Notifications
Clear all

 


I use crypto.com app personally on a daily basis and its great and takes the stress out of learning crypto and the crypto debit cards are great, ask me anything on this. I will probably make a thread discussing crypto soon. REFERRAL CODE = p5mu64hcq4
 

Modular Ship Systems


DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  

I have noticed in a lot of the games that are coming out that this modular design is really catching on. Who wouldn't like the ability to just change the cockpit look or only upgrade the long range scanners. How much granularity do you want in this functionality?

Personally not to deep so that it is confusing but I would like to be able to divert power/resources to areas of my ship to either boost the power or efficiency. And I would also like to be able to specifically target these systems. I know normally we see this on Capitol ships where you can take out specific systems at a time but this should also be the same for the smaller more agile ships. It would be a great effect to take out there sensors and now they are flying blind no radar and no target assist.

I like the modular equipment upgrades so you can upgrade components without having to replace the entire ship. Just my opinions is there even a downside to modular ship design in games?


Quote
DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  

Gotta be someone with some opinions on this 🙂


ReplyQuote
DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  
c0mas wrote:
There is always a downside 🙂

In this case, I think that if the target is the non-hardcore kind of players then this might be the "boring part". This days, most of the players are used with action and they just want to get started.

Also, in games with similar options, most of the players will just go with the default setup (I think the percent is somewhere between 80 and 90)

On the other side, I think this will add a lot of experience to online games.

I see your point but there has to be a way to please the instant action type crowd and the hardcore crowd. I mean the people that don't care about the hardcore targeting/ship building could be put at a disadvantage and once they find out they will read and learn. I think you can make a hardcore game with simple settings. Even if you dumb it down and let the computer pick the best configuration for that users skill selections.


ReplyQuote
sgchr
(@sgchr)
Crewman Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 9
 

You guys are right. Modular system implementation is for hardcore players only. Casual players won't bother with this stuff. Anyway, personally I love to design my ships to fit exactly my needs. I still play Master of Orion 2 from time to time. It's such a great classic TBS game, flawless in its design. I would also recommend playing Galactic Civilizations - they also have modular ship construction.


ReplyQuote
DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  
Quote:
personally I love to design my ships to fit exactly my needs.

I think if developers made this option for players and made it easy to understand and dumb it down for players I think it would be more than hardcore gamer requirement. Because I am like you in the fact that why wouldn't you if you had the ability to tweak your ship systems or hull to suit your needs. Because it would benefit you more in-game.

sgchr wrote:
I still play Master of Orion 2 from time to time.

Just in case you didn't know about this project sgchr you should checkout this remake of MOO. Whenever I get more free time I will try to play this and give some thoughts on it but fee free to post your own reviews on it if you play it before me 🙂

http://www.freeorion.org

Here is a few screenshots of the work-in-progress:

Galaxy_Map_AIs_SVN3100.png

Design_Screen_SVN3097.png

research.jpg

galaxymap.jpg


ReplyQuote
Cambragol
(@cambragol)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 32
 
Darkone wrote:
Gotta be someone with some opinions on this 🙂

Well, we have built a semi-modular ship upgrade system into Unstable Space. The core game, and US, have the ability to divert power to various systems, including shields, weapons, and engines. Really, one of the main features of I-war2 and US is the ability of the player to customize his ship in order to meet diverse threats and challenges. However, the original game is not really modular, in that it only allows the changing of weapons, shields and systems. The ship itself, the model and form of the ship, do not change. In US the ship does change, in a limited capacity. All external weapons have visible avatars, so changing them changes the appearence of the ship.

The I-war2 universe also seemed to have a built in modulaity of ships, though it was never fully implimented. Basically it boils down to the command sections. On several ships, there is the possibility of one of two or even three different command sections being mounted. I-war2 developers may have taken a pracitcal/realistic approach to modularity, the same one I would want to take if given the choice. Unless there is a realistic and practical reason why a ship has modularity, it wouldn't sit well with many players. An example I believe is Dark Star One..(forgive me, but the actual game name has faded from my memory, thankfully). In that game the ship was very modular, at least in terms of systems, weapons etc. However, the reason given for it being so modular was very weak, and really just seemed to serve as a cludge to achieve a gameplay type.

In anycase, it seems to me that there could be realistic and practical reasons for having modular ships, though only after the entire 'spaceflight' technology of a race had reached a point where modularity could work. We don't really have 'modular' cars yet, but we are close. Jet fighters, no modularity. Personal computers, very modular. Cell phones, not so modular, yet, but there are parties working on that.

I would love to increase the modularity of the loadout system in US, but it would take a lot of work, and would necessitate a coder to get things working well. I am still toying with the idea of making all cockpits modular, but that is probably as far as one could realistically go with I-war2.

Just some thoughts.


ReplyQuote
Pinback
(@pinback)
99 Star General Moderator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 8779
 

I would like to see two or three different designs of ship which would fit onto larger

sections ie a big cargo barge think of the Nostromo from Alien or have modules fitted

onto them like the Eagle from space 1999.or the jedi starfighter with its jump engine add on


ReplyQuote
Cambragol
(@cambragol)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 32
 

That is almost precisely what I had imagined at one point for Unstable Space. I have 3-4 command section models, and actually looked into what it would take to make them dockable with every ship type in the game. It would be possible but how practical would it be? You need to be able to actually do the docking and switching of ship parts to make it practical. And that means making every, or nearly every ship, pilotable. So perhaps not totally feasible for a first person space sim. Possible though...

A game where it works quit well is Sword of the Stars. I think, from memory, that pretty much every ship is built from modular components.


ReplyQuote
Pinback
(@pinback)
99 Star General Moderator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 8779
 

As you say,poberly not possible to have just a command section which could link up to

all the ship bodies in a game.But I think a specialized ship like a tug with could be then

docked with a cargo barge to become one large ship could be easily done in these games

there could be a number of different barges something similar to todays artic lorries wich

have different trailers for different jobs.maybe even a military one something like the

system defence boat from the paper&pen game Traveller.


ReplyQuote
DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  
farcodev wrote:

Each equipment module can be a compartment module, a control module, a hull modification as a spinning hull w/ it's mechanism, a powergrid (generators and capacitors), a space drive module, a subsystem module and a weapon system module. It cost volume and surface space, generate energy or consume it and add mass. It add build time too.

Does your base ship have all these available module slots from the beginning or do you have to buy bigger ships to get real use of the modular design? Could a station be de-modularized and create another ship(s) or can ships just add modules to a station?

But generally adding modules should possibly change the ship look if it is changing/adding to the structural part of the ship and or you should see an improvement to overall ship performance if it is a systems/weapons mod.


ReplyQuote
Cambragol
(@cambragol)
Petty Officer Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 32
 

Bringing space stations into the equation...

The international Space Station is very modular. Heck, it is made up of various modules! Additionally, if you have ever seen any of Nasa's Mars mission ideas, they are usually based around a very modular spacecraft, assembled in orbit not-unlike the space station itself.

So, modularity is being used in our actual space exploration.

This also reminds me that at one point we were going to completely modularize Torn Stars stations. They are all modular to begin with, but the final implimentation in game was to make static models from modular pieces. We wanted to make stations dynamically modular. The result would be stations that could grow and respond to changes in the economy, damage, player missions etc. It would have been a very interesting gameplay addition built off techniques used in actual space exploration. Oh, but for a POG programmer it could still materialize...


ReplyQuote
Shant
(@shant)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Well put me down for "I don't see a down side". I'm kinda shocked to read that 80-90% of players ignore the customization aspect and just go with a stock model default. It's hard for me to imagine anybody taking the time to learn/play a hard core space sim, but not have the patience to customize their ship. For me, the more customizing options, the better. The more modular, the better.

Anybody every played the Armored Core series, on consoles? You have to build your Mech suit piece by piece. In online play, literally no 2 players' mechs are alike. In the last game of the series there were over 300 individual parts & weapons. Awesome stuff, I literally spent 4 hours customizing my mech in the shop for every 30 minutes of actual combat.


ReplyQuote
DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  

Evochron Legends has a nice modular ship building system (both ship systems and hull). If you play the demo you will see it. I almost think customization is a must for me since I like working toward things or items to put on my ship or make it look different. I don't want to look like all the other ships.


ReplyQuote
Shant
(@shant)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 229
 

One more reason to try Evochron again. Tried the demo once but couldn't get things going. Can't remember why, probably something to do with my controller. A big limitation for me as I'm coming from many years of exclusive console play, which means I only like to use the controller. No mouse, no keyboard.

Yeah, I will literally spend hours upon hours fine tuning my ship if I can. When I'm in the zone re: ship building, the time literally flies by in a way that the actual gameplay doesn't compare to. But maybe guys like us are in the minority? Apparently.


ReplyQuote
DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
Supreme Dark Emperor Admin
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 7670
Topic starter  
Shant wrote:
Tried the demo once but couldn't get things going. Can't remember why, probably something to do with my controller.

Hmmm wonder if you had issues with the newton physics that game uses. I know it takes me a few sessions to adjust after playing other games for a while. Yeah, modular ship designs are more geared toward the hardcore gamer but if people just think of the potential when they are playing they would love it. Too many people want to not think in a game and just have fun playing, hence this is why games get dumbed down.


ReplyQuote
Shant
(@shant)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 229
 

Which missions you having trouble with, mate? Maybe we could play through them in coop and get you the missing parts. I personally liked that there were several very tough missions (truth be told there was only 1 mission on the hardest difficulty that was ever really an issue for me). I got many hours more of replay value out of it because of that. Otherwise, once you've unlocked everything and earned all the parts, beaten every mission on hard mode, there's nothing left to do but battle others online. Fantastic game though.

We should trade ps3 IDs if you want to do some co-op. We can even trade some mechs if you like, I've built some true masterpieces I have to say. Seems like I was locked in a basement for months at a time building some of these mechs, only to surface when I could finally be sure that I couldn't improve the specs any further. That's what modular systems are all about.


ReplyQuote
Toadslinger
(@toadslinger)
Crewman Registered
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 6
 

Beginner here with a question. (Years later) when you say that you like to design a ship to your needs, "do you then share your new ship design with any forum or community?"

I am working on a full motion simulator. I am thinking of trying to run some of the new spacesim games on it. I have Celestia, but some of these spacesim games sound like they would be a better fit.


ReplyQuote
Pinback
(@pinback)
99 Star General Moderator
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 8779
 

I am working on a full motion simulator. I am thinking of trying to run some of the new spacesim games on it. I have Celestia, but some of these spacesim games sound like they would be a better fit.

 

Not sure you will get an answer to such an old thread but you are always welcome to start a new one about your simulator in this forum. http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/forum/41-show-off/


ReplyQuote