Some examples of the kind of stuff that really gets me excited (for big space battles):

Hi Sirrealist

Never been a fan of the xgame too much of a business simulation for my liking,and I always

thought any RTS space game had better combat,Has nice graphic.

the only other big ship combat game that spring to mind apart from Eve is star shatter

Although there is Starpoint Gemimi which might have some.

Hoping to get a Starpoint Gemini video any day now. So we'll be able to see what to expect from the game from all the questions the staff answered it is going to be a great game. But we'll see if it will satisfy your large ship battling needs 🙂

The space sim need has taken hold and I went on a frenzy. Last night i dug up my copes of Freespace I&II, Homeworld I&II, and I got a copy of Freelancer from a friend. After playing a few hours of Mass Effect 2, I fired up Freelancer to see what it was like. So far its pretty simplistic (I only played the first mission)... I assume ship management and combat get more complex (like, I was able to just hold down the fire button... no energy management, overheating or anything like that). Taking out fighters was also very simple, but again, it was the first mission.

There are a bunch of mods for Freespace; should I just play the main game before installing any of them? Do any add to the single player game in a way that would be good to have from the start?

http://www.moddb.com/games/freelancer

Thanks for the heads up on Starshatter and Starpoint Pinback, I'll check them out!

You said Freelancer in one spot and Freespace in another... assuming that you are talking about Freelancer in both cases, then you will probably enjoy playing the plain "vanilla" version of the game before modding it. There are a lot of people who think that there has not been a better space game since Freelancer (2003). In any case, Freelancer sets the bar pretty high on what is good about space gaming.

And, yes, it gets more difficult. There is plenty of strategy required in trading, finding the right weapons for the increasingly difficult enemies, and in combat! Sometimes just in survival. 🙂

There are some terrific mods for Freelancer, but most (all?) of them are more difficult than the vanilla game... some so difficult that many people cannot get through those first few missions without advanced flight "training". Also, all of the mods have bugs so it is better to play vanilla Freelancer so that you will know what is supposed to work and what is not.

Tip: Sliding

I won't spoil the fun... but I will point out that many newbies misunderstand the "z" key (engine kill). Engine Kill allows you to slide in space so that you can fire in any direction (including backwards). Use the thruster (tab) to accelerate and change direction while sliding. Sliding is vital on the more difficult missions, and it makes your ship handle more like a real space ship.

Tip: Cockpit and Turret Views

Also, you can press Ctrl-v to change the default "chase plane" view to "cockpit view". The default view clutters up the screen without serving any purpose other than a little eye-candy. You can turn it back on (or use "h" for turret view) if you want to see your ship at any time. Turret view allows you to look around while cruising on autopilot (Go to...), and it works whether or not your ship has a turret.

Good Patches (Optional)

There are a couple of patches that do not change the behavior of the game, but they remove some minor bugs. None of these fixes are required, but they do make the game a little more polished:

[*:3fi5ja97]

Microsoft Official 1.1 Update

[*:3fi5ja97]Jason's Freelancer Patch 1.00 combines all fixes to the game that have been developed by other major modders (and adds a few of his own).

[*:3fi5ja97]JFLP.DLL 1.11 This is the core of Jason's Freelancer Patch, just replace the original dll with this. The 1.11 version of jflp gives widescreen support to Freelancer. If you have any trouble getting it to work, just ask. Tip: Set all fovx values to "0" in cameras.ini for jflp's widescreen support. Use original values without jflp.

[*:3fi5ja97]Freelancer v1.0 [ENGLISH] No-CD-Fixed EXE (GameCopyWorld)

Thanks for the heads up Bullwinkle! Yeah sorry, I meant Freelancer in paragraph 2. I'll take your suggestion and stick with the vanilla game for now. I assume that I should install all the patches, in the order you listed them? If I've got a resolution of 1680x1050 (16:10), i set fovx to 0 and I'm all set?

I'll try to find Jason's page for the patches to see if there is more in-depth info.

Is there anything else you guys can suggest to improve graphics? I've got it set to the highest resolution in the game, all options on, and then i have 16x AF and 8x AA set through my vid card. There aren't any texture replacement packs out there, are there?

Also, have any of you guys played Nexus: The Jupiter Incident? If not, I highly recommend that you guys give it a look... I had a blast with it back in the day.

[*:2kx8j9ra] You are welcome, sirrealist!

[*:2kx8j9ra] Yes, install the patches in the order that I listed them. The NoCD thing can be added anytime.

[*:2kx8j9ra] Yes... but the widescreen support is not well documented:

[*:2kx8j9ra] Find Cameras.ini (Program Files\Microsoft Games\Freelancer\Data\Cameras.ini)

[*:2kx8j9ra] There are four lines containing fovx. Change all four. Use a comment (semicolon ; ) to keep the old value in case you want to go back someday.

[*:2kx8j9ra] Jason's page is: http://freelancer.adoxa.cjb.net/ . The reason I did not give you the page the first time is because Jason assumes that everyone is a programmer... his page could be more confusing than helpful. He is an elite programmer in the finest Hackers tradition, but his docs are sparse. Better to ask in the Freelancer section here at SSC, or read the header in his .c and .cpp files.

[*:2kx8j9ra] No, you're set on graphics.

[*:2kx8j9ra] That's all good. (Tip: If you see a mod with an option for "advanced shader", turn off that option -- or, at least, test it carefully on your setup. It is a cool add-on, but it does not really behave well with Freelancer. At best it will cause weird black squares on some objects. At worst, it will make your entire screen black -- or it simply will not run).

[*:2kx8j9ra] Most of the mods have upgraded textures. Some are upgraded so far that they will not run on all equipment. If you can endure the pain, then try Crossfire after you have run through the vanilla game. Be prepared for some effort to get it to run, difficulty in getting tech support, and some bugs (I plan to talk about that in an upcoming review)... but some of the scenery is breathtaking. Plus it has some great Quests which extend the story line.

To be clear, Crossfire would not be my pick for a first mod to try -- that would be Discovery. But Crossfire fits your desire for wildly upgraded textures.

One last tip

When you have finished your "vanilla" installation with the patches, then copy or zip the entire Freelancer folder. If you use mods in the future, you will wind up reinstalling Freelancer many times -- which becomes boring pretty quickly. Freelancer keeps everything in the Freelancer tree (except for saved games). There is nothing in the Registry. Therefore, you can copy, move, rename, and reuse the Freelancer folder as you like. Keeping a backup of a clean "vanilla" installation will save you a ton of frustration when you investigate the mods.

sirrealist, I put expanded answers to some of your questions in the SSCWiki.

I will add more to the wiki over time, but I did a more thorough job of explaining two topics:

FL Widescreen Tutorial

Installing and Backing up Freelancer Tutorial

No such game come to mind ...

It's really hard (imho, impossible) to find a sim that will satisfy the various mood swings of a player. I too suffer from such a condition (which my doctor says is quite normal) and when blasting something feels like second nature (not for me though), there are times that i'm not really into it (see "Analyze this").

One thing i'd like to point out is that one of the larger plots, that has an end that is, i've seen is of the Freelancer. No, i'm not a very big fan of it (not hated it though either) but it's plot kept me going over night. The level of addiction was horrifying.

My point .. "I hope you don't ever find such a game but if you ever do find it, DON'T TELL ME !!!" 😆

hahahahhahaa... well put my friend. Yeah, I think I've decided to just play Freelancer and see how it goes. Quick question: Does freelancer ever have large battles between capital ships where you're a part of it in some capacity? Maybe a member of or commander of a fighter wing struggling to defend your ally, or destroy your enemies? I want to feel that awe and fright of getting that huge capital ship in your gun-sights while enemy fire flies all around you. Anything like that?

I'm also still considering Freespace with the open source mod added in.

Freelancer is plot-centric which means that the objectives are dictated by the course of the plot, which quite sadly is a one way street. You don't get to choose how things will go or where the whole story will lead. But quite soon you'll find yourself struggling to survive .... and believe me, charging on a destroyer, gun' ho style, will put your face (because everyone else will be running towards the nearest jump point 😆 ) in encyclopedia "Britannica", right next to the word "Deranged" 😛 .

Is that challenging enough? ... 😀

Good point, but let me rephrase: does the plot ever bring you to a place where you and your allies (including capital ships) are going up against enemy fighters and capital ships? Are there any big battles, where you feel like part of a larger group, capital ships slugging away at each other? I miss the days in X-Wing where you would warp in with some frigates and squads of fighters to try and take down a star destroyer... that kind of orchestrated attack/defence where you're just a small part of a larger dance. Make sense?

I see. Unfortunately NO. It's not really about winning against all odds. It's about survival and at the last missions it actually states that exact thing at the mission briefings.

No you don't engage in very large scale battles and you don't command other NPCs (Non playable characters) or wingmates. It's play style and strategy is far from what you seek. Sorry ... 😥

YES!!!

While Freelancer does not burden the player with "attack this target" or "follow me", there is plenty of action with wingmen who follow your lead. They automatically follow you around and attack what you attack. In addition to wingmen, you build alliances through the reputation system. If you make friends with powerful allies, then they may come to your aid when you get ambushed.

Wingmen and/or allies will also help you to attack capital ships. Cap ships obviously do not fly as your wingman, but there are missions where you escort cap ships or meet them somewhere for an epic battle. A carrier ship may even jump in at the last second, when you are about to get your butt kicked, and let you land for a hasty retreat!

In some modded missions, there are so many big ships that you have no chance of doing anything more than complete your specific mission and get out of Dodge before their big cannons rip you to shreds.

In that way, Freelancer is reminiscent of X-Wing. Freelancer is easier to fly than X-Wing but the action can be faster-paced, so it is still plenty difficult. Trust me, if you do not find the later missions difficult enough to be a challenge, then just play a mod. Most of them are tough enough to make even experienced pilots re-think their strategy and tactics. Or cry like babies. 😉

Some mods even let you fly a capital ship. Friendly fighters will automatically fly as escorts with you, or you can play in a Multi-Player game as part of a team of real wingmen. Some servers even use Teamspeak so that you can have real voice comms with real wingmen as you fly a mission to go hunt alien fleets (or whatever missions you can think of).

Freelancer is certainly not "plot centric". Freelancer is the pinnacle of the work of the legendary Chris Roberts and Digital Arts (Wing Commander series, Privateer series, Starlancer, Freelancer). As such, it allows for many different types of game play and many different ways to have fun with it.

People have been playing Freelancer for seven years after they all finished the plot! The fun continues well after the story line ends (through mods, multi-player, and just plain exploring and picking fights). In that way, Freelancer is vastly superior to X-Wing. Even the vanilla story line can be re-played in different ways... that alone is fun enough for a couple of passes through the storyline.

Go fly it... I guarantee that you will like it or you get your money back. 😉

Thanks guys!!!

I'm going to be playing this, Freespace 2 with open source and mods, and ill probably try out Starshatter... that looks pretty cool too.

What do you guys think of Starshatter?

Also, i just ordered a joystick (Logitech Extreme 3D Pro)... i know Freelancer has a smooth mouse/KB style; is it better in that way, or with a joystick? I know Freespace and Starshatter are supposed to be better with joystick, but they dont have the mouse-flight that Freelancer does.

Should be a good stick... Logitech is my favorite controller company.

The choice of stick vs. mouse really depends on the game. Sticks work differently than all other controllers, and it really is not easy to substitute one for the other. While a game made for a mouse can be made to use a stick, the opposite is not true. A game made for a joystick cannot easily be converted to use a mouse... not without the help of the original programmers or their code.

So, yeah, you're gonna need a stick for stick games. And Freelancer works so well with a mouse that you won't even want a stick for it. Although people have been able to hack a way for sticks to work with Freelancer, nobody seems to like it that way.

Regardless of who was involved in its design and production, the 'stuff' that defines epic battles like some crusers and battleships and the general mayhem, you only find in the part of the game that revolves around the central plot with the nomads. On the other hand, after all the mystery is solved, the game continues to sustain a large part of its original value through, as the game titles states, freelancing in a open universe. I'm not being absolute here because i don't know what MODs are out there (i've played only one) and what people have accomplished with them but i suspect that "epic" element is not there .... i wouldn't know though. Anyone to enlighten me?

Anyway, i agree that with it's dual state of play (Plot, Freelancing) and with the large fan community, it certainly does provide a lot of ways to have fun with it. 😎

I've got the Logitech Force3DPro myself and it's quite sturdy, accurate, had a lot of fun with it and it's the only way i HAVEN'T played freelancer as i don't stand a chance against people with a simple mouse ... 😆

No idea,never played it.

I will have to get a copy of Nexus The Jupiter Incident,it keeps coming up in different threads.

I've have found getting started with these sort RTS game to be a bit of pain,but if I can

get over that first hurdle I usally quite enjoy them.

I can see why you might say that, micmanos, but it is only part of the story.

Microsoft published Freelancer, and they never released much content for the engine -- just the original 13 missions. The engine itself continues to be so popular simply because nobody else has made a better space sim game engine. Not yet, anyway. I am sure that one will come along, but it has been a surprisingly long seven years since Freelancer.

For more content, mod the game yourself, play a mod made by others, or try a multi-player server. There are plenty of epic battles to be fought! 🙂

I'd go with FreeSpace 2. The Open Source project makes the graphics absolutely beautiful, and there are tons of mods and additional campaigns that prop up the games epicness after all of these years. It's an awesome game in its own right too.

FL is all about the multiplayer

There was a pretty awesome server FREELANCER UNIVERSE 24/7

You might want to try it if its still alive

As for Starshatter, i remember being very excited when i started it but i found myself frustrated at it at some point and dumped it

I think it had something to do with the A.I. but i can't really remember

I think i might dig it out and try again myself

And here's another suggestion - Star Wolves

I found its closest to my alltime favourite - Nexus: The Jupiter incident

Though if you can't tolerate constant CTDs, you might want to play only the last installment