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A Real Explanation For Ancient Builders?

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Geraldine
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Found this very long, but interesting, video that gives an alternative theory for how some of the most impressive and ancient structures around the world were actually made with the help of solar lenses and concrete. No aliens, no ancient super races involved.

Now, I know what your thinking, the same thing I thought when I saw these solar lenses but....they actually work!

As always folks, make up your own minds.

This topic was modified 2 years ago by Geraldine

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Pinback
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Interesting idea about moulding the blocks for the pyramid in the first half of the film but the second half is stretching it a bit.


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Geraldine
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For me it was the first bit. It was only when I saw these lenses actually melting solid granite and saw lenses they found from this time in other videos, that I really do wonder if they are onto something here.


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Gaius Konstantine
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I never bought into Aliens, other than a minuscule chance that some from within our own solar system were responsible (See the Sumerians for details).

My belief is that it is something else, for which there is plenty of precedent. We today in the west, live in an age of technology and wonder, yet at the same time, stone age societies still (barely) exist on the planet. In other words, progress and technology evolve at different paces throughout the world, they always have.

Based on that, I think history is far older than we think, by history I mean civilization on a grand scale. So a society being more advanced than others having existed 10,000 years ago is plausible, and no, they need not have been more advanced than we are today to have had a dramatic edge over their peers. Rome collapsing taught us that science and technology can be lost, some of what was possible during Rome's heyday, did not re-appear in Europe until the 16th-17- century. Might not the same have occurred much earlier?

So where did these people go? They scattered (the survivors that is) and brought some of their know-how with them after their own society was destroyed. The most likely culprit for that destruction? A localized, but highly destructive rapid flood that took out their most important cities. Atlantis, Noah's flood, Gilgamesh... I think they are all relating to the same event.

My two cents... (I love this stuff)


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Cody
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Posted by: @gaius-konstantine

I think history is far older than we think

I tend to agree. Some 'alternative' histories intrigue me, and I find some 'accepted' history hard to swallow. Was Troy located where the scholars like to say it was? I wonder about that. It's supposed location (in what is now Turkey) just doesn't fit, and it certainly wasn't Greeks who laid siege to it (if anyone actually did). One alternative history (now ridiculed by scholars, but again I wonder) places Troy in the Gog Magog hills of England. However, there are some very interesting ancient sites in Turkey, Göbekli Tepe being a prime example.

Ancient tech is another thing - the Antikythera mechanism gives a glimpse of what was being developed BCE.

Posted by: @gaius-konstantine

Atlantis, Noah's flood, Gilgamesh... I think they are all relating to the same event.

Yep! Whether that be the flooding of the Black Sea basin, or indeed the flooding of the entire Mediterranean basin.

 

 

<worships at the shrine of the Caffeine Goddess>

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I too tend to think history is lot older than the historians say it is but I don't believe in any ancient super civilization, like Atlantis but every legend has a grain of truth and what Plato may have been referring to is the Thera eruption in Greece which destroyed the Minoan civilization and then he just added other bit to make a good story.

The Bagdad battery is another example of some thing which does not fit in to the established time line and the Greeks knew about steam power but were unable to make use of it. 

I did read a few years ago that for every thing we know about ancient history we still only know about 10 percent of what actually happened in the past. 


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Gaius Konstantine
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Posted by: @cody

Yep! Whether that be the flooding of the Black Sea basin, or indeed the flooding of the entire Mediterranean basin.

My thought as well. The Black sea in particular was a fresh water lake, a location in other words that was prime real-estate for coastal early cities as they would have had an abundance of water. Some models I've seen, indicate that when the Younger Dryas ended, and sea levels gradually began to rise, enormous pressure was put on the Bosporus land bridge. Once that cracked, the Black sea could have been flooded withing three days! 

I then wonder about my own people, (the myth of Deucalion and Pyrrha), they may not be native to the peninsula they inhabit now, that was the home of the Pelasgians whom Herodotus wrote of as a separate people, were they also from the areas affected by the flood? This passage below I find intriguing. 

As for the Hellenes, it seems obvious to me that ever since they came into existence they have always used the same language. They were weak at first, when they were separated from the Pelasgians, but they grew from a small group into a multitude, especially when many peoples, including other barbarians in great numbers, had joined them. Moreover, I do not think the Pelasgian, who remained barbarians, ever grew appreciably in number or power.

Alas, until one of you build a functional time machine, we shall remain curious. 

Posted by: @pinback

but I don't believe in any ancient super civilization,

It would not have to have been a super civilization, just advanced enough in relation to its peers. Let me put it this way, If you or I were transported back in time, say 2,000 years ago, but without any modern tools or devices (just the clothes on our backs), could we impact the societies back then? The answer is yes. We could introduce the stirrup centuries ahead of time and give Cavalry an unheard of edge in shock combat. We could teach them to aim a bow by pulling the string to the ear instead of the chest and offer archers that could outdistance and out-shoot their contemporaries. We could offer drill on infantry tactics centuries ahead of its time. For a while, until others caught on, we would be unstoppable.

But lest you think I'm a warmonger, we could teach them to wash their hands before delivering a child and reduce infant mortality dramatically for the time, (yes many died from bacterial infections brought about by being handled by unclean hands). We could introduce crop rotation and reduce the chance of famine. This my friend would be you and I alone, with no tools, simply because we know some basic things that they did not yet. It is this type of society, one that knew that hot air rises and could build balloons, one that understood mathematics and its applications that most probably existed. No laser beams and nukes, just a bit of extra knowledge accumulated as a result of the fact that they congregated into cities much sooner than others.


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Cody
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Posted by: @pinback

what Plato may have been referring to is the Thera eruption

That was one massive eruption, bigger than Krakatoa.

Posted by: @gaius-konstantine

The Black sea in particular was a fresh water lake

Yes, there must be some interesting archaeology buried in the seabed.

Posted by: @gaius-konstantine

Alas, until one of you build a functional time machine, we shall remain curious.

You've got a one-shot time machine - pick an era!

This post was modified 2 years ago by Cody

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Pinback
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Posted by: @cody
 
You've got a one-shot time machine - pick an era!

Rome about AD100.

That flood myth could be a lot older, IIRC it's common theme to a lot of ancient civilization around the world and could be some sort memory of the end of the ice age.

Any civilization or power that has an edge over it's rivals will always have an advantage, weather that be in the past or in the present, but I think it's highly unlikely that their was one globe spanning ancient civilization as suggested by the film. Using Pyramids as connection is a bit thin as they are common to a lot of ancient civilization around the world. the first emperor of China was buried in one and for thousands of year people thought it was a mountain.

        

 


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Geraldine
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@pinback

Perhaps, but don't you notice that many civic buildings around the world today have a greco-roman architecture theme to them? These ape the constructions of Greece and the Roman Empire, two civilizations that had an impact on the modern world? Perhaps it was the same thing with ancient China, aping the culture that was the most advanced, from their point of view, a bygone age; the Egyptians?

Sid Meier was perhaps right all along! 😀 

Civ1

@cody "You've got a one-shot time machine - pick an era!"

Ok Cody, you asked for it, time to take a step beyond!

Don't need no era, just a year, 1967. I'd grab my Amiga 1200 and take it with me along with some important "disks". Track down Jay Miner and give it to him to reverse engineer it with strict instructions to track down Jack Tramiel for financial backing and never ever to allow anyone called Mehdi Ali anywhere near him and any company he builds with Jack.

01 jayminer

Once he had built a few prototypes, would take him upto the early 1970s I would think, I'd take one then go track down a very young David Braben and Ian Bell. Give the prototype Amiga to them, along with some disk copies of Elite 1 and 2.

Result: Elite 1 and 2 come out in the early 80s. The whole world, since 1975ish, is using Amigas. NASA and the Russian Space Agency would have cooperated with each other to established a proper moon base by 1999 and we would have a smaller base on Mars by now too. The world would generally be more advanced and no more stupid wars would take place.

eagle space 1999

Me? I'd be long dead by now, likely because of "over indulging" at a Andy Warhol party sometime in the late 70s. 🤪

 

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by Geraldine

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Gaius Konstantine
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Posted by: @geraldine

The world would generally be more advanced and no more stupid wars would take place.

Or... we would be blowing each other up with cooler toys. I'm afraid you can change the technology and timeline... but you can't take the predator out of humankind. 

Posted by: @cody

You've got a one-shot time machine - pick an era

Ok, this actually stumped me, what to do and where to go? Ideally I would like to go back far enough to answer some questions... but the possibility of winding up among some barely sentient troglodytes makes me think it will have to be more "recent"

431 B.C. Athens.


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Geraldine
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@gaius-konstantine

You missed the bit about me also taking along some important "disks". The data they would contain could serve to "encourage" those two super powers back then to realise they were just wasting precious resources on the Cold War. Cooperative policies towards each other instead would give both of them so much more power and influence throughout the world without the need to go kill people or stockpile massive amounts of weapons. This would help stifle the more conservative and hardline elements in both their governments. Once the super powers were onboard with it, the rest of the world would then soon follow. In effect, I'd attempt to steer them down a path of a higher technology future that would be more economically profitable and peaceful. A world that would benefit everyone including their own peoples. Have I earned that time machine ticket yet Cody? 🙄 

 

Oh! One last thing I forgot to mention, I'd also be "networking" too, inbetween taking care of "the Big Stuff", meaning, I'd get to know folk who could be useful influences back then to help things along, including the "Big Stuff". I have to say tho, Janis Joplin, Brian Jones, John Bonham and Jimi Hendrix, might catch a wee bit of flack on Twitter tho for egging me on to my demise at that late 70s Andy Warhol party but, everyone's gotta go at some time, so that ending would do me fine enough. Besides, it would underline to them to look after themselves a good bit better in the future, a future all you folks out there would be enjoying right now. 😎 

This post was modified 2 years ago by Geraldine

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Pinback
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Posted by: @geraldine

Once he had built a few prototypes, would take him upto the early 1970s I would think, I'd take one then go track down a very young David Braben and Ian Bell. Give the prototype Amiga to them, along with some disk copies of Elite 1 and 2.

 

So Braben would not spend seven years or so writing Frontier and we might see First Encounter on the Amiga. 😀 


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Geraldine
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@pinback

Exactly Pinback! 😉 

That omission vexes me to this very day! Mind you, on reflection on how rushed it was to publishing, maybe it was a good thing. Thankfully tho, we have Andy J these days to finally turn FFE into the game it should have always been. Still miss that Amiga version tho. 😔 


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Cody
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Posted by: @gaius-konstantine

431 B.C. Athens.

An interesting time, certainly - siege of Athens, yes? If I was thinking of ancient Greece, I'd rather fancy sitting on a clifftop, watching the Battle of Salamis unfold. But I've long had an interest in the Scythians and their nomadic culture.

Somewhere near the northern shore of the Caspian Sea, say 500 BCE or thereabouts.

Oolite Naval Attaché


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Gaius Konstantine
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Posted by: @cody

An interesting time, certainly - siege of Athens, yes?

Not quite. This would be the very start of the conflict, and perhaps allow me to change its course (I would be way too tempted to do that, both by using the knowledge of events that hadn't transpired yet, and by introducing some "innovations"). But there is more to it than that. That particular time would mean that many legends and myths were only hundreds of years old versus thousands, it would allow me to do some research. In addition, I could hop over to Egypt as well, before their accumulated knowledge was destroyed, more research. It just seems that the time would be a good compromise between going back far enough to learn things that are difficult to do now, and influencing events...hopefully for the better.

The problem then would be to preserve the findings, perhaps I could leave behind a clue, and you guys would be digging up a piece of machinery that couldn't possibly exist at the time...


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Geraldine
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Well, I must say I am happy with this total de-railment of the thread. Cody, as usual, being the chief culprit! 😆 

He did pose an interesting question tho which is thrown up some even more interesting answers! Both Pinback & Gaius Konstantine picked ancient time periods while I went for something a lot closer to us in the here and now. But what of Cody? You posed this question but what about your answer? 🤨 


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Cody
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Posted by: @geraldine

Have I earned that time machine ticket yet Cody?

<packs a suitably-attired Geraldine off to Haight-Ashbury and the Summer of Love>

Posted by: @gaius-konstantine

I would be way too tempted to do that, both by using the knowledge of events that hadn't transpired yet, and by introducing some "innovations"

Yeah, whether to be passive or active. One would probably have no choice but to be active.

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Cody
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Posted by: @geraldine

Well, I must say I am happy with this total de-railment of the thread. Cody, as usual, being the chief culprit! 

 But what of Cody? You posed this question but what about your answer?

Guilty as charged!

Posted by: @cody

Somewhere near the northern shore of the Caspian Sea, say 500 BCE or thereabouts.

 

 

Oolite Naval Attaché


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Geraldine
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@gaius-konstantine

Gaius, on you preserving your Odyssey for posterity, let me give you a bit of advice that comes from an unlikely source...

From " I Claudius " 1976.

This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by Geraldine

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Geraldine
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Posted by: @cody

Somewhere near the northern shore of the Caspian Sea, say 500 BCE or thereabouts.

 

 

Ok, I got that, but would you engage with your surroundings, influence them even, or be a passive observer, watching how things unfolded?


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Cody
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Posted by: @geraldine

would you engage with your surroundings, influence them even, or be a passive observer, watching how things unfolded?

The temptation to "engage" would probably be irresistible, and possibly necessary in order to survive.

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Geraldine
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@cody

I agree since back then many fledgling societies were prone at times to take extreme, and what might be regarded as barbaric, actions. The world has always been a place where danger can lurk, even today, but back in those days it could especially be up close and personal as, although the stakes were smaller by today's standards, they were also much more localised and immediate in their effects. The ancient world was a place you always had to be on your guard or, in other words, just like King Herod said there in that video clip.


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Cody
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For Pinback, Gaius, and myself, all back there in the mists of time, this comes to mind:

There's a flying saucer on the album cover art, so back on topic - kinda!

This post was modified 2 years ago by Cody

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Pinback
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Posted by: @geraldine

The ancient world was a place you always had to be on your guard or, in other words, just like King Herod said there in that video clip.

I think that's the reason they had so many gods as you never knew what was going to happen.


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