SpaceSimCentral

This morning before I went to work i did something I have not done ever yet in Pioneer. I clicked on the start at debug point. Got my arse handed to me. Four times.so i turned down all the gfx setting is min to see if the fact I could not hit a barn door while I was stood on it was due to frame rate (shitty 5 year old laptop).To coin a popular wrestlers' phrase, boots2asses another four times.It turns out the ONLY way i can actually hit something is by firing missiles at them. So in nine attempts I win once.I went to work in a foul mood <img src='[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif'[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />so is it my mouse (seems to take the length of the room in movement to turn 180 degrees), my laptop or am I just really pants at shooting in Pioneer....

It requires some patience and a *lot* of practice <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Once you get the hang of it, it becomes easy. Keep your distance and try to stay in control of the fight.. And remember to dodge bullets with the thrusters <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

's2odan' wrote:
It requires some patience and a *lot* of practice <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Once you get the hang of it, it becomes easy. Keep your distance and try to stay in control of the fight.. And remember to dodge bullets with the thrusters <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
ah, the old "how do you get to Carnegie Hall" approach...Yeah the frontier way of shooting I liked as you could just fire that beam and wiggle a little till you hit it but this pulse blob really irkes me <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//angry2.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />never mind, I'll just keep plugging away at it <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//gamer1.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':gamer:' />

Well, I am hoping there will be some changes to the weapons at some point. Of all the criticisms of Pioneer I have come across, the weapons are the number one issue that keeps popping up again and again. Mastering the flight model is in itself, a challenge, but well worth it once you get the hang of it, but the present set-up with the weapons is not helping new players to the game. That much I've seen across many boards on the net even from experienced Frontier and FFE vets.I think the game needs beam weapons. Kinetic weapons were talked about too (for example mini or fast rail guns), but they throw up more problems of their own because of the recoil they cause will throw off your aim.Pioneer is still at alpha, so lets hope some kind coder might look into it. In the meantime Metamartian, keep at it! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//triniti.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':triniti:' />

well i just watched a couple of videos of pioneer flight and realised there is defo something wrong with my mouse movement, i'm going to nick a different one from work to see if it is any better, i can move my mouse a good 10 cm in a direction and the flight direction cursor does not even manage to get from centre of the screen to the edge!

'Geraldine' wrote:
Well, I am hoping there will be some changes to the weapons at some point. Of all the criticisms of Pioneer I have come across, the weapons are the number one issue that keeps popping up again and again. Mastering the flight model is in itself, a challenge, but well worth it once you get the hang of it, but the present set-up with the weapons is not helping new players to the game. That much I've seen across many boards on the net even from experienced Frontier and FFE vets.I think the game needs beam weapons. Kinetic weapons were talked about too (for example mini or fast rail guns), but they throw up more problems of their own because of the recoil they cause will throw off your aim.Pioneer is still at alpha, so lets hope some kind coder might look into it. In the meantime Metamartian, keep at it! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//triniti.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':triniti:' />
then there can be a recoil that only pushes you back and not all the way to hell

The ship thrusters are so ridiculously powerful I think they could counteract a bit of recoil.

'Luomu' wrote:
The ship thrusters are so ridiculously powerful I think they could counteract a bit of recoil.
Yes that's what I thought too Luomu, but I guess it depends on the amount of recoil a gun might have. Just had a thought there, perhaps if you ran out of fuel, you could use kinetic weapons as a makeshift thruster to get you to a port! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//hunter.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hunter:' /> The police might not like that though <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//girl_crazy.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':girlcrazy:' />

I was going to start a Newb Question thread with this as one of the questions but this looks like a good place for this one.If I have a smart and/or guided missiles on board does the "T" button lock those missiles on and guide them there like a heat seeker or radar tracking missile (in earth air 2 air combat)?... I have other newb questions I plan on putting in that thread as soon as I get to posting it.thanks

Isn't the '!! Pioneer Question Time !! - Ask them here' thread the place for newb questions? If they're all in the same thread it makes it easier for people to find them.

Hi Hank, welcome to Pioneer at Space Sim Central.As Marcel stated, one of newb questions are probably better off being asked in the !!Pioneer Question Time!! so as not to clutter up the place but I will answer your question. Provided you have locked onto your target by clicking on the ship you want to fire at so that it has a red target indicator you then simply click on the combat icon (it's a little missile icon above the landing gear/hyerspace icon)and then you simply click the missile you want to fire and whooooosh, it's off.

Thanks to all. And I'll put my noobie ?s in the place indicated.A fun sim this is. I own and have some seat time in I-War, Freelancer, and Freespace. I like this one best for exploration, trading, etc. It seems all those others have more focus on fighting which is fun for a while but I want to see new systems and explore without watching over my shoulder every minute. Plus I can get close and personal with the planets.Have a nice day

You too Hank, and welcome! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_biggrin.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Hope you don't think I was trying to be rude. I just didn't know the answer to your first question.

I think the engine is mature enough to discuss the Combat interface... and I have to say I don't think there is much to change, just a few tweaks to make it a properly immersive interstellar combat game <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />First, I've mentioned it several times and I know it's already there somewhat... the ship NEEDS a telescope!! A nice convenient way to adjust the FOV to zoom in on a Target would be invaluable.Second, I think we need a proper mass driver for a cannon. Adjustable shot velocity and rate of fire... and the ability to load in different types of cargo as ammo.A tonne of Hand Weapons gives you a thousand rapid fire proximity warheads, a tonne of Battle Weapons would give you a hundred artillery rounds, a tonne of Military Fuel could be Bomb Pumped GRASER warheads... even just rocks, anything hurts real bad when it hits at 3 or 4 kps! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_biggrin.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />I think it should also be useable as a thruster... the RCS is powerful enough for most maneuvers, and I honestly find flying and fighting with a rear mounted weapon works the best anyways (in space at least!) because the more powerful rear facing reaction drive lets me maintain the distance better.Finally there needs to be a Padlock view that can track a target, both Tactical targets and for navigation. This needs to be integrated with the Zoom function to allow full featured starship combat.Basically, if I could just rig up a big cannon with full recoil and a decent scope... Orbital Orion Drive Sniper Mecha? <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

The problem with kinetic weapons is that they use the ship as reaction mass, and impart exactly the same amount of momentum on the ship as they gain from being fired. That's a problem when you're in a low orbit, or trying to protect another ship. Every shot changes your trajectory. You can't choose how, either. It's determined by the need to hit the enemy.Missiles don't have this problem, because they carry their own reaction mass, and don't use your ship for that. Electromagnetic beam weapons (lasers, masers, etc) don't have this problem because they're massless.You don't want mass drivers on your spacecraft. The mass they drive is you.

To do a whole lot of damage with a mass driver you don't need to launch it very hard if you aren't in the same orbit as your target when you fire... especially with some terminal guidance. Adjustable firing power would let you either crank up a shot that probably WILL knock you off course (or a stream of shots to do the same thing but deliberately as a thruster) or just gently lob out a few warheads to surprise your Bounty on his way around the planet...zing... pop... BOOM!!!! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />It would really be a "Missile Launcher" in the literal sense, a mass driver that lobs out guided munitions.I just realized it would also be a "Cargo Launcher" to swap cargo between ships without needing to have them dock together! Missions to deliver X to Y in ship Z... <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I think that's over-complicating things. We have thrusters already. We also have guided munitions already. We call them missiles.You can spawn a ship in orbit around a planet from teh Lua console. Feel free to try to get into an orbit that opposes it, as you describe. If you manage that, you can try to jettison some cargo at him, but I suspect that even getting lined up will be practically impossible.

Well, you DO need either VERY fast shots or ships with MUCH lower acceleration to work... at least without guided munitions...In any event, I'm suggesting it as another type of weapon... not the ONLY kind of weapon. The way I see it, what Pioneer already has is a decent medium range Combat System but it needs some work to bring out the real potential from a distanec and right up close.For my combat style the extra impulse from a weapon's recoil is a GOOD thing, it won't knock me out of a careful orbit because I'll be using some of my shots JUST to adjust my vector. The recoil would be pretty low compared to the main thrusters, the set speed function would let you operate the gun as a "recoiless cannon" if it matters. Really, I guess the mass driver would just be a way to jettison cargo with a bit more finesse and the weapon I'm asking for is technically a "Space Mine". Combine the two, though... and you've got a flak cannon <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

OK so tonight I tried my hand at alpha 28 combat. I gotta admit, while I'm still getting my arse handed to me every time, I'm at least landing some shots on my target now.Part of it was working out a technique of sorts to neutralise the default newtonian fighting style of high speed jousting. What I find now is that I only use the lateral thruster and rotate the ship to keep the relative movement of my opponent in the horizontal plane. I don't know if that makes sense but suffice to say, now myself and my opponent tend to travel in an ellipse with intervening distance ranging between 500m and 1500m.I find that keeping relative movement in one plane minimises the keyboard contortions required to manage the available degrees of motion...I'm flying in the Eagle Long Range Fighter with a 2MW pulse laser, doing a high risk package run, going up against an Imperial Courier also with a 2MB pulse laser. That Courier is a tough nut to crack. I must have landed at least 20 or 30 shots on it, whereas he(?) must have hit me perhaps 10 or 20 times before my hull finally blew. It was difficult for me to keep track - the dogfight went on for 20min or so and I was mentally drained at the end of it.Does that hit count sound right? How many hits should it take with a 2MW PL to take out a Courier? Would there be a visual cue if my opponent has shields?Don't know if I have any suggestions at this point, brain is too tired and it's too late. Oh one idea - a 'jettison package' option to distract an attacker when you're on a hot package delivery.

You were so outclassed in that fight. It's like asking how many shots it should take from a Gnat to take out an F-14 Tomcat. The answer is lots and lots and lots - your opponent is much, much bigger than you, and can carry much heavier and more effetive weapons.