SpaceSimCentral

Actually, some of it is in place.Every body already has a metallicity value determined by the star type. There is of course randomness introduced, so not all bodies around a star with a high value will have a high value and not all stars of a type with high value will have a high value.With the mining laser and a cargo scoop one can mine bodies that are classified as asteroids. Deimos, Phobos, Nereid, and Proteus are the Sol bodies classed as such.There has been discussion of other mining methods such as a mining machine that can be deployed on larger bodies.

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Every body already has a metallicity value determined by the star type. There is of course randomness introduced, so not all bodies around a star with a high value will have a high value and not all stars of a type with high value will have a high value.
Metalicity and available materials are not quite the same. It's all a question of what is available in the crust (since anything hanging around in the core isn't much use). That's why we can predict asteroid compositions relatively accurately, but planetary crusts are somewhat of a different matter. As far as I know something along the lines of crust composition is planned for the generator, so it just doesn't make sense to hack something together on my own. I'll only have to change it again afterwards...
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There has been discussion of other mining methods such as a mining machine that can be deployed on larger bodies.
Well, once there is something on planets to mine, I would expect something like the good old M5 mining machine to come around the corner pretty fast.

UncleBob wrote:
Metalicity and available materials are not quite the same. It's all a question of what is available in the crust (since anything hanging around in the core isn't much use).

Actually, a comment in the code states that the metallicity value is for the crust.
UncleBob wrote:
That's why we can predict asteroid compositions relatively accurately, but planetary crusts are somewhat of a different matter.

The mining laser only working on asteroids has more to do with the asteroid not having enough gravity to pull the spawned mining output down to it's surface before the player has a chance to scoop it.
UncleBob wrote:
As far as I know something along the lines of crust composition is planned for the generator,

Probably better being done on demand as it won't be needed that often, though as far as Lua is concerned it makes no difference.
UncleBob wrote:
so it just doesn't make sense to hack something together on my own. I'll only have to change it again afterwards...

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you should. Best done in the game code anyway for consistency and speed. Also, the relevant values haven't been exposed to Lua. I was just trying to clarify that some of the work towards mining has been done.Speaking of which, s20dan has been hacking on mining a bit in one of his branches.

blowing my own trumpet here:anyone like the twists I suggested?failing that the 'go here, take pics, return' and the 'data scoop' device surely have merits or am I missing the motive on this one

it's certainly an option, and pretty easy to do, so i don't see why i shouldn't add it. One thing, though: there's no way to evaluate the pictures you take, so a bonus for actualy pretty pictures as opposed to just random shots cannot be arranged, i'm afraid.

that is true, but taking a photo a different altitudes could trigger different results that give a semblance of this and then of course the player is role-playing the mission so they'd probably make an effort.. those that don't are just 'grinding' and good on them if that's the way the want to play it

UncleBob wrote:
One thing, though: there's no way to evaluate the pictures you take, so a bonus for actualy pretty pictures as opposed to just random shots cannot be arranged, i'm afraid.
Not exactly. It could be arranged so that when the "photo" is taken we look at what's currently being drawn. If there was a single object for a station or outpost or whatever, we can check if all of it is on screen, how close to the centre of the screen it is, how much of the screen it fills, etc, and then use that data to come up with some kind of rating.

robn wrote:
Not exactly. It could be arranged so that when the "photo" is taken we look at what's currently being drawn. If there was a single object for a station or outpost or whatever, we can check if all of it is on screen, how close to the centre of the screen it is, how much of the screen it fills, etc, and then use that data to come up with some kind of rating.
This immediately makes me think of the game Dead Rising where you can take photos and it rates you for drama, action, artistic merit and eroticism etc :)Obviously we'd be looking for other criteria but a bit of projected screen area calculation, determine if another ships is "on fire" <-- loose terminology alert! All that sort of thing and we could certainly rate images.

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Obviously we'd be looking for other criteria but a bit of projected screen area calculation, determine if another ships is "on fire" <-- loose terminology alert! All that sort of thing and we could certainly rate images.
Just don't expect me to write the algorithm, I can't even rate images myself, let alone teach a computer to do it!
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Speaking of which, s20dan has been hacking on mining a bit in one of his branches.
Yup, I know. I'm waiting for that branch to merge again...

Sorry for the thread renaming, I hope there's no confusion. I just thought I don't need to open a new thread for every silly idea.The basics of the survey missions are done, but to make them really worthwhile I will need to wait for some additions to the source code. Main reason is that currently there's no meaningfull way for the world to communicate with the player except via BB, and of course a BB is what we don't have somewhere in the outback of the galaxy. And for stuff like unregistered settlers showing up, secret installations getting discovered and similiar stuff, a short message on the scanner is just not enough. So, I'll put the survey missions on hold for the time being until I can implement them the way I want to (relevant feature requests have been posted on GitHub, so I should get those features at some time).But, surveys are not the only thing that I have in mind. Next up is Bounty Hunting.Yes, we have assasinations, but it's not quite the same thing. Bunty Hunting can actually be legal... or it cannot, depending on who put the bounty out on whoms head. The major difference in a bounty hunt is that you don't exactly know where your quarrel is. You'll get a name and a last known position from your employer, and then off you go searching. Of course, you cannot search the whole galaxy, so there will be helpfull people aka Info-brokers that will sell you information if they have it. That information will cost more or less based on how specific it is (you won't buy the cat in the bag. You will have information on how specific the information sold will be before you pay up and receive it). A possibility that comes to mind would be that information could also be obtained for free at the local police, although they have somewhat less reliable inteligence than the people working in the business, and only if the individual in question is a criminal. The question here would be wheather or not it is possible to add stuff to the police section of the board, a thing I'm not quite clear about yet.Anyways, the more info-brokers you ask the more money you will spend on hunting down your prey and the more risk you run that one of them will sell some information back to your prey and inform him that somebody's looking for him, which results in the culprit being better prepared and more heavily armed when you find him. Or him sending some goons after you, depending on how powerfull the man is you're trying to take out. Especially if the bounty isn't legal, asking around too much can become a liability, so paying a little extra to get better information might well be worth it.Sooner or later you will find your quarrel hiding somewhere on a desolate moon or jetting around the galaxy, from then on there's nothing left except to go in for the kill and collect your bounty.As a a little side bonus, information brokers will not only sell info about currently active bounties, but also sensitive information about current freight traffic. Want to know if there's a ship leaving the system that might be worth robbing? here you go. Sounds fun? any Ideas what might add to the expierience? Any Ideas what other information a broker might sell that could be worthwhile?

Who has been playing Mass Effect 2 then? Yes I like this idea Uncle Bob. Info brokers selling information, to help you in following up leads to the location of your target. Yes that would be very satisfying if you just chased someone across multiple star systems. Would you have to assume that all the information you pay for is accurate though? What would happen if someone gave you a mis-leading.....er lead?

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Who has been playing Mass Effect 2 then?
Well, it's not like they invented the concept. And I didn't play LOTSB, unfortunately.
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What would happen if someone gave you a mis-leading.....er lead?
Player frustration is what would happen, I assume. It is imaginable if you generate a plot in which the misleading information has some meaning and impact and can therefore be reflected as such, but I'm not aiming that high (yet). If you buy information and just don't find anything at the location without any explanation whatsoever, people will only shout "BUG!".

Or mis-leading info could lead you into an ambush

The mission ideas floated so far sound great, and they got me thinking. Understanding some of these might require tech that isn't present currently, or might never be practical, here are some scenarios that struck me:Tailing: Following a ship across multiple jumps to see where it docks/lands, then reporting its final destination to the client in a timely manner. (would require an AI flight plan and some way of detecting you've visited its landing spot, not sure if this is feasible). But it would be exciting, especially if you might be led beyond your own operating range or into an ambush.Chauffer: You're hired to fly a VIP to another system, then wait for them to finish their business, and fly them home.Quest: Search for a reputed alien artifact in some distant system, and either fly within a certain range of it, or find a way to bring it home (if it even truly exists). Might even be orbiting (or hovering stationary) over a planet/moon, or floating free in interplanetary space. Maybe a monolith type object, too big to fit in your cargo hold? You might be tempted to use mining lasers on it, and bring home a sample, not knowing if it will defend itself in such a case. (I expect this would require a ton of new code).Messenger/mail carrier: The Pioneer universe is like the Age of Sail, where the speed of ships is the speed of communication. I imagine there'd be a great demand for both pony-express-style rapid courier missions and slower bulk mail/email message delivery, either for governmental mail services or corporate communications. It could be a good way to earn money, and there'd be a certain amount of risk in the less-traveled systems.Traveling Salesman: A company gives you 100t of some specialty product (cosmetics, fitness gear that doesn't work, commemorative coins) for you to unload as fast as possible, with the greatest profit. It's up to you to find a market and sell it. To simplify the bookkeeping, the conceit is that you BUY the goods at a reduced rate, then keep whatever profits you make from the sales. Perhaps this is done solely through the BB system, so you'd visit a station and look for a "Want to buy XX" message that matches the goods in your manifest?Special Delivery: A corporation needs 100t of computers from system X within a certain time frame. Big bonus if you deliver ahead of schedule.Coast Guard/Combat Patrol: Fly to a starport/space station and patrol for a certain period of time, standing ready to defend against raiders. Perhaps you need to fly within a certain distance of ships going in and out, in order to scan them for contraband.Refugees: A civil war/plague on some world creates a situation where your ship is pressed into service evacuating the inhabitants to other worlds in that system, as quickly as possible. Would require life support for the cargo hold, and a fast or large ship. Each trip would lessen the number of evacuees, until the number reaches 0 or the crisis passes.Canvasser: You're tasked with delivering junk mail/religious pamphlets to a series of outposts.

some nice ideas here. The "pony express" is pretty much the same as a delivery mission though, and the traveling salesman would be too much like normal trade. It might be an option to get the goods for free, and keep 10 percent or so of what you sell, (bookkeeping should be possible, i think), so it becomes an alternative for traders that find themselfes too short on money to fill up their holds.I like the trailing. No problem over one jump, but i don't know exactly if hyperspace clouds will be spawned when you enter the system, if the ship in question has already left the system. Should be doable somehow, though, and is actually quite a nice idea to include in the bounty hunting i'm currently writing...

UncleBob wrote:
I like the trailing. No problem over one jump, but i don't know exactly if hyperspace clouds will be spawned when you enter the system, if the ship in question has already left the system.
Departure clouds in one system will automatically be turned into arrival clouds in the next system the player jumps to if the cloud dest is the same system. Everything else is under script control. You set your script controlled ship to jump, and then wait for onEnterSystem (you'll get it regardless of whether or not the player beats your ship to the system). Once you get it, you do whatever is appropriate - fly to a starport, jump away again, whatever.If you were to keep track of where your target ship is jumping to, then you can check where the player is in onEnterSystem. If its not the same system your target jumped to, then you could fail the mission instantly. Or, if you wanted to be tricky, you could simulate the target moving around other systems just by searching for nearby systems and updating your data. If the player did enter the system where the target is, then you re-spawn the ship from scratch.You could make that even more interesting by giving the player clues or rumours about the mark's location via the bulletin board or comms.

The only one of those that isn't totally doable right now is the Quest mission, because we don't have custom cargo and equipment yet. The Coast Guard mission would be complex to code. The Pony Express one is pretty much already in place, although I did also have an idea for a sub-bulletin board of general mail for transport. I didn't bother taking it any further on the grounds that we already have half a squillion delivery missions in the average BBS.

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Departure clouds in one system will automatically be turned into arrival clouds in the next system the player jumps to if the cloud dest is the same system.
I figured that much by now. The question is, if a ship jumps from my system to another system, and then imediately jumps another system ahead before I arive at the interim system, will the system contain the hyperspace departure cloud? I would think not, but I really don't know. If not, is it possible to spawn a hyperspace cloud?

UncleBob wrote:


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Departure clouds in one system will automatically be turned into arrival clouds in the next system the player jumps to if the cloud dest is the same system.
I figured that much by now. The question is, if a ship jumps from my system to another system, and then imediately jumps another system ahead before I arive at the interim system, will the system contain the hyperspace departure cloud? I would think not, but I really don't know. If not, is it possible to spawn a hyperspace cloud?
It won't jump before you arrive, because your script can't tell it to jump before it physically exists, and things only physically exist in the player's system. The earliest that your script could tell it to jump would be at the player's onEnterSystem event, or the ship's onEnterEvent if (and only if) the ship's is later than the player's.

Yeah, makes sense...