SpaceSimCentral

hi, folks, "the angry cat" is back <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />no, i can't say a word about alpha27...but i have to give some praises for alpha26, or to say it right for some enhancements i had to find out myself.that's mainly this onecool that you've solved the texture islands problem, this allows now things like this little hut in front, each brick is textured sole on a smoothened surface, that's great news and i missed a notification <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> i only noticed it occasionally.second cool new thing of alpha26, even not reported is the possibility to use now 8bit textures, i like it, i was asking for long ago and i think it's really a enhancement.yes it lowers the depth of the textures and one could think they would look less good, but in fact it's vice versa most will get crispier, it will give some problems for some textures, because i never respected 8bit depth, whatfor you should keep the texture best tone in tone.nonetheless it's convincing.now for some or at least one small dislike, of which i'm not sure how long it is actually that ways, but hmm it's annoying.now when you look at this picture do you notice that is something wrong? it's that the buildings are lt now from view angle instead real lightsource direction, i know buildings lit from underneath at night are neither realistic, but this is worse imo, sometimes they really start to "glow" and it looks.... well i spare this word out here.i'm not sure what was the idea behind but.. hä-äh (no no), this looks worse even when they are properly unlit at night, sorry.im not sure if there is a proper solution to get real night shade, if not i would stay to what we had, this is not good, imo.yes, i noticed you're up to change the shaders, ok then please keep this in mind, thanks in advance.but apart from that, i'm satisfied much.to the case of the small alpha27 hit, if i where you i would promise to fix it next alpha, i'm sure your's are buisy enough and personally i feel to wait a month, respectively to play one month the last working release won't hurt. (on the other hand if it burns under your fingernails, i understand, i know this feeling well)or does it folks?not really no?just to show off my opinion to that, that's all,thanks anyway.besides i would have more ideas, but hmm, somehow i got a little insecure to show off all my thoughts... sorry.

<waves at 'the angry cat'>

ahh, rolling thunder again... love, peace and harmony!actually i listen to "Azteca" (santana#1 without santana)"... you can't be funky, boy, no, you tried to, but you can't be funky..."---i'm really grateful for the mods folder, it was one of the best ideas that have been released.also i'm very happy about the decision to identify ships by the models name, all this opens many doors.as example, few years ago Tomm asked me if i couldn't think of a better idea as to select the different versions dynamic.well i could have, but two conditions was missing, first my skill with LUA, second, i would have need exactly this, ships get called by the models name and not by the "shipname". i've changed already some to that new possibility. i.e. "Coolhands Viper". in fact i have 5 models now, but all appear under the name (except for the police viper) "Viper Defense Craft".that's super! superfine! great! and i don't know what superlativefurther the "Heavywear" version could be made less good or reliable in specifications, but you won't notice except by experience, that's even a fantastic possibility it opens also some doors.i'm up already, that's why i'm so busy, to change all, pilots will lose dynamic selection, ships will loose dynamic selection, but it's a lot of work to do so.in the end i guess we can get rid of the selector function i wrote once and use only some random selections for materials, this doesn't harms so much as exchanging models, textures or geometry randomly.for the pilots i'm up to make all static, what i have in mind is you select once a "character", i.e. "i like the redhaired woman with the green dress as pilot" and this decision will change the rest, not randomly only by "shifting positions" in a table.actually it depends on a little table where you enter your choices, but i hope one day it could be implemented to the game? together with a faction you choose or whatever decision you made for your pilots character.calling of the pilot isn't longer a model, it's a little function where you simply specify a additional index, and a style fitting to the ship (helmet, no helmet, etc)i guess some will like what i did, but it's still under construction...it works in my setup of pioneer, it will as mod together with my ships, but it's far from being perfect.it's still a bit lumpy now and actually all "single" pilots will have the same character as your preselected style/character.on the other hand, you won't often look so close on a opposite "eagle" to notice this for real.but anyway i would like to determine once if the ship is flight by AI or player, just to solve this little issue.busy, really busy... textures have to be combined models new scripted... uff!and all has started because marcel wasn't satisfied with the "vanishing" thrusters on the courier <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />now every model needs to be revisited and if i do so i will do it right! right? right!"wirklich ich versuche meine hausaufagaben gut zu machen, jungs"in other words i have set my models on a diet.---oh yes, let me know your thoughts to that shader problem i showed in the previous post, personally i strongly dislike the "glowing" buildings.they look totally "flat" now due to this sort of "environmental lighting".it's to wish that they will not receive light from the opposite side at night, but if such is the only solution, i would keep my hands off it.better they are lit "wrong" from the underside at night as if they start to "glow" at daytime and have no shading.first i really was wondering why everything looks so flat, then i noticed, "hey they aren't shaded anymore, lit always from all sides or at least always from view direction".a "mix" i mean some "quasi environmental" lighting will be ok, but i guess as long as we can't say "it's night they should be all dark - it's daytime all should receive light from direction of lightsource" i prefere the former situation when they received light even at night from direction of the lightsource.(of course it's annoying to have "wrong" lit buildings at night, something it has always annoyed me in FE2 or FFE, personally i worked around this in FFED3D around this for at least the floors or streets by removing simply the normals, in FFED3D this works halfaways, means the roads are then unlit always as example, or in other words unshaded like the buildings now are in pioneer, i did this also because in FFED3D you have only a glossy material and glossy ground or streets look stupid. but to remove the lighting from all buildings i would have never done.)but let's say i uttered this in advance, because i noticed robn stated he's up to rewrite the shaders.

Hi everyone... sorry I've been away for a bit... crazy stuff happening lately here!Just grabbed v27 here and it works great! My desktop runs the win32 version in WINE beautifully and my laptop runs it (same setup) OK if you aren't too near a planet.Not much progress with my ship models lately, but I've had a few more half baked ideas I'd like to play with once I get things set up here on my laptop <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

you made some models?show off, please!don't feel ashame, everybody knows i don't criticise modeler skills(critics are ok. as long as you get profit of it, but only to demoralise one is evil).because i feel everyone has it's own style and ideas and to me this counts much more as skill or experience.further, if you have question to the quite complicated LUA stuff, feel free to ask me, i should be able to help you a little bit with that.because i know animating things proper is for most a sealed book, but it isn't as hard as it seems in the beginning, you just have to follow a few principles.looks like we got quite good reception this year, i like that.wait...you use a MAC?why don't run the MAC version, i know it works with wine, but???hint: lower city details, that helps still best to save framerate.if you don't mind to much about cities anyway, i recommend to revive Tomm's original buildings.tell me if you don't know how, then i pack this in a mod which will simply override the installed buildings and leaves only the basic ones.also what is actually running uses still textures even for LOD1 and this is still a killer.it helps much to have no textures for LOD1 and for (many) buildings it's possible to shift LOD1 slightly to a visible size without noticing a real difference.simplified said: grey is just grey from far.

Cool, I've actually got some far more extreme ideas I'd like to explore... but yeah, in the meantime maybe a mod pack for low powered machines (desktop is a core 2 duo with an older but still powerful Nvidia card, laptop is AMD with ATI graphics) would make sense. I'll try to figure it out myself first, and see if I can get a few more models presentable, too! Things are still pretty crazy here and I won't be able to get much done for a bit, though :/And no I don't use a Mac, I've got Ubuntu 12.04 on all my x86 machines, and a diverse mix of linux systems on my various ARM and MIPS machines <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I If there is a decent deb package floating around it would be nice, and I'll eventually just grab the source and compile it myself. I've been just running the win32 version in WINE all along, it runs without a problem, though my laptop's ATI driver has a few general issues in Linux. My desktop runs it great in both Vista and stock WINE under ubuntu 12.04, the newest one runs smoother and looks better than v26! Honestly I'm impressed it runs as well as it does on my laptop <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

my dear friends, and i do mean my dear friends without sarcasm.
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-- Copyright © 2008-2012 Pioneer Developers. See AUTHORS.txt for details-- Licensed under the terms of CC-BY-SA 3.0. See licenses/CC-BY-SA-3.0.txt
in case for my transscriptions of the FE2 geometry this goes a little to far i guess, else i have no problem with that.but these ships are so close to the original, some even use absolutely the same vectors, they don't look the same they are like twins.just like a Honda motorcycle in the past, you could have exchanged any screw with a BMW motorcycle.this would be,- the eagle(s)- the sidewinder- the constrictor (even when this are wavefront meshes, but the original geometry i made was also a transscription)- the interplanetary shuttlevice versa i would disclaim that we used them with "implicit permission of Frontier dev."they know my ships, they feel comfortable with the transscriptions, but they didn't belong to me (us).at least i wouldn't dare to claim any copyright for them, not even creative commons or else "mildered".---i mean if they liked to play bad...if some stupid lawyer... i didn't dare to think only about this.now i'm not sure how the situation is in great britain, in germany you have this so called "abmahner" (copyright claimers, they do nothing else as to snoop in the web for copyright infringements, dare to call this work and live by this well. - "hand me my phaser please!")i feel THIS IS EVIL!as example:i visited once a site of inheritants of a german poet/comedian (heinz erhardt, every german knows him "noch'n gedicht...", oh damned take care gernot that's forbidden), now they have a forum, people felt free to recite poems of the artist.one vampire (i have no other name for them) was attracted by this and started to indict them because of "illegal use of copyrighted work" (imagine this shit, you just recite some prosa for fun, that's almost as if you would do this at your homes kitchen table and some vampire would indict you to earn money with that, if it was about me i would make a nice large hole in his head). anyway they was charged with € 4000 for this, imagine the family of the artist! not someone else as his daughters and sons. fortunately they could make a agreement with the copyrightholders (besides not the original publisher, just a company who baught the copyright from the original publisher, already such makes me mad) and the charge was lowered to, if i'm right still €900.we had such a case even in our family (some far relative of mine) a 14 year old girl was charged with many €1000 for downloading music peer2peer, this is "of course" forbidden (not so in switzerland, you are allowed to download, only uploading would be forbidden, which is even a joke, but that's another thematic). i would like to kick their asses all day long believe me! and it would be a big big pleasure to do so!or tickle them with a helbard, lol.in switzerland fortunately such is forbidden, a company has to claim the copyright itself, it's not (not yet, they delayed also the ACTA, simply delayed it, they are not interested in it, one could say, they know also that a lot of swiss didn't agree to ACTA) possible for a third party to do this.in my simple understanding, we don't like to feed vampires! there exist already far to much of them.---for the rest i see no problems, they are made from scratch and this means it's a new work.besides what if i wouldn't feel comfortable with creative commons and liked to see my models still license free?just as a stupid question of mine.

'potsmoke66' wrote:
vice versa i would disclaim that we used them with "implicit permission of Frontier dev."
There is no implicit permission. Either they're ours, and copyright can be claimed, or they're not, and they must be removed. We've discussed this at length over many months, and have decided that given they're not the original data, and a shape cannot be copyrighted, the former is the case. Obviously we can't be sure without a lawsuit though, but hopefully it will never come to that.
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now i'm not sure how the situation is in great britain, in germany you have this so called "abmahner" (copyright claimers, they do nothing else as to snoop in the web for copyright infringements, dare to call this work and live by this well. - "hand me my phaser please!")i feel THIS IS EVIL!
Yours and anyone else feelings on the matter are entirely irrelevant. As a software project in general, and as a game project that has strong links to other commercial works, we need a clear and consistent position on the intellectual property included in Pioneer.
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for the rest i see no problems, they are made from scratch and this means it's a new work.besides what if i wouldn't feel comfortable with creative commons and liked to see my models still license free?
The recommended licenses for Pioneer are GPL 3 for code and CC-BY-SA 3.0 for assets. You are of course free to choose a different license, but to be included they must be compatible with the existing licensing. "License free" is not an option - by default you must grant permission for your work to be copied, and without a license there is no grant. If you truly want there to be no restrictions at all, then you need to explicitly place your work in the public domain. The public domain however is not a clearly-established concept in all jurisdictions, so in that case the CC0 license is recommended.

robn, i understand, but you have to understand that we swiss not only feel different about this, the situation is different as in most parts of the world today.it's really not possible here for a third party to claim any copyright (yet), this is not the only reason why i personally wish the whole world would become switzerland.but that's a different "story".---if i look at the problem with those few models, to be safe i would remove/replace/alter them, sounds hard also for me, but on the other hand no big deal to create some from scratch. or to rework them so they contain not a tiny bit of the original. actually from my pov they contain really a lot of original data, altered of course.but take simply the vector list of the eagle, i neither calculated them new to our scale, i simply took the output of FFE, resp. what theunis de jongs little toy outputs, these are integer values (of course) which get scaled by a "key" later. the rest of the "code" is rearranged, means of course i couldn't do exactly the same with the vectors, close to but not the same, already the different winding order leads to different results for the bezier stuff.it depends on interpretation i guess, how much they equal to the originals.---the final question was hypothetical, i feel comfortable with the license, why shouldn't i?---following is off topic and are just some thoughts of mine about the whole thingdoes this have to be so complicated? i know it's that ways today...but from a artists pov, a bad joke, it can't be serious, really not.you have to understand that one who creates never wil feel comfortable with such a situation, they say it's for the protection of a artists work, but it turned out to be anything else, it protects and serves whom and whatever but it didn't serves the artists.i know i can write what i want and i'm not in the position to change this (not as a single person), but that didn't means that i have to accept it.just guess if more people all around the world would take such a clear position as me, it would never have come this far, i live in a TRUE democracy, i think truely democratic.fortunately privacy is weighted more here as any copyright and i hope this will stay, anything else would contradict to the principles in our constitution.well, there are many hundred people involved in interpreting the constitution and to create laws and examples, but you know to me there is not much to debate about.all debates usually only start because some think they have more right as their neighbours, that's a old story.former the constitution was made to sort that out, but well some are never satisfied <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />anyway already far to much is going in a wrong direction and i would like to see that even our constitution would be taken more serious.they debate about things which to me are obvious, already here you can see what's behind, some would get simply unemployed if they wouldn't do this endless useless debates.do i have to mind about them? not a tiny bit, they neither mind about if a craftsman looses his job, why should i care for them?what exactly have done such people for a nation? except to take all the profit of?we, the people, make the law, no one else, of course i can speak only for a swiss.if all mankind would act by this, well we would live in a quite different world, with far less falsehearted people in the wrong position."each who is able to carry a weapon has the right to speak free! he has to right to be heard, he can take whatever position, it's his free will" that's a bit ancient and erm... i wouldn't interprete this today the same, e.g. women have the same right...but i guess you know what is ment by this. (but yeah ...able to carry a weapon... sounds good, i guess some of our "leaders" aren't able. i grew up in one of the few cantons left with true basic democracy. still some elder move in to the peoples convent with a sabre, like in the old days. each would be allowed to speak free, if he dares, because you have to show your face, you can't hide behind a desk. same for the voting, you see who votes for what, there is no hiding).in fact you wouldn't have to be educated in nothing to become part of the "federal council" (which equals to a president, but this grants that no single person can have all the power) any worker or farmer as uneducated he might be can become even part of the federal council (theoretically at least, unfortunately people get easy blinded, it seems some like to pick up any horses apples).i know some laugh even here in switzerland about some of our councils, but i feel this is important, we (or to say it right our forefathers) don't want to leave our nation in the hands of sleek lawyers.it wouldn't matter if one can read and write well, it matters what he fights for.further i know not all swiss take such a clear position as i do, but guess why? personal profit, nothing else (doesn't have to be particulary money).and weee, i'm not a real swiss, but we "secondos" claim to be the better swiss, some of us know the constitution better as themself.you said my "feelings" won't matter.i say: my feelings and thoughts form the law!

Yep licensing sucks, and these rules are only here for the "Vampires".
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but from a artists pov, a bad joke, it can't be serious, really not.you have to understand that one who creates never wil feel comfortable with such a situation, they say it's for the protection of a artists work, but it turned out to be anything else, it protects and serves whom and whatever but it didn't serves the artists.i know i can write what i want and i'm not in the position to change this (not as a single person), but that didn't means that i have to accept it.
I agree it's absolutely pathetic. And it is not how I have learned to live my life. If I make something, I own it and get to decide what happens to it. But more than that, you learn to play the system... to get away with what you can. <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> As such, adhering to pathetic laws does not sit well wth me.But yeah we're heading down that road again. I don't like GPL some know this, Why? Its enforcing someone else's values onto me.. forcing me to take a certain position. Which is not FREE in any way. That sounds more like a dictatorship to me.

thanks, does that has something to do with our roots?if you know what i mean, "the unfaltering gauls"?head thick like a rock, never accept any "foreign" ruler? <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//crazy.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crazy:' /> - besides i'm not a gaul (it's not clear to see).i move that once probably to another thread, personally it's something i'm very interested in, but it doesn't belongs here.i would like to see where each comes from (as far as this is known), how far she/he identifies her/himself with that (doesn't have to be your real roots), without any false pride or prejudice of course. or perhaps some identify themself with none? (i think that's sad, nothing can amuse me more as to look in a mirror). <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//victory.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':victory:' />

back to topic,i have a little Q, because i didn't found no info in the wiki to this (not yet).gun_mounts ={{ v(0,-.7,-40), v(0,0,-1), 5, 'HORIZONTAL' },{ v(0,-.7,25), v(0,0,1), 5, 'HORIZONTAL' },}somehow obvious i guess, i'm just not sure."5" is the scale?"HORIZONTAL" of course alignment, does that mean we can have a different alignment? like "VERTICAL"? (if that makes sense at all).a future "FREE" for turrets?while on the other nand the second vector determines the alignment resp. direction already, no?besides how you like to solve possible future turrets?if i remember right in FE2 you have radiants for all guns (not only turrets, this has i guess confused a lot of "hackers", even a simple "front laser" get's determined by radiants and not by a vector), it seems logical to me.at least this was my experiences in hacking FFE resp. FFED3D to get proper positioned lasers for some models.i have to say that back then my knowledge about radiants was very little, but one thing i found out, that "shit" works in a circle, as i would have said back then.to get to a desired position i needed a lot of experiments <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_lol.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />something i would look today at as "radius" and "radiant" to determine the position.---something different, i made this cruel litle spaceport, it was working fine at home on my PC.now when i use it in the "alpha28dev" (other refused to run) i collide already right after lift off with the building.it's hard i know, there IS no or little space for you left, but at home i could start and land with a eagle without any damage.now what i wonder is does have something changed to the collision detection, no longer determined by LOD1?bound to the radius or something like this?unfortunately i have no modelviewer in the compiled OSX release, still my MAC refuses to accept "upgrading", means i can't compile the needed files won't get installed, the whole thing goes in circles, i would need "this" but can't install because of "that", "that" refuses to run because of "this", argh (who ever has setup this MACbook deserves a slap in the face of me, not to install some vital OSX parts is already stupid, not to hand the original softs to my mother, is mean. but we, my mom and me, made a agreement, we will buy a OSX, i made plain to her that it's really not good to have no original softs, even when she used to say "i use the computer rarely, only to stay in contact with my friends". and i do have to be careful with that to, she's very easy disappointed then and says: "i have bought something wrong" - "no you haven't, it's a brillant little machine, it's not your fault, this guy knows the machine, he would know that it's needed but i assume he took/kept it for himself, that's not fair, but has nothing to do with you, you are a "old woman", it's not your fault", neither she agrees to when i say "why don't we ask your "friend" what has happened with the OS, where is it?" - erm, yes so called "friends", how can one be so selfish? i wouldn't do such to a "enemy", to be fair is the minimum, but yes also a reason why i have little friends, i learned in a hard way since days of school, you can't trust most, perhaps a reason why i do really love some of you so much. i learned also from a lot of swiss fellows this stupid sentence: "to have 100bucks or not equals 200" - "yes i know and you all act by this... no matter where the 100bucks come from, hm?").

'potsmoke66' wrote:
back to topic,i have a little Q, because i didn't found no info in the wiki to this (not yet).gun_mounts ={{ v(0,-.7,-40), v(0,0,-1), 5, 'HORIZONTAL' },{ v(0,-.7,25), v(0,0,1), 5, 'HORIZONTAL' },}
[url]https://github.com/p...oneer/pull/1518[/url]

thanksaha, that clarifies a lot,now i know what it is for, that's fine.more, i guess "cool", very good idea!it's really nice to see some longings of mine gettin' realized and i didn't had to speak it out.certain things i kept in the back of my mind or simply forgot them, because i didn't counted them as important or urgent.sorry if i'm not always up to date with things on github,i have a lot of time yes, i'm unemployed, nonetheless keeping in track with all that would cost me much more time.not to imagine what would be if i had a job (such as before), not much time would be left for pioneer, really not.i guess i would also be often (always) simply to tired.let's hope i didn't find a job... or at least not as construction worker or carpenter, it will break my back (again), i'm sure.there would be no "gernötli" present here if i would work in my old job.i'm not sure, perhaps some would like...