To all SSC Station occupants
Thank you for the donations over the past year (2024), it is much appreciated. I am still trying to figure out how to migrate the forums to another community software (probably phpbb) but in the meantime I have updated the forum software to the latest version. SSC has been around a while so their is some very long time members here still using the site, thanks for making SSC home and sorry I haven't been as vocal as I should be in the forums I will try to improve my posting frequency.
Thank you again to all of the members that do take the time to donate a little, it helps keep this station functioning on the outer reaches of space.
-D1-
that's not bad, i uplopaded a empty zip 😆
ACME_bolts_and_nuts_alpha23_2.zip
but anyway i enhanced the textures a little and it looks even better now.
i added some transperency to the window props, that's a good method to let them look sunken in a bit, additionally to a slight shade.
even the walls and chimneys have a fade to dark to let it look less plain and add more depth.
[attachment=1290:Bildschirmfoto 2012-06-25 um 14.44.jpg]
i know, i know, still a very basic model and "any cad" could do it better and in less time, but that's not the "goal", when you script a model.
it's the challange i like, find a way to build something that equals to your imagination, find a way to texture it with simple projections.
besides, look how the "window props" sink in visually, you can't do that with one material and one texture on one plane, no.
the wall wouldn't be matte or the windows aren't glossy, neither you can let them "sink in" (except you model it), but if you do it this way they look fine.
it needs a second layer for the windows or doors to achieve that, further you have to add some slight transparency to the border of the props, that's what let's them "sink in".
i adapted this from "SC3K" and how the props are made there, they look very nice in a close up when you build, unfortunately for the game all get's rendered new and with such a low resolution that not much is left of that effect. but we can have it.
you could add some stucco to to a building in this manner and it will look much better then just a single texture, much more realistic shaded.
the difference is foremost because you can have a different material for the props if they are layed over and give them a own diffuse color or specularity.
it's n ot that this could be only scripted, but i guess if i look at most other buildings anywhere they have windows "plastered" with one texture on the wall.
seems like you have first to script one to find better ways. (roll back the shit, like i state below)
[/hr]
apropos texture projections.
i snooped once a little into the model cache and noticed that the scripted models are extremely blown up, yes of course all LOD's geometry is stored seperately, offense. but what i'm worrying a little about is that i expect the texture will be per face for the cached models, of which i know it's much more consuming power rather a projection (check NVIDIA's history page). it's not that it wouln't have been technically possible to have perface textures back in the early 90's, no the machines was simply to slow to manage a game with perface textured models, so there IS a difference between. besides i feel the cache makes the scripted models "unwanted", i mean they have no longer any advantage or not much.
i feel already with the caching it would be better to convert the scripted models to .obj, they run actually better, but it wasn't always like this.
so you can go on "tweak" the handling of the models until scripted models are useless and then tell us it's not good (that's what i fear).
only because some think it's not "state of the art", no it's certainly not state of the art, it's progressive art 
if you really like to get something new you can't build on existing, it will lead nowhere, you never found something new then, nothing.
only when you roll back the shit and start from 0 it's possible to do it better any else is "flickwerk" (patchwork).
i loved it from the first bite and i'm still grateful for the scripted models, yeah i do really love that shit.
i know some devs would like to see DX meshes, not so i, i love this method of scripting models and instead just to take something existing of which i think it's a compromise, we should go in a own direction.
also i "fear" that the cached animations are now "stepping" from frame to frame, likewise a "odd" DX model does with it's matrix animation.
it's not fluid, not really animated, it's a stepping from frame to frame and a altering of the matrix.
i know visually there is no big difference as long as the frames per second are high enough.
a little more history, to me it was funny to see how modelers worked out the animations for FFED3D, they expected a common handling of the DX model.
but FFE handles animations exactly like pioneer has handled scripted models, dynamic not stepped, you don't need any frames for a animation in FE2/FFE only a start and a end (for the "hard coded" models the same shit like we use, translate (often single vectors) from - to and rotate with radians), the rest get's managed by the game. so any working on frames and framerate is useless for FFED3D, except you need to change the direction of a animation (speed you can't change no matter what you do it didn't get's regarded, or not as expected, it will change the speed if you force it with longer or shorter steps/frames, but i feel this a a "violation" of FE2's animations, or you can hack the model and reach then something special, but not everyone is willing to do so, i mean if you do such, hacking a DX model, ok then you can start even to script them. and even more, if you go on and hack the "hard coded" models to reach a special animation... start scripting then).
personally i love this "back to the roots", we should really take the chance to make something "new" out of it, instead copying DX methods.
imho, DX meshes are NOT the non plus ultra, they are only most common and due to MS monopolism state of the art, that's all.
there are some "leaks" or hurdles for scripted animations, so it's nearly impossible to make correctional posings, means a can't simply correct a slightly misfitting joined animated part with a changing of it's matrix, to make it fit again with the other animated parts, that's not possible or would cost a i don't know what calculation for it. but that's anyways "cheating" in my eyes.
i mean if you think of connecting rods you can't influence that, it works - the steam engine is able to rotate the wheel, or it didn't works and it's blocked, there is no "correctional data".
and likewise it's possible for real machines to transform a translation to a rotation or whatever movement, the same must be possible for a model, without correctional data. it's only a question of investigation and a little maths.
this is modeling to me (even when i'm neither a perfectionist) like it works in reality it has to work in the model, virtual models or real ones.
of course i'm a lazy modeler and cheated often in my scripted models, but it's also a question of experience, actually i learned a lot and would do a lot of things different as a year ago.
one of my biggest problems was always how can i synchronize a rotation and a translation (e.g. a rotating landing gear to a translating piston), "parenting" isn't possible like you do in a cad, or different to do. but after the last (the "R41") i know now how to achieve that and once you found out, it didn't seems so hard to do.
Nice looking building. The ladybird issue was only happening because I was foolish enough to try to use a previously saved game. If I left the system it would probably go away. However I want to report that starting a new game with the sport stations installed, and flying from one of my Philbywhizz based pads to another still caused the docking clearance expired problem. After a rough landing on the pad I can request clearance and the ship will rotate into position and the station screen will display, but the docking clearance expired message stays on the scanner.
interesting fact, i will check that.
hmm, docking timout wrong or not set?
usually i add the same shit to all stations "DOCKING_TIMEOUT_SECONDS = 300", because in the beginning it was only in "spacestations.lua" present, when you removed them i.e. to have only your own models in the game it didn't worked, so i guess all should have this in front of the script to grant it will work.
you said it's philly's model (respectively your modification) has this problem, but it vanishes with removing of my stations, double hmm...
do i have your "pad station" version somewhere?
but i will check it first with what i have present let's see.
I'm finding I have the same problem whether I have your sport stations installed or not. The cockpit has no effect on it either. I wonder if it's caused by moving spacestation.lua from the models folder to the stations folder. I put my version there and changed the texture calls. It seems to work, but is there something else that you changed in there that I missed? Here's the file in its current wip form.
[attachment=1291:spacestations.7z]
It's modified to use your adverts, and needs the textures from spacestations 15.
http://www.spacesimcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2936&start=520
The pads are posted here. http://www.spacesimcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2936&start=490
edit: I see it's been downloaded three times as of now. Assuming Gernot only did it once, please let us know if you've seen any problems or not.
😉 like i thought
it misses
in front of the script, add this to the first line and "stay clear" or "steer clear" or "stare clear" (whatever) (if you like to have a docking timeout of 5mins)
without, the docking timout is 0 seconds and as soon as you request clearance it's run out of time.
strange, i downloaded the whole movie from youtube, but when i upload the excerpt it's "closed worldwide", so it's now on photobucket. attempt to fool with quotes arond title failed, i really wonder how this person could get the video published, bribing someone?
now to the uncovered lanner, what a **** has happened there? (my shit)
if rand_1000 < 143 then -- plain color variable
set_material('lanner', get_arg_material(0))
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c0', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
call_model('squadsign', v(7.57,1.2,-27.2), v(1,0,-.475), v(-1,.99,.401), 2)
set_material('text1', 1,1,1,.7,.3,.3,.3,10)
set_material('text2', 0,0,0,.7,.3,.3,.3,10)
elseif rand_1000 < 286 then -- plain
set_material('lanner', .65,.7,.8,1,.7,.8,1,30)
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c0', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
call_model('squadsign', v(7.57,1.2,-27.2), v(1,0,-.475), v(-1,.99,.401), 2)
set_material('text1', 0,0,0,.7,.3,.3,.3,10)
set_material('text2', 0,0,0,.7,.3,.3,.3,10)
elseif rand_1000 > 428 then
selector1()
if select1 < 21 then -- red
set_material('lanner', .65,.7,.8,1,.7,.8,1,30)
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c1', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
elseif select1 < 41 then -- yellow
set_material('lanner', .65,.7,.8,1,.7,.8,1,30)
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c2', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
elseif select1 < 61 then -- blue
set_material('lanner', .65,.7,.8,1,.7,.8,1,30)
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c3', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
elseif select1 < 81 then -- green
set_material('lanner', .65,.7,.8,1,.7,.8,1,30)
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c4', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
elseif select1 > 80 then -- crimson
set_material('lanner', .65,.7,.8,1,.7,.8,1,30)
use_material('lanner')
call_model('lub_c5', v(0,0,0), v(1,0,0), v(0,1,0),1)
end
set_material('text1', 1,1,1,.7,.3,.3,.3,10)
set_material('text2', 0,0,0,.7,.3,.3,.3,10)
end
😆 what is between 286 and 428?
nothing!
Now I understand. The docking timeout has to be at the top of the file, and I broke it by putting the big TV above it. Strangely, Philbywhizz's ground stations never had that line and it didn't cause a problem. Pioneer must have set the value from spacestations.lua. Thank you! I'll get an updated file posted. 😀
true, yeah as long as spacestations lua is in "models" dir. it gets handled prior to the others so the timout is set for all following.
but if they "standalone", they need it.
anyway, it didn't harms when you add it and you have the opportunity to set a different timeout, where i see no reason for.
[/hr]
added fix for the "Caiman", was broken due to vanished "deg2rad" function.
it's in,
mods_P66ships_vol2_alpha23_2.zip
fixed missing lanner hull
added some custom systems as a "mods archive" check Page1 for how to use them.
I put a multi_advert on the back of the nice_spacestation. I runs for a while then the game crashes with this message.
[attachment=1298:advert_error.jpg]
The length of time before the crash depends on the string I use in the tonumber. 'rear' and 'back' crash it fairly quickly but 'splash', which I use where station_splash used to be lasts much longer. Sitting inside the bay looking at 'splash' seems to last infinitely. I'm not positive about that because I haven't looked at it for an infinite amount of time. 😉 I don't see where the bug is. Here's my spacestations.lua if you want to look at it. The line number of the ad is 1689.
[attachment=1299:spacestations_with_ads.zip]
By the way, who is that dancing with Spidey in spiderwood? That's cool!
yeah, the animation is cool, i don't know who, some marvel heros for sure.
i only entered to google "animated gif", and this appeared somewhere, it had fit my idea of a little "movie".
the gif has originally 90pics, i stripped it down to 45, but it still looks fluid.
ok, i thought so, it misses the zbias setting, usually 1 if you poster it on a geometry with the default zbias of 0.
this avoids the flickering you would get else ("z fighting" planes).
i added this to get around the preset zbias of 5 i used before, to make sure the ads work even when a underlayed geometry has maybe already a higher value as 1 or 2.
i should add this even to the decals (means make a function of them to).
proper called it would be
(me and my funny ideas, tonumber - ts)
if it's on a geometry with zbias 0 (not needed to set nowhere, all geometry has zbias 0, until you declare a higher one.
but needs to be terminated if you once set a higher
usually, in front of a overlayed geometry
zbias(integer,v_pos,v_normal)
as example,
zbias(1,v(0,0,0),v(0,1,0)) if the plane is positioned v(0,0,0) and the surface "looks" upwards v(0,1,0) and if it's the first overlayer.
here follows the overlayed geometry
to terminate it use
zbias(0)
then rest of the geometry
Thanks. That shows how much difference 'one' can make.
erm, I tried the p66 vol 1 ships. whacked them in the mod folder but I get this error on startup...
Error: [string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:28: call_model() to undefined model 'pilot_cseat_lit'. Referenced model must be registered before calling model
stack traceback:
[C]: in ?
[C]: in function 'call_model'
[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:28: in function <[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:7>
[C]: in function 'define_model'
[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:1: in main chunk
[C]: in function 'load_lua'
[string "pimod
what do i need to do to fix this? it's not just this pack either, it fails on a couple that i have tried.
Have you installed potsmoke's sub_models_alpha23_6.zip first? That contains the needed sub models. I see that it's not available to download from page 1, probably because of the forum changeover. I can post my copy here if necessary.
I think we need a list of dependencies for each mod.
Have you installed potsmoke's sub_models_alpha23_6.zip first? That contains the needed sub models. I see that it's not available to download from page 1, probably because of the forum changeover. I can post my copy here if necessary.
ah no, i did not. if you could post it here that would be great... thanks again marcel.
No problem. Let's see if I can get this new forum stuff to work...
[attachment=1319:sub_models_alpha23_6.zip]
By George, I think I've got it! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
hmm, the game now starts but it crashes when clicking on view ship in the shipyard for the gelios
WARNING: texture './models/ships/lanner_ub/redli.png' is not power-of-two and may not display correctly
GL_INVALID_VALUE
WARNING: texture './models/ships/caribou/caribou_leg.png' is not power-of-two and may not display correctly
GL_INVALID_VALUE
Error: [string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:492: attempt to call global 'rand_reg' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'rand_reg'
[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:492: in function <[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:361>
and this when I view the shift
libpng warning: Interlace handling should be turned on when using png_read_image
WARNING: texture './models/ships/lanner_ub/redli.png' is not power-of-two and may not display correctly
GL_INVALID_VALUE
Error: [string "models/ships/shift/shift.lua"]:14: attempt to call global 'missile' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'missile'
[string "models/ships/shift/shift.lua"]:14: in function <[string "models/ships/shift/shift.lua"]:9>
Hi Vuzz, your average english is far better then my best french <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
I now have the following in my mods folder...
ACME_bolts_and_nuts_alpha23_2.zip
mods_buildings_kcity.zip
mods_buildings_p66_alpha23.zip
mods_buildings_vlastan.zip
mods_groundstations_p66_alpha23_5.zip
mods_groundstation_default_2.zip
mods_P66ships_vol1_alpha23.zip
mods_P66ships_vol2_alpha23_2.zip
mods_spacestations_default_3.zip
mods_systems_archive_6files.zip
mods_vintage_ships_alpha23.zip
Pioneer Icons & Ads.zip
redsol.zip
ships_crap_alpha23_2.zip
ships_FE2_vol1_alpha23.zip
ships_FE2_vol2_alpha23_2.zip
ships_FFED3D_alpha23.zip
ships_s2odan_alpha23.zip
ships_viper-x_alpha23.zip
spacestations16a_alpha23.zip
sub_models_alpha23_6.zip
SW-XWA_mod.zip
and i still get the following when clicking on the gelios
Error: [string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:492: attempt to call global 'rand_reg' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'rand_reg'
[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:492: in function <[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:361>
however the yt1300 millenium falcon works fine...
That's a puzzler. I have everything except redsol and systems_archive_6files installed and I can view those ships in the shipyard. One difference is that I installed everything in their usual folders instead of using the mods folder. Maybe trying that will make a difference.
Another thought - quote from page 1
I've got my own spacestations.lua installed. The one I'm working on. Actually there's two of them, one with and one without potsmoke's ads in two separate installations. If you use the one with the ads, it goes in the stations folder and you must disable or delete the one in the models folder. However I can't see how that would affect the ships. Good luck!
ok, so i knocked up a test install. so for all the ship .zips I placed all the ship lua's in the ship folder, and all the model folders into the model folder and placed all the sub models in the sub model folder.
I still get varying errors
attempt to call global 'rand_reg' (a nil value) and attempt to call global 'missile' (a nil value) on differing ships.
something is definitely missing or broken. problem is i have no idea what?
hmm, just done another fresh copy and started copying in the buildings, tried to run pioneer and got
Error: [string "./sub_models/decals/decal.lua"]:25: attempt to call global 'rand_reg' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'rand_reg'
[string "./sub_models/decals/decal.lua"]:25: in function <[string "./sub_models/decals/decal.lua"]:23>
so as far as i can gather it keeps calling rand_reg() which is a random number which decides on what colour something is I think?? so I must be missing something that has this function in it.....
I'm testing my Google Docs to share my files.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8NyRVKtvTCFS1QxTklFeEFlYzg/edit?pli=1
Here you will find the typhoon mod for alpha-24 or the latest nightly builds of Pioneer binary downloaded from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pioneerspacesim/files/nightly/
Contains all the necessary dependencies.
No need to replace anything, just put typhoon_pioneer_a24.zip without decompressing (Pioneer will handle that) in the MOD folder.
View https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/wiki/Modding for details.
Gernot lives! <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
I'm testing my Google Docs to share my files.
I downloaded and dropped the file into my alpha 23 mod folder, works like a charm!
Everything is impossible.
Let's take part by part, said Jack. <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//icon_e_smile.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Error: [string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:492: attempt to call global 'rand_reg' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'rand_reg'
[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:492: in function <[string "models/ships/gelios/gelios.lua"]:361>
ok, so i went into the gelios.lua and did some fiddling. I commented out the offending rand_reg()
--rand_reg()
--if rand_100 < 34 then
-- set_material('body', .6,.8,.6,1,1,.9,.85,20)
--elseif rand_100 < 67 then
-- set_material('body', .8,.7,.6,1,1,.9,.85,20)
--else
-- set_material('body', .7,.7,.6,1,1,.9,.85,20)
--end
then i copied the file set up from walterar's .zip file for the typhoon and copied the submodels folder and the missile.lua
i now have both the shift and gelios working from the mods folder, time to go and do the rest...
Here are the modifications that prevent the execution of the gernot models.
https://github.com/pioneerspacesim/pioneer/pull/1317
The new feature set greatly simplifies things selector.lua
yeah I do not understand any of that <img src="' http://spacesimcentral.com/forum/public/style_emoticons//fie.gi f"' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':fie:' />
never mind, I'll continue going through and hacking files so I can run them as mods...
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