Combat, is it me or...

[Loki999]

You should get an indicator in the top right of your screen showing how much shields and hull your opponent has... if you have the ermm.... forget what it is called. If you can't spare the cargo space for it, yeah, that's probably not going to help.

[Brianetta]

Radar mapper.You can see shields - there's a translucent sphere around a ship with damaged shields, with the colour varying from green through yellow to red depending on its strength.

[Bugbear]

Fair enough, then. That's kind of encouraging that I was able to last as long as I did.Either way, though, the outcome would have meant game over for me. I wasn't able to outrun the Courier either, which is why I suggested the jettison documents option. But, hey, the Pioneer universe is a tough place.I did come up with another idea overnight - a deathmatch option as a starting point.Player starts in open space, perhaps above a planet with lots of canyons (so the player can dive down to the surface and lure the opponent into crashing themselves..)An enemy ship is spawned just beyond radar maximum range (that's about 100km if I'm not mistaken), and is scripted to attack the player.In order to give a sense of progression, the first ship is identical to the player, but the computer is configured to only use 10% thrust in all directions. Hopefully this would make the target easy to hit for a novice.Subsequent opponents increase their maximum thrust until the player is destroyed. Once the opponent reaches 100% thrust, faster ships are sent against the player, or perhaps multiple, identical ships to the player are sent.

[Bugbear]

And another thing - sending a Courier to intercept a package delivery worth $1500? Seems a bit of overkill to me...My customer must have some seriously powerful enemies.

[Brianetta]

The package could be worth a lot more. Don't confuse the cost of your services with the value of their property.

[Loki999]

I'd say the strangest thing is sending an Imp. Courier to intercept an ELRF... doesn't the ELRF have much higher thrust than the IC? Even if the IC is lying in wait (which considering not likely since would have to follow to be sure of intercepting - no FTL comms exist AFAIK), then assuming the ELRF can avoid the initial fire, they could just run. The IC couldn't follow because it would arrive in the target system days later.What should be happening is several light high thrust craft are dispatched to follow, monitor the jump coordinates, hyperspace and wait (being smaller and lighter they would get to the target system first), and then be in position to open a volley of blasts at the exit point at the exact moment the ELRF emerges. Or better still, mines or missiles waiting.Of course, that wouldn't be fun for players to find themselves destroyed the moment they exit hyperspace... but more logical.

[Bugbear]

'Loki999' wrote:
I'd say the strangest thing is sending an Imp. Courier to intercept an ELRF... doesn't the ELRF have much higher thrust than the IC? Even if the IC is lying in wait (which considering not likely since would have to follow to be sure of intercepting - no FTL comms exist AFAIK), then assuming the ELRF can avoid the initial fire, they could just run. The IC couldn't follow because it would arrive in the target system days later.
I should add that my ELRF has a Class 2 hyperdrive, so when I'm empty, I only have 4T free space. Meaning that it's quite reasonable for my maximum acceleration to be less than that of a stock standard Courier. Hmmm I need to reconsider the benefits of the bigger hyperdrive. Everything is a tradeoff when you're starting out.Maybe I should reconsider an initial career in trading rather than as a courier.
'Loki999' wrote:
What should be happening is several light high thrust craft are dispatched to follow, monitor the jump coordinates, hyperspace and wait (being smaller and lighter they would get to the target system first), and then be in position to open a volley of blasts at the exit point at the exact moment the ELRF emerges. Or better still, mines or missiles waiting.Of course, that wouldn't be fun for players to find themselves destroyed the moment they exit hyperspace... but more logical.
It all depends on the level of internal consistency that you want. I see no problems with a witchpoint ambush...(there's my Oolite heritage showing...).

[NeuralKernel]

I think we need some more variety in combat, some "dirty tricks" and "equalizer" devices to make light fighters as viable in combat as heavy cruisers.I'd say a "Rock, Paper, Scissors" approach to designing the combat system would give enough diversity to keep things interesting while keeping things simple enough to work with.Off the top of my head I think there should be 3 aspects to combat... structural integrity, heat management and Electronic Warfare.They're all already present in the game, they just need to be tweaked and fitted together to get combat nicely balanced <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />So... an ELRF loaded down with advanced ECM and coolant systems could make a missile boat explode on launch... a Gunship could cut an EW craft to pieces in close quarters and a missile boat can pick off a gunship from the other side of a moon...

[walterar]

Pioneer missions, in the present state, are only examples of the minimum that can be done. You can "customize" easily with a text editor. The ships "pirates" can be defined to your liking. Type of ship, weapons, shields, distance that "appear", how many "appear", etc.

[Bugbear]

A quick note - I had my first kill last night. Yay!Ok, to achieve this, I had to Ctrl-M cheat myself some cash, the purchased a shiny new Constrictor, loaded it up with a 4MW laser, a shield generator, then went assassinating.The dogfight took about 10min, the mark also had shields and they weren't afraid to fight back (although I suspect I could outmaneouver them so they had little choice).All this tells me that in the hands of a novice, the makers of Eagle Long Range Fighter should be sued for false advertising - shie ain't no fighter. There's simply not enough cargo space to pack in the necessary equipment to make it a viable combatant.It also begs the question - if this ship was bequeathed to me by my late grandfather, what the hell did I do to him for him to all but sign my death warrant by putting me in an inadequate ship???? <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_biggrin.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-D' />A tip for the Jamesons out there - the ERLF is no fighter. Stick to the low risk package deliveries or simple trading and save up for something more capable.

[Loki999]

The ELRF would be a good ship to go assassinating in packs. Stand alone, they would be no match for any competent mark.

[Brianetta]

Eagle's fine. Carry missiles.

[NeuralKernel]

I cheated myself a good heavy fighter (Sirius Interdictor, I think), flew out to deep space and cheated up an enemy fighter...He ran after exchanging a few shots so I gave chase and just because I was feeling curious got up REAL close (less than a hundred meters) to see how the game works for close quarters combat... my cannon wouldn't hit the ship!!! I was on target, point blank and had the crosshairs right over the lead point.. which was right over the ship because I made sure our lateral vectors were lined up.Zap... nothing... zap again... nothing... so I say "screw this" and open up full auto with the cannon and THAT finally starts registering hits and the ship was promptly vaporized <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_biggrin.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />Is there a glitch with close range shots or is it just me? I'm running one of the nightlies and loving the manual attitude controls, BTW... made the dogfight a lot easier actually <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Bugbear]

'Brianetta' wrote:
Eagle's fine. Carry missiles.
Don't get me wrong. I think it is a good thing that the starting ship is...... (how can I say this diplomatically) ......the way it is. It is a good object lesson for the player to learn to use the right tool for the job.An Eagle with a Class 2 hyperdrive can easily meet deadlines for most of the low risk package deliveries. In that configuration, you're essentially turning the ship into an express courier. There's basically enough room left over for 4-5T of H2 fuel and a 2MW laser.Now I'm curious to see what I can do if I trade back down to the Class 1 hyperdrive. I'll be able to carry more equipment and possibly begin exploring trade routes, but I wonder if I'll turn the same level of profit per trip as I've been able to do with the package runs.Whoops...don't let me hijack this thread...(again showing some Oolite heritage. Oolite forum denizens will know what I mean)

[fluffyfreak]

@BugBear,hijack away this thread is for combat discussions <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Brianetta]

Bugbear: Consider a military drive (and joining the fuel club).

[NeuralKernel]

Instead of "turrets" is there an easy way to make the weapons just track the cursor instead of fixed forward/back to represent some limited independent aiming? If you combined that with a way to automatically point your nose towards the target (Combat Autopilot? Battle Computer? CIWS?) you would have a good mouse+WASD combat interface allowing both precise fire and evasive manoeuvring.I still want a good 'scope and some control over the detonation of my warheads, too <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Actually, I've been thinking, a mini "zoom window" over the cursor to represent long range sensors would make a lot of sense, not just for fighting but also for checking out planets in unexplored systems without having to fly all the way over...Maybe a "tactical view" in the F2 menus is what I'm looking for...

[fluffyfreak]

'NeuralKernel' wrote:
I cheated myself a good heavy fighter (Sirius Interdictor, I think), flew out to deep space and cheated up an enemy fighter...He ran after exchanging a few shots so I gave chase and just because I was feeling curious got up REAL close (less than a hundred meters) to see how the game works for close quarters combat... my cannon wouldn't hit the ship!!! I was on target, point blank and had the crosshairs right over the lead point.. which was right over the ship because I made sure our lateral vectors were lined up.Zap... nothing... zap again... nothing... so I say "screw this" and open up full auto with the cannon and THAT finally starts registering hits and the ship was promptly vaporized <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_biggrin.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />Is there a glitch with close range shots or is it just me? I'm running one of the nightlies and loving the manual attitude controls, BTW... made the dogfight a lot easier actually <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
When you say you finally "open up full auto" had you moved away before doing that?It sounds like a bit of a bug in the collision code. I noticed recently whilst working on a spacestation that if I hid amongst the sub units of the station I had built then the police couldn't shoot me, even though the laser went through my ship. Might be related to the distance of your two ships since the game probably isn't expecting you to get close enough to knock on the door <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Andy