SpaceSimCentral

If the only way to do that from now on is via a mod pack, is that so bad? No it's wash no bad , but the LMR system is just disable on the source , and most of theses models are in lua . So at the realease a32 , in the actual developpement of the source , we can't make a rapid add on , these models must neccessary convert in sgm system . ... i'm a fan of pioneer , and of course of the frontier universe but ... i gest i just using the a31 of pioneer . 

Thank you Geraldine. You wrote many of the things I was thinking. It's necessary to stop for a second, calm down and think with a clear mind.What has changed? In the core game there will be no more references to Elite. But nobody prevents those who want to create mod with the models of your choice.The modelling system has been changed and now its features are incomplete. It's understandable. It has been changed very recently. I think it is in the interest of all, bring it to the same level as the previous one. I think that nobody wants to make pejorative changes.I think that many of the angriest comments and harsh responses are born from pride and ego. It's normal... and quite common, even in many free software projects (Debian also had grown a certain reputation, from this point of view). But once you understand this, you can stop for a moment, change your perspective and start thinking in a quite more rational and less overly emotional way.And if you think you may be oppressed by some big power, you may think that, if you wish, you can fight not only directly in order to overthrow it, but you can try to work around it by creating autonomous zones in which to develop what you want. I am sure that in this case, contrary to what happens in everyday life, no one would try to prevent it.

So at the realease a32 , in the actual developpement of the source , we can't make a rapid add on , these models must neccessary convert in sgm system .And that's only because we don't want to maintain LMR anymore, for reasons that have been enumerated ad nausaeum. You're free to continue using alpha 31, as you do, or get the LMR code out of mothballs and prepare your own builds and release them, or whatever else you want to do with that code.

@ Robn , You perfectly know that i'm not a coder , so don't tell me i'm free to use LMR system. "or get the LMR code out of mothballs" Hey guy i'm not Gernot so please stop be so arrogant . you can say that about LMR system when a builder can make a complete model with your "Rolls" SGM ( anim , ligth , etc , etc)

thanks friend, as usual you're the light in darkness. yes i know i still can contribute via mods, and i decided quite a while ago to feel comfortable with it, simply because i keep control then over my work and don't have to fear someone "destroys" them. but on the other hand, i mean it get's hard to impossible with the SGM, not that i can't handle it, no, but neither the sidie wil look as good as she did now.that's the point. but before one claims i can't handle SGM or blender, certainly such makes me wild...you can give me the modelling tool you like, i can work with it.that's the BIGGEST profit i got out of the LMR, thanks again TomM, to me this was the best training, not to replace and you can't buy with no money.you have to DO it, really that was a great thing, understanding how models WORK FOR REAL, that can't be learned no where else, pressing a button anyone can do,setting up a script needs a little more will.AND what could be possible with 3D models if one is not to tightminded to accept this as good and not as overhauled and ancient.IT IS (was) the most sophisticated modelling system, imho.but pure blindness and egoism has brought it to fall. 500£ or not, i don't needed that, it pleases me to model with the LMR.the result iis UNIQUE SGM is like all the rest LMR there was only oneonly one that can offer you full freedomwith limitations of coursebut if i compare the limitations of one with the limitations of the other, well LMR is best.super hard sometimes impossible to program a proper conrod, ok, but look at all the rest.but exactly this is unwanted now,why? but strangewisely, i have never seen a WIP of him, how could that be?you can go anywhere where modellers meet, for sure each is proud to show off his latest stuff he's up to.it's a sort of our pride, we like to show off our work, we like to compete.also exchange of knowledge and experience, because certainly you gain some interest. but his models are "complete" and unchanged since i saw them first, that looks suspicious to me. well if it would be a commercial project of course, fixed timepoint and no changes afteward, but they aren't that finished.so explain me (or to yourself) what could be the logical reason? --- some WIP's of mine ;)to show that i work, i'm no plagiator, i copy yes, but i'm no plagiator.i know scale and size well and reallyto tell a construction worker who measures alignment with the eye better as any laser tool can do, that's not only bad, it's stupid.if i mount a large aircondition tube, diameter 500 - 1000mm you can be sure it's 100% straight, without a laser and without a balance.only with my eye and my experience.i can tell you "blindfolded" if something is rectangular or not. now telling me my stuff is scaled wrong is like you would say "newton was wrong", sorry. and stop using imperial measurements, if something is really ancient then this, it should be banned since 200 years, imho.but if i think, we had that to, every county has had it's own "tentacle lenghts", what a confusing shitty situation, industry can't work with such.(but it's very good to cheat with it, you can make a lot of profit if measuring is not uniform)thus we have the french uniform meter.but well i guess it was because it's french....besides of that i'm still wondering how you can work exactly with something that ends up always in irregular fractions? just for those whoi think i can't...it's still "elite content", forgive me the new cobra mk1 [url]http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/files/download/993-mod-cobra-mk-i-sgm-30-1/[/url] a absulutely overhauled eagle, "who wouldn't like this as a starting ship"well marcel, robn, luomo and brain wouldn't like it. [url]http://spacesimcentral.com/ssc/files/download/994-mod-eagle-long-range-fighter-mk-ii-mk-iii/[/url] show me a wrong size here or in any model i made (not the ones luomo destroyed) --- ah, names ok i named him here, it wasn't you robn but i guess you stand fully behind him, no Q for me. --- yep tourist we ar no coders but you know it's no secret, it can be learned, like everything.i guess i can, would need some time but i know i'm able, there is not much you can't learn if you have the will to. a learned a lot and if i guess, many autodidactibleto go to a school and learn anyone can, to learn autodidactible is something quite different and of course i'm proud of such.unfortunately you won't have any degree, but what counts that if you do it better?ah it costs salary, yeah thinking in $but i don't think in $i think in **** **** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** *** 's

Cannot download. The site says that I have not enough rights to do so.

me too :/

Always thought Pioneer should lose the Frontier look and become it own game. 

your sometimes funny robn, first you say you like to hear names (while i think each knows for sure for what he is responsible or not, isn't it?) then you say you dislike personal affronts so this is like to force me to tell a name and in the same sentence to call this a bad behave. hey, i'm no idiot, stop such threadbare psychotricks. could be i'm wrong but i guess not, the facts speak for themselves. --- well fluffyfreak, i'm not sure with what exactly robn served me, the LMR has existed already. dumping the tard? gosh the dumped models are absolutely useless, you can't work with that. what you see here and further conversions from the LMR are extracted with OGLE. with that i got a proper scaled export of the main model and all submodels scaled proper and in proper position.i won't get a LOD1 exported where no LOD1 exists (what the dumped files will contain). i don't have to examine the script to find out in a long way how they are scaled and where they belong to. (and to export a wavefront, you wil say yes it's useless they exist in the models folder already so why should one dump it?) the only leak is loss of smoothing when i use GLXtractor, but that's a minor issue compared to what i get from a model dump. also i get from the extraction each geometry seperately and not only split by use of materials. well, after i examined it, because i really thought it could be handy, i found out, "useless" i can't work with that. it's no tool you can export a model and use it, that's obvious, but it's even not a tool useful to rebuild it. i'm sorry, this effort was needless for me, i can't use it and i won't use it, because it didn't deserves the longings i have. just imagine someone else would have liked to convert the eagle (ahh... now i know why you said the pilot is 30ft tall, wheels stick oout of the hull, yes from the dumped models, ja that clarifyies a lot) how would he know how the stuff is scaled?he had to examine the scriptand if it's a sub-model, even the sub-models script to find the right scale of the exported object.submodels unscaled and positioned to their own center, means all animated objects are centered logically at vector 0,0,0sized like they was scripted. but you have to know, let's say a simple recess for a landing gear.ok, you take for this either some quads,a extrusionor the cuboid function. to make it easy you take values like 1,2,3then you scale and position the sub-model on the ship, that's why everything is "wrong" when dumped, it didn't respects the scale given in the call for the sub-model.e.g i call then the complete assambled undercarriage with"call_model(v(10,-2,5),v(1,0,0),v(0,1,0),0.25)" as example dumped it returns the model at v(0,0,0) scale 1, for the undercarriage sub-model.now usually such a undercarriage sub-model contains further sub-models, needed to animate the stuffeach of this sub-models has again untransformed scale, rotation and position. finally that looks as worse as a reimported .x mesh with all parts exploided or centered to v0,0,0. that's why it's to clumsy for me to use it and imagine someone else would like to rebuild a scripted model on base of this.it get's horrible. it will take more time, i swear you, to rebuild it as i needed to script it. meaner, if i have a submodel rotated i.e simply in the way of v(0,0,1),v(0,1,0)dumped it's v(1,0,0),v(0,1,0), original alignment before the sub-model was called up in the "final" model (or a further step, conrods and constrained animations need various sub-models to make this work) ergo it returns "junk", sorry i won't harm yours with that, but it's true, i can't work with the dumped stuff.i could, but to examine the script for every little shit is boring and complicated. and guess it's my model, i mean i roughly know how scale is or where they belong to, but someone else?

cannot download? erm, hey you "rocket fuel engineer", that's your part, check them out and release it

:crazypilot: 

i ment pinback he's the "rocket fuel engineer", he's moderator (a very moderate one)and he would have to examine them first i guess.

Походу некто - несско не трезв...

You perfectly know that i'm not a coder , so don't tell me i'm free to use LMR system.The alternative is that the devs use their time to maintain it. Do you think its fair to make that demand?

first you say you like to hear names (while i think each knows for sure for what he is responsible or not, isn't it?)If you want to call me out on something, make it clear that you're talking to me. then you say you dislike personal affrontsNobody likes personal attacks. But if you're going to do it, make sure I know its directed at me and its clear what you're accusing me of.Seriously. Point at where I've outright lied. Show me where I've said that I want to get rid of you, or misrepresented you, or deliberately tried to make you look bad. And then we can talk.I won't be commenting further on LMR, other than to acknowledge its demise when alpha 32 is released.Meanwhile, this thread is about the removal of Frontier Developments IP, which is only loosely related. I wonder if someone can bring it back on topic?

The alternative is that the devs use their time to maintain it. Do you think its fair to make that demand? Hem , i ask that since the dev team tell us they delete LMR !!! Do you have some memory problem? you don't remenber i'm Vuzz maybe ??? Ok , I don't really like these sort of antipodic humour . maybe in your country it's a fashion ...

the problem is it can't be done with SGM. yes partially, but only partially it will never be the same, never. change ships or names if you like, but the differences between LMR and the new SGM are EXTREME one is a flexible but hard to maintain, rather cool and absolute unique way to create models. the other is as all the rest, and exactly this i dislike, as all the rest, limits are the same if not more actually. you can get a SGM or similar in any game, but the lua modelling resource is unique. it opens doors if one catched that once, closed doors and with removing they will stay closed or be closed again. i never like to see pioneer as "any game".probably because i'm not like "any guy". robn you say that something like the LMR is, let's say ancient (taking it out of the mothballs) explain me why rodina uses a similar lua based modelling system? because what this guy has in mind can only be done in this way, it's not ancient, it's ahead of time.yeah it's based on a ancient way of modelling that's true, but that doesn't mean that it's not ahead of all the rest. true you said if one started to create cockpits and pilots everyone will have.yeah, exactly that's the point it's ahead! why doesn't it have existed or it is often very limited an mostly you see 2dimensional stuff still?because what exists can't fulfill that, machines can, they handle it like nothing.the actual machine i own is a last years cheap supermarket model.but it's to me a giant upgrade and pioneer runs flawless on it, i even can make screencaptures at 20fps and the game runs fluid. again new things can only be found when you start at 0. something like the SGM isn't point 0, it's the end point of a development, further you can't go in this way, end of the road one could say. scripted models have no "end of the road", it hasn't started out right yet. the future will certainly not bring old systems, because they can't deserve the longings of players anymore. he, he, especially if one started once to show what else would be possible.and especially if players catch once how easy customizable that is compared to the rest.that everyone can have his very personal ship, car, whatever vessel in any game.in his fav. color, with his fav. decal on it and his fav. type of pilot (not only for flight or space sims to understand)probably with his face on the pilots head, everyone like to identify himself with what he owns in a game.it's MY CITYit's MY CARit's MY PLANEit's MY SUBand MY VESSEL shouldn't look as my brothers vessel, obviuosly it's true it makes no difference to gameplay, but who wouldn't like it to personalize the stuff?i like that very much, and because of this fact in MY NFS4, the Beatles are the drivers. (george drives a lightweight jaguar type-e, ringo a silvershadow DB4 aston martin, i.e.classic sports cars of course, what do you expected? besides i drive in the game a Lagonda V12 Le Mans, it's MY CAR, it's a overpowered 2tons heavy beast)it's MY NFS4. robn, in FE2 to get the proper ship, my beloved conny, with the leopard design and the jaws, best in greenor a yellow tiger trader same design,i wiil use one or more year in the game only to get this ship, it's MY SHIP!then i open the savegame and enter as reg.nr. GERNOT i.e. it's MY SHIP! that was yesterday, today i would like to personalize all, even the pilot, if possibleit's MY SHIP yeah in rodina you can walk through the ship, or it's planned to do so. that's the FUTURE not "we don't like cockpits and blinking lights", that was yesterday when it wasn't possible for many reasons. --- i noticed that you called him up to help us out, do you really think a character like him is interested to work with some who can't see the future?a character who is able to do this all himself? and i thought i'm naive.

you can get a SGM or similar in any game, but the lua modelling resource is unique.That's it, right there. That's the big problem with LMR. When we only had LMR, we often had modellers coming along to offer their abilities to us, only for them to retract the offer and leave once they realised that their skills could not be applied and that they'd need to learn a new, unique system.Now we're using the sort of system that other games use, we've made the game accessible to many thousands of modellers, and we're already getting contributions.In any case, as ever, you're going off topic. This thread's about the removal of those parts of the game which belong to Frontier Developments, and not to us. Sure, this means that your Imperial Courier would be removed from the game. It doesn't belong in Pioneer any more than your X-Wing Fighter does. It's somebody else's property, and we're not licensed to use it.

as long as we (you, who ever, in which project ever) have no ambition to commercialise it, there is no problem using copyrighted content, or to get more precisely, using rebuild or leaned on a existing thing. AND most of all, show me ONE, only ONE spaceship someone made which is NOT inspired by either a sci-fi movie, tv-series, or novel.even "elite content" is leaned on a lot of things that has alrerady existed, starts with the aircraft design of the eagle and ends with the "woodlouse" design of the lanner. any idea you can have in this direction has existed already, mor or less, even if i take a underwater snail as idea, it has existed, in nature (most copied artist, has no rights unfortunatly). reason is that the human fantasy even in their wildest dreams is not able to produce something that you wouldn't have seen already in some sort. that is even when the design is leaned on a bitten hamburger and olives on a cocktail stick, it has existed, as a hamburger in this case (YT-1300). thinking about that, anything is a copy of something that already exists(that's why all this copyright hustle is a stupid mess organized by some who didn't know how to make money tomorrow, or have no quality except to hunt after such, vampires one could say. they have no talent no quality neither any output, only sucking blood) it isn't possible for no artist to make something that hasn't existed in one or the other way. or is a combination or rearrangement of something that exists. FACT IS: everything is a copy of mother nature though, if one would have the right at all on any copyright it would be her. but those people who hunt for copyright infringements have certainly nothing to do with that and aren't even able to create something, not even a copy of something. so far my statement to this copyright bla bla. JOIN COPYLEFT! --- but do what you like,and i mean this without sarcasm, do it! it is in some sort a good decision in some sort a bad. personally i guess, yours should have chosen a different game to destroy. removing LMR and elite content isn't pioneer anymore, at least many players see it in this way. yours have and i have foreseen this two years ago made your own game of it,without taking respect to the longings of the fans. --- to all modellers, you better get comfortable with scripted content. assembling models like it's done in the SGM will be past soon, there we have reached the end of a development. if you like to go further there is only the way of a script (doesn't have to be specific LMR, but some script that gives you the flexibility needed in future) that gives you the right tools. of course you won't have to mess with things like "bezier quads", but to assemble the stuff and to make it alive.you will further work with a software of course, but only assembling in a script makes it possible to respect the many things needed. it starts with simple stuff like a scanner antenna, and you certainly don't like to see a scanner someone else has designed if one can give you the freedom do design your own. --- the near future will be i can walk around in and outside my ship, not "we don't like cockpits". this qustion when i showed off my stuff here in switzerland i heard often: "can i even...?" --- "and i thought i'm the 20th century guy here, at least i here that often that i live in the past.well, yes i do live in the past, only who knows the past can see the future." i'm damned good in predicting,MMO and Wii i have foreseen 1985! (as well as the fall of ussr, or many other things people only shook their head)don't ask me how the people looked then at me,"from where wil you, (especialy me, a "nobody") know this?" "the riders of the blue sky have told me so" call me "bub" or "nowhere man" if you like

further, i didn't see many conflicts between "elite dangerous" and "pioneer", especially for the models part, because what i have seen so far, doesn't shows anything that has existed in elite or FE2, there will certainly be no eagle in the old design. for places like "lave" it's something different, it's something that you can port to any future release of a "elite".but "lave", as you said yourself is only a name, nothing more, it's exchangable. but we the fans, we like the old eagle as starting ship,we like this direct reminescence of FE2/FFE, at least i was convinced it is so. nah, no question,ask geraldine,ask marcel,ask the bunch of pioneer players from the first hour, sorry, but i feel WE are pioneer. --- personally i think sometimes; "damned gernot you must be better as you ever thought, it seems they fear competition with you". because sorry, yes the courier is a copy, but a damned good copy. further it's half a year or a year ago, you was convinced that our ships, designed new, haven't much to do with what was present in FE2/FFE.leaned on, but new designed. what is left as logical reason is only one, we have one who likes to control the design of pioneer and nothing that didn't fits to his imagination we will see in pioneer!it seems to me he fears competition that much that he had to bann everyone who could be "dangerous" for him, a real "softball", imho. this, and walterar is 100% right, is not longer pioneer.