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Global Warming Conspiracy?


DarkOne
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Well with all the weather and cold going on I thought this might be a good time to bring up this much debated topic. Is Global Warming really happening and should we worry about it? I look at it simply, I live in New Hampshire, USA where we do see all four seasons. And over my lifetime of living in this beautiful state I have seen a lot of weather. But the weather has changed here since I have been a child. Summers are not as warm any more and 70-80F days are really only in June-Aug after that the cool/cold starts again.

I think we are personally going through a cooling phase, we break cold records all the time it seems and looks like Spring rarely happens because we still have freezing temps in April and early May. Look at Washington DC area they got two feet of snow and expect another foot today/tomorrow. That is unheard of in that area (they had to cancel the climate control summit).

With so many politicians and of course loud mouth Gore running their mouths about Global Warming and all the mis information and data loss how can we make a clear determination? But I know in NH in the 2000's years we have had 5 of those years between 2000-2010 as the coldest on record.

What are your thoughts?

Here is a article I found that was interesting: http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... -the-world


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Pinback
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I come down on both sides,as I don't belive in all these Apocalyptic climate change nonsense,

but I do think the world is warming up.Weather that is to do with mans doing or some thing to

do with the sun I don't know.

Any one else remember in the late 1970s the big climate bebate was about how all the northen

hemisphere was going to be in a new age.


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Shant
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I'm a skeptic by nature and when somebody's trying to sell me something, my BS alarm sounds loudly. Global warming may be happening, I figure it's a bout a 50/50 prospect. Whether it's man-made or not, I'm gonna say there's a 20% chance on that. The problem is, you've got all these kooks with ulterior motives trying to convince us that the world will be un-livable in a few short generations that makes it so hard to take global warming seriously. You've got scientists falsifying data and making utterly absurd statements/predictions all the time. Read this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 991177.ece

BTW, have you noticed that the term "global warming" has been snuffed? Apparently too many record lows around the world for the average person to accept that the world could be getting hotter amidst all the shivering, so now the term is simply "climate change"...that keeps all the bases covered I guess.


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GUNSMIF
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Its definatley happening the ice caps are getting smaller and smaller every year. but if its mankind's fault or just natural phenomenon I cant judge. earth has a history of warming and cooling so i may just be the start of a new climate age. 😕


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DarkOne
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How can a magazine, newspaper or legit tv news organization things like this without checking the facts? There was some claims in the news that their was going to be no polar ice if we don't act now in 25yrs. You would have to be on crack to believe that story.

Personally governments of the world are using climate change to support their agendas and line their pockets. Yes, humans could be causing some of this and I don't doubt that we are. Maybe we need to address world population first.

In 1950 there was 2.55bil people on the planet now in 2009 there is 6.8bil. That is a huge jump if you think about it, over the thousands of years humans have existed we only had a population of 2.55bil in 1950 and then we increased it 2x in just 59yrs 😮

That is really the problem we are running into a resource issue which will cause more strife on mankind and the planet.


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Bullwinkle
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Darkone wrote:
Maybe we need to address world population first.

In 1950 there was 2.55bil people on the planet now in 2009 there is 6.8bil. That is a huge jump if you think about it, over the thousands of years humans have existed we only had a population of 2.55bil in 1950 and then we increased it 2x in just 59yrs 😮

That is really the problem we are running into a resource issue which will cause more strife on mankind and the planet.

Darkone for President!

Wow, Darkone, will you run for President? You really nailed it on the head!

Maybe Soylent Green (1973) was not so far-fetched

That's closer to a 3x population increase in 60 years (2.7x), and we already do not have enough jobs or health care or food to go around.

Overpopulation is the root cause of most of the man-made problems in the world.

[hsimg] [/hsimg]

Climate Change

Climate is complex... warming in one place can cause cooling in another. Climate change is cyclical and constantly on-going. We cannot stop it any more than we can stop the Sun from rising and setting.

Chemicals do not cause pollution. People cause pollution!

On the other hand, there is obviously nothing to gain from people speeding up the process! But the main culprit, there, is not that we cut down trees or damage the ozone layer or consume our resources -- the primary culprit is the speed with which we do all of those things, which is directly related to a population that is rapidly growing out of control.

Oil... 60 million years to create -- 150 years to consume

If we avoid another World War, the next most likely, man-made, major problem that we are likely to face is that plastics, textiles, and chemicals will become increasingly expensive as we consume our fossil fuel resources. It took hundreds of millions of years to create the world's supply of petroleum, and we have consumed a major chunk of that supply in a mere 150 years.

Sure, we may not run completely out of fossil fuels for a while, but the cost is going to go way up.

Right now we are burning petroleum to make BTU's (heat and electricity). Our grandchildren will wonder how we could have been so stupid to ignore far more important uses for petroleum as chemical "stock" for making synthetic materials, textiles, plastics, and pretty much everything in the household chemicals isle at the market. Right now, plastics and chemicals are so cheap that we throw them in the trash and pollute our water tables with them.

Someday petroleum-based chemical stock will be more rare and valuable than gold. After all, the world's gold supply just moves around -- very little of it leaves the planet...

But a barrel of oil, burned for heat, literally goes up in smoke.

Live Free or Die

You mentioned New Hampshire, Darkone, and your state is an interesting example of both sides of the global warming and fossil fuel issues. Forward-thinking and independently-governed; NH built one of the most recent nuclear power plants in the country. But a short-sighted and sensation-seeking press made it too expensive to complete the second tower -- making Seabrook Station one of the last nuclear power plants to be built in the US.

[hsimg] [/hsimg]

It is a shame that such a great and progressive project as Seabrook could be spoiled by so few short-sighted people with loud voices.

Ancient ideas

Fifty years ago there were television public service advertisements campaigning against overpopulation, pollution, and burning fossil fuels. These problems are not "new"... and, in some ways, they were discussed more openly and intelligently back in those ancient days when we had no-nonsense Presidents (like the Roosevelts and Harry Truman) (or so I hear from my grandparents 😉 )

Today we have a lot of self-serving glitz in politics, and the prospect of great leadership seems truly impossible to attain.

Darkone for President, Reprise

Therefore, you should run for office, Darkone. If actors can become great politicians, just imagine how great a science fiction buff could be! You have spent more time thinking about what can go wrong in the future than most of the current bunch, so perhaps it is your civic duty to lead us in a better direction?


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volrider
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PINBACK wrote:
Any one else remember in the late 1970s the big climate bebate was about how all the northen

hemisphere was going to be in a new ice age.

It's amusing you should mention this, Pinback, because the scientists who led the hype on that are the same ones who sold Al Gore on the Global Warming Scam. And I call it a scam because it's about one thing; Money. About making extremely rich people and corporations even richer.

Corn-based ethanol is a perfect example. It is less efficient in the engine, causing you to burn more fuel per mile. It is hard on the engine, and the smaller the engine, the worse it is. Ethanol-blended gasoline is more expensive per gallon, and ethanol is subsidized by your taxes, making it even more costly. And if you take into account the energy costs to produce it, it's "carbon footprint" is huge by the time it goes out the tailpipe. Now, the U.S. government is considering increasing the mandate to 15% ethanol blending per gallon. The only ones who stand to benefit from this are the producers and those who they support for office.

CFL's and "green energy" have similar stories. Few people really want them, they are expensive and ineffective for their stated purpose, and have problems no-one wishes to address. Yet they are being forced on us all the same.


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DarkOne
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Bullwinkle wrote:
Oil... 60 million years to create -- 150 years to consume

If we avoid another World War, the next most likely, man-made, major problem that we are likely to face is that plastics, textiles, and chemicals will become increasingly expensive as we consume our fossil fuel resources. It took hundreds of millions of years to create the world's supply of petroleum, and we have consumed a major chunk of that supply in a mere 150 years.

This is the scary piece of info, especially when I was a teenager I remember paying right around $1 per gallon of gas. And 20+ years later now we pay from $2.50 - $4.00 a gallon. I have always believed that people should be self-sufficient and the same should go with all governments. Government economies shouldn't be held hostage by others because of fuel/energy resources.

I have read over the years of engineers being able to fuel a car by water, why isn't this being jumped on and every person owning one... one simple answer... MONEY. It just goes to show the governments of the world are not out for benefiting their citizens only themselves and their interests. I don't want to say we have a unlimited supply of water but we do have a lot of it 🙂

Bullwinkle wrote:
Live Free or Die

You mentioned New Hampshire, Darkone, and your state is an interesting example of both sides of the global warming and fossil fuel issues. Forward-thinking and independently-governed; NH built one of the most recent nuclear power plants in the country. But a short-sighted and sensation-seeking press made it too expensive to complete the second tower -- making Seabrook Station one of the last nuclear power plants to be built in the US.

Damn right... LIVE FREE OR DIE 🙂

More people need to have that moto, we have so many people from VT, MA, ME coming to NH because they have ruined their state that they are now doing the same to us. I know people that work a Seabrook and that place is very safe and can provide enough electricity for the whole northeast if the states would let them do it. Nuclear technology has improved greatly since 3mi island incident. We need to use more of this personally or make death valley one big solar panel 🙂

Bullwinkle wrote:
Darkone for President, Reprise

Therefore, you should run for office, Darkone. If actors can become great politicians, just imagine how great a science fiction buff could be! You have spent more time thinking about what can go wrong in the future than most of the current bunch, so perhaps it is your civic duty to lead us in a better direction?

Hahaha Bullwinkle 🙂 Man I wish I could but $$$ wins elections not honesty and wanting to really change things. I have thought about running for local office (selectman) in our town, but not sure I have the time. Hey they wouldn't like it because I would probably be the first president to get BLEEPED on TV ... 🙂 Because I can't stand people bullshitting me, oops got me swearing. I just want a president that is for the people not a political party.

volrider wrote:
It's amusing you should mention this, Pinback, because the scientists who led the hype on that are the same ones who sold Al Gore on the Global Warming Scam.

Al Gore and the carbon footprint.... what utter crap both are. For those that follow Al Gore blindly read below and make him follow what he preaches....

Quote:

Last August alone, Gore burned through 22,619 kWh—guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of his energy consumption, Gore’s average monthly electric bill topped $1,359.

Since the release of An Inconvenient Truth, Gore’s energy consumption has increased from an average of 16,200 kWh per month in 2005, to 18,400 kWh per month in 2006.

Gore’s extravagant energy use does not stop at his electric bill. Natural gas bills for Gore’s mansion and guest house averaged $1,080 per month last year.

“As the spokesman of choice for the global warming movement, Al Gore has to be willing to walk to walk, not just talk the talk, when it comes to home energy use,” said Tennessee Center for Policy Research President Drew Johnson.

In total, Gore paid nearly $30,000 in combined electricity and natural gas bills for his Nashville estate in 2006.”


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volrider
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Found an interesting news item:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

Seems Professor Jones was less than forthright about his data.


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DarkOne
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What is so hard about averaging temperatures over long periods of time. Yes you have to sift through old records but them it all gets put into a computer and calculated for you. It's simple they either fudged the numbers or left some out to get the desired results.

Usually science is funding by grants, maybe the money the organization was going to get would be larger if they supported global warming than not supporting. That would be interesting thing to find out. That maybe just maybe science is slanted depending on how much money they get.... corruption rules the world 🙂


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Naagulmai
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During the middle ages the whole of the south of England was dotted by vinyards. In todays environment it is just simply not warn enough for any length of time, to be able grow grapes on such a scale, without the aid of massive greenhouses. This piece of historical evidence alone should be enough to put pay to all this Global warming nonsense.

Well....The term "global warming", has fallen out of fashion of late. With the politicians, media and environMENTALists choosing to refer to this phenomena in the more non descript term of "climate change". Which is happening all the time...only naturally.

Nah, I've just added this to my government lies to be ignored list. Along with the Millenium bug, WMDs, Al Queda and let's not forget last years corker........Swine flu. Ha! Knee deep in dead bodies by summer?....

Pull the other one.


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DarkOne
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Finally someone wants to step up and go after the people who gave us misleading information.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategat ... exclusive/

All these climate changing legislation that the UN and a bunch of other countries want to try to enforce is costing billions of dollars that most people and countries cannot afford. Since when does the minority govern over the majority? You have activists all over the world that dictate world and social policies.

Yeah I know this usually happens because most people take a hands off attitude towards politics thinking that people or their representatives won't screw things up. Well that isn't the fact anymore. We do have to read and stay up to date on affairs of state and the world.

Quote:

“Countries need to discuss how the long-term finance will be raised. Let us also not forget that in Copenhagen, nations pledged $28 billion in short-term finance for immediate action, and this money is sitting in national budgets. Countries need to find how this money can be used as soon as possible to launch immediate action.”

You actually want to give the UN anything. The UN is one of the biggest corrupt organizations on the planet and we still give them money, why? Russia is having one of their worst years on record for snow and Dallas, TX is about to break all time record for snow fall.

Yes. No doubt there is some sort of climate change happening all the time. But don't blindly go to the troth for your info without checking its accuracy 🙂


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Naagulmai
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Found this site a while back. Just about covers pretty much covers everything...

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php


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DarkOne
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Thanks for that link Naagulmai, has a lot of interesting articles here.

Wish there was some global warming, because I have no power in my house for the 4th day in NH and i'm freezing my ass off at night since I stay there to babysit the pets. 😉


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Bullwinkle
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Darkone wrote:

What is so hard about averaging temperatures over long periods of time?

Measuring temperature (degrees) is easy enough. The problem is that measuring heat (calories) is far more difficult. I know that climate is grouped by zones, but I don't know whether a standard measurement of "climate" exists. We can (and do) measure degree-days at the local airport, but what do we say when Mt Washington's degree-days increase while Death Valley's degree-days decrease? Certainly that indicates a change... but how do we describe that change?

Then there are the oceans which act like huge heat reservoirs -- much larger reservoirs than the atmosphere. Ocean temperatures vary greatly depending on location -- both horizontal and vertical. They also vary depending on cloud cover, currents, the state of the Earth's magnetic fields, changes in solar flares, etc.

In other words, it really is difficult to measure "global warming" or the global effects of climate changes. An ice age can come and go with relatively minuscule changes in the Earth's overall heat.

I would expect that satellites are in the best position to measure the Earth's overall heat, but I do not expect that we will see conclusive data on the subject any time soon!

Naagulmai wrote:
I've just added this to my government lies to be ignored list. Along with the Millenium bug, WMDs, Al Queda and let's not forget last years corker........Swine flu. Ha! Knee deep in dead bodies by summer?....

Pull the other one.

Right! And don't forget: "The recession is (almost) over". 😉


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GeneralArrow
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I think people largely miss understand the issue. Global Warming isn't entirely that we caused it. Its that we accelerated it beyond control or rather, destabilized the natural cycle. I went to a Global Warming Workshop back in the 90's and it was clear cut that glaciers were melting faster then a couple years back. CFC's did the a decent amount of damage and there is some speculation that the Ozone hole is healing from fairly recent news. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 141015.htm

It is still largely unknown of the causes our massive industry the climate has had. We can argue about Al Gore all we want but in the end its still a problem weather we caused it or not. 😆


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DarkOne
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People forget about that glowing thing in the sky has a lot to do with global warming as well. If the heat coming off the sun increase just a few degrees the impact is felt on earth or a phase of storms on the sun's surface impact the earth in a few ways with temp change and RF interference. It has been documented in various studies that sun activity good and bad do produce effects on the earths climate. And I am not saying we haven't caused any damage just not as much as people would think. There has been other periods of Global Warming in earths history when the humans were not civilized enough to cause the emissions we do now.

I know I wouldn't mind some global warming in NH because we have broken a few state records the past 3 yrs because of the cold temps. 😆


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specops
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As Darkone has said, the sun is getting hotter. So we're bound to feel the heat more. My theory is that the seasons have changed due to the axis of the planet being shifted slighly. Whether this is down to experiments on the planet, mining, explosions, war, removal of trees and earth, magnet polarity or gravity between the earth and the moon - who knows? What will be interesting is whether or not we will make it to Mars in time to see our own planet fall apart at the seams. Eventually resources on the planet have to run out, and as the Earth becomes more commercially aware, they will eventually run out, even the recylced materials can only be recylced for so long - so the race would then be on to either colonize mars or start shifting out the human race on big tansporters in the hope of finding another Earth like planet that doesn't have anyone on it - yet. But for that to happen, we need better engines/rockets and life-support systems to sustain life. Not in my lifetime, however sooner rather than later (sign me up) 🙂


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MajTom
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Either 'global warming' or 'the sea level rise' rather local or averaged data is declared.

'Millions of population are threatened of sea level rise. But not mentioned that those are from areas with drastically grown near-sea population and small islands ones.

'Average temperature rise' - would be taken from particular changes in reported zones, as it is difficult to get reliable data all over the World in a short periods and make correlations. That is why, for instance, glaciers example is manipulating the headlines.

For the last 15 years, really global temperature rise is reported, compared to about 50 preceding years.

This link (already shared here in discussion) is showing a good overall tendency, regarding data analysis.

https://pjmedia.com/blog/charlie-martin/2010/02/23/climategate-and-the-law-senator-inhofe-to-ask-for-congressional-criminal-investigation-pajamas-mediapjtv-exclusive-n14350

 

Data is being manipulated or giving not enough explanation every time. Even, mathematically, the trend with current spike may not be predicted correctly.

Some areas are really experiencing colder temperatures or season changing shift.

'Climate change' has enough confirmation. Not all of it is due to human impact (for instance, ecologic fuel usage percentage is continuously growing).

Earth itself reported to spin faster recent years. Near Earth orbit satellites and debris burning in the upper atmosphere layers is not investigated enough.

Stay aware and put all sources of information into trial)


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DarkOne
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Hehe resurrecting a 10yro thread @majtom, way to deep dive 👍

 

Even still 10yrs later my opinions haven't changed much, as most people know here I live in New Hapshire, USA. We have four seasons so we have a pretty good gauge on climate I think. But what I have noticed over the years is that it is staying colder longer here.... Generally you would think each season is 3mos in length but to be honest I would say its more like 2.5mos person season except winter, its staying colder longer here where winter lasts 4-5mos now. I remember when I was a kid winter was basically Dec-Feb.... not so any more. Haha groundhog day here in the USA, spring rarely comes early anymore like it used to when I was a kid.

I do think the world is changing.... just depends on where you live. Here in the Northeast its staying cooler longer..... but in other parts of the USA its getting hotter or they are pounded with storms. Besides the cold weather for like 5mos of the year, I would say the NH,VT,ME have great climates and everything is lush green and rarely have severe weather.

I know we are having fires in a lot of places in the world and I am sure those incidents have a impact on the local weather, or pumping lots of polluting materials into the air probably have a impact on the weather in that local area.

I have watch many videos on the floods in China, they are getting just devastated with water, and who knows what their pollution level has to do with this.

But its been stated that there has been times in earths history where there has been no icecaps and that was before humans.... earth and our sun goes through phases. I am no saying humans don't cause a impact, I am just saying its exaggerated. We need to worry about saving our wild and sea life personally. We are have more impact on that than the climate.


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MajTom
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Thank you:) but it is still live and more headlined.

The World Wildlife Fund and other wildlife foundations directly tell us that Earth should go wilder.
Atmospheric and ocean flows changes cause new tornadoes, floods, freezing and so on. It is unstable.

A lot of impact due to human making forests and animals go extinct.

Example, sharks  (predators) killing is destroying the food chain. That causes boosting one populations of species and go extinct others.
Migration paths.
This kind of unbalance makes sped up unnatural instability.


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MajTom
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Current days. The predictions fully rely on correct data collection and post-processing and cooperation.

Having NASA together with ESA, other national companies, and private companies, launches are active and directed to Earth surveillance with a good potential for effective data collection and post-processing.

The best precision of climate changes are presented for the last 150 years, showing direct human impact on global warming.

Technology evolution started an increased human impact on global warming. But at the same time we still have new technologies rising fast. For instance, solar power accumulation. Might have two major impacts:


1. Less fossil burning and reflections back to the atmosphere.

2. Probably more cooling natural effects influence presence, which is neglected while showing numbers of temperature rise trends due to human activities. Meaning, that we should count both with the climate change predictions.


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