SpaceSimCentral

They went for some sort of client/server architecture with the procedural generation, economy and mission handling done server side. NPC generation as well. You'd be basically visiting a static, lifeless sandbox. Presumably all of that could be done by transplanting server code into the client. I'm not implying that's easy, but what they should say is "It would be a lot of work, we just aren't going to do it right now.", however much of what they are saying sounds, at least in tone, like "We don't expect there to ever be much more single player content than there already is." (or am I just being paranoid? Anyone else getting that impression?) Hopefully it's just a case of them trying to justify a PR mistake by exaggerating.

I asked for a refund, but Frontier said that if you played the game (no matter how much, even just watching at the beautiful main menu screen) would void your rights to get a refund. I asked a local lawyer here about that statement from Frontier, and he said that having used the product doesn't void the right to get a refund if the product is not as it was advertised, because otherwise you'd have no way of checking if the product works properly as it is advertised. So Frontier's statement on that is bogus and I could just report this fraudulent refusal of a refund to the regulatory authorities. Anyone living in the EU could do that, as the laws apply to all the member countries. In my case, i haven't been able to play the game in a stable manner for more than 8 hours due to my ISP being a fucktard.

I asked for a refund, but Frontier said that if you played the game (no matter how much, even just watching at the beautiful main menu screen) would void your rights to get a refund. I asked a local lawyer here about that statement from Frontier, and he said that having used the product doesn't void the right to get a refund if the product is not as it was advertised, because otherwise you'd have no way of checking if the product works properly as it is advertised. So Frontier's statement on that is bogus and I could just report this fraudulent refusal of a refund to the regulatory authorities. Anyone living in the EU could do that, as the laws apply to all the member countries.Hey robske, I know people may have this option to get their money back. But unless they all get together and do a class action suit it is really not feasible to do since your out $50 for a game (possibly more if your kickstarter) since going to court would cost considerably more. I think most companies have the consumer over a barrel when it comes to the everyday person wanting their money back. In the end we have memories and I think most people here have a little discontent for our favorite developer Ubisoft. So people have memories and the next project could not be as profitable for them if they burn too many people.I have been to many places in my travels and I have to admit least back then not many places had high speed internet to support a twitch based game and as I stated before games like the Black Prophecy, which looked great failed badly because of lag and combat sucked because of it so it made it unplayable. They probably would have been more successful if they released server code or made a single player or multiplayer game instead of online only.That letter Pinback posted is concerning... like this here: Do you now consider Elite: Dangerous to be an MMO?Technically, it has always been. There are already over 100,000 people playing in the same world. We believe that always-online entertainment is already a reality for the majority. We are delivering a truly huge game using the best technology and designed to stand the test of time, played for many years to come and still be relevant. Technically they didn't mention the word MMO or Massive Multi-Player Online game in there Kickstarter pitch, so obviously not everyone thought they were making a online only version of Elite. It's ok if they are, I am not irritated at game direction at all. What I am upset with is the fact they actually kinda deceived quite a few gamers into thinking they were geting something other than a MMO. This could have been handled better, all I have to say is I hope Chris Roberts and company can make us fans proud

@SSCADMIN: https://www.acm.nl/en/[/url] I could report them there. The result would be that Frontier risks fines and penalties, and in extreme cases a prohibition from selling their products (I honestly don't expect that, but it has been used in the past as a measure). Also, if I'd wanted to start a lawsuit, it would only cost me 50 dollars in The Netherlands. It's because when you are under a certain income level the government will pay the lawyer costs except a very small amount which tends to discourage most people with such low incomes to do such a thing. Consider that I live only 20% above the Dutch statistical poverty level. I have sodding luck that the region I live in is economically and demographically in a bad shape, and there's a surplus of housing. So rent prices are piss cheap compared to most other parts of the netherlands, which allows me to at least afford some luxury like games as Elite Dangerous. But 50 pounds sterling is really a massive amount for me to pay. Why do you think I run a shoebox PC?  

wow that's a hell lot of cable, still. the 16:9 monitor doesn't beat my 5:4 Relevant article from another dev.http://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=8176[/url]

Sorry guys ... but I really getting tried of the this attitude of "I want my money back, or I'll sue". I really don't care if they had developed the game as offline or not. The whole reason why I put my money down for the beta was to finally see ED come into the 21st Century gaming hardware ability. You might not like it but FD have decided this is the focus they want to travel along. So be it. I still want to play it and this was something I want to have happen for a long time.I will be very upset and just as vocal as you guys if you take a class action and force FD not release the game. Really upset!!  I sorry you are small minority of backers which is at the moment is screaming the loudest in both this forum and FD's forum. PS - Please let move on and let see this game become the game we been dreaming about for decades. Space Exploration and Adventure.

You can't have your cake and eat it : either this is a small vocal minority, so there's no reason why FD shouldn't refund anyone who asked to, especially given the current PR disaster. Either it's not that small and maybe they should reconsider their plans of not giving away the server binary. It's always sad when people are expecting others to give away their rights as consumers (or otherwise, for that matter) just because they, themselves, don't feel concerned.

Sorry guys ... but I really getting tried of the this attitude of "I want my money back, or I'll sue" I agree, that's absurd. Talking about lawsuits is ridiculous, everyone knew damn well that if you back something so early, there are risks that the developer will fail you in some way That said, FD really screwed this up. It seems they were deliberately misleading and people should be upset. I'm sure there were people at FD who fancied the idea of eventually making offline available until the decision to drop it was finally made, but if they were not trying to sell beta code, they would have told everyone what the deal was months earlier. Suing a game developer because they don't do what you want is laughable, but people should be upset.

Sorry guys ... but I really getting tried of the this attitude of "I want my money back, or I'll sue". <snip> PS - Please let move on and let see this game become the game we been dreaming about for decades. Space Exploration and Adventure. I can fully understand you're growing tired of the bitching and whatever. And I'm not gonna sue over something like this (even though its well within the range of capabilities) and neither do I want to deny others to enjoy and experience the game. When I purchased the game (during the beta) I made a purchase deal with them (as everyone does when they buy something whether they know it or not), which is an agreement to pay for a product which has a certain set of features and quality which the seller or creator of it advertises about it. They changed the conditions of that without my consent. The law in that states that such a thing is illegal and gives you the right to demand a refund. In my case, it's a dealbreaker since the being-online requirement makes the game much harder for me to play and enjoy. It's also one of the reasons why I quit EVE Online eventually, because trying to FC a fleet on a unstable interwebs connection is not really practical. There's always gonna be people who are upset about this sort of thing, and people who will just be like "hey get over it and lets jusy enjoy the game for what it is.". In this case, I'm with the former group since it directly affects the level in which I manage to enjoy the game. For others, that reason may be non-existent and as such they won't be fussed about it. That doesn't mean I should just let go of my rights though. So I wish you much enjoyment with Elite Dangerous. Its a fabulous game, but I can hardly even play it (even though I wish I could).

Oh I totally here where your coming from, I haven't pre-ordered or kickstarted this game.... why? Because I was in a wait and see mode because I could tell by the early videos and the kickstarter that FD wasn't 'big enough' to deliver all of what was talked about early on in the videos and I was right. I mean what I am seeing is great.... but me personally I haven't seen a whole lot of exploration gameplay and what we as gamers can do with it (but I will say I haven't played the game so I don't know). I try not to be harsh on any games when I play them and I give both pros/cons and I am fair. But I have a certain play style I like and I buy games that suit those. Right now E:D still hasn't shown me something that makes this a instant buy for me, Star Citizen did. I was only irritated because I have said in other posts that these two development leads for FD and RSI are icons in this gaming genre and us as gamers kind of hold them to a standard. If you want to say a certain respect is given to them. Why? Because they have earned it with the games they have made in past, so as gamers we also deserve the same respect as consumers of their games. Yes, FD screwed up we all know this. Should they have told the community a lot sooner about their intentions yes. Yes SC/Squadron 42 has some SP elements to it but they have also released people can make their own servers, so what does that mean.... it means we can keep the game alive for a long time (like Freelancer). E:D only time will tell with this one, I rarely play MMO's personally now because the content is usually poor or 'actual people' ruin my fun. I hope E:D is a great game and is around for a long time, but like a lot of gamers here. I like to know that maybe 5-7 yrs from now after I have stopped playing E:D and I say to myself 'Man I haven't played E:D in a long time let me install it', will I be able too? People tend to be short sighted these days when it comes to games, in that games seem to have a expiration date or something. And people don't care that they loose access to play a game because the servers close of the developers are defunct. Why? You bought it you should be able to play it whenever unless they tell you eventually you can't. I guess that's why I have always liked games with SP elements because then I know I should be able to play the game in the future. I have a couple hundred games in my steam account and I have probably played maybe 10% of them, just don't have the time. But I expect the game to be there when I do have time. SSC is here to preserve these games so 10+ yrs from now maybe we can download and play a game. We see so many games die and go into ether to never be seen again. I would hate for this to happen to E:D because it does show so much promise. I guess for me, I don't want to see the show end in a few years... there is nothing wrong with that

it means we can keep the game alive for a long time (like Freelancer). I was wondering past evening why E:D didn't walk the Freelancer sp-mp model. It would be the perfect compromise imo.

Agreed, its called future proofing your game. Modding keeps games alive forever and mods usually can't be done in online only games unless you can create your own servers (ahem like Freelancer). So as long as Chris Roberts takes a page out of his own book SC/Squadron 42 should be around for a long time. I only want the same thing for E:D, so FD please... please think about the future legacy of your game. Oh robske, you need to get off the floor and put that rig at a desk your gonna kill yourself... and I agree you have to tidy up them cables hehe

Agreed, its called future proofing your game. Modding keeps games alive forever and mods usually can't be done in online only games unless you can create your own servers (ahem like Freelancer). So as long as Chris Roberts takes a page out of his own book SC/Squadron 42 should be around for a long time. I only want the same thing for E:D, so FD please... please think about the future legacy of your game. Oh robske, you need to get off the floor and put that rig at a desk your gonna kill yourself... and I agree you have to tidy up them cables hehe Agreed. And why does everyone note the clusterfuck of cables but doesn't note the alpha centauri poster which came with the original retail box?

I was wondering past evening why E:D didn't walk the Freelancer sp-mp model. It would be the perfect compromise imo.Because he has/had a VISION.Shouldn't this be moved to the MMO section?

 Shouldn't this be moved to the MMO section? Good point moving E:D forum to the MMO area. And I hope the vision is a good one

I was only irritated because I have said in other posts that these two development leads for FD and RSI are icons in this gaming genre and us as gamers kind of hold them to a standard. If you want to say a certain respect is given to them. Why? Because they have earned it with the games they have made in past, so as gamers we also deserve the same respect as consumers of their games. Just to pick up a point here they may be both gaming industry icons but I would say that Roberts has the high profile of the two of them and that to certain extent that the development of Elite Dangerous has been led on by what Star Citizen has been doing but in doing so Frontier have failed to manage the fanboys expectations which have far outstripped the reality of the game and we may be for a few other surprises when the game is released on the 16 of Dec. And why does everyone note the clusterfuck of cables but doesn't note the alpha centauri poster which came with the original retail box?  That's because cable are for life not just Christmas. :biggrin:

Good point moving E:D forum to the MMO area.You can't imagine how sad I am with this move.I feel like an idiot having pledged £90 for an MMO... I mean for an MMO... I still can't believe it. :suicide:

Reading back how it was advertised and how it became, it sounds pretty much like this (without the humor) 

You can't imagine how sad I am with this move.I feel like an idiot having pledged £90 for an MMO... I mean for an MMO... I still can't believe it. :suicide: Given your reward tier was supposed to give you access to a DRM free version of the game and given they seems to go[/url] the sane way regarding refunds, you have a good shot at getting your money back if you want to.

I prefer to play online, But I expected this game to provide an offline mode as announced in the past. For me it was obvious that Elite will be an offline game with the option to play online if desired. Now they just slapped many supporters in the face, but I am sure there will be an offline version in the future. They just could not make it for release but the shitstorm will make them consider the options again.