Is billions of star systems really necessary?

[sscadmin]

ObamaBangYoMama wrote:
I could easily see myself taking off and just exploring for 6 months, or getting far away enough from others to build some crazy inpenetrable fortress of a system in which to run operations from.
That is my whole reason to play Infinity when it comes out is the exploration. And I two wanted to build a outpost (hehe SpaceSimCentral) that players can visit and hang out at. But might not get too many players depending on how vast the universe is.
ObamaBangYoMama wrote:
Granted that during exploration, as someone else mentioned, you run the risk of running into something harsh like the borg or something.
According to the dev team there is no alien life in Infinity.... least right now. So anyone that you will run into out there will be the long haulers and explorers (all human).

[Rith]

Darkone wrote:
And I two wanted to build a outpost (hehe SpaceSimCentral) that players can visit and hang out at. But might not get too many players depending on how vast the universe is.
And I can pose as a lowly supplies trader to the SpaceSimCentral, silently pirating any lone players I come across. Missiles away!

[sscadmin]

Guess I am going to have to hire some merc's to those pesky pirates away, unless I can equip the station with some sweet firepower. It will definitely be interesting to see what we will be able to do in this game and how open it will be.

[Straker]

Q: Is billions of star systems really necessary?A: Yes. I enjoy the idea of getting lost in a sizeable universe. (kinda like a toddler let loose in a playground that's a 1000 miles square)

[Jabberwocky]

It's relatively easy for any game that uses procedural content generation to make these kind of "billions of star systems" claims. The real question is how different are they from one another? That's the question you need to ask. If they all start to look the same after visiting a few different systems, then who cares? But if there's actual differences (both graphically and game-play), then agreed, it's a cool feature.Although practically, 200 billion isn't any different than 1 billion, or even 10 million. Any of those numbers is more than you (and maybe even a server full of people) could ever see in a lifetime of playing the game. It just sounds cooler, I guess.

[RedChico]

Well Jabberwocky, rest assured the mathematical equations for procedural creating star systems will as long as your arm full of diferent parameters and other stuff.

[Blackthorne]

So, they're at billions of star systems by now. Even for a MMO, think that this is overly ambitious. Then again, I consider Infinity to be overly ambitious, something that might easily spell it's downfall. One problem with that amount of space in a persistent universe is the hardware required to handle it. Yes, it's procedurally generated, but if half the features they have planned are implemented, quite a few of those systems will be given an extensive makeover by the players, increasing the amount of data associated with each system.From a gameplay point of view, it's iffy at best - while I hate unconsensual PVP, it IS a selling point for a lot of people, and given the sheer amount of space, you're unlikely to have much success stalking players - with a generous playerbase estimation of maybe 300K players, there's still more than half a million systems per player in the game. While I'm pretty sure that some systems will be fuller than others, that's still akin to finding a needle in a haystack. As a matter of fact, the game might be more of a solo experience, despite having 300K+ players on on server. You're pretty unlikely to encounter anybody once you head out. The next "problem" (I don't have any problem with this fact, but others definitely will) is that everywhere will look pretty much the same. The systems are procedurally generated, and due to the sheer numbers involved, systems will likely resemble each other - don't expect amazing and wonderous sights. After the 20th binary system you'll likely have a far more prosaic approach to the next one you find. "Suns, 2, one red, one white. Planets, 4. 1 terrestrial, mainly blueish vegetation. Only common resources. 1 gas giant. Guess I'll use that to refuel and check the next system.""Suns, one, yellow. Planets, 3. Traces of former habitation. Someone named the terrestial planet "Yermomsmells" and built a station there. According to scanners, no jump drive activity within the last 4 months of realtime."The whole place will have a "been there, done that"-feeling once you've seen your share of systems. EVE has pretty much the same problems (space looks pretty much the same everywhere, despite the color variations), but has chokepoints built into it and is generally rather small - the game encourages turf wars on various scales. Whether or not this is your cup of tea remains disputable, but it does force the players to interact in one way or another. Infinity, however, is unlikely have those chokepoints if it intends to keep this number of systems. In a way, the idea sounds great. There is enough space for everyone, and whole empires might form in the great void. On the downside, it's unlikely that anybody will find or care too much about these empires. Due to the vastness of the playing field and the tendencies of today's players, you're more likely to find fortified systems that are capable of producing ships and equipment, and the owners of said systems who will go to extreme lengths to get something to shoot at. The next issue will be keeping the player busy. So you have all of those wonderful systems. How can you interact with them? What kind of challenge will they provide to a player when no other players are around? Will interacting with them be fun at all?One of the main complaints about sandbox games is that there is nothing to do. (I strongly disagree with that, since it's about setting your own goals instead of following the theme park ride, but I agree that getting thrown into deep water and being told "just swim already!" is intimidating.) You need to provide common goals in order to get the players to cooperate, and still make being a lone wolf trader/mercenary an option. Which is infinitely harder to do in a sandbox than in a theme park MMO, where you just need to dangle some shinies and tell the players that they'll need a tank, a healer and some damage dealers to get said shinies.Some AI ships could spice exploration up a bit. Yet overdo that and basically require the players to form throngs of 40+ ships in order to make it somewhere alive and in one pice, and you've basically generated all that space for nothing, since only a handfull of your playerbase will ever get to see it. You need to keep all the players busy. Busy enough to keep them coming month after month, with this being a MMO. A big empty space won't do the trick, not at all. It's an interesting starting point, however.Right now, Infinity is busy with getting the universe to run. I wish they'd put more thoughts into getting the game behind it to be fun as well.-Blackthorne

[yamo]

Blackthorne wrote:
Then again, I consider Infinity to be overly ambitious, something that might easily spell it's downfall. -Blackthorne
Best line...ever!

[Cyrusblack]

this is quite facinating, whats the status of this game?

[sscadmin]

It's been pretty silent since the Infinity folks came out with that video a few months back.

[Cyrusblack]

semi vapor ware or just taking a while to form up (IE coding is tedious and boring)

[Pinback]

I got the impression that they were trying to form a more professional development studio to make the game or licence out the game engine.

[ollobrain]

a few updates follow kieth innovae on twitterthey have setup a professional company and now have 8 staff on theri booksThey have funding ( all hush hush) being provided by a fairly large game studio to get this game to beta statusSo the engine now is licensed has millions being backed behind it and keith and co are working on the gameLatest video a few days ago shows as direct X 11 planet graphics game engine my mouth was watering. And other aspects of the game are coming along strongly

[Pinback]

Good to hear they have started again hopefully we will be getting some more news from them.

[sscadmin]

Yeah the terrain engine looks great so far and hope eventually we could see some weather effects and vegetation/life on some of these planets.

[Dalkeith]

If you make exploring suitably dangerous despite the size the area inhabited by people will be much more manageable.Faced with danger people tend to congregate together I think its' one of the great things about eve when you head out you are genuinely nervous.Would be great to have a similar sense of danger in Infinity.If a billion star systems comes with no cost I'd say go for it otherwise 5,000 would still probably blow your mind.

[Straker]

hehe,If you guys think a billion stars is annoying. You don't want to know about Limit Theories setup then, as it truly is infinte. It never ends...

[Geraldine]

Hi StrakerNice to see you posting again, and yes LT (I've backed it), I wonder what Frontier Developments thinks about it. Star Citizen wasn't direct competition for Elite IV, but LT does seem to be. Led by a bright young man with big ideas, sounds just like David Braben himself back in the 80s.I've said this before and will say it again, this is a great time to be a space sim fan! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//girl_crazy.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':girlcrazy:' />

[DARI]

... wish i had 200 billion seconds time left for my life...(on second thought iam not really sure..)back to topic - although iam a fan of large - open sand box style games - with no apparent boundariesi still like being able to remember where i have been in a game (especially useful for traderoute calculations, returning to that weaponsdealer once you have enough credits, and hunting for the next big ship)and this is usually less compatible with procedural generated content that would be needed to generate 5+digit numbers of star systemsTry being a completionist playing the Discovery mod for Freelancer - there is "only" a 3 digit number of systems - but most especially the vanilla systems are very memorable.After some long journey or exploration when you get back to the core systems - you have almost that "finally back at home" feeling.Generating lots of starsystems thats so old - frontier already did that for the extreme - if you zoomed out of the galaxy map really far enough you could see more galaxies (though i dont know if they were just mirror images)Would like to see generated space ships / stations / infrastructure that wont look like random triangles and at least the ships should be buyable. (Thats right i really mean the models and according stats)

[Gen]

Well if it cost nothing why not. But it still stands.Also there noting wrong with artificial wall. Especialy if gamers can't reach them. Or doesn't interfere with normal gameplay. It just reduce a lot of extra work that has not much value to the game. That why there are artifical walls.A bad example of artificial wall would be GRAW. A fps shooter in a town where you aren't able to flank from the next streets. That is a wall gamers collide on. A example wich solve this is the way you hop from mission to mission in crysis. Lot of freedom to flank. And a bit more freedom then you realy need.Games where flankin is a tacktic as part of the gameplay. The play field just need room to flank.A example of your galactic overkill is. Having Farcry2 with a play field as large as whole earth. reduce to whole africa.Overkill a bit reduced is still overkill. No much colliding of gamers with that artifical wall.Beside in space the fastness off space just act like a natural wall of nothing. Compared to mountains and Ocean's.In X3 the universe map is abstract restricted and simplefied. That wil do for bulk of gameplay it offers.But each sector it just seams you can go on and on in a direction. There isn't much value in that. As game engine you could set a artifical wall if you travel for a month real game time in a direction. But then again wich gamer would do.The question is. "Is it necessary?" The game does not have 200 billion star systems, it has the capability to produce 200 billion star systems. All that it means is that if you go in one direction and keep going, when you reach the end of known space the game will keep generating more content for you. Seeing as the original area was generated on the same procedural engine, it's impossible that beyond that space there would be any space that was any more or less interesting, minus the players. In this respect, its a bit like minecraft but on a interplanetary level. Personally, I think the devs haven't released any content in a LONG time and that's pretty telling though.