SpaceSimCentral

There's no denying Space Sims are fun, action packed, strategical, rewarding, beautiful games. Some of them can't really be considered games, some of them are simulations in the strictest sense, some are works of art, some are stress relievers, some of them are life suckers.How can something so amazing be so unknown outside the indie gaming crowd? It wasn't always like this, but lately big releases of Space Sims have been completely non existent. Is this because of PC gaming's dying numbers, are Space Sim games just too much for the little consoles and their little buttons to handle?The only releases that seem to come out are from smaller developers, although, thats in a way a good thing. Since the "mainstream" has a habit of messing everything up.Well, before I start ranting on an interstellar scale, what are you're opinions about the downfall of Space Sims?

I got three words for you “The games industry”, the only thing they are interested in is profit and franchises. It the only thing they ever talk about now days, plus the fact that the genre has not advanced much in the last 20 years. We still have the same two basic type of game ie Elite and Wing Commander, just being made over and over again with new graphics. This is what IMO killed it off in the first place, too many “just another space sim” set in space.

It's not like FPS has gone through radical transformations, yet it still leads the industry.

Think we need a WOW factor again in space games. Like back in the 90's when WC3 and WC4 came out that was an amazing accomplishment for games in general to integrate so well FMV into a game and have it really tie into a great story. I mean c'mon Christopher Blair kicked ass and he did so because of your flying and your decisions in the game. And the supporting cast of actors and budget. Yes, for its time the Wing Commander games were top notch and they spawned a lot of other space games around the success. What makes a great game for me is story... plain and simple. I want to care about my character and what happens to them. I want my flying and desicion making to have an effect of the environment while I play. I'm going to use my wife as an example (hope she doesn't read this), but she watching me play some games lets say Ascii Sector. First response.... what are you playing? I explain the game and what you can do and she looks at me like whatever makes you happy Load up something like X3TC and she looks at it and says WOW that game looks nice, until I explain the game and how to play it and then no interest happens... way to complicated for me to play that. But one night I was watching the compilation of the WC3 and WC4 videos (all one continuious movie) and she was like what are you watching because she was next to me listening to the story. And she commented on all the actors and how it wasn't cheesy. And when I told her it was all compiled video from one game she was amazed She was actually interested in the story it was telling. Today's games really lack the story element in games. Yes FPS games rule the roost currently but they have no depth and you burn out on it quickly. MW2 was the biggest game in 2009 on the console. But do you know if your a decent player and play on normal mode you can beat the entire campaign in 6hrs....? I know people want multiplayer in everything today, but a rich single player experience for me is where its at.Oh starting to ramble now... so i'll stop.

Shodex wrote:
It's not like FPS has gone through radical transformations, yet it still leads the industry.
I would say that FPS game have gone through a lot of changes from the early games,they also have one huge advantage over a space sim game in that they can be set in any environmrnt the deves can think of.Unlike space sim which are stuck with one ie space,big dark and for the most part empty.Some the games do have the odd planet excursion mission but for the most part you still stuck in the cockpit.

PINBACK wrote:


Shodex wrote:
It's not like FPS has gone through radical transformations, yet it still leads the industry.
I would say that FPS game have gone through a lot of changes from the early games,they also have one huge advantage over a space sim game in that they can be set in any environmrnt the deves can think of.
I'd have to disagree. The general story and gameplay of an FPS is the following:"[Insert evil country/person/corporation/aliens/hell] is trying to take over [the World/technology/Candyland] and you, the [genetically enhanced soldier/lucky guy/Rambo/the player] must defeat it because [the army/police/Jesus] couldn't. Pheww, phewww, ratatatata (machine gun sound ), the day is [saved/cliffhanger/destroyed]." Ofcourse you can always mix some elements of other genres like RPG (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.), tactics (Ghost Recon) etc, but then it's not a pure FPS; not to mention that you could do the same things with spacegames. I'll give credit for the various environment though.IMO the biggest problem is with the gamers themselves, who like games like Gears of War with their "epic one-button gameplay" (this was written on the Hungarian Gears of War). Puzzles like in Half Life 2 are like physics-tests for them, so they won't try anything more complicated the "WASD and click".

Empyrean wrote:
I'd have to disagree. The general story and gameplay of an FPS is the following:"[Insert evil country/person/corporation/aliens/hell] is trying to take over [the World/technology/Candyland] and you, the [genetically enhanced soldier/lucky guy/Rambo/the player] must defeat it because [the army/police/Jesus] couldn't. Pheww, phewww, ratatatata (machine gun sound ), the day is [saved/cliffhanger/destroyed]." Ofcourse you can always mix some elements of other genres like RPG (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.), tactics (Ghost Recon) etc, but then it's not a pure FPS; not to mention that you could do the same things with spacegames.

I agree that the basic idea behind the FPS has not changed, but where FPS have evolved is in adding other elements to the gameplay over the last 20 years like physics, storylines the epic set peace even branching storylines.I think it was Halo which came up with the idea of only being able to carry 3 weapons and a rechargeableshield and most FPS since then have copied the idea. So playing Doom and Halflife,you are playing the same game but there is a big difference between the two.Space sims on the other hand had most of the these gameplay elements back in the mid 90s,now some 15years later they are still using the same ideas. Is there any difference between Wing commander and Tarr chronicles or Elite and Darkstar1.

PINBACK wrote:


Empyrean wrote:
but where FPS have evolved is in adding other elements to the gameplay over the last 20 years like physics, storylines the epic set peace even branching storylines.


Agreed, don't get me wrong I'm no FPS hater, Half-Life 2 is my favorite game of all time. But those things are more of the general gaming enhancements. If FPS didn't adapt, then it would have fallen behind. Same goes for every genre.And sure, Space Sims are generally limited in environments. However, if the developers use their imagination Space Sims can have more variety. Take Miner Wars, it lets you cut through the asteroids and fly through there. You're still in space, but it's a creative environment. Space is called "the great unknown" for a reason, we really don't know whats out there, developers can use that to their advantage.

farcodev wrote:
Long live to the indie community
Amen.

farcodev wrote:
SO do we REALLY need the mainstream market ?there's a plethora of free games, from orbiter for the hardcore players-sim fans, to oolite.Sorry i'm a bit.. :evil:Long live to the indie community
You still need the mass commercial market, if these games are ever to make a come back, how many times have you seen on a forum this phase “I won’t play that game because the graphic are crap” of course this is utter nonsense, but the game industry has been able to convince the public that the only good game must come from the top deves and publishers.
Shodex wrote:
And sure, Space Sims are generally limited in environments. However, if the developers use their imagination Space Sims can have more variety. Take Miner Wars, it lets you cut through the asteroids and fly through there. You're still in space, but it's a creative environment. Space is called "the great unknown" for a reason, we really don't know whats out there, developers can use that to their advantage.
That’s pretty much what I feel, that deves have to look long and hard at the players environment, they have to get the wow back into these games. Give the player some thing they have not been able to do before, or bring back some of the older ideas.

Quote:
When you understand that you understand fallout 3 (a rpg ? let me laugh)
....Ehhmm, I really liked Fallout 3 . And I think it's still an RPG . (And yes I have played the original Fallout. I even found the waterchip ) .

It`s not that is unpopular,its about paying a monthly fee on it,because all the good space sims are p2p or will be and generally you can't fool hardcore space sim fans to pay to play.Make eve online free and you will see what happensBesides eve has a rather big pool of players even now.

cultist wrote:
It`s not that is unpopular,its about paying a monthly fee on it,because all the good space sims are p2p or will be and generally you can't fool hardcore space sim fans to pay to play.Make eve online free and you will see what happensBesides eve has a rather big pool of players even now.
I think it’s the same for the online games; Eve has a big pool of players, but out of the top ten MMO it’s the only space sim one as all the rest are fantasy based games. Maybe with StarTrek and the new StarWars and BP games this might change this.

Im sure it will Pinback.I believe the sci fi fan base is big enough to sustain more than one game like eve,only if they will be free to play.There are a million fantasy games out there,but the only game that matters in that category is wow the rest are struggling to survive.

This is the biggest con the game industry has managed to achieve in the last 10 to 15 years; it’s got the general public believing that the only good games must have great graphics and be less then 5 years old other wise they are no good. But it big ace is that it knows that there will be a new lot game players along in a few years from now who will not have played any of the older game and wont play any of the older game because of the above, so it think it can get away with just making the same game over and over again.

I would have to say Pinback's got a point on this argument. I look at it from watching my kids... for example I can download PSOne classics on the PSNetwork. They were watching me play Syphon Filter. A good game for its time period. But the kids saw the graphics and without ever playing it or knowing anything about the game said it sucks and they would never play it.So the brainwashing worked Pinback. My kids will never ever play old school games.I have noticed in the past on my PS3 that most of the time I spend playing games are usually on indie titles on the PSN. They are usually great games and I get way more play time on them then I do the $60 games. You add some complexity or depth (nevermind solving puzzles) to a game and my kids won't even play it. By the game selections they pick they like the mindless no thought process style games. So maybe the REAL gamer is dying....?

Ah Syphon Filter do you shoot the scientists in the head or not “YES” I did. You know I do think there is a certain amount of brain washing going on, just as an example a couple of weeks ago I pick up a copy of Crysis. A game which I never bought at the time of release because I did not think it would work on my computer. Now just over the weekend I was reading on a forum how some one was playing the game on a computer with an old Gforce 5600, a graphic card which is even older than mine. So I installed the game and lo and behold it works and its works well.Now it occurs to me that because the games industry puts so much focus on graphic they may be putting off potential customers in the PC world and hence the decline in PC game sale over the last decade.What was this topic about , maybe Shodex should have that rant .

It's still somewhat on track, I feel like I have to upgrade my entire system every 3-4 years just to keep up with the new games that come out. And even though I build my machines it still costs me about $1000. For some gamers that is something that can't be spent so often. Especially for the kids out there that aren't going to get a new computer just because their gfx can't handle it any more.With cutting edge gfx cards costing between $400-600 that is the cost of 2 console systems right there.So I guess the question that should be asked should all games be tailored to run on a middle of the road system? And have the options in the settings for higher performance. Almost do away with the 'recommended' specs and just raise minimum just a bit higher.You look at some of the games coming like Infinity, Naumchia, Heresy Wars, JGE, BP and others and they are flashy and on some of the games you will need a good rig to get the visuals you see in the HD trailers. But I think the brainwashing is working. Because we think now to enjoy the games produced we need to have kick ass hardware, and that isn't so if the game is built well in the first place.

Have space sim generally become too targeted on a niche audience in recent years. Egosoft are a good example of this, here’s a developer who has spent ten years making 4 different versions of the same game. And have ended up with a game that only appeals to there fans.

That's it, complexity. There are various different types of space games that focus on particular gaming styles. I don't think there really has been any space games that have done everything right?Egosoft in your example Pinback, yes they may have had 4 versions of the same game. But you know where they stand. You know if you pick-up X3TC in the store that your not going to get the same experience as a Freelancer or IW2.Space themed games are just more complex in general. FPS games are not. In a FPS you run around usually with some sort of weapon trying to kill the enemy or other players. They have rinsed and repeated that over and over since DOOM. Which over time they still have the same mechanics they just beautify the games to take away from the fact you are doing the same thing as a 20yr old game :)But how do you make a more simplified space game? I don't think you can even use 'simple' in a space games engine Developers could get more creative and make all controls fit on a gamepad. I think this is actually where they need to go to get the game audience they need to bring space gaming back to the mainstream and not have it a niche market.I mean really what do you need for the basics? (thrust, direction, selectable weapons, defensive measures and access to HUD) I have to admit as I get older I actually want the more simplified control scheme because my aging self doesn't want to have to remember all these different keyboard controls