Modular Starport / City

[Coolhand]

Had an idea for a city + spaceport facilities that can be formed from blocks and assembled, with connective roads, bridges and some huge structures or pre-built blocks with many structures formed around a standard grid. This will utilise a tileset for hopefully a high level of apparent detail for low triangle count and a reduced number of textures, but carrying enough detail that you can land on it and hopefully not be looking at a mess of pixels. (it also lends itself to the creation of quick texture sets to give different looks)Since the total areas covered are going to be larger, i wasn't sure if this was possible until some of the recent discussions about flattening areas, still the entire thing can be built on large platforms to make a steady looking foundation so the ground does not need to be totally smooth. (indeed, even if the land were completely flat, the structures would need to be raised to prevent z-issues, so having a 'skirt' around everything is probably a must. This spaceport currently has 6 very large elevated landing platforms. I would like to add police hangars, a large runway (perhaps a ski-ramp runway might be fun?) cranes to service the platforms, sign / signal gantries and some other structures. Its possible that vehicles could drive around, the roads are entirely separate objects and have their own paths, these could be simple geometry or just glowy points. Its not something that i really intend to do all myself, i hope it attracts some attention from the coding team to make things work, and other modellers - who can contribute their own blocks and structures.Thanks for looking :ugeek:Steve.

[Coolhand]

a couple more pics, one with and without a flat plane landscape.

[Geraldine]

That is a nice idea about the traffic Coolhand. When I am using Micro$oft FSX, I love to see the traffic milling around the airport as I try to land (read crash) the good old DC3. Always liked that effect Also modular buildings would be sensible, as you could add, for really big spaceports, or remove them for out of the way backwater worlds, or really mix them up for a bit of variation if or when factions start to appear in the game.

[ollobrain]

these modules could be sold and brought from core worlds and if youre flying a hauler u could move them to barren worlds and make youre own starport ( of course down the track if that feature is implemented) it could also tie in with system development, help to defeat pirates, bring in passangers and goods and over time far flung colonies will develop based on yorue activitiy in supporting the system in missions cargo and pattrolling etc

[Marcel]

That's excellent Coolhand! The second one looks like it could fit into the current game fairly easily. I've been thinking a bit about traffic too. A lua file that would move objects along a track seems quite possible.

[ollobrain]

im for the idea of the lua file moving traffic along certain paths. Any ideas how to go about it

[HawkerT]

Looks exiting Coolhand! Exiting indeed!Just wanted to make sure you were hooked up with the three other (earlier) threads sparking ideas and solutions for buildings and structures in Pioneer: This post is on page one of the latest building thread and links to the two other initial threads containing stuff on buildings and structures.Edit: Bummer! I just checked and it seems that a lot of the pictures from the older threads (linked in the post mentioned above) got zapped in the forum transition not long ago. Anyway here is a link to three posts still worth something and with pictures: This post and the three followingS20dan's and AcesHigh's vision and solution on spaceports seems quite compatible to yours btw. (even your names seems compatible wouldn't you agree?) .... but go and have a look see for ya'self mate!Thanks for your ideas and work on Pioneer Coolhand! Much appreciated!All the best

[Guest]

I'm glad I read this post. You have attracted my intention.. in fact I've already started to think about how this can be done.I've been playing with the idea of modular starports/cities. I released a few starports in Alpha10 (yep.. my modeling is poor) with this modular idea in mind.I'm also looking at how you can auto-build a starport based on external factors (population, government type, etc). It is all 'meatware' at this stage, but i'm glad there is some interest in it (which only encourages me that I'm on the right direction).

[Coolhand]

Yes clearly, what would be ideal would be for a modular approach that allows for auto generation of cities, otherwise they could possibly be assembled manually for certain worlds perhaps.You might want a different style for each faction, imperial, feds, indy, thargoid etc and different structures depending on environment. Each module could add to the population of the planet. but the key idea is that each section joins with the infrastructure of the next, so you end up with a unified city that looks more like its been designed by people with a plan. so ideally each section should be able to join with any other on any of the 4 sides... Special rules for certain parts like bridges might allow bridges and lengthy sections of highway to generate. it could perhaps be handled simply as a flat plane. planetary curvatures might be a problem but only for larger cities or (perhaps more excitingly) city-planets, which is more feasible with larger monolithic structures as opposed to a billion tiny, rounded space-condos etc.so to turn a sphere into a spherical city (less assume a smallish planet like perhaps mars to increase the angle between each module) each section could join to the next via a small extended roadway which should then allow for fitting flat parts together on a curved surface without apparent overlap. If you know the size of the standard module and the radius of the planet (or at least the radius to the "flat" area that the city will be positioned on, then space each module around the centre point of the planet, it should be relatively straightforward to work out the angular distance required for each piece to give a regular, fitting distribution of modules.

[Guest]

The ideal should be adaptable cities to any kind of terrain in the way of the screenshots I guess. Then new cities could be added to the game without deterministic positions (places) on planets.But, is that possible? The example screens look amazing.

[Coolhand]

both the added depth with the large foundations and the large scale of the structures should help deal with uneven terrain, there's definately a problem with the terrain interaction with structures that needs to be addressed https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/issues/7In Orbiter, with ORULEX (Orbiters terrain generation addon) around a specified base point orulex will flatten the terrain for a given radius, commonly looking like a city in a crater... i'm sure this could be improved upon so the flat area has a circle of influence which falls off over distance so it looks less abrupt. And yes there's a great deal that could be done with it.part of keeping it flat is to deal with making the roads line up, seems like a straightforward way of doing it, Hopefully there are other suggestions

[Coolhand]

Philbywhizz wrote:
I'm glad I read this post. You have attracted my intention.. in fact I've already started to think about how this can be done.I've been playing with the idea of modular starports/cities. I released a few starports in Alpha10 (yep.. my modeling is poor) with this modular idea in mind.I'm also looking at how you can auto-build a starport based on external factors (population, government type, etc). It is all 'meatware' at this stage, but i'm glad there is some interest in it (which only encourages me that I'm on the right direction).
yes your work here and some of those discussions inspired me here, now that i have your attention:) how can i help?

[Guest]

The orulex dynamic craters when scenery exist was an amazing idea and works decently fine. And I guess Artlav had to do that due to technical issues with the terrain generator; An intelligent solution.

[Coolhand]

Gudadantza wrote:
The orulex dynamic craters when scenery exist was an amazing idea and works decently fine. And I guess Artlav had to do that due to technical issues with the terrain generator; An intelligent solution.
Orulex's solution is simple but brutal, because bases are mapped onto a perfect sphere they would sometimes be miles above or below the terrain, so in some situations you would have a very deep crater, it seems obvious that something similar could be achieved in pioneer but at the same time is more subtle as uneven terrain is in it from the start and bases altitudes seem to be based on the 'real' physical surface altitude rather than an indealised sphere. another solution might be like aceshigh's where you would build up a flat-top and then position the city over that, the 2 ideas could be combined in this way - though again, a suitably substantial "foundation" basically does the same job.

[Subzeroplainzero]

aceshigh, your examples look amazing, I really hope these can be implemented. Also, I think I'm in love with you

[Coolhand]

AcesHigh wrote:


Coolhand wrote:
Orulex's solution is simple but brutal, because bases are mapped onto a perfect sphere they would sometimes be miles above or below the terrain, so in some situations you would have a very deep crater, it seems obvious that something similar could be achieved in pionee
I suppose we could get the average height of the terrain over which the city will be laid out, and flatten it to that average height?and then "erode" the terrain around, so the transition from the averaged terrain height to the normal terrain becomes smooth?either way... why not use BOTH methods??really, we do have a game spanning a few million/billion star systems.why would every city look the same? Flat?I think some cities should be flat, using hexagon modules. Others, should be flag using circular or square modules!other cities should be on rough terrain, like the examples I posted above, with the modules adapting to the terrain.other cities should be huge arcologies, others should be holes in the ground, etc. I just think its important to keep homogeinity (inside a city) amid the variety (between planets/ star systems)
I'm not proposing one absolute system to rule them all no... just trying to create discussion on cities which are modular, "auto-generatable" and with modules that can be linked to another module to build a greater whole...which is that if you're building any type of grid of city blocks, it should be a no-brainer to build the modules and organise them in such a way that a ground transport system is generated. I mean you're not going to run out of ideas for this any time soon really... its working out where to start, and beginnings to things like this are of course humble.

[Coolhand]

If you had offended me, i would have certainly let you know. epic thread-jack though it was I've deliberately kept things very simple which has enabled me to try stuff out just in a modelling app, like i have rigged up an array of blocks on a mars sized sphere, enough so a curvature is noticable if you look down one of the hundreds of km long avenues . An entire city-planet is to me the ultimate logical conclusion which might require all manner of sneaky tricks to accomplish if possible at all (its probably not within reasonable hardware restrictions taken at face value). An apparent problem with any solution, particularly if talking about very large cities is curvature which restricts size and makes it difficult to line things up.i'm thinking perhaps i can help Philbywhizz with the spaceport work using some of the model work i've already done as a basis, which can be a standalone thing and might be flexible enough to work with the exisiting terrain.

[Subzeroplainzero]

AcesHigh wrote:


Subzeroplainzero wrote:
aceshigh, your examples look amazing, I really hope these can be implemented. Also, I think I'm in love with you
ok... are you a girl like in your avatar? Do you have only one eye, like in your avatar? :)btw, check the other thread (someone posted the link, at page 1 of this thread) where I posted more pics and there is more discussion about cities.
Unfortunately I'm a gruff, two-eyed Yorkshireman haha So how do you expect performance to be with these models? I have trouble running pioneer with city detail set to high, but if they end up looking any where near as good as your examples, I'll be happy to put up with a slideshow.

[Coolhand]

Subzeroplainzero wrote:


AcesHigh wrote:


Subzeroplainzero wrote:
aceshigh, your examples look amazing, I really hope these can be implemented. Also, I think I'm in love with you
ok... are you a girl like in your avatar? Do you have only one eye, like in your avatar? :)btw, check the other thread (someone posted the link, at page 1 of this thread) where I posted more pics and there is more discussion about cities.
Unfortunately I'm a gruff, two-eyed Yorkshireman haha So how do you expect performance to be with these models? I have trouble running pioneer with city detail set to high, but if they end up looking any where near as good as your examples, I'll be happy to put up with a slideshow.
I assume you're just talking to aces high... but as i started the thread i'll throw my oar in, please continue to ignore any of my efforts if you want... my plan anyway is to do far more with far less - pioneers cities are currently extremely inefficient at present. WE could basically illustrate a larger populated area with perhaps half to a third the triangles. Currently we're looking at lots of small cylindrical buildings, sometimes lots of cylinders like the 'hockey puck' building which is constructed of lots of offset cylinders so you do not get a lot of bang for your buck with these types of models.

[Subzeroplainzero]

Coolhand wrote:
I assume you're just talking to aces high... but as i started the thread i'll throw my oar in, please continue to ignore any of my efforts if you want... my plan anyway is to do far more with far less - pioneers cities are currently extremely inefficient at present. WE could basically illustrate a larger populated area with perhaps half to a third the triangles. Currently we're looking at lots of small cylindrical buildings, sometimes lots of cylinders like the 'hockey puck' building which is constructed of lots of offset cylinders so you do not get a lot of bang for your buck with these types of models.
Haha sorry, I'll admit I only skimmed through and associated all the example pics with aces for some reason. I'm very aware of the awesome model work you've done for pioneer so far, so don't worry, I have a lot of gruff yorkshireman love for you too if you want it ;)That's good news about the performance. Perhaps if this goes well, you may even be able to move on to modular space stations too.. perhaps even death star sized monstrosities!