new ship models

[torham2234]

I have a problem. The model works fine in the model viewer, but when I want to start new game and test it out ingame the game crashes every time. I cannot find why this is happening. Here is the package of the ship, if anyone can find out why it is crashing the game... WARNING!!! THIS PACKAGE BREAKS THE GAME!!

[nozmajner]

It shows up in the opening screen, and the Barnard's star start point works and you can fly it fine. The error isn't really at your side.I experienced this error when I was playing around with ship stats. It's either the relatively low thrusts (which seem to be reasonable for the ship though) or the very short hyperspace range that screws with the game when the tradeships.lua tries to operate the ship. (The error disappeared when i removed the script).I'm not sure which stat causes the hang. I tried dividing the masses by then, but it had no effect, then I multiplied the thrust, but it doesn't helped either. Dividing the masses with 100 did the job though. I'm starting to think it's about hyperspace ranges.I'll report this bug, since now I'm not the only one experiencing it.

[torham2234]

After some testing... It seems that the ship's stats are just too high, or like you say, some value is going out of bounds. The model works fine if you calibrate the LUA (mass, cargo, thrust...) for something like 300 ton ship.... PS: I need some feedback from you: - do you like the model? I can change anything you think looks odd or want changing- witch colour pattern do you prefer? I like the scratched worn one, but the clean one gives the ship a newer/refurbished look...- do you think there is enough detail on the ship? When I realized the ship is supposed to be so big, I had a feeling that I should have caked on more detail on both the texture and the model itself....

[nozmajner]

It's quite nice overally. I like the worn out pattern. There are some small parts where you could easily get rid of some geometry, but nothing too over the top.The thing that bothers me is the floating geometry of the RCS blocks, especially the front ones. They can be joined up at the cost of some 30-40 tris quite easily to give a much nicer mesh, and avoid any z-fighting flickering. I'm quite pedantic about avioiding floating geometry. They don't waste much texel because they are quite small, but it's usually a good practice to have as few floating geometry as humanly possible.The UV map is a bit generous in my opinion, and some UV sharing geometry isn't really reasonable. Like the base of the turret can easily have it's own area on the map.I kinda likt the details, especially on the engines, I think I will integrate it to the other OPLI Barnard ships. There might be some more detail for sure, but I don't think it's really necessaryreally. Maybe some windows at the side for size indication, and some optics and other sensors for example.I think we need to assemble a good collection of prefab detail like these, that can be used on the ship textures.

[torham2234]

Ok I will look at the issues you pointed out. I never know what is the difference for when you have just floating geometry and joined up model, but I can easily bolean then onto the main mesh... I will redo the turret base, that was a bit of a cheap trick, looks like you picked it up fast . speaking of prefab detail... something like this?  I have made quite a collection for the Mirage

[walterar]

torham2234 Try this: nerodia.lua Fly like a fighter. Then go adjusting the values ​​until it snaps against Pluto.

[Vuzz]

This model is haughtiness, i prefer the scratch patern too . very good work

[NiankoSensei]

:O 13500 Tons weight ? i think 2500 3000 are enought for this ship, good job on textures and model, i have to learn for 1 or 2 lives for make something like this..... This lua for me work, is need to tune better exaust velocity [attachment=2247:nerodia.lua.zip] ops wrong angular thrust put it to 24e7

[torham2234]

:O 13500 Tons weight ? i think 2500 3000 are enought for this ship, good job on textures and model, i have to learn for 1 or 2 lives for make something like this..... I only tried to make it as big as the concept designer (nozmajner) told me to. Actually even that number is somewhat shaved down, the total volume of the ship is 17500 m3 The ship is also pretty big, for a sense of scale, the landing gear moves out by exactly 2 meters. When landed, you can actually walk underneath the ship. Here is an upgraded version with some windows, 2 optic navigation copulas and a small antenna... Also I have merged all the meshes into single one, and managed to keep the polygon count, even with the extra objects. Also rescaled some textures as it looks fine in lower resolution (glow map and specular)

[torham2234]

I could easily scale down the model by 1/5. That would give more reasonable stats.

[nozmajner]

Then go for it, nothing's set in stone. These are just thumbnails, that can miss points that come up when the model is ready. I was unable to look at the updated one yet, but sounds promising.

[torham2234]

Deleted the attachment form the post above and resubmitted a tweaked, smaller design. This one actually works, obviously the price is just for testing purposes...

[NiankoSensei]

3500 tons make it resonable usable with a lvl 9 hyperdrive Edit: i have calculated the volume of this ship and it is ~7000m³, 1m³ of wather is 15-16 tons, you have to calculate on those big ship a lot of not used space like crew cabins, flight bridge, cavities for pipes and cables, heating space ecc ecc, a 0.5 of the volume is a good value,but this is just what I think P.S. pattern02 crash my modelviewer

[torham2234]

The patternt works on my comp, I do however have an intermittent crash when restarting a new game 2-3 times on sol (so that I can buy the ship ) I am pretty sure 1m3 of water is exactly 1 ton - 10x10x10 (1 liter is 1010x10 cm) Here is my reasoning for the volumes: Total hull volume : 7000 m3 Cargo: 2500 m3 - 36% of the ships volume extra capacity : 700 m3 (10)% - this is a space in the ship that cannot be used as a cargo bay, but it is possible to install additional equipment into it. Shields, scanners, autopilot, fuel scoops, hyperdrive, all goes here Fuel tanks : 1000 (14%) - as shown on the picture, I have tried to fill any space that wasn't filled, but tried to leave enough space for the engines and other structural objects. Empty hull mass : 2800 m3 - 40 % of the total volume is the structural mass of the ship. That includes basic engines, living space, life support, batteries, power plant, heat sinks, etc, etc... PS: these are values from my work in progress lua...-- Copyright © 2008-2013 Pioneer Developers. See AUTHORS.txt for details-- Licensed under the terms of CC-BY-SA 3.0. See licenses/CC-BY-SA-3.0.txtdefine_ship {name='Nerodia Transport',model='nerodia',forward_thrust = 25e7,reverse_thrust = 14e7,up_thrust = 14e7,down_thrust = 8e7,left_thrust = 8e7,right_thrust = 8e7,angular_thrust = 8e7,camera_offset = v(0,0,15),gun_mounts ={{ v(0,-0.5,-10.7), v(0,0,-1), 5, 'HORIZONTAL' },},max_cargo = 2500,max_laser = 2,max_missile = 4,max_cargoscoop = 2,max_fuelscoop = 2,min_crew = 1,max_crew = 6,capacity = 3200,hull_mass = 2800,fuel_tank_mass = 1000,-- Exhaust velocity Vc [m/s] is equivalent of engine efficiency and depend on used technology. Higher Vc means lower fuel consumption.-- Smaller ships built for speed often mount engines with higher Vc. Another way to make faster ship is to increase fuel_tank_mass.effective_exhaust_velocity = 3e7,price = 562,hyperdrive_class = 9,}

[Vuzz]

what mean max gargoscoop and fuelscoop = 2 ? alls ships needs only one generaly , do you make that to boost the scoop speed ? 

[NiankoSensei]

venturestar is 7500m³ you can use it for strting values

[Potsmoke66]

good point vuzz, yes obviously you can only have one. hint:for most of the equipment the default is 1thus you only have to use i.e. "max_fuelscoop = 0" if you like to have NO fuelscoopthe use is "restrictive", one could say. this is the case for: max_engine (=hyperdrive) max_fuelscoop max_cargoscoop max_cargolifesupport max_ecm (i'm not sure about i guess here you can use 2, but nonetheless it defaults to 1. "2" if i remember right would allow to have both types of ECM at once) max_hypercloud max_energybooster max_fuelscoop max_cargoscoop max_lasercooler max_cargolifesupport max_hullautorepair max_radarmapper max_atmoshield all of them default to 1 and doesn't have to be specified if you like to allow this equipment.on the other hand, if i remember right it won't matter to say "max_fuelscoop = 2" anything else as 0 equals 1 as well. which leads to that only these are need to be specified if you like to allow all equipment: { max_cargo (needed) } max_laser (defaults to 0) max_missile (defaults to 0) max_cabin (defaults to how many tons are left) { min_crew (needed ?) } { max_crew (needed) } { capacity (needed) } { hull_mass (needed) } { fuel_tank_mass = (needed) } { hyperdrive_class = (needed but "0" is allowed) } --- to the ship, no critzism, but i guess it's way to large and heavy, or in other words i miss little fighters(with heavy restrictions like a shitty retro thrust, or just enough cargo space for some but not all "necessary" equipment,i.e. i fit two missiles but then i have to forgo some other equipment),they make the fun in the game.as "weaker" the ship as bigger the challange is. or what is experience of most FE2 players,in the beginning you certainly like to own each ship at least once, but after that you will find out that they 1st aren't handy (what they should be, it's either a nimble fighter or a clumsy carrier) 2nd you will get more fun out of the game with a small ship, imho.medium sized or multi role should have even some disadvantages, like a weak bottom thruster (i.e. cobra mk3),or probably a mediacre or low hyperspace range (i.e. imp. courier), but to compensate this a maneuverability like a small fighter. we haven't so many equipment only for good, use it, play around with it, restrict ship specs. not without reason geraldine commands a "sidewinder" and i prefere the "cobra mk1" or a "constrictor",many prefere the "viper", but well even this ship leaks of something (something we haven't, limited manual control).from the pov of FE2 seen, carriers make finally only fun to deploy mining machines. at least i find it not very entertaining to own a "panther" and mount shields to the rim to get invulnerable.

[robn]

Fyi, slot defaults are (as of 22 September 2013, for those reading in the future):max_cargo = 0max_engine = 1max_laser = 1max_missile = 0max_ecm = 1max_scanner = 1max_radarmapper = 1max_hypercloud = 1max_hullautorepair = 1max_energybooster = 1max_atmoshield = 1max_cabin = 50max_shield = 9999max_fuelscoop = 1max_cargoscoop = 1max_lasercooler = 1max_cargolifesupport = 1max_autopilot = 1capacity = 0hull_mass = 100fuel_tank_mass = 5price = 0min_crew = 1max_crew = 1hyperdrive_class = 1These are only the number of items of that type you can carry. Its still subject to overall remaining capacity.Note that most equipment only considers the first item in a slot. So in the case of max_ecm, you can set it > 1 and equip more ECMs, but the game will only consider the first one.

[walterar]

@robn In your spare time :laugh: might update: [url]http://eatenbyagrue.org/f/pioneer/codedoc/files/LuaBody-cpp.html[/url] Contains very useful info for those who wants to make game modules for Pioneer.

[NiankoSensei]

I can cleanup nerodia model and after give you for texturing ?