To all SSC Station occupants
Thank you for the donations over the past year (2024), it is much appreciated. I am still trying to figure out how to migrate the forums to another community software (probably phpbb) but in the meantime I have updated the forum software to the latest version. SSC has been around a while so their is some very long time members here still using the site, thanks for making SSC home and sorry I haven't been as vocal as I should be in the forums I will try to improve my posting frequency.
Thank you again to all of the members that do take the time to donate a little, it helps keep this station functioning on the outer reaches of space.
-D1-
Hello, around these parts I'm known as Ironhound. Many of you are aware that I have been testing various space sims that work with a netbook. I plan to create a small list of games, and methods to get them running on your netbook. However, first we need to answer a few fundamental questions.
What is a netbook?
A netbook is nothing more then a compact computer. It's designed for travel and generally comes with a small (10inch) screen and a complete lack of a CD drive. In their current generation, most netbooks come with a rather wimpy processor, and an even worse graphics card. For example, lets take a look at my HP.
HP Mini 110
1gb Ram (2 after self installation.)
1.6Ghz Atom Processor
Intel GMA 950 Integrated Graphics Card.
Windows 7 Starter (simplified version of Windows 7)
How about some history?
Netbooks are an offshoot of the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project; a non-profit effort to put small, cheap, computers into the hands of school children in third world countries. Several large companies have made large donations to the project, and many third-world schools have ordered them -- to the tune of tens of thousands of units per country or more. The goal for OLPC is to make a laptop for $100 that is good enough to run a word processor and a browser so that the kids can connect to classroom software at their school... and they can also learn from Google and Wikipedia (and SSC!).
When computer manufacturers build something, it is to their advantage to build a LOT of them. The more they make, the cheaper they become. So, for the manufacturers to come close to the $100 goal set by OLPC, they have to sell more... more than the mere tens of thousands ordered.
The solution was to upgrade the OLPC by adding more memory, a hard drive, and Windows, in order to make it popular in other markets.
The result has been phenomenal... so many people just want a small machine that runs a browser, and that is exactly what they get with a netbook, for $2-400. With LogMeIn, a netbook is like a remote console for a larger computer. The uses for netbooks have very few limits, if you get creative. With a couple of add-ons, netbooks can be a single device that replaces a GPS unit, a DVD and CD player, and a speakerphone (Skype).
Netbooks rock.
However, netbooks are intentionally low-power devices. The goal is long battery life in a tiny (2 lb / 1 kg) device. Most netbooks use Intel's Atom processor -- an Ultra Low Voltage version of their Core technology. Current generation is single-processor, but Intel plans multi-processor Atoms as well. As you say, most also use Intel's GMA graphics processor, because it is also ultra-low power (and inexpensive). The combination is sufficient to run XP and common office applications (I recommend WinXP and Office 2003 for netbooks). It is definitely NOT a high-power setup... but it is good enough for MANY purposes.
Note that the odd screen (typically 1024 x 600) is just the screen -- the GMA controller works great with higher resolutions on an external monitor.
There are a few netbooks with add-on graphics controllers . Usually they also have upgraded memory, disk, and price tag... in the $800-$1,000 range. At that price point you have to really WANT a tiny device, because it competes with slightly larger laptops with several times the horsepower of a netbook.
Even with a better graphics controller, netbooks still have a low-power CPU, as well as similarly low-power (and, therefore, sluggish) I/O for disk and memory.
In other words, netbooks are limited in their ability to perform well for many games.
But netbooks are SO useful, for so many purposes, that it is only natural to want to find a game or two that will work.
*THANKS BULLWINKLE*
Are there options for improving performance with Netbooks?
Unfortunatly your average individual who just picked up a netbook doesn't really have the knowledge on how to change a processor or sumsuch. However, their are options for improving performance.
+Adding Ram. Most netbooks contain the capacity for at least 2gigs of RAM. Simply, this is your memory, and they come in 'cards' of 512, 1Gig, 2Gig, and so on. Again, Ram is the workhorse of your computer, doing all of the hard labor, pushing and operating. The 'muscles' if you will of your computer. Increased Ram (OF THE PROPER TYPE!) can exponentially increase performance. Video Ram is something else entirely, and will be covered somewhere else. The slot can be found near the battery case on your computer, or near the motherboard. Again, most of this is pretty far above average joe's head, so looking up an actual guide online would be ideal.
+Operating System. Hopefully your netbook came with Windows XP, or Windows 7 Starter. In both cases, performance should be ideal. However, XP may be faster due to less graphical requirements. Having never owned XP I cannot vouch for this.
+Battery Power Setting. This can be found in the lower right corner of the screen, near your clock. A little battery icon. Depending on your OS, right click, or left click it. Once you find the 'Select a Power Plan' option, put it in High Performance. Netbooks have an outstanding battery life, and even on High Performance mine gets a good four to five hours of functionality. You'd be surprised at how much FASTER your system runs on high power.
My buddy just spent $400 on a new graphics card for his desktop, can I?
As far as I know, in most cases, no. Sadly, most netbooks come with integrated graphics cards. This means that you can't change out your graphics card due to the fact that it is built directly into the mother board. Newer video cards provide more Video Ram, and more graphical features. Shaders, pixel enhancers. etc etc etc. Vram for any video card is ESSENTIAL to video game awesomeness. 64MB isn't going to play the latest games. 1GIG is pretty good, and should tide you over for a few more years. In most cases video ram cannot be found on your computer, so you should google your card. (I.e. ATI XXXX Video Ram)
Also of note when trying to play games, most netbooks come with some strange resolutions, and the inability to use resolutions that the computer doesn't have. For instance, the GMA Intel 950 ONLY allows 1024x600(as opposed to the standard 1024x768) and 800x600 This can be a HUGE caveat as most older games don't support these alien resolutions.
Enough talk! Gimme' a list!
Lets take a look at my system again.
HP Mini 110
2Gb Ram
1.6Ghz Atom Processor
Intel GMA 945 Integrated Graphics Card. (64-128VRAM)
Windows 7 Starter
THE LIST
BOLD - Works. Italics - Does not. *I did not even bother with games that had higher system requirements, so please don't ask about X3 TC or Evochron Legends.
+ Escape Velocity Series.
+ Endless Sky
+ Wierd worlds return to Infinite Space
+ FREESPACE 1&2 (Requires Freespace Open to run. Not sure why.)
+ Freelancer (Make sure to turn the settings down, as it crashes when it gets too system intensive.)
+ Oolite (Runs at a slow pace, and selecting a system for jump takes a bit. Don't even bother with Griff's graphical mods.)
+ Privateer Gemini Gold (KEEP THE DEFAULT INSTALL DIRECTORY)
+ The Ur Quan Masters
+ Final Frontier Elite - (Works great, would suggest JLFFE.)
+ DeathWar 3030
+ DeathWar Redux
+ Independence War Series (Just make sure you get a joystick.)
+ Noctis IV CE
+ Star Nomad 1&2
DOSBOX*
Elite
Elite plus
Frontier First Encounters
Megatraveller 1
Megatraveller 2
Plants edge
Project Normad
Protostar
Space Rogue
Starflight
Wing Commander-no sound
Wing Commander 2
Master of Orion 1&2
-Flight Commander (Sluggish, and not optimized for netbooks. Videos don't work.)
-Galactic Civ II (Doesn't support lower resolutions.)
-Starflight 2 (Crashes on start.)
* Dosbox is a small program for windows that allows you to open a DOS environment to run your DOS games on. It can be complicated, and I highly recommend using a fan-made interface, like D-Fend. (Google it.)
This list is in progress, and far from complete, if you have any SPACE SIMS that work great on netbooks, let me know.
I've been using one for about 6 months now,can't offhand remember what the spec are
but it only has 1gb and runs xp.on mine.
Oolite work fine the only slow down is when jumping to a new system and a bit in the menus
the shader ship/station look right.
Privateer Gemini Gold no problems with Privateer,but I not played it much.
Death war 3030 works fine
FFED3D works fine(BUT CAN BE A LITTLE SLOW ON THE PLANETS) not all the models render right.
Starflight and Gratuitous Space Battles don't
Ive not tried it but I think both Hardwar and privateer 2 will work?.
How about GLFFE? Less graphically demanding than FFE3D. Also Gal Civ 1 is still a pretty deep little game, perhaps that would run.
.
Outstanding post, IronHound! Thank you!
I love netbooks... I take mine everywhere and use it as a "remote" for my big laptop and other workstations/servers via LogMeIn. That way I can run almost any application that I want, even though the netbook itself has modest capacity.
Here is a little more history on netbooks... feel free to add any of this to your review, if you like:
Netbooks are an offshoot of the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project; a non-profit effort to put small, cheap, computers into the hands of school children in third world countries. Several large companies have made large donations to the project, and many third-world schools have ordered them -- to the tune of tens of thousands of units per country or more. The goal for OLPC is to make a laptop for $100 that is good enough to run a word processor and a browser so that the kids can connect to classroom software at their school... and they can also learn from Google and Wikipedia (and SSC!).
When computer manufacturers build something, it is to their advantage to build a LOT of them. The more they make, the cheaper they become. So, for the manufacturers to come close to the $100 goal set by OLPC, they have to sell more... more than the mere tens of thousands ordered.
The solution was to upgrade the OLPC by adding more memory, a hard drive, and Windows, in order to make it popular in other markets.
The result has been phenomenal... so many people just want a small machine that runs a browser, and that is exactly what they get with a netbook, for $2-400. With LogMeIn, a netbook is like a remote console for a larger computer. The uses for netbooks have very few limits, if you get creative. With a couple of add-ons, netbooks can be a single device that replaces a GPS unit, a DVD and CD player, and a speakerphone (Skype).
Netbooks rock.
However, netbooks are intentionally low-power devices. The goal is long battery life in a tiny (2 lb / 1 kg) device. Most netbooks use Intel's Atom processor -- an Ultra Low Voltage version of their Core technology. Current generation is single-processor, but Intel plans multi-processor Atoms as well. As you say, most also use Intel's GMA graphics processor, because it is also ultra-low power (and inexpensive). The combination is sufficient to run XP and common office applications (I recommend WinXP and Office 2003 for netbooks). It is definitely NOT a high-power setup... but it is good enough for MANY purposes.
Note that the odd screen (typically 1024 x 600) is just the screen -- the GMA controller works great with higher resolutions on an external monitor.
There are a few netbooks with add-on graphics controllers . Usually they also have upgraded memory, disk, and price tag... in the $800-$1,000 range. At that price point you have to really WANT a tiny device, because it competes with slightly larger laptops with several times the horsepower of a netbook.
Even with a better graphics controller, netbooks still have a low-power CPU, as well as similarly low-power (and, therefore, sluggish) I/O for disk and memory.
In other words, netbooks are limited in their ability to perform well for many games.
But netbooks are SO useful, for so many purposes, that it is only natural to want to find a game or two that will work.
Thank you for getting that ball rolling, IronHound!
Regarding your notes on the games, how about adding your opinion? I would love to hear what you think, or even just give it a grade or score of some kind.
For that matter I would love to hear more from SSC members about their opinions.
Darkone, does your board have the ability for readers to add ratings and comments to a review?
Its my pleasure.
Feel free to add games to the list! I'll ammend the first post as times goes on. I myself wasn't able to get FFED3D to work at a reliable rate, even FFE in a higher resolution ran at extremely limited FPS. Never tried GalCiv 1, and will have to look it up tomarrow. Couldn't get GLFFE To work either, JLFFE worked great, but really slow at higher res.
Added a few more. Keep 'em coming.
Will ammend the first post with the history as well.
Extremely tired, so I'll add my thoughts tomarrow as well. Thanks for helping out! Again, feel free to add any games or thoughts, and I'll add.
Before I crash, I'm going to make a note here about OpenAL and OpenGL. Something most notebooks don't have stock. As well as Direct X. Will need to add some info on that. Sleep now.
Great post IronHound. Going to sticky this for everyone, hopefully this turns into a really good resource for those that game on Netbooks.
Will look into this, most mods for the phpbb forum software has ratings for forum posts but not for like a overall game ranking/comment system but will look into this because it would be something great to have.
I have used a lot of phpbb boards, but yours is the nicest of the bunch. Good colors, good use of white space, and, for some reason, all of the controls seem to work better than average. It's nicely "polished", D1.
You know, I'll bet that a "poll" could do the trick. One person writes the review, others comment and vote. The result is a total "score" that everyone can see. Does that sound do-able?
Feel free to add games to the list! I'll ammend the first post as times goes on. I myself wasn't able to get FFED3D to work at a reliable rate, even FFE in a higher resolution ran at extremely limited FPS. Never tried GalCiv 1, and will have to look it up tomarrow. Couldn't get GLFFE To work either, JLFFE worked great, but really slow at higher res.
Thats a shame, glad you got Frontier to run though 😀 Another oldie, how about the original Wing Commander and another I just remembered, Epic?
You know, I'll bet that a "poll" could do the trick. One person writes the review, others comment and vote. The result is a total "score" that everyone can see. Does that sound do-able?
I don't want to detract from this thread but I will make a review area and people can use that to get feedback on games with comments and polls if they want and that should solve the problem. Because I couldn't find anything that would do what you suggested unless I try to hand code something. And I am not a php coder, I do dabble in the code but from scratch would take a lot of time.
Just got D-Fend Reloaded to work,Wing Commander works but no sound,going to try some
more out.
Ok got the following games working apart from starflight 2 which started then stoped,still
can't get any sound from Wing Commander.
Elite
Elite plus
Frontier First Encounters
Megatraveller 1
Megatraveller 2
Plants edge
Project Normad
Protostar
Space Rogue
Starflight
Wing Commander-no sound
Wing Commander 2
Couple more.
Hardwar works along with Bang gunship Elite.
Thanks for posting the games! I don't have a netbook, but I'm sure these will run nicely on my old computers.
Hi IronHound,
I wonder if "Cosmic Explorer" will run on your netbook. As it does not need a graphics card with 3d support and the minimum screen resolution is 800 x 600 pixels, the chance is great that it works. However I do not have any netbook so I cannot test it. Can you?
I would love to, but my netbook was stolen while I was out on a business trip. (gotta love step-family.)
Sorry! 🙁
Right now I can only guess this is the right section to put info about this game, but Marcus on the Frontier Forum kindly pointed out a new (as yet un-named) game aimed at the IPad, being worked on by James Duncan (of Fable 2 &3 fame). Apparently its going to be a cross between TiE Fighter and the original Elite and is earmarked for release early next year, here is a link http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... -successor
We do have a forum for mobiles games here.
And the games can be found in this thread.
one to keep an eye on and see what they come up with.
When my laptop went wrong last year I was forced to use an old Samsung NC10 netbook to run Oolite.
As previously discussed there was a few slowdowns, and no shaders, but I still ran Griff's shipset fine. There are other shipsets that may be better to run than Griff's, eg Smiv's one.
Other slowdowns happened when there was a lot of objects in a system.
However, I found that I could mitigate a lot of the slowdowns by using a program called Gamebooster. This program turns off unnecessary Windows services and gave me a 40% increase in performance!
They also make some good articles out there that cover the same material (turning off services and registry tweaks) to make Windows run more efficient.
I hardly ever install programs for that sort of thing because you never know when those programs are doing more than what they are supposed to.
What about Tachyon, does that work on a net book?
Haha! I found this after only 2 years! *ahem*
On mine it did. However, some netbooks don't have many USB ports, and playing Tachyon without a joystick would be... tricky. 😛
I recently made a mobile/PC/MAC top-down RPG/RTS tribute to classic spacesims.
Star Nomad is my idea of a lovechild between Escape Velocity and Privateer. Its very light and runs wonderful even on weak hardware (since it was designed around mobile hardware limitations). Its for both mouse and touch input so it will work brilliantly on a windows tablet or touch note/ultra book.
The PC/MAC version can be found here: IndieGameStand
Also on Desura: http://www.desura.com/games/star-nomad-rpg-rts-sandbox
The Android (Free full version) version is here: Google Store
iOS version coming soon!
Edit: 23/07/2014
Just updated Star Nomad, all new character art & extra content.
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