OpenGL 2.0 requirement?

[tomm]

Hi people,Space stations look silly from the inside because they get lit by the sun, which is occluded by the walls... i could make the model definition more flexible to allow cool lighting, but really not without shaders. And I don't know what sortof sensible fallback I could do without shaders.So for technical reasons I'd like to drop fixed function support, and require an OpenGL 2.0 GPU. But it is a pity to lock loads of people out of playing the game.OpenGL2.0 means:Radeon 9500+Nvidia Geforce FX+Intel GMA 900yeah I don't want to do this. actually I had planned to not require GL2 until pioneer 2 :-)should i, shouldn't i? hm

[tomm]

tomm wrote:
Hi people,should i, shouldn't i? hm
ok disregard that last one. I thunk about it and i've got a plan

[sscadmin]

The majority of people would have OpenGL2.0 compatible gfx cards personally and if they didn't it would cost them $20-50 to get one. OpenGL 2.0 is 6+ year old graphics technology, why hold back? OpenGL4.1 just came out in July, I wouldn't fret to much on this tomm, especially if it will be an overall improvement to the game visuals that already look good. I'm sure you won't hear too many complaints to crank up the visuals if ya can :)OpenGL2.0 Gfx compatibility list:Supported cards: Radeon 9650, Radeon 9500, Radeon 9500/9550/9600/9700/9800 (Pro, SE, XT), Radeon X1050, Radeon Xpress 200 / 1100, Radeon X300, Radeon X550, Radeon X600/Pro, Radeon X700, Radeon X800 (VE, SE, GT, Pro), Radeon X850, Radeon Xpress 1250, Radeon X1200, Radeon X1250, Radeon 2100, Radeon X1300, X1550, X1600, X1650, X1800, X1900, X1950 (Pro, XT, GT), GeForce 6800, Quadro 600, Qaudro FX 500, Quadro FX 700, Quadro FX 1000, FX 2000, FX 3000, Quadro FX 1400, Quadro FX 1500, Quadro FX 3450, Quadro FX 3500, Quadro FX 4500X2, Quadro FX4500 SDI, and all later cards. It is also included in Intel GMA X3500,X4500 and clarkdale family (core i3 ,core i5 inbuilt gpu chip on cpu) CPUs.OpenGL2.1 Gfx compatibility list:Supported Cards: Radeon HD 2350, GeForce FX (with driver 175.19), GeForce 6000 series, GeForce 7000 series, GeForce Go 7000 series, Quadro FX 4000, Quadro FX 350, Quadro FX 550, Quadro FX 560, Quadro FX 1400, Quadro FX 1500, Quadro FX 5500, and all later cards.My vote is for OpenGL2.0+

[KingHaggis]

Difficult situation but I think you should. We're 2010 now and good shadercards don't cost much nowadays. At least, for PC's... people with older laptops will have a disadvantage as a laptop graphicscard usually can't be upgraded easily. But I don't think anyone can blame you for trying to make your game better with todays technology and I think most people have a good shadercard anyway. I'm always for progress and more advanced technologies. People who want to play games have to get a decent rig or laptop. Then again, it's your call of course.Please note that I don't want to offend people who can't afford a good PC or laptop, but it's just the way I think about it.

[HawkerT]

OpenGL 2.0+ all the way, for the reasons already stated by the Darkone!Just my two cent's anyway ... and a chance to say that you are working wonders Tomm! Your labour of love is a true gem in the making, and your dedication is much appreciated.Thank you and all the bestFrans

[tomm]

Darkone wrote:
The majority of people would have OpenGL2.0 compatible gfx cards personally and if they didn't it would cost them $20-50 to get one. OpenGL 2.0 is 6+ year old graphics technology, why hold back? OpenGL4.1 just came out in July, I wouldn't fret to much on this tomm, especially if it will be an overall improvement to the game visuals that already look good. I'm sure you won't hear too many complaints to crank up the visuals if ya can
Yeah maybe I am hypersensitive about this because the situation on linux is so dire (if you stick to open source drivers). With a 2010 linux distro you can have opengl 1.5 on a radeon x1900 (with no real vram vertex buffers...). No kidding. ATI stopped supporting this hardware on new linux distros and the open source driver is GL 1.5. But this will improve - there is an experimental GL2 opensource driver. Linux is a niche interest and shouldn't dictate these things, sad to say.However, I can do an ok fallback so I will keep the fixed function at least for pioneer 1.0.I noticed that Civ 5 needs 2 gigs of ram and a radeon x2600... for a turn-based strategy game...

[RedRiver]

don't let Commodore ppl hold ya back!on that note I think clouds will look prettier with GL2 as well

[sscadmin]

I don't know the intricacy of developing with OGL1.5 and 2.0+? But i'm sure they probably have some similarities and of course differences when it comes to the new feature set of 2.0. But like in some windows games the game itself switches depending on what DirectX version is found on the players PC. If that user only have DX9 certain things are supported and run but if you have DX10 or 11 then all the bells and whistles are turned on for the user. Is that an option or is that too much development for a small team?This site seemed like it had some decent info on Linux and OpenGL: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/OpenGL

[Marcel]

I can't even get shaders to work on my 9550. I click the button, but when I press esc I notice that its unclicked again, therefore no planetary ring shadows and little or no atmospheric effects. This my improve things for me, at least. Btw, haven't had time to see if they work on alpha 5 yet. Thanks!

[Potsmoke66]

Quote:
I noticed that Civ 5 needs 2 gigs of ram and a radeon x2600... for a turn-based strategy game...
it didn't surprises mei guess, not really needed, but... forced?but yes opengl2 is standart to win users at least (that sucks, i didn't know ATI didn't supports linux well, but even no surprise)let's hope more people change thinking, and a one sided business strategy will fail...something else, just hypotetically, pioneer on a ps3? the (gaming)future is on consoles i guess, it was allways, 20 years ago friends was laughing about when i stated such...look at the situation now.it's still like i promised then, a PC will never have the capabilities a pure gaming machine has processor peripherals everything is optimized for gaming and no sucking OS is neededbut i forgot i'm just a stupid silkscreen printer from a mountain valley and no bad words about commodore ppl please if further developed and market wouldn't have been dictated by predators (HAL)...we, i repeat myself, work now with a processor which concept has been made in 1940, designed to control waving machines, and not to drive a winOS or to play games on it. still that heart is ticking in every processor dual, quad whatever...a overaged tattery old grey!nah, developers of computer games in early 80's allready have known this fact, whenever it was possible they decided allready then for a different hardware rather x86mattel used a cpc1610developers there loved to get the M68Ksega used from beginning on Motorolaand none of the arcade machines from those days used a HALthings have changed since then you might arguewell, certainly they have, but a VW stays a VW even when you screw up the motor to the limitsit will never be a ferrari or a mclarensadly bills calculation was right and people will use at home what they know from their workplacebut that didn't mean that this is the better choice.imo, it's somewhat stupid we depend on a computer that has failed to land the eagle in a triple layout system...or to tell in other words, yes they screwed up the speed by megs, but the main leakage of processing mem still stays ondo you rember intels ad from the 90's with the two aliens, stating intel inside?yes, i guess with a intel aboard they would have crash landed on the earth or even more worse straight in our sun... in most cases popular doesn't means better, edison was (is) far more popular rather then tesla (still known as a crazy scientist and dreamer), but who brought us alternating current and three-phase power?and he really had to fight for!even our light bulb was not his genuine invention, he only perfected what others had started out allready.fortunately his chances was better and technic has evolved since the first tries for this.so he was succeeding, but not because he invented it.history is a perfect teacher"under this sign be victorious"
Quote:
I noticed that Civ 5 needs 2 gigs of ram and a radeon x2600... for a turn-based strategy game...
god, tell me what for? waving bushes? grasslands weeping in the wind? butterflys on blooming flowers?faces you can see pimples growing on? i don't know.i know, a dragonfly passing by having a hickup passing by when hanibal was crossing the alps"hickup"! (flamethrow)gosh, you burned my hair...

[sscadmin]

potsmoke66 wrote:
something else, just hypotetically, pioneer on a ps3? the (gaming)future is on consoles i guess, it was allways, 20 years ago friends was laughing about when i stated such...look at the situation now.
I'm all for the PS3 port of Pioneer, plus it would give the devs some $$$.