hi walter ar

**OFF TOPIC!**
i peeped into your clips and pioneer looks great
(with some restrictions).

recently i can't play pioneer, thus it has no use to write just one line of a script.

maybe as soon as i'm able i will pick up my puristic "Sputnik" project and bring it finally to a end.
i had the idea to concetrate more on procedural generated stuff - you know me - my idea of generated missions.... however, this isn't the right place.

well we have nice (kitschig) colored nebulas, but i assume except of your fine work little to do in pioneer.
a game certainly attracts with it graphics
but gameplay is something different and works even with a plain vector graphic.
i assume the cities still look like out of a pepper shaker and we still have no way to seperate between hostile and outdoor worlds -
am i right?

promise (to you)
as soon as i'm able to play pioneer again i will also start to work on my models again.

**that's it so far for pioneer.**

RECENTLY
my task is to fill FFED3D with models, i'm maybe not the best modeler but a productive one and two models a week are to expect.
after it was such greatly enhanced by Andy there is the urge to finally replace all models, to use as much as possible of the sub-models for the cities to keep the random look.

this is in my mind since long,
long ago i felt i was only a fifth wheel to FFED3D, they had a team of modellers and i was the nube,
this has changed much,
elite-games.ru cancelled development of FFED3D and finally someone picked up the remnants,
which brings little me back on the floor.

v0: 2, 1, 0
v2: 2, -1, 0
quad: v0, v1, v3, v2

besides, the task to analyze and use the city structures of FFE will also give me some experience to what i like to do for pioneer.
analyze -> copy -> develop own
just like the our friends from Nippon
NO
i know 100 years ago gemany was feared for this
but that's the way it works and i see no reason why copying shouldn't be good, you copy, you learn and finally you can make your own.

have phun!

and never forget "diesen hier" 😉
![]( "")

AndyJ

do you solved the "pond problem" (i've read this on elite-games.ru)?

sure i can take a look at such problems.
buildings have a funny attitude in FFED3D, since the game is righthanded and in what i call "architectural view" with the Y axis pointing upwards. if you centre a object on the X/Y plane it will be completely wrong because the model will be centered on the X/Z plane. rotation and position can also be altered within the models toplevel frame, a mesh oriented lefthanded will stay lefthanded only the orientation matrix of the toplevel-frame changes by adding a animation this can lead sometimes to problems if one is oriented in a different way as the other.

thus instead to alter the rotion of the part in blender i would try first to rotate the model with the matrix, that's maybe the best way.

(kinda like that the chappel from "Schmerikon" goes around the world)

i guess the pond is never called alone he's always submodel of a larger model if i remember this proper.
on the other hand it should play no role in which orientation it's been called....

object # 248:
"2E6E 4061 ; Subobject(371:Swimming pool, Vertex(97), Orientation(40h))"

object # 277:
"2E6E 000A ; Subobject(371:Swimming pool, Vertex(10), Orientation(00h))"

however once it's oriented the same as subobject # 371 it should appear the same as it.

i will take a closer look at this at home, i can't run FFED3D on my mothers mac.

hi andy,

i have to take a look at what version it is, but i'm sure not 1.1 because i didn't noticed such a change to the tris.ini

to the church (how could this tiny model hold one this much up?)
i hope i fixed this with my new model, but i can't tell exactly i never waited twelve hours to see what happens
and since it shows the your machines time....

but yes i quickly changed the time on the system and it alwys reflected the proper time, thus i assume it's ok now.

before i worked (for what reson i forgot) with a speed of two frames per sec, now it's 1 frame per second for the clock
if i remember it right i edited the previous models animation because i've made a mistake (besides i made one even this time and stupidly my clock showed seconds and minutes instead of minutes and hours).

well only thing is it should show the game time....

however if one likes to know what time of day it is for real he can fly to the next church - if that makes sense 🙂

and well i removed the cross and replaced it with a weathercock - that's much more neutral.

----

good thing to give the possibility of rotating a object with the tris.ini, however i took a look at the pool and quickly fixed it.
(sometimes but that's typically gernot, i transform models in the X mesh, whereelsefore you have a top level frame to translate, rotate and scale the whole model?).
but i can't remember that it's a little to large (or really just a tiny bit), i compared it with the exported pond (or pool) model.
i guess i even compared it with the original vectors (finally i got it how the models in FFE are scaled, i didn't understand it fully what's the reason but it has something with the hex system to do and that you have no floating point and must multiply and/or divide always integer numbers.
however the table i wrote me down compared to the "metrical" output of FFED3D shows this,
scale 7 = 0.0128
scale 8 = 0.0256
scale 9 = 0.0512
scale 10 = 0.1024
an so on).

btw SCALE

the SCALED SUBMODELS
GIVE ME HEADAKES

really, it's something i would really like to see solved, even if i'm not sure if there is a way to solve this problem.
but it would be more as just cool if the submodels would be scaled like the original geometry

this would solve at least two issues,
the scanner which is either to small or to large (even other antennas fuelscoop and such)
and the dome model for which i find no acceptable solution except it's scalable.
but personally i guess it should be possible,
there is a scale for it in the model who calls the submodel
though this number (or table) can be read.

or am i wrong?

----

well i have a lot of questions - really, also some issues i stumbled over

something is annoying in the shipdata.txt

besides it's not your fault you're not responsible for the way the shipdata mod

first the main and retro thrust is mixed up
retro thrust gets a bigger value when the hex value it's simply translated to a decimal number
but mr. braben is a killer
he splitted 0xFF or 0xFFFF or 0xFFFFFF into two sections (when needed for coordinates and such values
which can be negative, even and also the rotation of the turrets works in this way)
a lower range up to 80 (as example for a word) which reflects positive numbers
a upper range counted downwards from 0xFF to 0x80 reflecting negative values
this system stays in the whole game if it is for the galactical coordinates
as for thrust values or many else.

the values are proper but the description of what is main or retro is wrong
unfortunately the bigger number is a negative value.

this translating to decimal leaves more issues in the shipdata.txt
and i guess the hex values would be better
however it could be read different (better) - no?

next mistake in hex numbers is the hyperdrive
there are only type 0x0 to 0xF possible
thus numbers will range only from 0 to 15, i'm very sorry for this.
i assume when this had been made for FFE the following 0x80 has been mistakely taken as leading 0x80
this value hardly changes and 90% of the ships have this value on this position
it doesn't belongs to the hyperdrive type anyway

the output of 0xnn80 makes it very difficult to determine which hyperdrive it will be and
to be sure i have to take the output of "show(FFE)mesh" at hand and compare the real content
to this number - in general translate it back to hex and discount the **** 0x80 (if it's 0x80,
in very rare occasions this value changes and i don't know what for it is, i assumed once
(what is now even listed in shipdata) "elite points" because the value stays on 256 for most ships
ok 0x80 is only 128 but 128 is half of 256 but such stinks to me...
however if i change the value for the hyperdrive in the shipdata.txt,
i probably even change a value which doesn't reflects the hyperdrive and does anything else - anything...

to take instead of a dblword a word is problematic because you know this the value will be wrong
this 0x80 FOLLOWS another word and it's not a dblword which will be read different
0x0A80 isn't the same as 0x0A 0x80.
but i remember that "theunis de jong" moaned much about this behave in FE2/FFE
"once it's word next time a dblword or a longword or it's bit encoded, it looks like it was made randomly but it isn't"

then i stumbled over a doubled output for turret and gun positions
it's a mess and i liked to show a example but i haven't it ready here in my moms place.

besides what i would like as much as gun positions
would be a possibility to move the thrusters or labels if needed
it's not a problem which has any priority but i would like it.

Hi everyone, maybe that's not exactly the right place to ask this question but that's the latest active thread on FFED3D so I thought I could ask here, feel free to move it if it's not, here's my question :

I downloaded the ittiz pack and it works, I have yet to install AJ's stuff on top of it, at the start of the game it tells you that it's based on JJFFE 2.8a6 version, but elsewhere on internet there are mentions of a 2.8 a7 version, I'm just curious as to what are the changes between the two versions, wether AJ's version includes those changes, etc...

and of course bravo to the great community that's working on FFE, fantastic job you all !

Hi AndyJ, thank you for the clarifications, I managed to download and install all your mod and Nanite's but now I'm stuck with a game that crashes to the desktop as soon as I hit a key to leave the intro movie... I tried various resolutions, windowed and fullscreen, plus a few other things like reducing antialiasing, using original FFE models etc but it's always the same... I get to see the starting view with the starport but Windows instantly tells me the game "stopped working" without more details (windows 10). I notice that while Nanite's textures are working I still have the original FFE cockpit thou I'm sure I have installed it too... I'm using a HP laptop but the keyboard specs don't seem to have the Media Center stuff mentionned in your README.

I'll keep trying stuff this week-end.

Hi AndyJ,

I had one panel.X file in the models folder (as well as many other files), and the cockpit textures those from nanite in the textures folder (incidentally I noticed that while I get the original FFE cockpit, I have a more modern-looking red triangle on the right panel (the thing that tells you you can't take off when you haven't asked for clearance...)).

if it can help : during the intro sequence, I get the very nice jupiter texture on the big planet, but when the earth-like planet appears in the distance at first it's only triangles, no textures, then when the camera gets closer that planet has textures but the athmosphere is too bright, completely white, on the sunlit side.

I don't think it's a windows 10 issue, as I gave administrator rights to the executable.

Thank you,
I'm running a HP pavillon, 64 bits windows, with 6Go memory, Intel® Core™ i3-4030U CPU @ 1.90GHz × 4
the graphic card there's a Nvidia in it but I don't know how much memory it has.
I tried various settings with it I'll PM you the latest ones,
Install was all taken from the repo on this site : Ittiz, the 3 AJ files, the 4 nanite files, and an other one called Stars and planets (and the replacement sound FX too), I just extracted your files over the Ittiz stuff, then followed instructions from nanite to put the textures in the textures file.
All this is in a FFED3D folder in my desktop folder on hard drive C:
I also tested with the alternate starting positions and they crash too. If I hit th key "'4" I can access the game menu to try to load a saved game, but the graphics are blurry around the text, and it crashes too.
OL

Update : I remade a clean install with only Ittiz and your stuff, the other difference with this install is that beside the Bass.dll file I refused to overwrite the various files when asked (for model.X etc).

Now I get the new version of the cockpit, I also get the nebulas in the background of the intro movie that I didn't have before.

But it still crashes when I hit a key to begin the game.
Is there a way to make windows give more precise data on crashes ?

I did use your Bass.dll in the new install, but not the textures...
I'll try to move the folder to C: and use all your new textures.
I'll change the name of sound directory too, but I get proper music in the intro movie.
I run FFED3DAJ (tried all each other once, to same result).

I'll try that, but maybe next week as I'm busy tomorrow.

I've tested with the FFE folder directly in C: and changing FX folder name etc, and it still crashes, tried various compatibility modes that Win 10 proposed me, to no avail.

Thanks for you tips anyway.

Hi, and thank you for working on this, I'll be trying all that when I'll have some time this week-end (as I don't have much time aside week-end and on top of that I'm using Linux and have to reboot on windows to make each test with FFE).

EDIT : I checked one thing that bothered me : the d3dx9_43.dll file that's needed to run the game, I do have it, one in the windows/system32 folder and one in the windows/sysWOW64 folder, but they are spelled in capital letters D3DX9_43.dll while all the other versions of the file (d3dx10_43.dll etc) are named in lower case, could that be a problem ? I'm not daring to touch anything in those folders to check...

Tried with the FX and music folders back to normal and sounds off in the settings, still crashes, I'll PM you the log file, but aside from two "non-lethal" errors while loading model 25 it reads entirely like a success story, so I wonder if it might just be Win 10 mistakenly thinking the game has ceased running while it has not (when I hit the spacebar to quit the intro sequence, my laser does shoot and I get the message from New Rossyth police that I'm fined, but there's the pop-up message that tells me the game "has ceased functioning" and then no keyboard input is taken in account and all I can do is click in the message, which terminates the program for good).

EDIT : also, Bass.dll is the version from your pack (last modified in 2014 while Ittiz's is from 2006), I'll try downloading from the latest from Un4seen Developpement.

Hi,

I can have the intro repeat several times no problem, I need to check for mouse (well, pad as it's a laptop), when the dialogue appears, the game seems to still be updating as the text about the fine comes up and down and seconds are still counted during this (didn't check how long that can go on), but the laser beam doesn't vanish...

as soon as I click to close the pop-up message (either on the close app button or on the red button with a cross in the up-right corner to closer its window) the game is terminated (it also does that if I try to click somewhere in the taskbar which does re-appear with the pop-up message), so I don't know how to leave it (I tried leaving the session entirely but obviously that closes everything).

I don't know if I have other problems with Windows, I almost never uses it except for when I need to transfer some files via a bluetooth device which Ubuntu can't handle at the moment and so I also do a bit of text editing and (very few) internet with it. But for the few times I use it there's no problem.

I'll check what I can.

I tried the first updated Bass.dll, the game froze at the splash screen. I'll try the other.

Hi, if it can help : the error code I found by looking up the event viewer is 0xC0000005 (access violation) it's given by FFED3DAJ, not by a dll, apparently that can be related to either :
- Hardware 3D acceleration (but all the graphic setups I could find on my machine mention either performance optimisation or quality optimisation, so I don't know how to diable "hardware" stuff only)
- Data exécution protection, I looked up to disable it, but all I could find was that it's already setup to only apply to windows programs so that should not be a problem, and anyway my machine has it implemented through Hardware so I would need to dabble with the boot (BCD) files to do that which I'm not sure how to do.

graphics in the intro are not jerky at all even at max settings.

hi folks
something i didn't read about here
the "opengl32.dll" and "glu32.dll"
on my odd old XP it appears i won't need the ones which come with FFED3D for AJ's builds
it works (now) fine with the default xp ones
while in the past it needed the especially it's own "opengl32.dll" because of a few instructions that where different to the
standard one.
i simply assumed it's because yep you preferred to use the genuine microsoft libraries to build your build.

however by reading this problem it reminded me of a crashing FFED3D when i didn't used it's specific "opengl32.dll".

the new build reported me sometimes therefore (but i haven't seen this message for a while)
"the game will run only on a 32bit windows" (i guess) while hmmm...
old XP IS ONLY 32bit.

another test to try is to move some classic XP libraries to the game folder
windows will search for libraries first in the programs root folder
before it searches in the system folders this allows to use special build libraries.
by putting stuff in the games root folder your'e also on a safe side
you didn't alter the system you only alter what's used for a specific software.
usually this is the default behave of windows even for a 64bit to give priority to the root folder
however when i tried to run old games on my 64bit win7 i needed sometimes the compatibility mode
or used the more advanced compatibility "wizard" (i guess, it's a free software from microsoft but you need to download it)
which gives you exact control about the settings for compatibility.
sometimes they already ran by putting the proper (old) dll's in the games root folder
typical stuff is
opengl32.dll
msvcrt(various versions).dll

for certain games, but this won't be the case for FFED3D, i simply had to limit the RAM to a max. of 2GB.

to sad i have no win10 64bit because i guess i'm quite good in getting old 32bit games running on a 64bit platform
at least i ran a lot of games which was told to be "unplayable".
most of all it's the incompatibility of certain 64bit libs, expected DX version or visual-c version.
but i guess all this shouldn't be the case for FFED3D, but well shouldn't....

----

the only thing i can say is - it crashes - sometimes often (in my case while loading the models) then again it can run very smooth, but i don't mind as long as it's that randomly neither it's really bound to the models or the cache size it just crashes sometimes 2 or 3 times then again it starts proper while i have more models or loaded more that's why i say "randomly".

----

i would have some technical questions, not espeacially models related but also,
but i guess i better start a new thread for detailed technical questions
to keep the space here for the heavy problems.

----

something else
does FFED3D depend on the presence of FIRSTENC.EXE and MISSION.DAT?
for the firstenc.exe i'm sure it doesn't depends on its presence
but about mission.dat i'm not sure - i never removed it to see what happens.

the shareware FFE version is handed out without mission.dat and will of course run without it.
thus if i remember right JJFFE does also you only can't hire for any of the FFE typical missions.

>! even if i obtain the mission.dat also in german, i never played FE2 or FFE in another language as english. it makes no sense to me, i feel "Elite" has to be english, but i "feel" this for many games... still this or that wil remain of the original language it was made with, for FFE this are the "cheesy" clips, they remain in english and thus the game has to be played in english 😉 - or not, it's a matter of choice. else yeah, but that's just a stupid idea, it would had to be esperanto or another artificial language made especially for a thought future community of mankind. but on the other hand, if the francophones and chinese like it or not, with a very high chance english will be the only language in future to be understood by all mankind. see that's what i guess about "translations" i also thought they are needless for pioneer but i know not everybody shares my opinion.

another Q.
you still got the midi soundfiles in your build (?)
i noticed they won't be played by ffed3daj (anymore)
but neither i really guess that they will be the reason for the crash (?).

>! i found midi ffe tracks which was "pimped" on a real roland keyboard by somone named "Mike Cook", i mp3'ed them using good old soundblasters software midi interpreter which sounds far better as the software midi player of ms. imho they sound better as the "hq" versions which elite-games distributed. if interested this is the link to my "[FFED3D Music]( https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhX1Ed1178sOhRTWgj9bDdgq72SK "https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhX1Ed1178sOhRTWgj9bDdgq72SK")" folder on OneDrive: [FFED3D Music]( https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhX1Ed1178sOhRTWgj9bDdgq72SK "https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhX1Ed1178sOhRTWgj9bDdgq72SK") the original FFE music is in "MUSIC - Mike Cook", while there will be a second quite large file named "MUSIC - Modules", it contains a lot of soundtracker modules from years ago plus the "mike cook remix" in mp2 (22050kHz, it's far enough for a midi or especially soundtracker modules which use 8bit samples in 11kHz) for reasons of filesize. it's partwisely weird music though use it by choice, listen to it otherwise or trash it. but i guess there is at least one who is lunatic enough to like this music. i like it even if i usually listen to rock music - only classical music suits better to ffe but this i'm not allowed to share as much as i would like to. i already get problems with some PD classical music i used from archive.org. the damned stupid robot of YT classifies a bach organ transcription from "respighi" as a copyrighted one from "stockovski", shitty robot. anyway the struggle with classical music is a riddle to me, it's a riddle overall because i feel the organ compositions belong to j.s. bach and not to a damned lawyer or a company, ergo even mr. jackson compositions would belong only to him and if you're dead they belong to mankind, i guess it's spoken fair if i say real artists think this way, if not you must be one of the parasites or opportunistic enough to deal with them.

Thank you AndyJ, I was too busy to make many other tries recently, what I can tell you is :
- the load screen does not crash (it had a weird graphic glitch before I managed to get the upgraded cockpit gfx that's all), it crashes once I select a save file to load (any save).
- I was mistaken about the timer, it doesn't count on, and the message about the fine doesn't go down, I'm sorry for this bad report, I mentioned that from memory before re-trying, the message about the fine is already up there when the screen shows the 3D view, so in fact probably no new frame is drawn.
- all the event viewer gives is hexa values which I'm not sure what they are, I'll get them if it can help.
- trying to read stuff on this memory access violation thing it sounds like an antivirus thing, could it be related to that hardware protection I have on my model ? I've tried disabling all I can in antivirus on my system but there is some stuff that I can't touch, apparently I would need to go into the BIOS/EFI to do that...
- I haven't run across anything that would suggest a problem with the hard drive when using the computer under Linux (which is on the same drive as windows).

i shouldn't comment when i'm sober 😉

thanks steve, what would i do without your fine website.
it was and it's still the adress i will return to if i need some info,
recently it was "where to hell can i download AJ's build"
(i didn't expected it on SSC, yet)

of course a big hug to Andy who keeps the project alive.

it took me a little onger as expected to return and recently i downloaded 1.11 and i hope i'm up to date.

things didn't turned out as expected and i'm somewhat frustrated with the result of the "back to work project".
on the other hand it will be to the favour of the few FFED3D players, i got more time left now.
that won't interest you much, i guess, but it's of interest that, in despite of all the electrical and meteor showers, i'm here.

right now, after it didn't turns out like i suggested, i said to myself "if you don't find a job then do what you can do best"
and that's creating funny spaceships and talking bullshit.

i got to scramble what is on my models thread and hope i can fix all the reported issues for you, steve.

Hope Andy does not mind me butting in here, but I feel something has to be said.
Gernot your ships were never "funny", they were created with a keen eye on their details and designs. Even now what Frontier calls an Imperial Courier in Elite Dangerous has nothing on your beautiful design.
ED's IC
Ok I guess but now compare it to the "real" thing!

Now that is what I call an Imperial Courier! B)
I am gonna say it here and now folks, Frontier ought to have given you a job Gernot, the ships you could create with the tools they have.... 😮
Gernot you have a rare talent for creativity in your ship designs. You can take what is basically a rough guide provided by the primitive shapes given in the older Elite games and breath life into them. Make them look like real functioning ships while still staying true to their original designs. Your an artist Gernot, and never let anyone tell you different.

I also agree with Andy's great advice there, yes do things in your own time, when you feel like it. If it stops being fun, then stop and go do something else until you feel like having another go at it.

Much of what I said there also applies to you Andy. It's simply amazing what you have achieved with FFE3D. If Gernot is a true artist when it comes to ship designs, you are too when it comes to coxing so much more out of the old game code of Elite III.
I just look at both of you and can only wonder how you both do it (it might as well be called magic to me at least) and I am forever grateful to both you and all the others (the Ooliters, The Pioneer Devs, must not forget Vuzz & Walterar either, and the Russians for their early work on FFE3D) who refused to let a 30 plus year old game die. You guys are a big part of reason why there is a new Elite game today, you all kept that dream alive for all those years.
Thank you. 🙂

grabbed the latest stuff, downloaded pages for offline reading
i'm ready for take-off.

return in a couple of days,
everything is running cool.

STEVE i know what you ment with "computers....!"
> "I really hate this damn machine, I wish that they would sell it. It never does just what I want, But only what I tell it."
i guess this describes your problem with computers well

>! quotes = {
>! "Ill play with it first and tell you what it is later. MILES DAVIS",
>! "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. HASSAN I SABBAH",
>! "Dont let your mouth write no check that your tail cant cash. BO DIDDLEY",
>! "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. NIELS BOHR",
>! "Just because everything is different doesnt mean anything has changed. SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA ORACLE",
>! "The most merciful thing in the world ... is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H P LOVECRAFT",
>! "Take what you can use and let the rest go by. KEN KESEY",
>! "Its not the size of the ship, its the size of the waves. LITTLE RICHARD",
>! "I never loved another person the way I loved myself. MAE WEST",
>! "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. SIGMUND FREUD",
>! "When choosing between two evils I always like to take the one I've never tried before. MAE WEST",
>! "Honest Officer, had I known my health stood in jeprody I would never had lit one.",
>! "It is a rather pleasent experience to be alone in a bank at night. WILLIE SUTTON",
>! "Never invest your money in anything that eats or needs painting. BILLY ROSE",
>! "The rich will do anything for the poor but get off their backs. KARL MARX",
>! "If Karl, instead of writing a lot about capital, had made a lot of it ... it would have been much better. KARL MARX'S MOTHER",
>! "When I sell liquor, its called bootlegging; when my patrons serve it on Lake Shore Drive, its called hospitality. AL CAPONE",
>! "Anything anybody can say about America is true. EMMETT GROGAN",
>! "Tip the world over on its side and everything loose will land in Los Angeles. FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT",
>! "If you've seen one city slum, you've seen them all. SPIRO AGNEW",
>! "If you've seen one redwood, you've seen them all. RONALD REAGAN",
>! "Use it up ... Wear it out. Make it do ... Or do without. US WORLD WAR II MESSAGE",
>! "You cant underestimate the power of fear. TRICIA NIXON",
>! "The whole earth is in jail and we're plotting this incredible jailbreak. WAVY GRAVY",
>! "The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. BUCKMINSTER FULLER",
>! "Things are more like they are now than they ever were before. DWIGHT D EISENHOWER",
>! "You smash it - and Ill build around it. JOHN LENNON",
>! "College isnt the place to go for ideas. HELLEN KELLER",
>! "Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns and detective stories. ARTHUR C CLARKE",
>! "America, how can a write a holy litany in your silly mood? ALLEN GINSBERG",
>! "It is necessary for me to establish a winner image. Therefore, I have to beat somebody. RICHARD M NIXON",
>! "Any smoothly functioning technology will have the appearence of magic. ARTHUR C CLARKE",
>! "Justice is incedental to law and order. J EDGAR HOOVER",
>! "Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms. GROUCHO MARX",
>! "The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. ABBIE HOFFMAN",
>! "Stay out of the road, if you want to grow old. PINK FLOYD",
>! "Here I am, fifty-eight, and I still dont know what I want to be when I grow up. PETER DRUCKER",
>! "How can you be two places at once when youre not anywhere at all? FIRESIGN THEATER",
>! "I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability. OSCAR WILDE",
>! "We are what we pretend to be. KURT VONNEGUT, JR",
>! "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. OSCAR WILDE",
>! "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong - but thats the way to bet. DAMON RUNYON",
>! "I could prove God statistically. GEORGE GALLUP",
>! "Real wealth can only increase. R BUCKMINSTER FULLER",
>! "Anyone can hate. it costs to love. JOHN WILLIAMSON",
>! "In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true either is true or becomes true. JOHN LILLY",
>! "Time is an illusion perpetrated by the manufacturers of space. GRAFFITI",
>! "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible. ALBERT EINSTEIN",
>! "Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. TALLULAH BANKHEAD",
>! "A physicist is an atoms way of knowing about atoms. GEORGE WALD",
>! "Dont lose Your head To gain a minute You need your head Your brains are in it. BURMA SHAVE",
>! "It was always thus; and even if 'twere not, 'twould inevitably have been always thus. DEAN LATTIMER",
>! "Burnt Sienna. Thats the best thing that ever happened to Crayolas. KEN WEAVER",
>! "We dont know who discovered water, but we are certain it wasnt a fish. JOHN CULKIN",
>! "Try to be the best of what you are, even if what you are is no good. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "I waited and waited, and when no message came, I knew it must have been from you. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "Please dont lie to me, unless youre absolutely sure Ill never find out the truth. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "Please dont ask me what the score is, Im not even sure what the game is. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "If you cant learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "I dont have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "Maybe Im lucky to be going so slowly, because I may be going in the wrong direction. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "By doing just a little every day, I can gradually let the task completely overwhelm me. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target. ASHLEIGH BRILLIANT",
>! "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. OSCAR WILDE",
>! "The flush toilet is the basis of Western civilization. ALAN COULT",
>! "If the aborigine drafted an IQ test, all of Western civilization would presumably flunk it. STANLEY GARN",
>! "The world looks as if it has been left in the custody of trolls. FATHER ROBERT F CAPON",
>! "Sure there are dishonest men in local government. But there are dishonest men in national government too. RICHARD M NIXON",
>! "We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it. DWIGHT D EISENHOWER",
>! "If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution inevitiable. JOHN F KENNEDY",
>! "'Contrariwise', continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isnt, it aint. Thats logic.' LEWIS CARROLL",
>! "It takes a long time to understand nothing. EDWARD DAHLBERG",
>! "To know the world one must construct it. CESARE PAVESE",
>! "Eeny Meeny, Jelly Beanie, the spirits are about to speak. BULLWINKLE MOOSE",
>! "The mistake you make is in trying to figure it out. TENESSEE WILLIAMS",
>! "An object never serves the same function as its image- or its name. RENE MAGRITTE",
>! "All I kin say is when you finds yo' self wanderin' in a peach orchard, ya dont go lookin' for rutabagas. KINGFISH",
>! "He who wonders discovers that this in itself is wonder. M C ESCHER",
>! "Law of Computability Applied to Social Sciences: If at first you don't suceed, transform your data set.",
>! "When more and more people are thrown out of work, unemployment results. CALVIN COOLIDGE",
>! "The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. PAUL ERLICH",
>! "Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you wont either. JOSEPH FISCHER",
>! "Fourth Law of Thermodymanics: If the probability of success is not almost one, then it is damn near zero. DAVID ELLIS",
>! "Frouds Law: A transistor protected by a fast acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing first.",
>! "The meek shall inherit the earth, but not its mineral rights. J PAUL GETTY",
>! "Give a small boy a hammer and he will find that everything he encounters needs pounding. ABRAHAM KAPLAN",
>! "The fault lies not with our technologies but with our systems. ROGER LEVIAN",
>! "Under any conditions, anywhere, whatever you are doing, there is some ordinance under which you can be booked. ROBERT D SPRECHT",
>! "Thoreau's Law: If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intent of doing you good, you should run for your life.",
>! "Vique's Law: A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.",
>! "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. GERALD WEINBERG",
>! "Zimmerman's Law of Complaints: Nobody notices when things go right.",
>! "Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance. CONFUCIUS",
>! "Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein. BOOK OF PROVERBS",
>! "It usually takes more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu speech. MARK TWAIN",
>! "The unnatural, that too is natural. GOETHE",
>! "I used to be indecisive; now Im not sure. GRAFFITI",
>! "I had a monumental idea this morning, but I didnt like it. SAMUEL GOLDWYN",
>! "He hasn't one redeeming vice. OSCAR WILDE",
>! "I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. GRAFFITI",
>! "'Martyrdom' is the only way a person can become famous without ability. GEORGE BERNARD SHAW",
>! "Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without any proof. ASHLEY MONTAGUE",
>! "Birth, Copulation, and Death. That's all the facts when you come to brass tacks. T. S. ELLIOT",
>! "Make no little plans. They have no Magic to stir Men's blood. D. B. HUDSON",
>! "Bradley's Bromide: If computers get too powerful,we can organize them into a committee... that will do them in.",
>! "Civilization Law #1: Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations one can do without thinking about them.",
>! "Ketterling's Law: Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence.",
>! "Whenever 'A' attempts by law to impose his moral standards upon 'B', 'A' is most likely a scoundrel. H. L. MENCKEN",
>! "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion. GEORGE WASHINGTON",
>! "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty. THOMAS JEFFERSON",
>! "Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations. THOMAS JEFFERSON",
>! "We must all hang together, or we will surely all hang separately. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN",
>! "Where a new invention promises to be useful, it ought to be tried. THOMAS JEFFERSON",
>! "Assuming that either the left wing or the right wing gained control of the country, it would probably fly around in circles. PAT PAULSEN",
>! "An intellectual is someone whose mind watches itself. CAMUS",
>! "Six years for possession of a cigarette?...I got six months for possession of a deadly weapon! S. HARRIS",
>! "The Swartzberg Test: The validity of a science is its ability to predict.",
>! "What do you call a boomerang that doesn't work? A stick! BILL KIRCHENBAUM",
>! "To err is human, to compute divine. Trust your computer but not its programmer. MORRIS KINGSTON",
>! "I've seen many politicians paralyzed in the legs as myself, but I've seen more of them who were paralyzed in the head. GEORGE WALLACE",
>! "You don't have to explain something you never said. CALVIN COOLIDGE",
>! "A little caution outflanks a large cavalry. BISMARCK",
>! "A billion here, a billion there, sooner or later it adds up to real money. EVERETT DIRKSEN",
>! "I like a man who grins when he fights. WINSTON CHURCHILL",
>! "There are a lot of lies going around.... and half of them are true. WINSTON CHURCHILL",
>! "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on... WINSTON CHURCHILL",
>! "Pioneering basically amounts to finding new and more horrible ways to die. JOHN W. CAMPBELL",
>! "That man is richest whose pleasures are cheapest. THOREAU",
>! "Life is not one thing after another.... it's the same damn thing over and over!",
>! "The meek will inherit the Earth..... The rest of us will go to the stars.",
>! "After all is said and done, a lot more has been said than done.",
>! "Beauty is only skin deep, but Ugly goes straight to the bone.",
>! "There is no remedy for sex but more sex.",
>! "Any given program, when running correctly, is obsolete.",
>! "Sex is like snow... You never know how many inches you're going to get or how long it will last.",
>! "What matters is not the length of the wand, but the magic in the stick.",
>! "Love is a matter of chemistry, but Sex is a matter of physics.",
>! "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought. ALBERT SZENT-GYORGI",
>! "Revolution is the opiate of the intellectuals.",
>! "I really hate this damn machine, I wish that they would sell it. It never does just what I want, But only what I tell it.",
>! "Fantasy, abandoned by reason, produces impossible monsters; united with it, she is the mother of the arts and the origin of marvels. GOYA",
>! "Some people like my advice so much that they frame it upon the wall instead of using it. GORDON R. DICKSON",
>! "Civilization is a movement, not a condition; it is a voyage, not a harbor. TOYNBEE",
>! "We have met the enemy and he is us. WALT KELLY",
>! "You know, of course, that the Tasmanians, who never committed adultery, are now extinct. M. SOMERSET MAUGHAM",
>! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it. BERT LANTZ",
>! "The one charm of marriage is that it makes a life of deception a neccessity. OSCAR WILDE",
>! "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. VOLTAIRE",
>! "There are things that are so serious that you can only joke about them. HEISENBERG",
>! "It takes all sorts of in & out-door schooling to get adapted to my kind of fooling. R. FROST",
>! "Confound these ancestors.... They've stolen our best ideas! BEN JONSON",
>! "Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.",
>! "Rotate your tires.",
>! "Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself, And heed well their advice - even though they be turkeys.",
>! "Know what to kiss - and when.",
>! "Remember that two wrongs never make a right, But that three do.",
>! "Wherever possible, put people on 'HOLD'.",
>! }
that's quite a spoiler!
it's in fact a lua script i use in "Sputnik" (my personal pioneer release), the quotes i took from a ancient amiga program named "Quotes"
which does nothing else as to randomly select one of the above quotes, to use it i.e. in the startup-sequence for the workbench.
these are not all of the quotes, the longer ones i didn't used because it should be placed in a single string of one line length.
well of course they can be used in FFED3D as well since we have the quote at start of the game
they will fit well i guess since many are computer related or at least able to put a smile on your face.

> "It takes all sorts of in & out-door schooling to get adapted to my kind of fooling"

NOW THE SERIOUS STUFF

ANDY
yes i guess i downloaded the beta you ment, at least some sub-models (the scalable ones) appeared out of scale which tells me something has changed to them.

GERALDINE
you saved my soul!
of course they aren't "funny", well i call them this but i know in some i put a lot of work and yes my imagination is - let's say legendary.
truely the courier for elite dangerous doesn't looks like a courier to me, the only thing which makes it sister to FE's courier is the name.
but well i see also it's far more modern or recent in design as mine.
"funny little space ships"
i'm well known for my understatement, maybe sometimes it's even annoying.
see i guess the reasons are:
im just a craftsman and son of a craftsman i studied nothing and my educational degree is rather low
i was told when i was a child "you get nowhere because you are a nobody"
never, really never one of my friends in my youth would have seen my in such, everybody thought "he's a idiot"
they thought they know it all while i thought i know nothing (but guess...)

dunno if the "tool" makes a big difference, "if i haven't one i made me one, if i still haven't one i use my fists"
but the size of the team and the affordable money makes a difference for sure.

further i found out we are in europe (certainly we are)
i mean i noticed a young dude from USA on "deviant art", and they (i guess a film studio) offered him a education as animator
just because they noticed he's very good in posing (he created LEGOrobots and presented them)
i guess such only happens in USA, here no one will recognize you if you haven't a name already or the right education.

to all of them who are responsible for this
if you wonder why USA has such brillant designers and engineers, well this is the key to it
take a nobody and make a somebody out of him/her.

i close this reply, more in the next reply

you will have to excuse me that i'm already again running on two tracks simultaneously
means i started to resurect "Sputnik" from it's remnants and i got right now i idea for a proper name of the project "Phoenix"

![]( "")
no not this one!

i've been to al kinds of troubles with my machines
you might know i lost one and a complete HD with all my stuff on it about 3years ago
i have to work with my rotten old machine running a 32bit XP
i completely disassambled the machine last month and reassambled it,
from time to time you have to 😉 (what a bullshit)
set up the XP new and god what a problem - registered it with a hack
and registered it as "POS ready" which allows me to be updated until 2019 (intentionally ment for industrial & business servers)
which means YES
i have acces to the internet, i have no idea how long it will last because i'm a "free rider", means i found a uncrypted wlan i can use.
however, my trustworthy old workinghorse "kentsfield" is like i said trustworthy.
i haven't had a right graphic card since my old one is in machines nirvana,
the one i used for the newer machine won't work (it's a pcie2 while i got only a pcie1 on the kentsfield board).
thus i had to use a my old "ATI" which is really old and i even couldn't play a FFED3D

but lucky me i found a old computer which someone placed at the rear of a discount to be recycled
since that i'm working on my models again, because i can use blender or similar softs, which won't have worked on the "ATI".

the boys (often) and me (not so often) we use to seize the truck which is placed in the rear to keep the waste of the discounter
usally just food, but food is money for us jobless and certainly they noticed it else they would be stupid, but i guess they let us.
now this old machine had a fitting graphic card, nearly as good as my old one a NV7300GT (i owned a 7600) on a "presler" board.
the machine was in a bad condition and i guess it refused to run because the processors ventilator was completely stuck with thick dust
thus it won't have worked and if the ventilation doesn't works the computer won't start.
i removed the dust (mouses) and well who expected this, it runs.
that's why i disassambled it, tried this and that but i the end my old one is better, well a short refere tothe web would have telled me this,
but then i wasn't internet ready yet.

now i have a clean machine, almost new, but rather slow comparted to the state of art.
and well i have now a second machine, the "presler" board is complete and would run (even when the CPU was once overheated i noticed brown
spots on the side where the pins rest, which is a sign for me that it was running to hot once, no wonder when the ventilator was stucked with dust)
i would have a third board a old "MCI" which was one of my first machines, i kept it once i had the idea to make a multimedia centre out of it,
just to listen music on it and things like this, it won't need a screen for this. or perhaps a pure MAME machine to put in a table or arcade hall case.
a fitting beefy joystick with beefy buttons i found in the waste (well i even found a RC helicopter in the waste, absolutely "new" still in it's box
we really live in a world of plenty - for some at least - so much plenty people throw new things away and i told this already if you work in recycling
you are not even allowed to think of taking it for yourself. very intelligent system, there is one who can (re)use it but he 's are not allowed to,
yeah better make trash out of it disassamble it throw 90% away and keep the few material resources instead to keep it all, some gain money with this
and finally that's the reason why you are not allowed to touch it, because of stinking money. it's a comlete wrong understanding of "recycling"
and this won't help us to made it to the future, believe me we have to change minds, money we can't eat! money is good for nothing and playing
monopoly is killing the future of the whole human race, but well "as long as i have my profit"..... - idiots real idiots, blind and selfish idiots).
i still kept the broken "medion", for a brief moment it was running again, though there is a chance to fix it, it's still some "life" in it.
and since a year i hold a "rampageIII" with a fitting processor, but i fear none of my old (or even not as old) power supplies won't work for it,
i have to take a search in web now that i have connectivity.
with the "rampageIII" ("republic of gamers" i like) i would be state of art again - i guess

on the other hand it has also at least one advantage to work on a old computer,
you have to keep your projects running fine on a low specced machine
what i output will run on most machines no matter if you reside in the heart of africa and own only a rotten old computer.
i never liked that they made out of pioneer a game which runs only on recent hardware,
not even industry is that stupid to support only the latest crap, they like to sell
and open-source shouldn't be at all fixed on recent hardware, because who uses open-source?
ppl with a small wallet, it costs nothing.

thanks here even to "daniel" which i lost contact to (not "our" dan), he contacted me when i was argu hard with pioneer devs
and i never forget this "you are absolutely right in every point"
he's not a nobody, he said he worked in professional game design and liked to start a commercial fork of pioneer with little me.
i feared this much and that's why i started "sputnik", just to see where i get with it.
but then my machine died and everything was flushed down the drain.
because of that i lost interest, just to think of pioneer or FFED3D made me headakes and also i started to check my psychic condition
of which i can say now it never was better, proofed and labeled.

after this quite long pause, i feel alright and well to pick up the remnants of my old projects, even when certain things still will produce nausea,
looking at pioneer will remind me of all the things i argued about, it still gives me problems, thinking of "why have they done this?".
e.g. i commented "hey the terrain looks flat and there is to much ambient light" i wasn't understood
now i looked at the shader scripts and oh what a surprise (or even not)
"add starcolor to objects emissive color" (comment "it's a bit odd")
i changed it to "add starcolor to objects diffuse color" and no surprise the flat shading is gone - bye bye (comment "if it's odd then why do it this way").
and if you remember this was always the case, something odd was made and it was to solve witha little of proper thought.
pointing on such odd changes made me a enemy of robert and continuing he never changed on what i pointed.
which made me believe of "safety bolts" in the program, because it was often this way and daniel even saw this as a option for the "errors" in the game.
someone else will need a very long time to find and remove the "safety bolts", you as head-developer know exactly where they are and can remove them in given time.
imho that's not the way to lead a open-source project, that looks to me like a "hostile takeover" from Tom Morton's project.

ONE rebel-pilot is still alive and with the help of the force he will bring balance to the universe.

who will read all this tard gernot?

stop writing - read the previous posts you son of a scabby bitch...

Great post Gernot! B)
Thats great you built another PC to get online again with. Yes the Unofficial SP4 XP update is very handy is it not? 😉
Right now, I am rebuilding my retro PC (a dual boot with Win 98 & XP) with bits scavenged from here and there. Having a modern all singing, all dancing rig is great, if you can afford it, but for many (myself included) we do what we can with what we have.
As for your work in Pioneer & FFE3D Gernot, it might well have given you head aches as what you created wasn't easy to do but it still stands as a testament to your creativity and that will always be so.
Fly Gernot Spaceways, always get you there on time....

🙂

GERALDINE
yes i am a artist, i know this by the fact how a artist looked at me when he saw me drawing.
he's got a good reputation as artist in carving wooden statues and leads now the arts studio of the "psychiatrische klinik wil" in switzerland.
part of this institute is in wattwil where i live and where i stayed for "cure" for one year.
like i said when i was drawing he was amazed by it, my imagnation and how i draw, complete different to him.
if he works out a person or face, he scribbles and overscribbles, that's typical for a carver i guess.
but i start with a single line place the next line and with a few lines the drawing is finished, no scribbling, no erasing, mostly all of one continuing line.
ok i always liked t reach this thus i reached this.
drawing mostly curves has also amazed our "arts therapist", she liked to get that on linoleum like i do - but never finished the attempt.
we're to different, she works with the help of chaos and let things happen
i thought i let the chaos rule, but in fact it's vice versa,
if she gave us a task i already had a imagination of it, it seems i can't work without to have already a idea of what it will be in the end.
it's surprisingly hard for me to let the chaos rule.
she is orderly and can let the chaos rule in her paintings
i'm disorderly and can't let the chaos rule in my paintings.

nonetheless, my main problem the so called "minority complex" or inferiority isn't "cured" no matter how artists look at me,
nomatter how many compliments i get, that was also a roblem in my childhood, even my friends thought sometimes i'm just fooling them
and that i just like to hear the compliments over and over again - but that's not the case.
this seems to be bound to something deep inside of me maybe even the part of my character i can't change.
it's evil and i have such little selfrespect that even my paintings and drawings i made i this year i handle like rubbish,
they just rest in a corner, get dirty and stay in the risc of being destroyed, it's well crafted stuff but it's made by me though it has no real "worth"
unless i would gift it to someone, yes i'm a strange character i know.

**long text simple meaning - thanks geraldine!**

thanks again, you know you play yourself a important role on what you pointed on, steve also, all of us
steve keeps up his site since many years and it will have attracted countless players to this old game
together with all the rest of FFE related sites which he most are closed now.
the whole community on Frontier.forums, all of us we played a role in this, that's what i believe
there is no more or less important, even one who contributed nothing except perhaps some jokes or stupid questions plays a role.
all this keeps a idea alive and not one or two persons, we encouraged us that we believe in the right thing, that we play the right game.

of course yes andy's great and without his restart i wouldn't have restarted, FFED3D comes to something really good now i believe.
a lot of whishes we had he already fixed for FFE3D, 30 years old or not the engine is good if you like a open ended single player space game.
certainly not as flexible as pioneer, but reliable and it's still "the mother of all space sim games".
FFE has what many haven't, spirit, if you like such games it can still fascinate you even when you play the original in DOSBox.

hmmm... i have a question to FFE maybe you, yes you know this.
is it a fact that i can't use in the original FFE the "roll" commands?
even it looks like the manual control has been added later by john jordan,
because it refuses to work in the original game
but i'm not sure if it had to be this way and can't remember if this was really the case.
of course in FFED3D and all other derivates of JJFFE it works.

**"QWERTY"** i mean **ANDY**
**A MORE IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW**

besides not working issues, yes i even can't make screenshots, i gave that up and made mine using "faststone capture" that's where the watermark comes from.
(besides if you like "FSCapture" and doesn't use it because it's now payed software, i still hold a free to use version of it, ask me if interested
i hold several old softs which i even used on my win7x64, when it runs fine why take another? i know (see quotes) "every running program is obsolate"
but you know "new doesn't equals to better")
the key "asterisk" in games often doesn't works for a swiss-german keyboard layout, thus i gave a damn about it.
some keys that shouldn't be used to be international compatible
asterisk, (asterix, where is his buddy?) either on the numpad or shift + 3 but this varies
brackets [ ] and { } - very important these are displaced because of "è/ü" "à/ä" and only to reach with "ALT GR" + "ü"/ "!" or + "ä"/"$"
- and +, the badest idea of all shift + 1 won't work as + (diff keycode) and numpad + doesn't equals keyboard + in the key code
while numpad + / - is fine - if you got a numpad, probably on a notebook you haven't a numpad.
numpad * should also work, but "should", i don't know why it fails for some games, it must be bound to the interpreter (selected codepage)

all latin letters are fine and should be used even if that complicates things sometimes
in general , ; . : - _ ? ' `` = + * # @ % & [ ] { } are not good they change by keyboard language and the even have sometimes a different keycode
free for most games would be PgUp/PgDwn, Home/End, they are good to use and i often use them if i can map the keys to my choice
also the never change no matter what keyboardlayout or if it's a notepads layout they are always present.
but best are the latin letters, then i get no problems even on my moms MacBook
and "Solomon" from Liberia shouldn't have problems neither.
as long as you don't have to use a complicated key combination to reach a symbol which in the end doesn't works
and it's apart from that, even if it works, very bad to use while playing.

i see the rest of the talk is about missions,
not that i wouldn't like them
but i have no time left for playing (that's a lie)
mostly i'm busy with my models, recently not FFED3D, but like you said andy, by choice.

**STEVE**
maybe i can repeat here that i still can't reproduce your error for the station model steve
a possibilty would be if i could examine your installation, i'm pretty sure something is messed up
what i use is in general* a plain FFED3D, means the basic installation had only the needed stuff in it
no additional textures no additional models
based on this i made my mods and one by one i added the new stuff
later i moved some mods to the models folder, but later.

in general*
i have i slight idea what the reason could be, but only a slight idea
i can imagine that first some models can interfere with others, this i know, models in FFE are build of many sub-models
especially larger objects like stations and cities.
some submodels we don't use and use only the slot for the final model.
if
sometimes this had been already mixed up by our russian ancestors
of course you can i.e. place a station in the slot for the sub-model of the station it will appear in FFED3D the same.
now "gernötli" comes along using "mesh view" and guesses "hey that's wrong this model belongs to a different slot".
what i did once to be sure of surprises and this still stays in my installation is the use of dummy models
the russians also used them, empty models or just a single triangle to avoid that a certain model is displayedor loaded
of course we can now thanks to andy disable many of them in a far more elegant way.
but still some models shouldn't be handled and it's best to place simply a dummy model in the respective folder.
thus this model or submodel will never appear.
(i removed once the rings for the gas giants and wondered when i digged out FFED3D where the rings went to
well they went to hell (disabled by a dummy model, the reason why i did this once i forgot like the fact that i did it once)
place a dummy model in the slot (folder) for a planet and be surprised of the effect! (usually they aren't present, but if you know the models # you will know it's folder)
you get a planet and a displaced atmosphere, very strange.

however if you like that i should fix this issue and even that i can tell exactly what produces it i had to snoop through your installation
which means it would be good if you could pack your whole FFED3D in a zip and i could download it somewhere.

else
as a option
setup a new installation, use only the latest crap and a very basic installation, no models installed really no models not a single one.
make mods of the models, groups i.e. original FFED3D install, gernots ships, gernots buildings.
the enable one after the other or disable and sooner or later you wil know which group of models produces the error.
if you got this information you can furthr split this group to evaluate which model it is exactly.
you wrote already which ones you suggest
to be honest still i have to check that, because well in my installation the error doesn't appears.
though i guess this won't help me much if i have noting to compare.

> The given device operates until the smoke is released from it, at which point the device ceases to operate. Ergo, the smoke is an essential part of the device's operation, through undetermined means.