Hello,

I'm doing some "Necro-posting" here, but I find this thread so interesting, that I just couldn't resist in responding.

I have recently posted a similar basic question about implementing planetary ground stuff, and I think UncleBob's reply is a remarquable effort in explaining to simple "players" like me (although with some coding experience) how difficult all this stuff is to implement. Especially, not everyone understands that getting better grafics, inserting new ships, changing the menu aspect etc. is way easier than "just" implementing a free walker on the planet.

Yes, gameplay is prime and the efforts of developers have to be considered. But there is also another aspect in all this.

I'm VERY glad that Developers like Derek Smart or David Braben have not read UncleBob's reply before doing AD3000 or Elite: Too much work involved... You do a mission twice and then it gets old... Walking on planets ?! ...

Do you get my point? I mean, as a developer you must also assume that "players" are mature in some way and play the game in a flexible way which will be interesting FOR THEM (and not for the developer).

For example the game Parkan 1 had a rather bad reception from developers of the genre (and also from some gamers), but then, if you just overlook the outdated grafics and other oddities, there is actually a way to play the game in order to become very interesting, at least from the tactical way of play which is not the case with most other games of the genre that have the hightest tonnage of features, great grafics etc. but a rather boresome gameplay.

It broils down to it that by adding a "common-sense" feature (in this case: planetary actions) you cannot exclude for the future that it will open to something completly new, what never has been before and will be amazing in gameplay.

The other extreme example is this:

http://www.gamedev.net/page/community/gds/view/_/action/jetlag-2003-r2

To be good and attractive, the grafics musn't be good, no many features, no bells & wis, just...playable 😎

Oh, and...it's a <SPACE> game 🙂

Thanks all of you for these great inside views!

Cheers,

XenonS

HI zugz,

Is it possible to get your EVA in the newest version of Pioneer  (currently 29 ) by simply getting your lua & other files in the directory tree or will I have to adjust other things?

Thanks very much for telling me. Also I will carefully study these luas, Always good to learn something!

Cheers,

XenonS

It's more involved than that XenonS, you'll have to make similar changes to the code of Alpha29.

It doesn't look like a lot of work but there have been a lot of changes to the code base in the last 11 months since Zugz wrote it.

Hi fluffyfreak,

thanks for responding. Yeah, that's what I suspected.

But the good thing is: By studying Zugz's files, it will give me the right picture about what I want to know essentially: such add-ons require lots of coding skills and must be very time-demanding. At some point I think that they must be the fruit of a complete teamwork.

And this aslo explains the careful thoughts of developers about any features added. In order to understand it, you'll have to see it.

Thanks,

XenonS

Nice topic 🙂

I don't really mind not being able to get out. I might just be crazy, but what I usually do is just go play another game that is kinda in the same setting (i.e. sci-fi) and just pretend that it's the same person i'm playing in the previous game that's lacking the utility I want (i.e. land walking). One day there'll be a game that incorporates all those cool aspects, but not for a couple of years now.

baobobafet,

you may want to take a look at Evochron Mercenaries v.2.xxxx (expansion + update version). They have just implemented a Mesh-like walker for mining duties so you can take mining missions on the planet. The fact is: in Evochron this implementation is convincing which would not necessarily be the case in Pioneer or other games. Does it fit the pace of the action? Are the planets earth-like so you can "reasonably" walk out without being crashed by temperature or pressure? What kind of missions can you take and do they fit in the plot or the game context? In EM you cannot land on planets like in Pioneer or Ad Astra, you will come to a hover-stop some meters above the ground. This is not because there are some code limitations, it has been shown that the game code can easily be modified to allow that, instead the authors wanted to make sure to get a reasonable action overall.

Seen by a purist (which I am not), you should not even be on the planet for 5 minutes...the temperature would impede romantic sightings and get you vaporized, or you would be on an icy world with some dust on the surface, nothing to mine for sure...See what has happened with the Russian Venus landcrafts some decades ago: Although the few fotos are awesome, they didn't get much for their money...Believe me,if the scientists could have seen this comming they would have made all possible NOT to land...

All those are serious questions before a dev will even start thinking about doing some code... As I understand, in EM this was done because a lot of the game fans wanted such extra stuff. In this case, the dev will think differently of course, also because getting financial feedback.

Also, compare Pioneer, Ad Astra, Evochron with a game like Parkan: The Empire Chronicles, Parkan II, Salvation Prophecy. In those games, the planetrary actions or even ship boardings in 3D all fit together with the action.

XenonS

Very interesting topic indeed. 🙂 Here's my two cents about the topic:

Mining:

The idea of mining to me is more like having mining ships in the game. This mining ships have a special artifact in the bottom of the craft that you have to land in the planet and then activate the artifact like a tube(just like you activate the wheels down) and pierce the surace of the planet then slowly filling the the cargo with minerals. This would force the player to land on a planet and wait to fill the cargo so it will dramaticaly change the pace of the game. I also think there should be crafts in the game that are unable to accelerate time or move to far from the surface of a planet.

I remember Gernot made a model of a little astronaut. I think that model would be perfect for this kind of missions. 😀

I'm quite sure these things are possible for this team. The difference between the first versions of the game and the game now is abysmal, so I wouln't be surprised to see this happening in the future! Maybe we can even see mechs fighting in the surface of planets who knows. 🙂

I would love the ability to go EVA.  I'd rather have it on "foot" before there were vehicles though.  Either is a massive deviation from the main purpose of the game.  

That said, I envision the ultimate complete version I'll fund after I invent something useful everyone needs would have Mobile Infantry jetting around between tracked tanks, grav vehicles, and numerous civilians and animals wondering around with a full economy and pseudo civlization on each individual world.  

EVA?! As a Canadian, I have to ask... why do you hate our arms? 😛

Whenever I hear the term 'sandbox' about a game, it is a major criteria for me in terms of whether it is a game I will investigate or not.

The main reason for me is I simply don't have the time (or inclination for that matter) to spend learning different key setups for every different genre of game.

Diversity of play is important for boredom not to creep in.

Planets with molten surfaces wouldn't be where I would go fishin'. But it could be made available with proper shielding and using the

 atmospheric heat shield temp readout as a gauge to maintain a safe proximity from molten materials. (distance to center of planet decrease = heat increase calc)

Speed it another factor in determining duration over such areas and whether heat is given the time to penetrate into any such vessels.

(after all we have ships that scoop gas off suns) 

Mining for ice/water on most worlds should be possible (whether profitable or not)

Why would one even want to do any mining at all  for that matter one might ask.?

For me, the main reason is fun factor. Something to change routine in a game is important to stave of any repetition.

Don't forget there are likely plenty of even single asteroids out there that have minerals enough to dwarf the entire supply of precious metals found on Earth many times over.

Slow moving craft for surface exploration is not really what I had in mind (although some of these vehicles would no doubt be necessary).

I'd love to be able to explore some planet surfaces using the terrain in a more user interactive way. It just doesn't seem real to me unless you can jump up and down on it.

(metaphorically speaking)

Land vehicles bring that experience home (especially since there are no plans to support players being able to walk on surfaces) 

New (younger) players who are experiencing Pioneer for the first time may get disenchanted by the myriad of controls and factors involved to pilot a ship successfully.

Creating simplified vehicles that could be used as an optional starting point in the game - would allow a player to progress up to the point of acquiring his first ship.

He may appreciate that small scout ship all the more because he can use it to recon and target specific mining areas - that he would then be able to exploit with the proper land hover mining vehicle.

Over time he could afford a bigger ship and by then be well acquainted with how to properly pilot it.

Opening the rest of the game up in a measured progressive manner.

I think the models and artwork and graphics faction currently is doing most of the work on pioneer and the functionality and features and content team is undermanned so exploration and ingame "changes and impacts on player decisions" and the "living unvierse" elements are on the baackburner gunna download it an play around anyway i still like my eye  candy