Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Pioneer is an open-ended space adventure game. Explore the galaxy, make your fortune trading between systems, or work for the various factions fighting for power, freedom or self-determination.
Homepage: http://pioneerspacesim.net/
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robn
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by robn »


Marcel wrote:
Isn't it supposed to produce the effect of shaders without using them? I still see the buildings in their entirety without the ground covering part of the bottom and no shadows on planetary rings. I don't play many games anymore so I don't have many examples for comparison, but I can see heat shimmers and effects in Doom 3 so I know my card can display shaders. I don't think it's worth anyone's effort to get Pioneer to work with my old Radeon 9550, however. :)
There's different kinds of shaders. Your card may support ARB shaders, but to use them we'd pretty much have to learn GPU assembly language. Nobody uses them anymore. We use GLSL shaders, which are typically only available since OpenGL 2.0. Pioneer does some basic feature tests on start up so the fact that you got the legacy renderer suggests that your card probably can't support it (its not just shaders either).We don't try to make Pioneer produce the effect of shaders without them unless its trivially easy to do. Worst-case we'd end up maintaining two codepaths. The philosophy for shaderless hardware is that the game should be playable without them, but not necessarily pretty. That's exactly why the things you mention (glows and ring shadows) aren't available - they're 100% implemented in shaders. The ground covering the buildings is another, more complex part of using shaders - we do different depth calculations in the shaders that simply cannot be supported without them.
Potsmoke66
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Potsmoke66 »

i made some models, some buidings and a few ships that won't use textures the result is mixed,for the buidings it's ok and they have a slight better performance as the "standart" buidings, plus that you won't see no ugly basements with the legacy renderer.but i encountered some problems with the ships, resp. the materials when run in legacy mode, some became wrong shaded or the rand. (and other) material loses it's specularity.sometimes i could help with moveng the affected parts to a submodel, sometimes i can't find any reason or help.if some are interested in, here are the models, they will simply replace ALL sub-models and submodels.only a few simple buidings and a few ships.all are untextured.but to get some extra FPS or run the game with the legacy renderer it's enough to replace only the buildings.don't expect to much, in general they are the default buildings from the very beginning.
Potsmoke66
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Potsmoke66 »

since that glitch only appears in legacy renderer mode i didn't pay to much attention to it.but it's sad for some that can't have shaders on.
Potsmoke66
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Potsmoke66 »

i still have a problem with the scale (not me, not my models)[attachment=1231:Bildschirmfoto 2012-06-02 um 22.11.jpg]the cuboid you see in red is 1x1x2...[attachment=1230:Bildschirmfoto 2012-06-02 um 22.12.jpg]...either the people who live in this building are 6m tall or the scale is wrong...[/hr]i know when you start a model it's not easy to know what is 1 meter, but you can depend on most of my models especially the pilot or the missile.the pilot will give you the right scale, you will know then which grid is 1m x 1m, or you can take the missile which has a radius of 0.5m and a length of 4m.besides, the standard size for blenders cube primitive is 2x2x2 meters, that's a good help to (this because of a radius of 1m for a sphere).for building it's acceptable to have slight differences but a floor height of 8m is out of scale for sure (4m you can tolerate), except it would be a hangar or a similar large industrial building.i know the "Arco" is very large, but all buildings & trees are in proper scale to a human (~2m). please keep the scale and don't "invent" a own one, i would appreciate it much.---measured by the floors this building is at least 2times oversized, if not 3 times.while, i know it looks funny scaled down that much, so i suggest more floors.[/hr]i changed the texture somewhat, making it possible to repeat it seamless...[attachment=1232:Bildschirmfoto 2012-06-02 um 23.38.jpg]the building is 230m high, we have now ~40 floors, which still results in a average floor height of 5.8m which is still to high, but acceptable (i scaled the the uv more then double therefore, i guess a floor was >12m before ?).[/hr]also the second building set (kbuildings) needs a review, the residential building is far to big, while the hangar like industrial one is to small.i scaled them already for myself to somewhat more reasonable, the "round" commercial bld is almost the same, scaled the residential down, but it would be as small as my "combo" bldg, if you respect the floor height of max. 4m (maximum maximum, better would be 3m for res.), but i liked it to have it slightly bigger (small differences you won't recognize).the industrial bldg. i scaled up more as twice to let it look like a big storage, what it should be in my eyes.a monument might have a floor height of 6m and more, but else...and keep the collision mesh free from tetxures, this will help performance, more as many other things. you can forget all LOD's, but this helps much as double.i know that some feel i'm wrong or whatever with that, but it's true, try to compare before you say "theoretically..."oh, and i forgot, this is not of interest at all... :roll: (like all of my suggestions :lol: )
Potsmoke66
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Potsmoke66 »

nonetheless ;) i post two screenshot which let's you compare and you can see the difference of the final retextured "vbuildings" (i hope vlastan feels ok with it).but if you look at the scenery they fit much better now imho.first the original buildings[attachment=1234:o_vbldg.jpg]now the "retextured" ones, i only changed the texture a little bit to make it seamless, glowmap has been vertically flipped to fit and edited in the same way as the diffuse map (further i reduced the bitdepth of the glowmap from 24 to 8 = 256 palettized, which is far enough for a glowmap imo, and saves at least a little space if not more).the "uv scale" has been almost doubled (sometimes a little more sometimes a little less) and i reached a average floor height of 5m, which is still very high but ok.that has also ment a rework for the lod2 and lod1 bldgs, further i removed the textures from the collision mesh to save a little bandwith.[attachment=1235:n_vbldg.jpg]the vertical mirrored glowmap is best to recognize at the small windows on the low floors of the buildings, if you take a close look you can see on the original blds. the glowing of the windows is under the windows, respectively flipped.further i sunk the blds. in until the groundfloor is now 5m above level, that means that they will sink in on one side sometimes on steep terrains, but steep terrains are anyway gone (to sad, imho) :mrgreen:and a screenshot with marcels "worksuit" :mrgreen: which is finally a good thing to have as comparison model[attachment=1236:vbld_withzerun.jpg][/hr]i rember this problem even from old SC3K, it took me a long time to find a set of buildings which has fitted to mine, that's because i kept the scale (a "block" in the "BAT" was 3x3x3m, which shows that the devs of the "BAT" had the right idea, each block fits to a average floor height of 3m), many buildings was nicely made but completely out of scale which is annoying then in a completed city.but i also know that even some draughtsmen have problem with the scale, which i really can't imagine...but maybe i'm handicapped because of 25 years of construction working ;) and i know how high (or big) a residential, commercial, industrial or a stadium had to be, i worked on all construction sites (and often, due to my work, right under or on the ceiling, i can tell you how high 12meters are, damned high if you walk over a strut 12m above the ground, loaded with one or two tubes on the back ;) .
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Geraldine
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Geraldine »


"potsmoke66" wrote:
if some are interested in, here are the models, they will simply replace ALL sub-models and submodels.only a few simple buidings and a few ships.all are untextured.]
WOW <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_eek.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shock:' /> That above shot looks so much like the Miggy version of Frontier <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_cool.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8-)' /> Nice clean lines <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Marcel
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Marcel »

Gernot, that does look better. I wonder where Vlastan is? I haven't seen any comments from him lately. I'm especially interested in the removal of the textures from the collision mesh. Does it help with the frame rate in the hometowns mod?Vuzz, those buildings are in alpha 22. They're just not very noticeable.
Potsmoke66
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Potsmoke66 »

@ marcel, actually i can't say exactly how much it helps, a little perhaps, best is to compare imo in the modelviewer and turned off V-Sync so you see the max possible framerate.in the game i feel not much difference actually, but i know it helps, it depends also a lot on the polycount, so a lowpoly model can have a textured collision mesh while if you texture many 1000 in a collision mesh it gets weak i the knees.so you see low poly as the buildings are there is no measurable difference, perhaps 1% or 2%.but hard to tell when it runs slow, but if then it runs slow, i miss a bit my PC, the MAC book is powerful for such a small thing, but not made to play games i guess.anyway it's easy, just limit the lowest lod to .1 or 1 pixels for buildings 1 is ok, you really won't see a building "1 pixel" sized (it's not exact but really deniable).one can go higher with this value, and use a material to use lod 1 to as a visible model only with materials and no textures that's ok to.so "lod_pixels = { 1, 0 } as example would make it already possible to separate the model from the untextured collision mesh.i.e.
Code:
if lod == 1 then geometry of collision meshelse material texture geometry of modelend
buildings can have a real minimal collision mesh, like a simple cube that's enough, you can collide and really you won't notice if something is a little larger or smaller or has a flagpole or a antenna (ok, if the flagpole has no collision mesh you can fly through, but really i think such is deniable)also get's the space a building needs calculated from the average radius of the collision mesh, means especially things that rakes into the ground don't need no collision mesh else you use up to much space in the city. in situations where a building will show it's basement you can't get that close to the ground anyway without crash landing, usually, maybe the "zerun" is a exception to that.while for scripted geometry you will surely use all 4 lod's e.g. "lod_pixels = {1, 50, 200, 500, 0 }" so you have the proper divisions for each lod's geometry.---i'm not sure if i should upload that, i guess not before vlastan comes around, i mean i know it fits better, but it's only fair to give him the chance to do it himself or to say at least if he likes it or not.@geraldineyes i like it to, call us nostalgic or something, i don't mind.if it's about "us three" we would keep it this way i know.but we have 2012, we shouldn't forgeton the other hand, yes i will keep this option open, to have a pioneer close as possible to FE2, would need a lot more models in this kind.but also and even i'm sometimes to lazy to make scripted geometry, it's sooooooooo much easier with CAD.and like i posted i the other thread
Quote:
let's see which set i load today, medieval? 30's hollywood? east is the best? original FE2?...
medieval, i can already hear some mumbling "he's a lunatic" :lol:
spazeman
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by spazeman »

Hee Hee! Know what pioneer needs?I'll tell you...Space elevators!!Yessss! Get programming!!
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Geraldine
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Geraldine »


spazeman wrote:
Space elevators!!
Now that would be cool 8-) But what would the game use them for though? Unless they are just there to look cool?
spazeman
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by spazeman »

Primarily to look cool but if they were only on a few planets you could just use them instead of (or with the autopilot). The autopilot goes straight down vertically for the decent anyway. They might get in the way if not using autopilot though. I wasn't really expecting anyone to go to the trouble of actually doing them but they would be really really cool!
Potsmoke66
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Potsmoke66 »

shall i?i don't know, besides i love the idea of a space elevator, not really new...but well i would love it for reality, it's a cool idea, but yeah what can we do with it?if that ever will come to a end, it will please you eyes enough i guess...[attachment=1254:Bildschirmfoto 2012-06-07 um 11.58.40.jpg]and you WILL have a little "elevator" (train) from the center to the wheel... :mrgreen:and i feel your photomounting is a bit unrealistic, a space elevators "cable" must have the shape of a "diabolo", that's because the lower part has to compensate the upper parts centrifugal force so that the force on the "cable" will be close to 0.
spazeman
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by spazeman »

I'm so glad you agree! not sure what you mean by photomounting? but you could have an entire space station on the end of it as long as it's tall enough (as there's no gravity once passed a certain point)... ie. (I'm not saying you should do that though!)
Skodyn
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by Skodyn »

It could be used to drop off cargo units or docking with larger cargo ships, the cargo would then be transported on the elevator (giving you empty cargo units/ship to start your next job) ? You may also need to go down with the cargo in order to sell it at the surface and then bring new cargo up to load you ship. ?
ollobrain
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RE: Pioneer City Buildings Modeling

Post by ollobrain »

2 asteroids or more that can be connected via an inspace elevator of sorts setting up complexes of asteroids connected in close proximity to form defacto mining bases, or elevators off moons to an orbital facility
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