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ObamaCare Unconstitutional


DarkOne
(@sscadmin)
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Topic starter  

Well common sense would tell you that this bill/law was garbage but politics pushed it through anyway even though 60%+ of the populous didn't want it. But there may be some hope on the horizon to give this monstrosity of a bill off the books with this new court ruling:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/ ... healthNews

Quote:

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson ruled that the reform law's so-called individual mandate went too far in requiring that Americans start buying health insurance in 2014 or pay a penalty.

"Because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire act must be declared void," he wrote, "This has been a difficult decision to reach and I am aware that it will have indeterminable implications."

Only catch here is that Obama will take this to the Supreme Court which I hope will also follow the ruling of this judge. I just don't see how a democratic government could even make you get health insurance or risk a fine. There are already so many doctors starting to not take Medicare patients just because doctors loose money to treat them. We are loosing the best doctors to this bill.

I know this year my own insurance premiums went up 40% just because of the passage of this bill. The years previous the premiums went up 8-12%. I sure hope we can remedy this situation soon because if not in 2013-2014 we are going to have some problems.


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DarkOne
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The biggest thing I got upset about last year was the blatant fact that a large amount of the populous didn't want this bill passed and they passed it any way. So much for the elected officials speaking for the people and not for themselves. An easy way to fix this is that any law/program that has a huge economic impact on society should be voted on by the people instead of these pinheads in office because they obviously don't care what the majority of the people want. I am hoping in 2012 the American people flush out all of the remaining politicians that didn't vote on the peoples side.


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Pinback
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I there needs to be a lot more referendums but no government likes doing them as they know they would lose most of them.


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s2odan
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Quote:
The biggest thing I got upset about last year was the blatant fact that a large amount of the populous didn't want this bill passed and they passed it any way. So much for the elected officials speaking for the people and not for themselves.

Sounds like England 😉


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DarkOne
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It truly disturbs me Dan. How we trust these elected officials and then they stab us in the back, sometimes for personal gain. We just need to take power back from them if they don't want to do as they people request. We should be able to vote to impeach our own elected state officials if they are not competent to do the job.

I remember watching TV and was watching Daniel Hannan a British politician. And this guy put up some great points on why to reject ObamaCare and why it wasn't working in England.


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Stardreamer
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Darkone wrote:
Well common sense would tell you that this bill/law was garbage

In what way? Forgive me but my common sense isn't leaping me to the same conclusion. You may have to help me see the way you do.

"...bring down premiums, bring down the deficit, cover the uninsured, strengthen Medicare for seniors, and stop insurance company abuses..."

Seems a fairly laudable goal, that. Save lives.Enusre people aren't refused life-saving care because they don't have the right policy, or because their insurer has flat out denied them coverage? Seems to me like he's trying to FIX what's already broken.

Your only contribution has been to moan about your insurance premiums going up? I'd suggest that if your premiums are going up, perhaps that's not Obama's fault but a move by the very insurance companies he's trying to clamp down on to make him and the healthcare proposals look bad?

I should probably remind you at this point that Bill Clinton had a similar plan. The same Bill Clinton who was the only president in 20 years to actually make significant inroads on reducing your national debt. Given that the GOP and their business cronies like to take your country into costly invasions that only line the pockets of those self-same businesses and vastly increase the debt that the average citizen has to eventually bear I wonder if I wouldn't be more inclined to wait and see how the Democrat's plans pan out, rather than vilifying them because they plan to inconvenience you a tiny amount?

Lastly, if the mandatory edict to have you all buy insurance is "unconstitutional", then so is any Govt's ability to extract taxes from it's citizenry, but I don't hear you moaning about that.


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DarkOne
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Topic starter  
Stardreamer wrote:
Seems a fairly laudable goal, that. Save lives.Enusre people aren't refused life-saving care because they don't have the right policy, or because their insurer has flat out denied them coverage? Seems to me like he's trying to FIX what's already broken.

Here is a rough estimate of the tax working people will need to pay:

Quote:

How much will obamacare will cost you a year to pay medicaid & the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP)? Check this calculater out.

Gross income= taxes paid out

$49000 =$707.84

$50000=$1904.80

$99,999=$1904.80

$100000=$5360.27

$250,000=$53,127.85

It pays to be poor & let the government take care of you.

I don't make any money like the top tier of that scale but I would be pissed off if I had to pay that much of my income in taxes to pay for someone elses care. There is FREE clinics in every state in the USA and a hospital cannot turn you down for a life/death situation.

In the end how are we going to pay for this 1 trillion dollar program? Are we going to fine people for not having insurance and not wanting to go on Obama's plan... yes they will. Insurance companies will see a 40% increase in fees assessed to them come 2018 so that will force Insurance companies to raise rates or stop insuring people. Which those people would then be in the program. Now there is more people to take care of.

I am all for a healthcare plan that can take care of everyone and not bankrupt the country. But this bill will do just that. There is already hundreds of doctors refusing to take obamacare and medicare because of the low payouts. In the end Doctors and Nurses don't work for free or for pennies.

I will support ObamaCare if they do it right like do some of the following:

- Absolutely NO illegal immigrants can use this plan. Only life/death services will be provided.

- Minimal cost copays for routine office visits for colds/aches and pains. To prevent abuse of system.

- A flat tax to pay for it all that will come out of everyone, even your welfare check. So everyone pays into it.

- Only a doctor and the patient can decide on whether an operation is necessary or organ replacement.

- No restrictions on medical procedures except for plastic surgery.

- Non Taxable HSA that will allow you to get specialized care or cosmetic surgery done.

There always needs to be a central govt system for law and order. And taxes pay for this, but it isn't the governments job to hand out tax payer money to whom they feel like. Far too long the politicians abuse our tax dollars for personal/political gain and it has to stop. Who gives the gov't the right to hand out the taxes I give for them to hand millions of dollars to someone to do a study or research on insects? Who gives them the right to send billions of our taxes dollars overseas to other countries?

I know I sure don't, why don't we spend it on ourselves and get our country working properly before we help others. The USA sends over 27 BILLION dollars overseas to other countries. Think about how many homes and free medical clinics that could fund?


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Pyros
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27 Billion is probably a drop in the bucket of the US budget, and much of it has strings attached.

Now, tbqh, I have a superficial knowledge of the Obama health reform - not living in the States is certainly a factor 😉

Anyway, my 2c on this.. the US health system is insane, expensive and - to a certain degree - innefective. Obama's reform would only compound on the error.

Want to fix it? End with currently existing insurances (all of them stop being tax deductible, for example), create a health saving accounts (partially or fully tax deductible up to a limit), individual and inheritable. Create a global "big expensive diseases" insurance, tax funded and government managed (contracting the services to hospitals).

Why, and why I call it a "insane system"?

It is completely stupid to use insurances for something that is a regular part of our lifes - going to the doctor or having regular check-ups. The disconnection of price with actual client payments is an incentive to unrealistic pricing, and the nature of "use it os lose it" is a clear drive to overconsumption. Imagine what would be the price of a cola if you bought it through an insurance - whenever you wanted another pack, fill out a form to have it delivered (or picking it up), paying a regular fee for the insurance. The official cola price would be 10 times (as no one would pay it, except a few "distracted" ones).

Insurances are made for cover risky but not certain events (acts of God i you wish) with high and negative impact - not to add a 33% administrative cost to regular things of life. IF one had an individual health account (make it mandatory if you like - I certainly would be in favour for it to be funded at least by a small percentage of ones income), prices would mean something and economic rationality would be in place. Being inheritable and a bank account would incentive people not to overspend. Prices would be far more in check due to demand being price bound. And the global insurance for "big expensive diseases" would take care of the individual hazzard of those, that individual health savings accounts would be insuficient to catter for.


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s2odan
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Darkone wrote:
It truly disturbs me Dan. How we trust these elected officials and then they stab us in the back, sometimes for personal gain. We just need to take power back from them if they don't want to do as they people request. We should be able to vote to impeach our own elected state officials if they are not competent to do the job.

Its been this way for many years in England, Governments promise all kinds of things to get themselves into power, and when it comes time to deliver, they side-step the issue. Corruption in the media generally allows them to say what they like without fear of reprisal.

Tbh I try hard not to concern myself with politics anymore, its far too depressing.


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ChillPenguin
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30 states and the House of Representatives have ruled it unconstitutional. ObamaCare must fail.


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