Space sims are all just variations on the same game. We need a different game in the same genre.

A space sim, but not as we know it. Something that stands out as a game in its own right, genre aside. The way to do that is by creating a unique atmosphere. A combination of visuals and storyline. I've got my own ideas about what that should be, but whatever it is, writers need to clear the table and start again without all the baggage.

FPS' need to do this too. There is a growing feeling that the military shooter has reached a bit of a dead end creatively, and I wouldn't be surprised to see MW4 sell less than MW3. Tacking an FPS onto a space sim dilutes both and inevitably one side will be weaker than the other, dragging down the overall experience

Basically, think outside the box

The beautiful thing about this genre being so "unpopular" is that the space sims that are being developed are being done by people who are the most passionate about them. Pioneer is an amazing example, and so are all of the elite remakes. As has been said before, you put the games in the hands of big developers and they'll muddle them up every time.

As far as the future of space sims goes, I have to say I'm excited to hear the Minecraft dev wanting to get into the mix. The games that seem to have the most power to captivate are the ones that allow the player to build, construct and generally go wild without having to follow a rigid, inflexible plot/story/world. Minecraft seems incredibly popular, and it could really be something if what the dev was talking about materializes. And what about Kerbal Space Project anyone? The fact that Kerbal takes something as tedious as orbital mechanics and packages it in such a way that it is an open, explosive, fun, and new challenge gives it that replay value that's hard to beat. It's even gotten me more interested in Orbiter, and the potential of Artlav's Spaceway project.

It's certainly not a dead game genre when there is so much going on. 😀

Just hoping someone can produce that hit that will ignite the interest of the major developers/publishers and bring these games back to the masses.

I reckon that there will be a kind of singularity moment where it all comes together.

I'm a former Elite person myself but don't quite have the time to play so much - I can see that if you could get Evochron Mercenary trully MMO and continue to make the universe absolutely realistic it's just going to be ace. I really think that it could be so immersive that you could really feel you are there. Its quite clear that for my tastes the right components are all out there at the moment. Unfortunately for my taste they're not quite all in one game!

At the end of the day the tools for developers get better every year and the power and storage gets better all the time. Hell bandwidth are getting better as well. Eventually devs like Vice will be able to concentrate fully on the game play without worrying so much about the hard metal...

Then we will see our dreams realised

(first post I know but I 've been lurking for the last 6 months)

Welcome to SSC Dalkith and Crispin., always good to get some other opinions.

Don’t think theirs any tech reason why walking/driving around planet can’t be included in games probably more to do with the cost of generating all the content they would require to make each of the planets different from one another.

All hail Pinback

Hey I've been watching Jupiter and Venus recently and I can clearly saw Mars in opposition tonight as well

In fact astronomy seems to be the flavour of the month at the moment in the UK. Still very much a small but powerful subest I always think its strange that you ask any teenager what a Ford Mustang looks like and they'd probably give you a good description despite the fact that in the UK there non on the streets and yet you ask them to point out Sirius / Rigel / Beetlegeuse and they won't have a clew.

Hey found this the other day you guys are going to love this.

Found this article on Evochron mercenary that you might find interesting

http://www.thegamecreators.com/pages/ne ... e_109.html

Seems its' been doing well on Steam

Reminds me of those Carl Sagon songs some one posted a couple of years back.

I had typed a long essay, but because of the login timeout, I lost all the text *pissed off* So here's just a short reply (I had spent 4 hours on the original text), a tl;dr version.

I think it's a great opportunity that space gaming in general isn't popular at the mainstream producers. It makes it easier for the indie game developers to fill the niche markets, which enables a richer gameplay experience for many space gamers. This is especially the case for space sims.

I hear many people here saying they want a mix of space sim, FPS and RPG. I don't know if it got mentioned here (I read up until the 7th page), but there's shores of hazeron. Check out the 2 trailers:

It's a free game, in development, but already very well playable. It has a rapidly growing player community, and has some great gameplay. It essentially is a mix of Minecraft, Homeworld, Simcity and Spore.

Take a look for your own leisure 😉

Has anyone noticed that the SSC is turning into a bit of a Space Sim Ship Yard these days with many new titles being announced and WIPs being posted? This genre is coming back to life! 😎

Great pics Geraldine 😆 😆

I only just see you post here but I posted something on the Frontier forum on this very subject, but you definitely right there does seem to a bit of an renaissance going on, all we need is someone to produce that killer hit which will convince the bigger developers to take the plunge.

Lets just say a certain other thread on the Frontier Forum inspired me <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_lol.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

I like to see this a lot personally, because this is why the site was created for the hopes that developers and players can really communicate their thoughts on making the best games for the genre. I like it when I have to add a new developer rank to the system and see these new games popping up because I do feel like there is a resurgence of new games being built. And I hope with SSC being as open as I can make it that it only grows, because with advertising only being word of mouth it is nice to see people really coming together.

Ok, here goes the shameless plug.... 'It also helps to have such a dedicated group of gamers coming together for one purpose..... to bring space and scifi gaming back to the top of the charts. With good people many things can be accomplished.' Or I can say it a simple way 'If you don't convert.... then soon you will know the vacuum of space. 😈

I like that 🙂 I'm actually considering to put my game development's forums on here 🙂

Mmmmm let me check...................yep there is still a few spare dry docks available! 🙂

i figure with indie gaming, alpha funding and kickstarter getting so popular, space sims have nowhere to go but UP...hopefully

Just say the word Robske and it shall be done.

And just to give a tidbit on some thoughts swirling in my head about the progression of space games and SSC in general. I have some plans that I am putting together and just trying to gather the money to buy things that I need to expand the breathe of SSC to make it easier and more advantageous for everyone (ie: gamers, developers and the gaming community). I was going to really try to create a portal that will be the players and the developers a place where they want to be to share their games and gamers will share thoughts and give their never ending input to make games better. I know I have never been a great promoter and people usually find SSC because of word-of-mouth, but that's not always a bad thing because then you do get the right people in the community the passionate ones which is key to any genre's survival. I will talk more about this soon in a admin post in the forums and I might send out a blast PM to everyone about my intentions because I think SSC and and the fans could really make a difference.

But to all developers, if you want a forum here you just need to ask and its done. All I ask is that you use it, because our cleaning crews are always busy 🙂

this would be great imo. although i'm not a developer, just a gamer. it could be like tigsource but for space games. i like the sound of that...

Ok, i know i'm reviving a very old post but i couldn't help myself.

It's a very interesting question so i'm going to give you the 3 main reasons of why space sims are so unpopular.

1. People are "ground" dwelling beings which means that we're not accustomed in operating in the air/space.

2. Maneuvering (Roll, Pitch, Yaw, Elevation, Strafing, Thrust) in a 6DOF environment is confusing to say the least.

3. Spatial awareness in a void (no trees, no ground, no physically identifiable objects) environment is very tough and not many people can handle it.

The space sim market is a niche market simply because space it's too hard to understand and cope with !!

PS: People that play space & flight simulators are in general of higher .... intelligence

In this months Retro gamer the main feature is the making of the StarWars X-wing games, at the end of article David Wessman one of the developers of X-wing games gives similar reasons.

Why we need Space Sims

I think some gamers today just don't want to learn how to play a game with complexity. Although I respect David Wesmann's view, I think he is mistaken that gamers are "incapable", instead it's a choice made by gamers themselves, it's easier to be led by the hand through a game rather than learn proper tactics or work it out for yourself.

When I first got Frontier in the early 90s, I was perplexed. How would I ever learn this strange flight model? How the hell would I ever win a dogfight? How the hell would this tiny pulse laser my tiny little ship had, ever do in a fight against bigger, better armed ships with beam lasers?

There were no gameplay vids on You Tube, game forums (for what little there were back then) came up short on info. I had to write an actual letter with actual pen and paper to Game Tek to get help! And to my amazement I got several sheets of print outs from Game Tek with hints for the game in the post! After that, I approached the game with a new sense of determination to master the flight model and I am glad I did because all these years later I am still playing it <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Don't be afraid people, of complexity in games, yes such games take longer to get into, but the reward is that much sweeter once you do. You get a game that will challenge you, not only on how fast you can press a trigger, but on how you move, where you move, what you do with the equipment (or ship) you have to hand.

There is an old saying that the biggest guns make the most noise and that's true, but it's also true that the smallest guns can be the most deadly accurate too <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

I don't think there a lot of water in Wessman argument although there may be something to the "people have difficulty navigating a 3D space, and threats come from anywhere" but it seems a bit like Voilition blaming joystick sale for the poor sales of Freespace 2.

Lack of any real development in the genre probably had more to do with it being booted into the niche market and away from the mainstream game audience.

Sometimes I think it is a much simpler argument than most, I watch my kids play games on the PS3 and PC and they usually play exclusively on the PS3. Why you might ask, the controller for one and second the games seem easier for them to grasp and work through. When PC's sometimes offer more depth and challenge. Sometimes I do agree with people when they say sim combat/sim games are for smarter people 🙂 The kids have never even tried to play Mass Effect, FF13, Fallout New Vegas, Red Dead Redeption and a few others because of dedication you have to give these games to beat them. I think we have dumbed down the games for the youth today that they generally shy away from a challenge or failure at not being good at something. I was trying to play Lost Planet 2 with the kids the other day and it does have some very hard spots but you have to use strategy and work as a team and you can do it. Of course we are playing split screen and I can't watch both and give feedback, so I entrust the kids to think for themselves and solve the pattern or use the best cover/weapon depending on the enemy. The kids gave up playing after about 30-40mins of failing the level and they just call the game stupid/lame and have yet to play it again. I really think it is the fact that space/scifi games in general are more challenging and the developers expect a certain player type for the game itself. None of my kids have yet to watch me play a space game and say can I play? Why is that 🙂

You can solve some of the problems by giving frames of reference to the player. Scenery, especially that which is in the actual combat arena, such as a big battleship or spacestation help in allowing us to work out up and down, left and right. Even if the brain picks an arbitrary up, at least it then has something to orientate around.

Another thing that helps spatial awareness is a map. Here you get the problem of having to map a 3d space onto a 2d square. The best way I saw was actually to just have a flattened birds-eye view 2d map

"Dumbing down" a game is simply a "match-making" action between the player and the AI. We can go on complaining as to why (btw, my son also don't like sims ... 😥 dissapointed father i am) people don't like them but it's either us or them. If sims were a "point and click" we wouldn't be talking right now. Simulators are a special kind of game for a special kind of people. To them we're "mentally unstable" to us they're "mentally disabled" 😆 .

Actually, a "map" in the traditional sense is not helpful. What is needed is a "situation display" as they call it. That display, along with the direction carets around the monitor, dumbens down the game enough for them to cope because it displays the spatial relation between you and other moving objectives (e.x enemy of friendly ships, bases, ... etc). It's not a "navigational" aid, although it can also be used as one.