SpaceSimCentral

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Darkone wroteSometimes I think developers are starting to phase out the joystick because the games are getting a lot more fast paced and you need something that will respond quickly and be very accurate.
But isn't that the point, were the developers of the games loose a bit of "ground contact", making a simulation game more accurate than reality could ever be ?Well, you need a most accurate mouse on i.e. strategic games, where you have to single out perhaps a small group of 3-5 warriors or else out of a army of the hundreds and thousends to your hand, or on an ego shooters, where your controler has to be as accurate as your own hand on sniping the bad boys.But on a flying sim, in space or air or the deep waters of a drowned planet (I really liked aquanox ) I WANT to have all the problems a pilot has to fight with and that includes a sometimes abit sluggish steering on your stick, especially if you try to fight half a dozen interceptor while flying a rusty GTR or cargo-tug.On the other hand I don't know, why the developers of game controls have lost contact to the games and don't offer i.e. flight sticks with an accuracy matching the games and my big grubby hands?

I think we are also looking at the difference between 'games' and 'simulations' here. Games are focusing on gameplay, and simulations are simulating some kind of real world experience. Games sacrifice reality for game mechanics, where as simulations might do the opposite. Most obviously though, simulations would expect to have a control device closely resembling the real world counterpart. The better the simulation the closer to the real world counter part the control device will be. An example would be shuttle or airplane simulators used to train astronauts and pilots. Their controls are essentially the same as a real shuttle's or airplane's.Getting back to Space Sims, my purpose in playing them is to simulate something that I most likely will never experience otherwise. Space flight and or space travel. That is probably the main reason why I would opt for a joystick/gamepad everytime. In the near term, they are a closer approximation to the controls one might expect to find in a spacecraft than mice and keyboards. I am not really interested in playing a game, but rather desire to experience the simulation of piloting a space craft.

HiI have to say the mouse and keyboard combo is my preference, but then again, I have been playing space sims since the 8bit days, so not a lot of choice back then as the joysticks weren't up to much. Strangely though, I do prefer a joystick when playing flight sims like FSX

Depends:When I'm not doing anything, just flying around, then joystick (too lazy to use two hands )Any other time: mouse and keyboard. Summa summarum, I didn't use my joystick in ages

Short Story: Games are not the reason that I sit down at my computer. The PC has a keyboard and a mouse, so the game I pick to play during a short break should use the same.Longer Story:[*:33o6ojeh]Joysticks are faster and more precise than any other controllers -- and they also fit the "brain" best. But they are large, expensive, and you may need more than one to fit all of your favorite games. They require more work... too much work for my taste (but I have had a lot of fun with them).[*:33o6ojeh]
Sidewinder-style stick with built-in throttle and rudder/turret control = most successful implementation of a joystick.[*:33o6ojeh]Logitech = Best Manufacturer. Other companies may make a great controller or two, but Logitech has many pages full of winners.[*:33o6ojeh]CH Flightstick Pro = Most fun; perfect number of buttons.[*:33o6ojeh]Thrustmaster HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick) with Rudder Pedals = best sense of realism.[*:33o6ojeh]Joypads are vastly inferior in speed and precision, but they are somewhat standardized, small, and cost effective. Standardization is good for everyone. Plus, an entire generation of kids has grown up with them, so cars will probably have joypads instead of steering wheels, in another generation or two. In other words, I think joypads are a long-term runner-up to keyboard and mouse (even though they are kind of lame for actually controlling anything). [*:33o6ojeh]In the Tangentially Relevant Category: Logitech Harmony = State Of The Art in home theater remote controls. Harmony brings a little bit of order to the (utterly stupid) chaos.Bottom Line:1) Keyboard and Mouse as primary interface.2) Joypads as a standardized secondary interface. (Hopefully they will improve in time.) :)3) Joystick for hard-core fun and sense of realism.

I have to say Iam coming around to the idea of using a joypad,just been playing a bit of the PS1 game Colony Wars.The game does not have all the features of pc space sim,but it playes very well,much better than the PS1 Wing Commander games did.

Keyboard/Mouse are my favorites

It all depends on the game to me.I find that the more realistic games benefit from using a joystick or at least a joypad.

One thing I forgot about was the track ball. I used to have one of these for my miggy and used it to good effect in Frontier.

Never used a trackball are they any good.

They can take a bit of getting used to and it's important to have a good quality one. I used to use an Alpha Data with my miggy until I wore out it's brass rollers. I still have it and it kind of still works, even changes colour when you move it. Anyways, with practice you could be as accurate with it as using a mouse, plus it was a good space saver. I wonder if I could get some new rollers made for it?

PINBACK wrote:
Never used a trackball are they any good.
Personally I would say YES. I won't buy a mouse that isn't a trackball, but it has to be one with the thumb controlling the ball.
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with practice you could be as accurate with it as using a mouse
I would say with practice you can be even more accurate than with a standard mouse. But thats just me.

s20dan wrote:
I would say with practice you can be even more accurate than with a standard mouse. But thats just me.
I would agree with you there S20dan, after mine started to fail (and I couldn't find a replacement for my miggy), it took me ages to get used to using a mouse again. Trackballs are better for accuracy once you get used to them. I did most of my flying in Frontier with one. One downside to them though (and it's just a little one) is that they needed to be cleaned on a regular basis. Apart from that little niggle, yes I would get another one again. Bet they have advanced quite a bit since the one I had back in the 90s.

Geraldine wrote:
Trackballs are better for accuracy once you get used to them... One downside to them though (and it's just a little one) is that they needed to be cleaned on a regular basis. Apart from that little niggle, yes I would get another one again. Bet they have advanced quite a bit since the one I had back in the 90s.
I agree with you, Geraldine, about the convenience, space-saving, and accuracy of trackballs. As you say, it takes a bit of time to develop the muscle-memory for them. Once you do that, they really are a very nice controller.The original designs were built like an upside-down roller mouse, so they have the same problem with needing to be cleaned as old-fashioned roller-ball mice have. Sadly, trackballs have never become mainstream devices. They have been replaced by touchpads on most laptops and keyboards, and few manufacturers still make them (mostly Logitech and Kensington). One of Logitech's early claims to fame was their TrackMan trackball. The most important improvement in technology is the use of optical technology to track movement rather than rollers which need to be cleaned. Logitech makes at least one optical trackball, which is an excellent idea, and it eliminates the problem with dirty rollers. Kensington makes several optical trackballs. Microsoft also made a popular optical trackball that been discontinued. I checked on eBay and see that they still sell for over $100 US, which is an expensive experiment for the curious user who just wants to try one.[hsimg]http://www.logitech.com/assets/14779/14779.png[/hsimg]As a point of trivia, the tackball was invented for the Canadian Royal Navy in 1952, using a 5-pin (small) bowling ball as the ball. That was 11 years before the first mouse.I was most fond of the older style of trackball that used a large ball, about the size and weight of a billiard ball. My reason for liking that style was that the size of the ball made it extremely precise, while the weight of the ball made it "coast" when you spun it quickly, so you could move across the screen instantly. It created a combination of speed and accuracy that is unmatched by other pointing devices. The Kensington Expert Mouse is the only brand that I can find that still uses those large balls.

Ah yes the cleaning, I'm used to it now though so I jsut forget about it... But it can be pretty damn annoying when your aiming for the head and your dirty mouse starts sticking :)This is the newer version of my one:I've been using the thumb ones for what seems like a very long time now.

Wow, they have come a long way, the one my miggy used looked a lot more primitive, still had 3 buttons though, so not bad for an early 90s bit of kit.

Well you can normally click in the mouse wheel on those, so thats sort of like a third button. But it hasn't ever worked for my mouse I probably need a driver or something.

Here you go S20dan http://driverscollection.com/?V=Logitech&S=69 Now back to work with you on those cool Pioneer ships!

Thanks Geraldine. I haven't been able to use that button for years :)I must have tried once toget a driver but I suppose I couldnt find one.DL-ing it now I hope it works.. :)Edit, Well the driver seems to work nicely so thanks for pointing me toward it. It shows the correct name for my mouse, but I dont know how to test the middle button :)Edit2, Seems I jumped the gun on that, it wasn't working and after my attempts to get it working I had to run windows recovery

Now that is odd, perhaps the driver is not compatible with your version of windows. Sorry it didn't work