Is it time to start requiring shaders?

[robn]

As you know, Pioneer has two renderers - a "legacy" shaderless renderer, and a more modern renderer that uses shaders.The shader support requires OpenGL 2.0 which has been around since 2004 and widely supported in graphics hardware since 2007.We're now at the point where were starting to get enough changes requiring shaders in the core code that its becoming difficult to maintain. It would be good if we could drop the legacy renderer entirely and start requiring shaders.You probably fit into one of three categories:You have vaguely modern equipment and you're already using shaders, and removing legacy wouldn't make a difference (if you don't know which renderer you're using, you're probably using the modern one, since its the default)Your hardware can support shaders, but you don't run with it enabled (perhaps due to glitches or slowness). Running with shaders would be possible, but inconvenientYou have no shader support, and Pioneer would be unplayableThat second point is particularly interesting. The intent is that we'd start to provide shaders that provide different quality settings. That might not happen straight away though, but if the demand was high it'd likely happen sooner.So help us decide by answering the poll. Thanks!

[Vuzz]

For me shaders are always on ..

[Guest]

Always with shaders except when I had glitches caused by the eclipse effect + ati drivers.

[Zordey]

Since I think I originally overturned this rock, i'll say that I did turn off shaders on my work machine for performance reasons. Recently however I have found that enabling shaders and disabling the eclipse shader from the config allows me to run acceptably well. I voted 1 (since its not inconvenient for 'me') but having finer control of which shaders are used (and making the options easier to access for users) would IMO be a useful feature for average users.

[fluffyfreak]

@Zordey, it wasn't you, I've been pushing for this for ages ;)it's really starting to get in the way of stuff I want to do or seen done.

[shadmar]

gogo shaders!! :)Much eyecandy to be had if legacy is to be dropped.

[robn]

I voted 1 (since its not inconvenient for 'me') but having finer control of which shaders are used (and making the options easier to access for users) would IMO be a useful feature for average users.Definitely. That's the "quality settings" I mentioned in the original post.

[Cody]

As an outsider, I wouldn't vote - but you gotta ditch the legacy stuff sometime.

[fluffyfreak]

1 person voted that it would become unplayable, would they mind sharing the reason it would be unplayable? Does yo/there gpu not support OpenGL 2.0?Can it not be upgraded (laptop)?Is the performance too slow with shaders?

[Cody]

Can it not be upgraded (laptop)?We still see this every so often on the Oolite forum - the early intel integrated gfx are mierda!

[fluffyfreak]

@Cody, yes the Intel "GPUs" are just a bag of shit, they're 99.99% of the problem whatever the OS.Can't let them hold back progress forever though. EDIT: I should add that I have one of the newer Intel GPUs that will run the game, a HD4000, however it's slow as a dog and so I use the nVidia 650M whenever it's possible to do so.My most wonderful, fevered dream is that Intel license the nVidia GPUs now that it's become an option and drop these crappy things. Even the GOOD Intel GPUs are still slower than the low/mid range nVidia ones.

[robn]

To be fair, Intel GPUs are only intended for "incidental" graphics work like desktop compositing. They were never really meant for the kind of demand games put on them, even though they can handle some low-end stuff. And the power consumption is an issue on laptops - firing up the Nvidia when I'm on battery leads to a fairly short session at the computer and thus a rather disappointing train ride home ;)My Intel is a HD3000. It plays Pioneer fine, just slow. Once we have a "low quality" set of shaders, I'll be running on those most of the time.

[csory]

Shaders on. All the time. Just add the "low quality" option - never hurts

[FS3D]

I've been using sharers for years. Had an 8800GTS from 2007 to 2011, then got myself a GTX 470, so no problem there.

[fluffyfreak]

2 people say unplayable but still no explanation as to why :/

[Zordey]

Both my work and home laptops when using the inbuilt Intel 3000 graphics play at <10fps so I would say unplayable . It would be interesting if the 2 'unplayable' votes could try and turn off the eclipse shader in the config and see if this changes their vote. Turning off the eclipse shader pushes both my machines to 30+ fps

[fluffyfreak]

Maybe we should parse the opengl vendor string for the word "Intel" and just turn off stuff like that by default - meaning on for everyone else by default, but requires turning it on manually if using Intel?Perhaps with a warning message to let players know.

[Cody]

Maybe we should parse the opengl vendor string for the word "Intel" and just turn off stuff like that by default<nods> We do something similar in Oolite for specific problems.

[fluffyfreak]

@Cody, hmm, that's a shame I was hoping it wouldn't be necessary these days :/

[robn]

I'd just put the eclipse shader in the "medium" or "high" quality setting and leave it at that.