the proper size, no question not 30ft tall, i'm no idiot.

 

someone scaled the eagle in a lumpy way up, logically if i double the size of the ship and didn't do something to the scale of the pilot he's doubled in size.

i told that often that it's wrong, that the eagle doesn't have to be doubled in size compared to the original.

but someone else decided and exactly this is what i mean by "destroyed" amongst other unsensible changes.

 

i will give my right arm that all my models was proper scaled, at least before someone else fumbled around at them!

 

the latter, .obj based pilot IS PROPER SIZED and i don't know what that means 30 ft tall, that's not true, i no case.

 

--

 

but anyone can make this proof himself

 

but yeah the one who destroyed my models will do everything to denie that he's responsible for destroying my work and now it looks as i would be a idiot.

that he's responsible for a complete messed up scale in pioneer and no one is sure now if we have meters or feet.

 

no dammit fingers feet or tentacles lenghts, uniform french METER!

 

if something IS scaled totally wrong then it's the skyscrapers, one floor is 8-9 meters and that's beyond any reasonability.

 

french METERS, not tentacle lengths 😉

 

sorry missiles change size?

 

show me before you say such, none of my missiles i placed is scaled wrong, the size is uniform 4 meters length. =

 

and if you see something like,

 

model_scale = 1.5

...

missile(v(pos),scale/model_scale)

 

is that wrong?

 

certainly not! it keeps the 4 meter long original 1:1 missile 4meters on a 1.5 upscaled model.

 

i'm not brillant in maths, but this is clear as water.

 

but exactly here we have the point/error of the giant pilot, doubled the size of the ship left the pilot in original size means ->

pilot is double

what would help?

 

model scale 2x -> pilot scale 0.5

 

but i know i'm only a uneducated idiot...

 

---

 

but if one usensitively changed it, it's not my fault, point with the finger on him not on me!

 

feet/wheels stick through the ground? evidences please not accusations!

 

that's really mean fluffyfreak, i didn't expected such accusations from you, but maybe you are simply desinformed by the one who killed MY WORK!

 

HE's wrong NOT ME!

 

he's wrong in all extensions ,lies, cheats, alters models to let them look shitty!

 

not my fault if he plays unfair


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Geraldine
(@geraldine)
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Hi folks

 

Thought I would add a few comments here for what they are worth.

 

Please, lets keep cool heads here.   

 

@ The Core Team

 

Yes I too am a bit sad to see the Elite content go, it will always be part of Pioneer's history, it's roots if you will, but I understand why it was done. Improvements and advancements can sometimes be painful but necessary for the good of the project as a whole.

 

Yes it is sad, but it is also an opportunity to take Pioneer in new and exciting directions and it is great that Frontier themselves have been supportive of the project, about time in my view. I have said this on the Frontier forum before and I am going to say it again, without the presence of Oolite, FFE3D and Pioneer, Frontier Developments would have had a much harder time getting their project funded. Those games kept the idea of a new Elite game going as evidenced by the support I've seen from so many on the forum who play those games on a regular basis.

 

My guess is that many of the things we see in Pioneer, Oolite and FFE3D, how certain problems were overcome, might well even help Frontier (along the road) in some of the aspects in developing Elite Dangerous itself. David himself knows how important the Elite community is to making this new game happen and the open source communities have a role here in my view by actually showing them new things in operation. Just off the top of my head: with Oolite the sheer depth of the game via the use of OXPs, with FFE3D, how the basic code of the original game can be upgraded and improved upon and finally with Pioneer, the planetary landing models and how procedural content is generated and put into the game itself. To be honest all the the games do much, much more of course, but the inspiration they must give to the Frontier devs must be worth some recognition.

 

@ Gernot

Your ships have been, are and will continue to be amazing. I really hope you will keep making them. You have always been one of the most prolific contributors to the project and the idea of a Pioneer without your models in it, even if they are non Elite ones, would be very sad to my eyes. So please keep contributing Gernot. Make a new set of core ships perhaps? Let your imagination run wild Gernot!    Some of the models you did in the past had a wonderful retro style to them and I for one would really miss your input into the project.

 

As for your lovely Elite ships I still fly nothing else in Pioneer but that wonderful Sidewinder model you made.

 

If the only way to do that from now on is via a mod pack, is that so bad?

 

To close, sorry for that rant folks but I hate to see conflict especially so between people who have so much more in common than they have differences. I love Pioneer and I want to see it go on and on to new things but at the same time, acknowledge it's roots too. Thats why I hope Gernot (and others) will keep on updating the Elite models and have them available as an add-on.


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Potsmoke66
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really this is unfair,

 

you can say about me

 

i'm a loud mouth, yes i am

i'm unpleasing, yes sometimes

i'm a egoist, yes in certain fields of my interests

i'm agressive, yep, like a acid pit 😉

 

BUT

 

to tell that my stuff is modeled that bad is mean, because it's not true

marcel knows,

walterar knows,

tourist knows,

many other i guess know this to.

 

because they kept their ships updated with the proper corrected models by me.

 

but if one willingly destroys it only to let me look shitty...

 

make your own thoughts please

 

the whole up and downscaling thing has brought me to a quite clever solution.

and actually most of my LMR models you can scale to the size you like

BUT pilot, missiles, and all else what has a fixed scale wil keep the scale.

i even altered the pilot a little for this and center is now between the hands, why?

thus you can size the ship up or down, pilot keeps scale AND position, hands always on the board.

 

 

but yeah, i'm a idiot who must be faught with all kinds of mobbing and cheating.

 

some could really take profit of my experience,

but i guess they decided to accuse and untermine, do you think i'm wiling to share knowledge with one that accuses me?

with one that has willingly destroyed my work?

 

tell me what would you do with someone like that?

 

take him as a friend or rather as a foe?

 

to me he's foe nr.1, he destroyed my work to make it look shitty.

 

he better takes care never to meet me.

 

BUT YEAH YOU HAVE A CHANCE

 

evidences not accusations and i will step back and you will never hear of me.

i can say this with no fear, because i know my models was in good shape before he layed his clumsy hand on them.


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robn
 robn
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Topic starter  

to me he's foe nr.1, he destroyed my work to make it look shitty.

You say "he" a lot, but you never provide a name. Lets be clear - are you talking about me?

evidences not accusations and i will step back and you will never hear of me.

Evidence goes both ways. Show me places where I called you names, where I destroyed your work, where I misrepresented you, where I lied, etc and I'll be the first to apologise.

Otherwise, cut it out. Personal attacks and threats of violence get you nowhere.


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
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If the only way to do that from now on is via a mod pack, is that so bad?

 

No it's wash no bad , but the LMR system is just disable on the source , and most of theses models are in lua .

 

So  at the realease a32 , in the actual developpement of the source , we can't make a rapid add on , these models must neccessary convert in sgm system .

 

... i'm a fan of pioneer , and of course of the  frontier universe but ... i gest i just using the a31 of pioneer . 


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 Anonymous
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Thank you Geraldine. You wrote many of the things I was thinking. It's necessary to stop for a second, calm down and think with a clear mind.

What has changed? In the core game there will be no more references to Elite. But nobody prevents those who want to create mod with the models of your choice.

The modelling system has been changed and now its features are incomplete. It's understandable. It has been changed very recently. I think it is in the interest of all, bring it to the same level as the previous one. I think that nobody wants to make pejorative changes.

I think that many of the angriest comments and harsh responses are born from pride and ego. It's normal... and quite common, even in many free software projects (Debian also had grown a certain reputation, from this point of view). But once you understand this, you can stop for a moment, change your perspective and start thinking in a quite more rational and less overly emotional way.

And if you think you may be oppressed by some big power, you may think that, if you wish, you can fight not only directly in order to overthrow it, but you can try to work around it by creating autonomous zones in which to develop what you want. I am sure that in this case, contrary to what happens in everyday life, no one would try to prevent it.


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robn
 robn
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Topic starter  

So  at the realease a32 , in the actual developpement of the source , we can't make a rapid add on , these models must neccessary convert in sgm system .

And that's only because we don't want to maintain LMR anymore, for reasons that have been enumerated ad nausaeum. You're free to continue using alpha 31, as you do, or get the LMR code out of mothballs and prepare your own builds and release them, or whatever else you want to do with that code.


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
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@ Robn , 

 

 You perfectly know that i'm not a coder , so don't tell me i'm free to use LMR system.

 

"or get the LMR code out of mothballs"

 

Hey guy i'm not  Gernot so please stop be so  arrogant .

 

you can say that  about LMR system when a builder can make a complete model with your "Rolls" SGM ( anim , ligth , etc , etc)


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Potsmoke66
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thanks friend, as usual you're the light in darkness.

 

yes i know i still can contribute via mods, and i decided quite a while ago to feel comfortable with it, simply because i keep control then over my work and don't have to fear someone "destroys" them.

 

but on the other hand, i mean it get's hard to impossible with the SGM, not that i can't handle it, no, but neither the sidie wil look as good as she did now.

that's the point.

 

but before one claims i can't handle SGM or blender, certainly such makes me wild...

you can give me the modelling tool you like, i can work with it.

that's the BIGGEST profit i got out of the LMR, thanks again TomM, to me this was the best training, not to replace and you can't buy with no money.

you have to DO it, really that was a great thing, understanding how models WORK FOR REAL, that can't be learned no where else, pressing a button anyone can do,

setting up a script needs a little more will.

AND what could be possible with 3D models if one is not to tightminded to accept this as good and not as overhauled and ancient.

IT IS (was) the most sophisticated modelling system, imho.

but pure blindness and egoism has brought it to fall.

 

500£ or not, i don't needed that, it pleases me to model with the LMR.

the result iis UNIQUE

 

SGM is like all the rest

 

LMR there was only one

only one that can offer you full freedom

with limitations of course

but if i compare the limitations of one with the limitations of the other, well LMR is best.

super hard sometimes impossible to program a proper conrod, ok, but look at all the rest.

but exactly this is unwanted now,

why?

 

but strangewisely, i have never seen a WIP of him, how could that be?

you can go anywhere where modellers meet, for sure each is proud to show off his latest stuff he's up to.

it's a sort of our pride, we like to show off our work, we like to compete.

also exchange of knowledge and experience, because certainly you gain some interest.

 

but his models are "complete" and unchanged since i saw them first, that looks suspicious to me.

 

well if it would be a commercial project of course, fixed timepoint and no changes afteward, but they aren't that finished.

so explain me (or to yourself) what could be the logical reason?

 

---

 

some WIP's of mine 😉

to show that i work, i'm no plagiator, i copy yes, but i'm no plagiator.

i know scale and size well and really

to tell a construction worker who measures alignment with the eye better as any laser tool can do, that's not only bad, it's stupid.

if i mount a large aircondition tube, diameter 500 - 1000mm you can be sure it's 100% straight, without  a laser and without a balance.

only with my eye and my experience.

i can tell you "blindfolded" if something is rectangular or not.

 

now telling me my stuff is scaled wrong is like you would say "newton was wrong", sorry.

 

and stop using imperial measurements, if something is really ancient then this, it should be banned since 200 years, imho.

but if i think, we had that to, every county has had it's own "tentacle lenghts", what a confusing shitty situation, industry can't work with such.

(but it's very good to cheat with it, you can make a lot of profit if measuring is not uniform)

thus we have the french uniform meter.

but well i guess it was because it's french....

besides of that i'm still wondering how you can work exactly with something that ends up always in irregular fractions?

 

just for those whoi think i can't...

it's still "elite content", forgive me

 

the new cobra mk1

 

http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/files/download/993-mod-cobra-mk-i-sgm-30-1/

 

a absulutely overhauled eagle, "who wouldn't like this as a starting ship"

well marcel, robn, luomo and brain wouldn't like it.

 

http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/files/download/994-mod-eagle-long-range-fighter-mk-ii-mk-iii/

 

show me a wrong size here or in any model i made (not the ones luomo destroyed)

 

---

 

ah, names ok i named him here, it wasn't you robn but i guess you stand fully behind him, no Q for me.

 

---

 

yep tourist we ar no coders but you know it's no secret, it can be learned, like everything.

i guess i can, would need some time but i know i'm able, there is not much you can't learn if you have the will to.

 

a learned a lot and if i guess, many autodidactible

to go to a school and learn anyone can, to learn autodidactible is something quite different and of course i'm proud of such.

unfortunately you won't have any degree, but what counts that if you do it better?

ah it costs salary, yeah thinking in $

but i don't think in $

i think in

 

    *   *

 **      **      **

   **          **

      **     **

         ***

 

's


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sapog662
(@sapog662)
Master Chief Registered
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 140
 

Cannot download. The site says that I have not enough rights to do so.


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
(@vuzz)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 491
 

me too  :/


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Pinback
(@pinback)
99 Star General Moderator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 8820
 

Always thought Pioneer should lose the Frontier look and become it own game. 


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Potsmoke66
(@potsmoke66)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1815
 

your sometimes funny robn,

 

first you say you like to hear names (while i think each knows for sure for what he is responsible or not, isn't it?)

 

then you say you dislike personal affronts

 

so this is like to force me to tell a name and in the same sentence to call this a bad behave.

 

hey, i'm no idiot, stop such threadbare psychotricks.

 

could be i'm wrong but i guess not, the facts speak for themselves.

 

 

---

 

well fluffyfreak, i'm not sure with what exactly robn served me, the LMR has existed already.

 

dumping the tard?

 

gosh the dumped models are absolutely useless, you can't work with that.

 

what you see here and further conversions from the LMR are extracted with OGLE.

 

with that i got a proper scaled export of the main model and all submodels scaled proper and in proper position.

i won't get a LOD1 exported where no LOD1 exists (what the dumped files will contain).

 

i don't have to examine the script to find out in a long way how they are scaled and where they belong to.

 

(and to export a wavefront, you wil say yes it's useless they exist in the models folder already so why should one dump it?)

 

the only leak is loss of smoothing when i use GLXtractor, but that's a minor issue compared to what i get from a model dump.

 

also i get from the extraction each geometry seperately and not only split by use of materials.

 

well, after i examined it, because i really thought it could be handy, i found out, "useless" i can't work with that.

 

it's no tool you can export a model and use it, that's obvious, but it's even not a tool useful to rebuild it.

 

i'm sorry, this effort was needless for me, i can't use it and i won't use it, because it didn't deserves the longings i have.

 

just imagine someone else would have liked to convert the eagle

 

(ahh... now i know why you said the pilot is 30ft tall, wheels stick oout of the hull, yes from the dumped models, ja that clarifyies a lot)

 

how would he know how the stuff is scaled?

he had to examine the script

and if it's a sub-model, even the sub-models script to find the right scale of the exported object.

submodels unscaled and positioned to their own center, means all animated objects are centered logically at vector 0,0,0

sized like they was scripted.

 

but you have to know, let's say a simple recess for a landing gear.

ok, you take for this either some quads,

a extrusion

or the cuboid function.

 

to make it easy you take values like 1,2,3

then you scale and position the sub-model on the ship,

 

that's why everything is "wrong" when dumped, it didn't respects the scale given in the call for the sub-model.

e.g i call then the complete assambled undercarriage with

"call_model(v(10,-2,5),v(1,0,0),v(0,1,0),0.25)" as example

 

dumped it returns the model at v(0,0,0) scale 1, for the undercarriage sub-model.

now usually such a undercarriage sub-model contains further sub-models, needed to animate the stuff

each of this sub-models has again untransformed scale, rotation and position.

 

finally that looks as worse as a reimported .x mesh with all parts exploided or centered to v0,0,0.

 

that's why it's to clumsy for me to use it and imagine someone else would like to rebuild a scripted model on base of this.

it get's horrible.

 

it will take more time, i swear you, to rebuild it as i needed to script it.

 

meaner, if i have a submodel rotated i.e simply in the way of v(0,0,1),v(0,1,0)

dumped it's v(1,0,0),v(0,1,0), original alignment before the sub-model was called up in the "final" model (or a further step, conrods and constrained animations need various sub-models to make this work)

 

ergo it returns "junk", sorry i won't harm yours with that, but it's true, i can't work with the dumped stuff.

i could, but to examine the script for every little shit is boring and complicated.

 

and guess it's my model, i mean i roughly know how scale is or where they belong to, but someone else?


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Potsmoke66
(@potsmoke66)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1815
 

cannot download?

 

erm, hey you "rocket fuel engineer", that's your part, check them out and release it 😉


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