SpaceSimCentral

'Marcel' wrote:
I think it's amusing that there's nothing inside that rocket. Here's another of my old drawings showing one of my ships under construction. this one is larger than the 'My Favorite Martian' inspired ship. Unfortunately this one didn't last very long in the game.[attachment=1480:BC battleship01.jpg]
Edit: Funny that it almost looks like the rocket is made of plywood <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Hey that drawing's not half bad, looks pretty big judging from the hanger.Edit2: I think some might like this stuff.These are 2 utube links I stumbled upon with some of the old circa 30-40's Amazing stories & sci-fi pulp covers. Entertaining certainly <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//nyam.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':nyam:' /> id="HbOINZP39r0">
'Loki999' wrote:
I always loved the designs from Chris Foss. They used to be on book covers back in the day, and had a book or two with his artwork in, one was like a guide to the future with descriptions of the ships and the history surrounding them.Loved the styles, and that they were so chunky, usually with big engines.
Awesome ships - that one is almost dirigible like. Such a great variety in spacecraft styles out there. I have a bit more retro stuff I put together that's kind of interesting, will post.Edit: Here's a pic of a lighter than air craft that has an amazing resemblance to a spacecraft.(depending on how Pioneer deals with atmospheric pressures, buoyancy, there may be a place for such interesting vehicles) - Even if not supported by the physics, they could make great vehicles for billboards - game story & local news, info ect.Edit: Just a place to cram more rocket pics <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />More Destination Moon Luna info:[url]http://davidszondy.com/future/space/destinationmoon.htm[/url]

Another painting depicting what was probably current thinking at the time, on realistic methods of space travel.Apart from the influences of Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, Jules Verne, H.G.Wells, engineers and scientists like Robert Goddard, Hermann Oberth, Wernher von Braun and probably some other notables I am remiss in mentioning, there was no effort to consolidate all the diverse ideas on space travel. It took visonary artists such as Chesley Bonestell, Walt Disney, and George Pal to bring many of the abstract ideas of practical rocket travel into a realm of public awareness and understanding through paintings and film.Their revelations that such fantastical inventions were not merely science fiction, but potentially in the realms of possibility, created a modernistic furry in the design industry. Cars with fins (as if they were to lift-off at any moment) became all the rage - not only that! - but technology would solve ANY challenge - and that we should all prepare ourselves to be driving hover cars and rocketships in a decade or two!Space tourism captures the public imagination:One of the first notable hollywood films that took on the challenge of representing space travel in some 'realistic' a manner was producer/animater George Pal's "When Worlds Collide (1951). Pal's later production of "The Conquest of Space" (1954) further showcased renowned artist Chesley Bonestell's painted visions of space travel and it's myraid of possible rocket propelled vehicles.This was quickly followed up by a film heralded (in retrospect) as the '2001 Space Odyssey' of that decade, "Destination Moon" (1955). Pal also is said to have worked with Chesley Bonestell on much of the production sets and design.Around that same period Chesley Bonestell, Disney and Von Braun had all been trying to generate more public facination and interest in space travel. The following pictures are what ensued and was probably considered at that time to be fringe technology and at the cutting edge in any realistic portrayal of what space travel might ultimately look like.NASA was established by the National Aeronautics and Space Act on July 29, 1958, replacing its predecessor, the National AdvisoryCommittee for Aeronautics (NACA).Pics from When Worlds CollideWhen Worlds Collide 2 min trailer[url]http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0657162/[/url] from The Conquest of SpacePics from Destination MoonMore pics of Chesley Bonestell and video linksMore of Chesley Bonestell images here:[url]http://daily-lazy.bl...-bonestell.html[/url] Bonestell / Collier's Tribute - A 1952 Orbiter Film by Timm Humphrey[url]http://timmhumphreys...e98cee50abe.flv[/url] Bonestell inspired animated space scene BRAUN, Trip Around the Moon, DISNEY,1955 von Braun's RM-1 returns to Earth. Braun 3 stage Rocket interior view.Von Braun's 3 stage rocket showing scale (via scale models). Included is another blueprint style drawing.Some nice compositing work

Fantastic stuff! Thanks for posting this!I hesitate to put my stuff in the same thread, but here's a drawing of a shuttlecraft approaching a battlestation. It was inspired by the chrome front wheel of a long-haul truck.[attachment=1481:BC station.jpg]

No worries it's all one thread anyways. :DIn case it's not clear, this thread is ALSO a forum on various art styles - specific more to spacecraft, that might be considered as inspiration for original Pioneer artwork and ship design directions.Assuming there are at least 5 factions, that could easily represent 5 distinct styles. There may be more. Tech levels alone between various civilizations could create huge disparity in scales/styles between any face to face vessels.Other factors that could have an influence on design may be purely environmental. Gravity and radiation affect engine size and shielding (they may or may not be visually as apparent depending again on civ tech level).Any modders that want to introduce 'CLASSIC' ships into the game, in the form of mods, is of course, highly encouraged. :music:Marcel: Nice saucer, I like your little shuttle craft too and the detail on all the thrusters .A link to avsim site showing some 3d models of an X-1 & X-15 and further historical context.[url]http://www.avsim.com/pages/0603/fs2002_tribute/1947-70/tribute_part4.html[/url] Some additional Chesley Bonestell rocket montages ending with one of his most famous paintings that has singularly had a profound influence on the development of spaceflight and space art. A famous view of Saturn seen from its giant moon Titan. More Chesley Bonestell links:[url]http://www.encyclopedia.com/video/MEwOy4UDqC0-chesley-bonestell-colliers-tribute-1952.aspx[/url] Stop motion maestro Ray Harryhausen's rocket ship from the 1957 movie 20 Million Miles to Earth.jpg

Disney and Von BraunPaintings by John PolgreenHey what's that on the horizon...?'Mars, our mysterious and ominously silent neighbor. For so many years the potential home of fantastical multi limbed creatures with mind control abilities, that would some day view earthlings as tools to be used to do their evil bidding.'I must confess some small relief with my disappointment when the Mars Viking lander touched down and was not greeted by the Martian Ambassador and a welcoming committee ;}

In dedication:"H. G." Wells (21 September 1866 – 13 August 1946) Author of "War Of The Worlds"Chesley Bonestell (January 1, 1888 – June 11, 1986) Painter, Designer, IllustratorGeorge Pal (February 1, 1908 – May 2, 1980) Animator, Film producer of 1953 vers.Albert Nozaki (January 1, 1912 – November 16, 2003) Art Director, Designer(WOTW)Some excellent classic illustrations:[url]http://drzeus.best.v...s/interior.html[/url] always struck me as odd that the world of 'science' fiction, seemed to overnight lose all credibility when it came to stories regarding civilizations on Mars - some in the media would keep the fire stoked with tales of pyramids at Elysium and Cydonia even while evidence was piling up by the second to disprove such claims. The possibility of underground cities or a secretive martian society were quickly becoming the only bastion of hope for some form of alien martian intellect to still exist there.

I've been wishing for a more Retro, smaller scale gameplay style for some time... Pioneer / Frontier but on a Single Stellar System rather than Galactic Scale and with much more primitive "realistic" in game technology.I've been rolling a Mod idea around in my head for a while and I think I've got it...A classic element of modern Space Opera is a recent war, essentially a transplant of the Western Genre using the American Civil War as a backdrop. I think we should run with that idea as the background of Pioneer, "The War" ended in 2999 and the game starts in 3000...Pioneer is set around the year 3000 with a mature spacefaring society... I think a mod set around the year 2500 would be a great way to play around with a bunch of Retro gameplay elements and designs. Call it "Pre War Boom" and set it in during the first wave of FTL expansion, based in one of maybe a few dozen systems already settled by Slower than Light colony ships.

NeuralKernel: A pre FTL scenario mod could be a helpful way to get new players up to speed on Pioneers year 3200 FTL tech.Also pre FTL civs 'might' (to keep things realistic) hopefully creep into the game at some point, so you could be helping to set up some ground rules/equipment for such societies <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> (having said that, some civ's may not even have spaceflight capability and may simply be planet bound.I can imagine even those societies would need some form of air vehicles. Possibly a hybrid of modernized zeppelins and some limited form of rocket propelled aircraft. As far as interplanetary travel - Some variation of Von Braun's 3 stage rocket design might be a good base for a civ on the cusp of space travel. Given that civ's expands outwards, the moon needs a lot more development - and could even be made a starting point. Imagine having to drive a moon bus - transporting goods and passengers until you accumulated enough money to get a proper ship. It could make you appreciate what you have earned a lot more.Anyways, obligatory posting of images <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Great credit must be given to Albert Nozaki for all his incredible designs & detail work, WOTW would not have been the same film without him.After working on George Pal's "War of the Worlds", Albert Nozaki, who's war machine designs were closely inspired by Chesley Bonestell's original sketches, would later lend some of his work to the less spectacular but still entertaining "Robinson Crusoe Of Mars".Another important wunderkind of special effects who worked on War Of The Worlds, The Outer Limits and brought his talents to this film as well, was director Byron Haskin 1899-1984[url]http://computergeniu...-Mars-168787470[/url] Thought I would add some detail to keep the whole time frame thing in perspective.Land of the Giants (TV Series 1968-1970)More info & pics:[url]http://irwinallengal...ift_008.jpg.php[/url] in Space (TV Series 1965–1968) (preview) Invaders (TV Series 1967–1968) (intro) Trek (TV Series 1966–1969) blooper reel is some current CGI animated stuff I found that looks impressive - I encourage you to check it out:Star Trek: Aurora--Complete (Official Site)

I've been rolling it around in my head and I like the idea of the sudden discovery of the Hyperdrive sparking a massive Interstellar War... between the slower than light colony ships already on the way to distant stars and the Hyperdrive equipped Claim Jumpers...The Megastructures already built were just too vulnerable to attack and were almost all destroyed during the war. That's why you'll almost never find a Ringworld or Beanstalk in Pioneer... but they'd be everywhere in the Pre-War Era. <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />All these are either from Eclipse Phase books or related art, so some is CC license, but not fully compatible...Olympus Mons Beanstalk...Or floating cities in Venus' upper Atmosphere...Before being linked back together by FTL, the different settled systems would potentialy have diverged quite a bit and adapted to their local environments with artificial means. Easy mixing of the entire human genepool would reinforce a tendancy back towards a standard "baseline" but with lots of populations isolated by decades of travel time, each capable of radical self modification with mature biotech and nanotech and all living in dramatically different environments... you could end up with some very strange humans very quickly!

Those are some awesome pics and ideas for bases - (also, XLNT way to have a girlfriend jus' 'hang around <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />The 'bean stalk' analogy - refers to a space elevator? (if so, don't they technically need to sit over a planet's poles? Not that that should necessarily be a limiter for dream tech)IMO, space elevators would likely be one of the more logical features of a society wanting to expand into space. Consider that space elevators would arguably be one of the most efficient means of transporting goods/people into orbit. Any new player would not get a ship that had the potential to deliver him to orbit. He might get a ship (or a ride on one) to deliver him to the space elevator.From there he would take the ride up the elevator to low Earth orbit. Only from there, would a player be able to buy a small ship.The small ship wouldn't be able on it's own to do any more than travel between spacestations (maybe able to deal with the low gravity of the moon - but no more). After a player has accumulated enough money for a larger more capably engined ship, he would be able to accomplish full planetary landings and take-offs.

Well a Space Elevator in the "traditional" sense usually needs to be over the equator and whatever planet / moon it is connected to needs to be spinning fast enough for there to be a geostationary orbit close enough to the surface to reach with a cable. Venus does not spin fast enough, for example.I use the term Beanstalk is a generic term for any vertical megastructure meant to grant access to space... it includes Tensile Structures like Space Elevators as well as Compressive Structures like Space Fountains.[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_fountain[/url] planets or cities without the right conditions for a proper elevator there's always the plain old mass driver <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I remember reading about mass drivers potentially being considered to launch stuff out to Lagrange points, where they would get scooped up by collectors. Always though Pioneer should eventually have something like this (if for nothing else - target practice)Updated: I received a request for a decal that I put on my Interstellar Shuttle mod of an Orion slave girl:(not my work but sweet, nonetheless)Green_Space_Girl_Betty_by_adventurevisual converted to ship decalTo make it easier for those who don't know where to put decals, I made a 'drop-in' mod compatible versionGreenSpaceGirlBetty mod will replace decal_c.png (to remove any decal simply remove that decal mod)download here: [url]http://www.mediafire...4uin1485yy8d46y[/url] 'Orion Girl' seemed so lonely all by her little green self - I thought she should have some friends 'over' for company <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Yvonne_Craig_Star_Trek TOS mod replaces decal_b.pngdownload here: [url]http://www.mediafire...43t9d7gfkt2u8mp[/url] - definately Goddess & appropriate for the period. (1968) - maybe an interesting decal.Barbarella mod replaces decal_j.pngdownload here: [url]http://www.mediafire...5isvbcb370cb4ay[/url] And than one from my Pvt. stock <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Taarna's got a brand NEW ride. (+ xtra decal )*special* ... Put a bit of time into this personal fav. I used the original Taarna image as base. Than tried to construct a rocket-sled into the scene at a reasonable perspective. Had to use 'some' artistic licence in recreating any obscured anatomy from Taarna's source picture. (included) Decals images are flipped right to left, to more likely face the forward direction of a ship (since most decals appear are on the left hand side of a pilot's ship)Taarna mod replaces decal_g & decal_hdownload here: [url]http://www.mediafire...zzzmp8645q7c4cc[/url] another:Local BC island girl Pamela AndersonPam Anderson mod will replace decal _edownload here: [url]http://www.mediafire...mv3cuuaf749e831[/url] back to that appropo seguay for the previous girl hanging upside down <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Some other related links:[url]http://www.goingfast...rewsicarus.html[/url]

Back in '68 space movies were starting to get some traction again, although no one in the entertainment industry seemed to want to take on the challenge of producing a film that might soon become outdated by real events. Apollo was well underway and people were starting to catch space fever all over again.CRAFT CREW LAUNCH DATE ORBITS DURATIONAPOLLO 1 Grissom, White, Chaffee N/A N/A N/AAPOLLO 7 Schirra, Eisele, Cunningham 1968-10-11 163 Earth 11 daysAPOLLO 8 Borman, Lovell, Anders 1968-12-21 10 Lunar 6 daysFortunately, Stanley Kubrick was not your average director and was able muster the financing required for such an undertaking.Arthur C. Clark was brought on board as collaborator and sounding board to Kubrick's visions.Another important ingredient to the success of the project was space artist Robert McCall, who's paintings were a mainstay of Nasa'sPR department.Add to this, some of NASA's brightest engineers and scientists being tapped to design REAL spacecraft - including all the supportaspects surrounding their deployment and use. No one had done this before to such a highly technical degree.When I first laid eyes on a poster for '2001 A Space Odyssey', it was met with great skepticism from me. I had seen all these flashytype sci-fi poster's before. They would promise an engrossing journey, but would usually leave you feeling it was campy and unrealistic in some way.2001 changed all that (practically) overnight. Even thought the movie was not initially successful at the box office - it started todraw steady crowds, largely from the drug counter culture of the time. Kubrick's psychedelic visions of communion with an alien intelligence, was as good if not better than some of the 'liquid light shows' of the era.Being a mere lad at the time, all I really cared about was the technical achievement of what looked like a truly realistic interpretation of what the future had in store for all humankind.From Earth to Moon, 2001 A Space Odyssey style. by clavius500 of Robert McCall's paintings:Robert McCall, (1919-2010)[url]http://www.fanboy.co...ert-mccall.html[/url] Robert McCall, Picasso of the Space Age[url]http://motherboard.v...f-the-space-age[/url] A Space Odyssey Reconstructed pt.1 Extra Minutes Of 2001: A Space Odyssey Discovered In Vault[url]http://www.cinemable...ault-22290.html[/url]

2001: a space odyssey; CG discovery space odyssey CG Station-5 5 minutes[url][/url] A Space Odyssey in Celestia part 1 A Space Odyssey in Celestia part 2 A Space Odyssey in Celestia part 3

XLNT 2009 4 part documentary:2001 A Space Odyssey The Making Of A Myth Part 1 4 A Space Odyssey The Making Of A Myth Part 2 4 A Space Odyssey The Making Of A Myth Part 3 4 A Space Odyssey The Making Of A Myth Part 4 4

2001 Theme song[url]http://www.youtube.c...&v=QwxYiVXYyVs#[/url] interesting facts paraphrased from: [url]http://en.wikipedia....A_Space_Odyssey[/url] States Spacecraft Discovery OneDiscovery One is a large, nuclear-powered interplanetary spaceship. Discovery was named after Captain Robert Scott's RRS Discovery, launched 1901; Arthur C. Clarke used to visit the ship when she was moored in London.Aries IbLunar lander built for providing regular passenger commuting between Earth's orbit and the Moon, provided for travel between the Earth and Space Station V. It is nuclear powered, the high performance of its engines allowing it to make a fast transfer to the moon (at about one day, compared to three days which were necessary for Apollo). It also carries a retractable landing gear.[url]http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=28285[/url] PodThe EVA Pod is used for extra-vehicular activity . The Jupiter spacecraft Discovery One carries three of these small, one-man maintenance vehicles. A section of the pod appears briefly in the background in a scene from Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace as a tribute to the film. Also check out: EVA POD [url]http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=36948[/url] III spaceplaneIs a two-stage space shuttle launched on a reusable winged booster. It is equipped with aerospike rocket engines and jet engines for atmospheric flight. In early stages of planning for the film, the spaceplane's engines on the back were designed to break away from the passenger section of the plane.Shamelessly cropped and reduced:2001 Orion Space Clipper [url]http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=42468[/url] Clipper “Pan Am” Orion [url]http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=28260[/url] 1B - The lander of all landers, IMO.[url]http://www.scifi-mes...?do=file&id=261[/url] Some of the incorporated ORION and ARIES images courtesy Simon Atkinson Creative Arts:[url]http://www.simonatkinsoncreativearts.com/[/url] small, low altitude rocket craft meant to be used for quick transportation of passengers and cargo above the surface of the MoonSpace Station VA large, international, rotating wheel space station used as a transfer point from Low Earth orbit to the moon and other planets. It also functions as an orbital hotel.The rotating wheel depicted in the movie traces its lineage back to wheeled space station designs by Wernher von Braun and Herman Potocnik, the latter describing such a space station design in his book The Problem of Space Travel - The Rocket Motor (1928). The studio model was reported to be eight feet wide (Bizony) or six feet wide (Agel), and stuffed with tiny lights behind the windows.

THOSE are the kinds of ships I want to fly...Two stage Nuclear Reactor, low temperature for thermal rocket operation, high temperature for electrical generation to power electric rockets.The propellant in a thermal rocket is essentially evaporative coolant directed in a specific direction, operating the thermal thrusters will "chill" the reactor core as the reaction mass carries the heat away... giving you an initial burst of high thrust that gradually lowers as the core reaches an equillibrium temperature where the heat generated equals the heat carried away. Working deep in a gravity well you need high thrust but not generally for very long, using orbital mechanics to take advantage of things like the Oberth Effect means you can sometimes actually achieve a higher speed with a less "efficient" engine.[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect[/url] course, for cruising you want a long duration engine... something electromagnetic drives are VERY good at if you can meet the energy requirements.With a nuclear reactor (or any thermal energy source, concentrated solar for example) the output of the system depends on the delta T, the difference in thermal energy between the "hot" and "cold" parts of your generator. In Space the only way to dump heat without also dumping mass (thermal rocket) is to radiate it away, and radiators work most efficiently at high temperatures... so in order to get a decent delta-T out of a spacecraft reactor you need to run the radiators hot... and the core FRAKING HOT!!It was one of the things removed from the Discovery in the movie... radiator panels. Ironically they were removed because it was thought that some of the fans would think they were aerodynamic surfaces and would thus think it wasn't "realistic" on a deep space craft...

The ultimate challenge for spacecraft radiators... close approaches to a star. The whole movie Sunshine is based on the idea. They get a lot of things wrong but overall I quite enjoyed it. The ship is the Icarus II, the Icarus I has gone missing...And close to the Sun...It's a lot like shielding for relativistic flight, or the Navigational Deflector from Star TrekAnd the Aerobrake from 2010 <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_biggrin.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> guess, basically, I think that the armouring requirements of a spacecraft, combined with it's thermal management and mass limitations, means that a medieval style Shield is actually an extremely practical compromise. It's funny, but the more I think about how I would set up the ideal Space Fighter the closer it ends up to something like thisOr maybe this <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

edit. (just some clarification)Nice info and pics Neural Kernal! That IS some radiator <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//nyam.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':nyam:' /> It would be interesting to see an engine with diminishing top thrust in Pioneer. Pioneer should really have a thrust percentage readout 'somewhere' just to give a pilot some idea what he has available in a pinch. (this is for the thrust limiter - some sort of readout for when it's engaged showing percent thrust setting)Here's an example of what I mean (this could just show you the setting of your thrust limiter at any given moment (or percent number could pop up the moment the thrust limiter is applied).That wouldn't answer the question of how much thrust power you were able to deliver at any given moment, in the case of atomics - you would ideally require a separate readout for that. (ie: variance & diminishing maximum thrust)I guess it would depend on how much power variance exists as to how important that reading would be.

More Moonbus Above shot showing Douglas Trumbull (born April 8, 1942) American film director, special effects supervisor, and inventor. He contributed to, or was responsible for, the special photographic effects of 2001: A Space Odyssey, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Blade Runner and The Tree of Life, and directed the movies Silent Running and Brainstorm. The REAL Station V from the film Screenshot: (left size intact)5 station building; reproduction CG 2001: A Space Odyssey<a href="""[url]http://k-hiura.cocol...001cg_82fa.html[/url] href="""[url]http://k-hiura.cocol.../post-5e06.html[/url] 2001 preproduction painting of a docking bay showing what appears to be, some sort of docking clamp system."As the plane banked Dr Floyd could see a dead-straight scar across the flat Florida landscape - the multiple rails of a giant launching track".According to NASA "Tracks like this could be used to launch vehicles into space in the future".For zoomed out views and more info:<a href="""[url]http://www.teslamoto...on-test-system/[/url] href="""[url]http://mix.msfc.nasa...acts.php?p=3154[/url] nicely made model of Clavius Base.