SpaceSimCentral

Who needs Elite 4? I bet that after the production team got to see what fans were doing on the Indy scene, they just gave up.I've tried nearly all of the elite clones. Pioneer is by far those most well developed platform I've seen. The fact that the crew here has Pioneer released for all the major platforms is exciting.The only comparative elite sim out there in my opinion is the Evercron series. The only issue there is that I now have a Mac and I don't feel like buying Windows just to play Evercron. One fallback of Evercron is the lack of orbital physicals that is present in Pioneer. In fact Pioneer does it better - no more crashing and burning at the takeoff from the Lava station.This is such a nifty platform, I wish I had more time right now to help develop it.

right on commander leaving lave station (4 pics)

Firstly, welcome to the SSC XB7. I know you have been a member for a while, but its nice to see a post from you <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Yea, Pioneer has a great team of devs behind it and it's features increase with every release. The only thing that I still struggle with sometimes is that it took the Frontier fans themselves to bring this game into reality. By all that's holy, Braben & Co should have done this YEARS ago. I still watch and wait that perhaps SOMETHING (Elite related) ,apart from furry animal games, comes out of his dev studio. But its been a heck of a long wait since '97 <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//sad.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />Also I would urge you XB7 not to forget about Oolite, sure it doesn't have the physics, but it's heart is in the right place and it too has a fine community of devs behind it. <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />I always wonder though what those Russians are upto over there with FFE3D. Personally, I would love to see all 3 of these great games reach a level that makes the series what it is and should continue to be, the original and best space sim series ever <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

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The only thing that I still struggle with sometimes is that it took the Frontier fans themselves to bring this game into reality
naja, i wouldn't say struggle, but i really would have liked a E4, besides first that allways comes to my mind "Elite" is not a "chartbreaker", more a long endurance runner. games like this havn't a big reception today i guess, so the interest to release something like that is not big (what has happened to the X-Box game? never heard much about it? you remember last summer...)it's cool that Oolite is still under development, wherefore FFED3D is "closed" i guess, i really wish Dreamzz wouldn't had been to "scary" to share his "Game Studio" project with others (i'm pretty sure he used XNA game studio to build a "wrapper" for JJFFE, 1st that's why there is no source code, they use a own system to exchange project data, 2nd the shader scripts equals exactly to a older XNA version, while they differ a little from standard DX shader scripts)but i don't know under what conditions it was made and likewise i never published a model i made on the cracked 3dsmax (blender saved my life ).besides, actually i havn't the patience for such, but i guess one could do the same with a actual games development environment, perhaps even a multiplatform, but like i said it's not my strength, my strength are spaceships.

Geraldine wrote:
... not to forget about Oolite, sure it doesn't have the physics, but it's heart is in the right place...
If one could somehow blend the physics qualities of Pioneer with the gameplay qualities of Oolite - now that would be a real time-sink! A very difficult trick to pull-off, that would be - and it probably ain't happening any time soon!

I'd say the exact opposite! I think there's some great mods for oolite that make it look quite cool but I've only ever got into frontier(/Pioneer) because I find Oolite/elite much less user friendly. And FFE we all know was a bit of a mess (though I hope some day they add in some of FFE's extra bits - Journal/Newspapers/storylines/(weak)scripted missions, etc! Though probably too much effort to be worth it just for a bit of extra 'immersion' I bet no one ever read them anyway! And also CLOUDS! Even though they're just blobs, I really liked the clouds in FFE. Pioneer has got it just right (actually makes me want to learn code/modelling! In fact I might actually try, i' really want to add some 'realistic' ships ie, real future spaceship concepts and stuff). Also when they've gotten around the 'space backdrop' problem and prettied it up a bit (I pray for nebulae!) Pioneer will look awesome!!

"Cody" wrote:
If one could somehow blend the physics qualities of Pioneer with the gameplay qualities of Oolite - now that would be a real time-sink! A very difficult trick to pull-off, that would be - and it probably ain't happening any time soon!
Well, that's why that "mods" folder sits there, patiently waiting for a future "PXP". You guys on the Oolite forum showed the way with your oxps, its a great way to add lots of cool stuff to Oolite and its my hope Pioneer will do likewise sometime in the future.Oh and spazeman? Gernot kindly posted a helpful guide to LUA if you fancy a go at creating something.Here is the link again that Gernot posted [url]http://lua.gts-stolb...de/en/index.php[/url] and good luck! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Ha! Thank's geraldine. It's such a friendly vibe here! I'm a product of the British school system so any language other than English, be it spoken or computer, seems a stretch. I know it's the future so i'm going to give it a go just for shits and giggles... in about 6 months time I'll post a behemoth space station perfectly modelled and fitting perfectly into the game!10 points... not for naming the film but naming the robot... (and P66 you've spent too much time with marijuana and VHS tapes so you don't get to guess!)

That looks like Hector from Saturn 3.

Cody wrote:


Geraldine wrote:
... not to forget about Oolite, sure it doesn't have the physics, but it's heart is in the right place...
If one could somehow blend the physics qualities of Pioneer with the gameplay qualities of Oolite - now that would be a real time-sink! A very difficult trick to pull-off, that would be - and it probably ain't happening any time soon!
Oolite is amazing fun. I have nearly 50 oxp's on my install. One of the major attractions for the Oolite OXPs is how well they add content to the Ooniverse without sacrificing the traditional elite atmosphere. I am rather curious though why Pioneer hasn't garnered some of the same attention from players?

Pioneer goes well on the graphics and basic gameplay elements, once it gets as good with the content and ongoing development and then expanding elements of the game into other areas it will be a classic

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Even though they're just blobs, I really liked the clouds in FFE
to sad i can't run theunis frontiermeshes on my mac (wine refuses to), else i could show you how they look exactlysome bezier stuff at least, not a ball array which is used a 1000times in fe2/ffe.i would have on my pc a complete printout of all objects in plain text, thanks even to theunis,if you use windows and have interest in it, check thishttp://www.jongware.com/galaxy7.htmland to make it easier for you to access the files,http://www.jongware.com/binaries/showmesh.zipprints meshes of FFE (FIRSTENC.DAT must be present in the same directory as the proggy, relevant for all his "tools") in "plain text".http://www.jongware.com/binaries/frontiermeshes0905.zipshows the stuff in a viewer.furtherhttp://www.jongware.com/binaries/frontierimages.zipshows all textures of FFEas info,the eagle(s), the sidewinder, the constrictor and the ip shuttle are exact transcriptions from the output of "showmesh"(was for the conny, unfortunately i converted it to .obj, bad idead that was imo).and theunis forgive me please for my "stripping", i'm only a completely addicted FE2 fani know your intention was one has to read your articles to find the proggys and i strip them naked.but i hope some might get attention to your site, it's worth to take a look at friends.http://www.jongware.com/index.html[/hr]and again credits to all of you FE2 addicted, devs, modellers, contributors of storyline and foremost to the community without you it would be a "blob".no crowd, no actsee, before geraldine unleashed it and presented it here on ssc it was a sleeping beauty...little me, came along and noticed the closeness to the original up to the modelling system with LUA, which is in fact not very far from how it was done back then.since this is my declared field of interest i was overwhelmed by it.a reason why i get a little agressive when some like to remove that shit, it's like you tear out my heart. :roll:i do understand that it's a hurdle for modellers and that the LMR has limitations, but on the other hand what is so called "state of the art" has also limitations.to me it's to balance that, means what is what i like? what advantage counts more for me? "lazyness" and i can do all with the CAD and don't have to mess with any code, or flexibility and the possibility to find new solutions for old problems (or vice versa ).and of course the not to replace feeling, like marcel once stated: "fantastic, i enter a few lines of text (code) and get a model afterwards".with something like direct x meshes you are bound to it, no way of doing it different, you have to swallow what NVIDIA an MS has developed no getting around that.besides of that, what we had has left the control over the models to the modeler, with any other you leave the control over your work to others.i see this as a main reason why some like to pull out the LMR, to gain control (sorry for my hard words).but i see it like this, i get not rewarded for my work, but at least i like to dictate how they should look and work.i feel that is the minimum of respect you can give for a modelers work, leave the freedom to him.little elite history,in the beginning i didn't understood why DB and ian bell has departed, money i didn't saw as the reason for it (can be a reason but i guess personal aspects count always more), but hmm, i guess now i understand...and again,the biggest effort is done by you who just play it and give compliments to us...

Do some more FFED3D models Gernot! PLEASE!!Try as I might, I just can't get into Pioneer

nice to hear something from you steve yeah, i thought about you, and believe me i expected exactly this statement since a while could be difficult to serve two masters...but perhaps not a bad idea, you only miss someone when he's gone a typical shitty human behave. we should give roses as long as someone is alive and not cry when he's gone.yeah "old" FFED3D leaks of a lot of models, roundabout 100 or so.steve i have one big problem, actually i can't run FFED3D on my macbook, even "wine" (not the drink) didn't helps.to install a complete virtual windows will consume to much space on the limited HD vol. of ~200GBit would be a little hard to make models when you don't see the result.well, perhaps one of the cracks has a idea how i can get around that problem?my idea is that it's because FFED3D uses a non standard opengl32.dllit's in the dir. of FFED3D and windows allows to use it instead of the standard one located in "system32"on wine in "system32" are only placeholders for the .dll's and the shit is linked to something on the mac.well might be a idea to contact the devs of wine and ask if there is a solution for this problem, besides i can't say if that's the only reason, but i feel so. because it returns the same error message as when i have a "wrong" opengl32.dll in the dir of FFED3D (yet another hint that dreamzz used XNA gamestudio to make FFED3D same opengl32.dll as used in a old version of XNA gamestudio, they differ from standard, i guess to handle the even different shader scripts of XNA), happened to me when i tried to fiddle around with OGLE to see if it's able to catch a model from within the game, hasn't worked, the only thing it was able to "snapshot" from FFED3D was the quad for the dash . of course i know it's not needed you can export models from within FFED3D, but i liked to see if the scale of the exported models is truely 1:1. it is up to certain limits, the model export can't handle the dynamic scaled models of FFE, they get scaled "default", so the export of the courier is sized same as the trader, but i know the trader get's scaled up a little. this problem persists for all dynamic scaled models, e.g. the ECM antennas, which are in FFED3D, when you run it without custom models, are all scaled the same on all ships. far to big on the "poor" eagle and far to small on larger ships.likewise it only respects one side, means the vectors present in the internal model usually only right is listed and if a left mirrored is needed of this vector it's simply flagged different so the program knows "this vector must be mirrored x" (y or z can be mirrored to, there are more flags like "normals" - respect only visible normals, and the stuff needed to seperate thruster vectors from other, vectors needed only to calculate, or dynamic translating vectors for the undercarriage, some vectors have a noise on it thruster "peak" i.e., some are "placeholders" for the equipment, all sorts flagged different)ok, enough bla, bla

oh i have a "friend""doh123"he was asking already the same question about wine and ffed3d...let's see if can handle it.

I take it that's a "no" then? If I couldn't run FFED3D on my computer, that computer would go straight out of the window (or maybe not, because it would land on the roof of my car ) but as you're in that very situation I can understand why you can't do some more models.That's a shame though, because I get the impression you're getting a bit fed up with some aspects of Pioneer, whereas at least you know that a model produced for D3D would work in D3D forever But reading the points you made, well those that I understood (no, not your English, it was just too technical for me) I can see that Pioneer offers much more development potential - hence the title of this thread - whereas D3D has too many limitations eg. the antenna/dish being the same size everywhere so it looks ridiculously big on an Eagle and tiny on a Panther.Still, I thought I'd ask. I guess we don't converse any more because you spend all your time on Pioneer rather than D3D, and I don't play Pioneer

nah, that would be sad, we can do here on the ffed3d thread (havn't visited since i don't know) or frontier forums believe me i haven't forget you and all the rest of ffed3d fans.yeah, throw it out of the window ( the mac ) if it would be mine, but that thing belongs to my mother and i'm happy i can do something at least.sometimes i'm alittle fed up, but you know i'm a hard headed guy, no, even worse head hard as a rock (reason must be the surrounding nature ).i can't promise, i was already happy "oh, a solution..." - "argh, shit doesn't works, but he warned me" (dev. team of wine).i will investigate further in this direction, because i really would like the shit get running on the mac in one or the other way.i still do love FE2 and spent last winter 2 months with playing old amiga FE2 1.05 (on the mac, via E-UAE).warning! off topic "dead set"[attachment=1294:Bildschirmfoto 2012-06-26 um 23.03.50.png]if you wonder about the many lotr, well different versions simply, i found the original english is far best, the map makes the game much harder compared to the "continental" map. also i hacked a little the castle names (troops also) to have more skeletons, living dead, and other eleven.in the same time i was reading "The Pillars of the Earth" it was a perfect trip into the 12th century (and back to youth)....storyline, i always liked to have my own, i guess i'm a little suspective (only a little) about the idea of a given storyline for pioneer exactly because of that.i never spent much attention to FE2's background story, i always had my own, depending on what is moving me actually.likewise above shown idea, play lotr, read pillars of earth.so you can have a bareboned game like FE2 and it's everytime something new.i miss my old buddy to play a round PoC from time to time and wreck a ship in the next harbour or to simply hit some castaways.and also colonial conquest is only fun with a partner to play, no big story to fight and take over each others space colonies, "i smashed you, you...bastard you!"---no i won't give up! i wil find a way, just wait and see, even if i had to roll all back...i guess easiest would be to fix my PC, but i'm to lazy, to less inspired for it.i'm a strange person, i can turn everything to gold if i'm inspired, if not all fails, all breaks into pieces (like my PC).I AM able to throw things out of the window FOR REAL when i'm angry, no matter what cost (if i had a car and i would hit it, i would kick the car for it), wouldn't be the first time. it's just a thing, a pice of trash, nothing that feels any pain. that's why i have no car, but a lot of other things, call me a messy in some sort, i preserve old stuff. i see no reason to buy something new if i think i can fix it, but to fix you need parts, so you have to collect. i had mopeds when i was young (the most rotten and old ones, we went to the junkyard often, that was really different times, junkyards* without rottweilers or other disturbances, junkyards at all where you was free to take as boy what you could use), and a cellar full of motors and gear parts. imagine i would have a car, i would need a hangar.ha, ha, motors, once we tuned a moped motor and clamped it in a vice, then we runned that thing at full power until it was blown to pieces. oh, well i have driven a "Pionier"... would be a real rarity today, it was a rarity back then already to own one, yeah i driven a golden pionier.(storyline of those days? "american graffiti" is there something better the to plunder a pinball machine? even whe the real colors are more grey as in the movies )that's cool there are still some "hillbilly" boys interested in it here, few ones, but you can hear them at night driving their tuned old mopeds, hiding in the bushes to drink a beer and smoke a little, i just love it.the things you can buy doesn't make half of that fun.ok, i had to pay a price, a broken incisor, lot of burned hair and eyebrow, but that's already all i'm aware it could have ended different, but i will never regret that.today i'm older, getting "quiet" and some sort of wise, but never without that.today i know life's for living and not to sink in boredom or safety, there is no safety, you can never know what tomorrow will be.i'm a animal, nothing more, i'm dead already when i was born.to face this fact is the hardest part.if i can have a party TODAY with some boys and i might spend all my money for it, well that's ok!*i had to laugh when i saw not so long ago a clip on tv, where some men covered in protective cloth was exploding spray cans in a fire, protective cloth?barefooted and in shorts! shooting rats with a airgun, that's fun. today? "call for the cops or mind surgery"sometimes i really ask myself what do they fear of exactly? never ask me what i think where todays youth's agression level comes from...i will, tell you anyway... "forbidden", no more freedom for young people, except to "fill their lamps with oil".only because of "stinking rats", which should be shot in the guts with a airgun.call me a proletarian, it's a compliment to me :Da troll sometimes, but a friendly troll and i don't need food...

A game which features a top speed doesn't have the physics qualities of Pioneer.

'Brianetta' wrote:
A game which features a top speed doesn't have the physics qualities of Pioneer.
That´s true, <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />, Independence War 2 has its own qualities, but not exactly the Pioneer ones. But it is very close, and the sense of movement and high quality interface, are amazing.Maybe It is what I like the most in IW2, the cockpit movements and the sense of speed.Greetings.

I'm not sure what you mean by I-War having top speed. Your ships accelerate as long as you keep the thruster keys down.