Gameplay, factions, missions, blah blah blah

[fluffyfreak]

Cheers Walterar, that's really all I wanted it to be - a step in the right direction - nothing more.There's load of things that can be done with just a few tweaks, for example the current system has fixed sizes but once we get a small bug fixed the volumes that each Faction occupies should naturally expand over time as you play the game. Systems on the edge of a factions space might already be inhabited but could be swallowed up over time and trades routes subsequently change with a "date joined faction" appearing in their description with that date being just months before your visit etc.Exciting simple changes and additions when we get them working <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />also there's this <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//wink3.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[Marcel]

Meka-leka-hi, meka-hiney-ho to you,This sound's like ollobrain's dream come true!

[NeuralKernel]

Hi, I'm new here... sorry to just bud in with what may be a wild deviation in topic but I have an idea that might be quite helpful to this aspect of gameplay.There's a pen&paper RPG about humanity within the solar system after getting thrashed by military AIs called Eclipse Phase. Even if you aren't a fan of RPGs in general the setting is fascinating and well worth the trouble of a free download!! Though I do hear the books are quite nice and if you are a role player then you know that you cant beat hardcopy for gaming! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />[url]http://eclipsephase.com/[/url] creative commons for non-commercial use and although the setting is quite a bit smaller than a Galaxy it is still an entire Solar System and a fairly crowded one in certain places! It handles a variety of factions and even different economic models in an interesting and innovative fashion with a fairly detailed description and examination of how things would develop in a truly "space age" society.When it comes to factions and general NPC interaction it might make sense to scale things back a bit in the game, down to just one or maybe a handful of stars. Eclipse phase has mysterious "wormholes" connected to a couple distant stars so you could retain some interstellar gameplay while keeping most of it "confined" within a single solar system.Other than that, thanks for the amazing work so far! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[fluffyfreak]

Instead of implementing Eclipse Phase, although it does look pretty cool, think about what you'd like to see in Pioneer.What technology, what factions, what abilities, what missions/jobs/societies etc.Then we can start to discuss what can be implemented straight away with some scripting, what needs coder input, what features would need adding to support thing etc.in general though welcome to Pioneer, new input and ideas are welcome <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[NeuralKernel]

Thanks, glad to be here!I don't want to just adapt EP into the game, but I figured rather than a HUGE post with ideas scattered everywhere it would make a decent "baseline" for a few more Pioneer specific ideas I've got... along with just generally being a cool looking sci-fi game itself! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />As far as Factions go I think that a matrix of factors should be set up... like the "left, center and right" that modern political parties are lumped into.It would allow more detailed data sets to be generated procedurally for any given system / planet /region, along with intermixing between "factions". Things would be a lot more organic than simply defining a few major polities. You could have a list of options like D&D race/class mixes and just "roll up" new defitions for a given NPC. The different options would affect different aspects of the final models.Off the top of my head I figure...Races would define the mesh used. Different character pics, ships, stations and cities would have different styles depending on the race that built them. Options include...Uplift (squid, apes, birds, whales...)HumanAIPolitical affiliation would determine the colour palette used for some of the textures (trim maybe?) with as many options as you want...Cooperative (Anonymous in space!!) White? Purple? Infrared? <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Republic (Modern western style democracy) Red?Empire (Hereditary aristocracy with an assinated Emperor every few months!) Blue?There are plenty more options to use I'm sure...Each Polity could have it's own money... with exchange rates determined by the different polities relationships with each other (like, neutral, hate?) and the "loyalty" of the specific NPC involved.You could end up dealing with a shifty Parrot Nobleman trying to rob a Human Coop farming planet's fresh fruit and veg... or help a Robotic Mail Service deliver water to The Grand Chimp Noodles VIII's mining outpost depending on how the dice rolls! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[spazeman]

Yeah that sounds really cool. I'll check back in a decade or so! Think thats pretty spot on, Imperial/Lefty/Fascists etc. Just keep it simple though! and Leave the silly names out. I've never been keen on joining a faction called the Versploovian Empire or the Krixplaverdong army! But obviously the Bahnahweepgrahnahweepninnybon would have to play a major role.

[NeuralKernel]

Heh, yeah... I kinda just assumed that the "Republic" would have some bland commitee selected name like "The Terran Republic" or something, the Coops would all have either generic names, no names or whimsica hippyl names... and of course nobles LOVE elaborate titles... but hate that other nobles have so many... so I figured each petty little warlord would have an elaborate string of titles and ranks to make them sound like the most important person in the room <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Mostly I just think that a kind of race/class setup along similar lines to a lot of RPGs would make more sense than defining a couple monolithic political entities. The specifics I mentioned are pretty generic across differnt settings and genres, though.

[NeuralKernel]

Just thought I'd link to this as well, it may have been brought up before but it's a shared sci-fi worldbuilding group developing a far future "realistic" Space Opera setting. There are lots of elements that fit very nicely with Pioneer and some that don't... there is a TONNE of weirdness on the site, but also some very cool stuff, so be warned <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />[url]http://www.orionsarm.com[/url]

[spazeman]

There's a big writeup at the beginning of this thread i think and that's got the basics (empire, corp etc) and there's a lot of it! The codey chaps problem are the practicalities! I think the problem is that pioneer is open to so many options the way the game is. You could have corporations, 'nations', dictators, AI, *ahem* Aliens, all sorts of factions. If it was up to me I'd make all the factions corporations from sci fi films and have done with it. I'd work for Lunar Industries or Weyland any day!

[NeuralKernel]

There's an empire like that in Orions Arm! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />It's probably all cosmetic anyways... but I figure that every ship, station and city would be treated as it's own distinct faction... with a set of attributes generated along whatever set of species/economy/ideology lines. By doing it procedurally you can define systems that are wholly populated by factions with similar attributes, and do "disputed" systems by setting a few values in the system / planet / moon descriptionYou could have vast stretches of "Republican" Space with disputed systems along the frontiers of the "Free Zone" and "Empire"...The Frontiers are where things are most dangerous... and profitable! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[fluffyfreak]

I'll reply more to this stuff when the Factions branch has actually been reviewed and merged in <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Then we can start to get your guys up to speed on how to setup your own factions, figure out what's missing, what needs adding to make scripting work with it etc.

[walterar]

"[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]I'll reply more to this stuff when the Factions branch has actually been reviewed and merged in"[/background]I have no doubt that this is a good thing, with a long way to go and much to discuss. Mainly in the "political expansion simulator" of the factions.There are many things to discuss later, but regarding the visual look of the "star map", in issue #1505, I think it will be difficult to find a value of "default brightness" of the labels, work with all graphics cards. This can become a problem.

[fluffyfreak]

'walterar' wrote:
"but regarding the visual look of the "star map", in issue #1505, I think it will be difficult to find a value of "default brightness" of the labels"
It's a combination of things, I want the systems that are inhabited to use the factions colour, but it needs to be muted when out of range. For some colours this works well, ones that are RED or GREEN but for blue factions it becomes hard to read very quickly. I think that the values I've picked now should be ok for the time being. We might just need to avoid pure blue faction colours.

[walterar]

"[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]I want the systems that are inhabited to use the factions colour"[/background]That can set the player, the old light blue works. <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]" but it needs to be muted when out of range."[/background]I'm not so sure about this. Considers that the "star map" is a tool that tells us how much fuel we will need to reach the destination. It must be perfectly legible "before."

[walterar]

Remember uninhabited systems serve as "bridges jumps".This may be necessary also: Color labelColor(0.8f,0.8f,0.8f,0.50f); // Color labelColor(0.8f,0.8f,0.8f,0.25f);

[fluffyfreak]

Walter two things:A) You're "nit picking" - i.e: focusing on very small details,<img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//cool.png[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> Ignoring several things that other people rely on in the game.Yes you use it to plot a possible route from, for example: "Sol" to "Gliese 300". However you also need a way of seeing quickly how far you can currently travel, that was already being done by reducing the visibility of other star systems names and colouring them differently if they were inhabited or uninhabited. All that my change does is uses the faction colour instead of the default colour (which was white).Also your point is completely redundant because you don't need to know the name of a star system to get there, you could completely turn off the names of uninhabited star systems and you could still use them as "bridge jumps" because you don't select them by name but by clicking on the star itself. In fact you could remove all of the star systems names entirely and just leave an indicator of where you'd like to go and where you currently are, but that would be taking the point a bit too far.Note that I haven't and have no intention of changing the star system rendering. All I have done is change the colour of the text next to the star.

[walterar]

[background=rgb(33, 47, 58)]"You're "nit picking" - i.e: focusing on very small details,"[/background]If for you is right, go ahead.I do not think it convenient to see things more important now. <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[NeuralKernel]

Does the Pioneer / Frontier setting include interstellar FTL comms or just travel? It would determine what kinds of empires would even be able to form. It isn't something that needs to be decided anytime soon but it would influence the structure of any large scale organization (nation, empire, commune, company). With FTL comms a central authority or rigid heirarchy can micromanage things within it's influence qiuckly and easily. With FTL travel but not comms, mail shuttles are the only practical way to get recent information, so the local authorities would need more flexibility and autonomy. You could easily just fudge things, declare everything FTL but say everyone acts as autonomous polities... or have an interstellar superpower held together by a central system's courier fleet... it would all be in the background and more for "texture" in the universe but it could eventually influence some gameplay issues so I think it's worth discussing how and why some larger factions would form and hold together in an interstellar setting like this.Personally I think the sheer distances involved, individual habitats (stations and cities) would be the largest sovereign polities... there would be huge variety within them and groups would naturally form among some of them but I don't see permanent large political entities lasting very long. I think it would also lead to more fun gameplay options! <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Brianetta]

'NeuralKernel' wrote:
Does the Pioneer / Frontier setting include interstellar FTL comms or just travel?
Just travel. Hence all the courier missions.

[walterar]

["Delivery"] = "Delivery",["Excellent. I will let the recipient know you are on your way."]This seems to say otherwise. Should be corrected. <img src="'[url]http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gif[/url] class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />