Why is Space Sim Gaming so unpopular?

[Gargantou]

Personally I think if one has to ponder about whether or not to add a story, one shouldn't.A story that is added only as an after-thought is generally not a good one.

[Petroleus]

Story is an interesting 'problem'. Some games are a story with nice visuals, and can be awesome, some games can be great environment containing a story, and can be equally awesome. The former is usually FPS style, the latter RPG. While RPG's can create awesome emersive worlds and environments, they are in my experience generally less engaging than FPS's storywise. It is strange thing, immersion. The RPG world feels more immersive, but at the same time allows or perhaps even encourages engaging in side-tracks that waste your time. So while the universe depends on you for its survival in the coming 5 minutes, your busy helping an old lady get some jewel she dropped somewhere. FPS's on the other hand are usually very limiting in space, which in itself enhances the feeling that the world is fake, yet the story is so all-encompassing that there is hardly time to worry about the limits of your world.I guess neither is better or best.

[Gargantou]

For me when I think of recent games where I have really enjoyed the story I think about Metro 2033 and Fallout: New Vegas.Of course, my opinion might be biased since I love post-apocalyptic settings!

[Petroleus]

It's funny you should mention Metro, I was resisting the temptation to mention it, since it has no link to space, but it was also on my mind

[Pinback]

Any major hit would have to appeal to the console crowd and a straight out and out space sim probably wouldn’t.It would have to be some sort hybrid combining elements of a FPS game. As said before I don’t think Mass Effect would have been a big hit with out its bolt on shooter.

[SuperG]

Crossplatform reduces risk.but each major platform is so large that you can have big hit with exclusive.The risk is just higher. They need a more master piece to generate 2miljion sale on one platform.But on crossplatform a good above average game could get that with ease.Or a reduced investment to single platform.This means PC exclusive you won't go insane with large investment. But take a reasonable break even point.A crossplatform game could take 1 to 2 miljon as break even.On PC a break even point of 500K is probaly equal in risk.But with more funding margin for crossplatform, they get more the resources to get the most out of there game visions. Only big high profile studio with strong IP can get high budged for platform exclusive.I also remember that egosoft would go console with this.But then have to deal with MS who review there production. A extra barrier.Plus the game but also engine isnt console supporting. the menu system is strong keyboard based solution.I think for console the need to produce a console ready game engine but espacialy the console UI system must be developd. Might be the current UI isn't portably. Probaly adoption means rethink the gameplay to.I trow it on to much rework and redesigning. So they drop it.X-Rebirth seams to be PC exclusive.

[Gargantou]

Yeah, I remember the stand-alone X2 expansion(That later became X3: Reunion) was originally scheduled to get release on the XB1 as well, of all platforms.Needless to say, those plans were canned quite quickly and that's not a bad thing in my opinion.

[SuperG]

While lokin out only for windows PC platformThere is a universal combat around 2005 to 2007And the latest Xseries game. 2008 2009Precursor 2010Starpoint gemini. 2011The only game I know is Xseries.UC i know it a litt bit others unfamilair withIf this all so no competion not much choice in fresh games.

[Pinback]

Cost will always be the deciding factor in this, but I wonder if it may not have something to do with the fact that today’s games players seem to prefer having a human avatar rather then a vehicle.It seems most vehicle sims have become a bit of a niche market apart from driving ones. Eve seems to becoming more of a social networking game and D1 mentioned a comment from BP about how they wished they had made avatar early on as they thought people were having trouble getting attached to ship.

[SuperG]

PINBACK wrote:
Cost will always be the deciding factor in this, but I wonder if it may not have something to do with the fact that today’s games players seem to prefer having a human avatar rather then a vehicle.It seems most vehicle sims have become a bit of a niche market apart from driving ones. Eve seems to becoming more of a social networking game and D1 mentioned a comment from BP about how they wished they had made avatar early on as they thought people were having trouble getting attached to ship.
Interresting thought.Cost might be a major reasdon, but also no sucsesfull triple-A game out there as proof of a large market for such game.Could be also the current gen of gamers aren't into it, and are extreemly alegic to steep learning curves.But compare it with racing sims. Well I think that market do so well because in realife some male gamers are petrol heads. Often lots of people who are mark bound.Me not so petrol head but up till now my 4th car is a Ford.Siera -> Escort -> Mondeo -> FiestaSo if you play in story and character deep game. Or very custumisable character game. take mass efect.that's just one part of it.Making space ships very custumisable also in looks. same game feature race game offer.other way to deal with this build such game from a FPS/TPS RPG like extending a game like Mass Effect with Elite game features.Also A link with reallife woud be a stong atraction. except that's dificuld for space ships.I would look at many space ship oriented scifi shows and movies.But in essense they are character driven so you fall back to a base game like mass effect.This means a FPS space roam hybrid.

[voxel]

PINBACK wrote:
Review of Wing Commander Prophecy, Freelance and Darkstar. This guy pretty much hits the nail right on the head about what he’s says about all three games and his comments about the X games are spot on.
After that I don't think I'll be picking DS1 up in todays steam sale (it's $2.50). Nice review

[SuperG]

Those dudes in vid review got some point but also there preferences.I would put games of different era or production magintude or small game. Against each other.And also not different kind of games within a genre.And story? There are gamers who dont care much about that.That why dev's make cutscenes skippable and Skipping I do a lot.If I would be interrested in this game and would be afraid of buyin crap. Don't go for one review.Because you might have to less in common with the reviewer.And judge each positive or negetive point to your own preference.Well I' am a impulsive buyer so I bought it but did'nt still havent installed it.So many games to play.

[Pinback]

Thought I put this in here, it’s a blog that Jabberwocky wrote for Gamasutrahttp://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/SeanLindskog/20111013/8663/Challenges_of_Designing_a_Space_Sim.phpSome interesting comments in there.

[Geraldine]

That was a great read Pinback, with even Derek Smart getting into it too. Also cool to learn the Salvation Prophecy release date is now only months away!

[chaosavy]

kind of funny... I was going to post a response to Jabberwoky, but stopped myself because I didn't want to divert attention (in any way) away from his game - since I'm aiming at a similar genre.

[Pinback]

Just my IMO but I think lot more should be made of having a Human or even alien character in these games, players seem to respond better to a Human avatar rather than a vehicle one. also interesting to see the niche problem come up.Posted a interview with Lehahn in the X part of the forum, http://www.spacesimcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2507 some interesting comments about having just one ship and along with the comments from Gamasutra. It looks like some developers are thinking about this as a way to reengage the mainstream audience

[chaosavy]

Neat link and interview.Jabber's Salvation prophecy has a "avatar" that you can control on ground missions and in bases etc. My project will have some sort of an in game avatar, whether through cutscenes or dialogs or actual fps like movement (this being the dream of mine, we'll see). Freelancer had an avatar during cut scenes, and so did the Wing Commander series, in everygame I can think of there was always a link to a human and frequent references to it. In EVE Online you were the avatar Yes you see a vehicle, but there is always a mention of a human driver.

[CaptainKal]

Quote:
After that I don't think I'll be picking DS1 up in todays steam sale (it's $2.50). Nice review
I think you should have bought it for that price. It is not as bad a game, as he thinks.

[Pinback]

I do think game player tastes have changed a lot in the last 15 years if you look at modern games you often get vehicles in them but they play a secondary role to the player human avatar.They are used to complete missions or get from one point to another.Yet when developer come to make a space sim they tend make the same game they were making 15 years ago, so after the cut scene you find yourself in space as a ship again.It's true enough that most space sim have a human link but it is usually conveyed thorough cut scenes or clicking on a hot spot within a scene where the player has little or no control over where the avatar goes.Maybe it's time to take the pilot out of the ship.

[chaosavy]

How would you propose to do that in a game that is in the "space sim" genre? To me space sim means focus is given to the space flight portion - so how do you take the pilot out of the ship? Like nearly everything, making a game is about making a choice, if you add more first or third person elements, you sacrifice ship elements. What can be given up to add in the person elements from a space ship?