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[Sticky] !! Pioneer Question Time !! - Ask them here

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Styggron
(@styggron)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 125
 

Very rarely on IRC. He's off doing other stuff. Easily contactable if you'd like anyone would like drop him a line and ask. I'm not bothered though - this is a long-term project and I expect people to come and go. I certainly have!

 

Well if he is no longer working on Pioneer I guess there is no point asking if he has any updates to his cheatslua script but if you think he might have Robn it would be great if you could ask him. 

 

Cheers.


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michael1
(@michael1)
Crewman Registered
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 2
 

Hi,

 

I have a couple questions regarding Pioneer and its development. Or maybe couple of topics I'd like to ask about.

 

1. Brief summary of what the development process is like - especially if someone would be interested in developing a new game feature or extending existing one, how shall the one go about it.

- try to implement the feature right away without prior asking on current master and in the case of success submit pull request for code review? Is there a chance that for such approach the pull request would be merged with master or is it already condemned to floating as pull request for a long time or forever as it was not discussed previously?

- or ask first on pioneer dev forum or submit a feature request together with information that said individual would like to start to work on it?

 

2. Economy - is there currently any plan to implement something similar to dynamic economy or its approximation?

- as far as I'm aware the game currently has lists of major and minor import, export, illegal products that is probably based on system economy (import, export) and government (legal, illegal); maybe the prices and amounts are randomly generated within certain limits for each port.

- what if the economy was instead based on supply and demand (akin to X economy, or rather Space Rangers 2 economy)?

    - the production of products would be still based on economy type (mining colony would produce ores, industrial various types of products) and their legality still affected by system government type, but there would for example be no production in industrial system, or planet, possible if there were no ore resources shipped to it.

- due to the size of the game (large amount of inhabited systems, probably large amount of ships) this would probably be simulated with some sort of approximation (in systems with high piracy where the player is not in, there would be maybe some percentage chance that some trader ship would be destroyed by pirates over some period of time).

- this would however as I understand it require at least some level of universe persistence (at least tracking trader ships with their cargo, or somehow approximate it).

 

3. Universe persistence.

- if, for example, AI ship jumps out of system where the player is currently in, is it simply despawned or does the game somehow simulate it spawning it in the destination system and going on its business? If so, then up to what point? As I suppose not all the ships in the game are currently 'tracked'.

    - what about the ships that jump into the system player is in - were they just spawned or did they actually arrive from another system?

- I suppose that at least some level of persistence or its approximation would be required for the economy 'simulation'.

 

4. System events.

- 'There's a famine over at Some System and thus the prices of food are temporarily up.' which you could use for quick profit.

- variable system government stability and possibility of government change (due to revolution maybe) leading to economy transformation over time (and possibly increased piracy for some period of time).

 

5. Ship convoys.

- some ships would travel in convoys instead of solitary travel.

- acceleration of the ships in convoy would be limited to slowest ship (maybe large trader vessel).

- upon jump the fighters would jump first - I think that is consistent with current game - and then wait for the other ships.

- or jump would be simultaneous, if it would be somehow consistent with the jump drive technology - how it should work.

 

6. Number of ships you can meet actually travelling in space or know that they are travelling from some place to another even if on the other side of the system.

- 'Universe is really really big, so the chance that you will meet someone unintentionally is really low' - really? Even for Solar system and around Earth and Mars?

- can someone with appropriate knowledge share how many ships are with you currently travelling in system on average?

- at least for me increased amount of traffic - especially if its purpose would be somehow simulated - persistent universe, dynamic economy - would add to the immersion of the game. And - it can be mainly in core systems, so you can still get lonely on some outer system.

- or does the current model purpotedly go hand in hand with the game's moto 'A gameof lonely space adventure'?

 

7. Military.

- as I understand the standpoint is that the game does not have sufficiently established its basics yet, so it would be unreasonable to dedicate resources to military part of game. Or am I wrong?

- is there however something that would actually prevent some basic implementation of Military ships?

- would give options of quests for player, faction standing and military rank.

- if sufficiently developed and at least somehow simulated there can be military skirmishes in border systems, maybe system takeovers or full military campaign - that would however probably work best with economy and resource simulation - building new ships takes time and resources.

 

8. Dynamic factions.

- possibility of rogue faction spawning in unstable systems (as a consequence of system wide revolution).

- that can later join another faction, be destroyed, or some other system may join it.

 

9. UI enhancement - hover effect.

- possibility to display some information on hover above 'active' items in quest description.

- for example on hover above system name in BB quest, type of system (Binary, Ternary, Quadruple) would be displayed together with maybe economic information - somehow highlighted items that the system has as minor, major import and the system you are in has as an minor, major export. That would be also good for star map, I suppose.

 

I would just basically like to know what do you think about some of those things.

- is it just completely out of the scope of the game at any stage of development?

- or 'as long you do it', you can, then present the result with pull request and it will maybe be merged?

 

If someone would be willing to share their thoughts on that, I would really appreciate it.

 

Thank you, Michael.


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nozmajner
(@nozmajner)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 278
 

Hi Michael

 

You can find some information about development work in our wiki.

You might  get answers for your questions sooner in the Dev forums, it's a bit more focused there. Or the irc channel #pioneer on freenode.

I'm just a visual guy, so I can't really answer your questions.


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robn
 robn
(@robn)
Captain Registered
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1035
 

1. Brief summary of what the development process is like - especially if someone would be interested in developing a new game feature or extending existing one, how shall the one go about it.
- try to implement the feature right away without prior asking on current master and in the case of success submit pull request for code review? Is there a chance that for such approach the pull request would be merged with master or is it already condemned to floating as pull request for a long time or forever as it was not discussed previously?
- or ask first on pioneer dev forum or submit a feature request together with information that said individual would like to start to work on it?

Depends what it is. Obvious things like bugfixes and minor features can usually just be submitted as-is. If you're going to start something big that might take a while, then definitely discuss it first, if nothing else just to make sure that we're aware you're working on it. If you drop something huge on the PR queue that we've never seen before, then we've first got to decide if its actually wanted, then figure out if its the right way to do, and then actually review it. We're stretched paper-thin on review time at the moment anyway, so talking about things up front and finding out what's gone before and how it fits will help us a lot.

This discussion should definitely happen on the dev forum.
 

2. Economy - is there currently any plan to implement something similar to dynamic economy or its approximation?

No plans, though such a thing has been discussed. Unfortunately economy right now is a fair way down the list because it touches so many other systems that we know aren't right or are being rewritten right now - starsystem generation, cargo and equipment, factions, UI, etc. We really are putting it off right now.

That can be an opportunity though. If you've got a good idea for how economy should work and you implement it, then you pretty much win. Working code beats theory pretty much every time.
 

3. Universe persistence.
- if, for example, AI ship jumps out of system where the player is currently in, is it simply despawned or does the game somehow simulate it spawning it in the destination system and going on its business? If so, then up to what point? As I suppose not all the ships in the game are currently 'tracked'.

Right now its despawned but remembered until the player jumps and is respawned if the player emerges in the same system. This is handled by some of the Lua modules - TradeShips and Assassination, in particular. Its not an in-game function.

- I suppose that at least some level of persistence or its approximation would be required for the economy 'simulation'.

Yes, and it could be done in modules. It wouldn't be simple, but its doable.
 

4. System events.
- 'There's a famine over at Some System and thus the prices of food are temporarily up.' which you could use for quick profit.
- variable system government stability and possibility of government change (due to revolution maybe) leading to economy transformation over time (and possibly increased piracy for some period of time).

This would be a fairly straightforward mission module. Adjusting prices would be a little bit finicky right now, but easy to add if someone wanted it.

(Most extensions to the Lua API happen because someone wants them for a particular thing they're making).
 

5. Ship convoys.
- some ships would travel in convoys instead of solitary travel.
- acceleration of the ships in convoy would be limited to slowest ship (maybe large trader vessel).
- upon jump the fighters would jump first - I think that is consistent with current game - and then wait for the other ships.
- or jump would be simultaneous, if it would be somehow consistent with the jump drive technology - how it should work.

We don't have convoys right now, though we do have a "follow" AI mode which will attempt to match velocity with a target ship. Most of convoys requires an extensible UI so that you could see wingmen, give orders and so on. Its very wanted though, and will happen some day.
 

6. Number of ships you can meet actually travelling in space or know that they are travelling from some place to another even if on the other side of the system.
- 'Universe is really really big, so the chance that you will meet someone unintentionally is really low' - really? Even for Solar system and around Earth and Mars?

Yes, space is really that big!

That said, we've talked a lot about how to change things (mainly the hyperspace model) to make it more likely that you'll meet other ships. There's been a lot of discussion over several years so I'm not going to go into the detail here. It mostly needs people to experiment with ideas and see how they work. Another thing that will happen one day.

- can someone with appropriate knowledge share how many ships are with you currently travelling in system on average?

For the most part its based on population (more people, more traffic), with extras spawned for specific missions.


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robn
 robn
(@robn)
Captain Registered
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1035
 

7. Military.
- as I understand the standpoint is that the game does not have sufficiently established its basics yet, so it would be unreasonable to dedicate resources to military part of game. Or am I wrong?

Correct.

- is there however something that would actually prevent some basic implementation of Military ships?

No, they're just ships with orders to fly places or shoot things.

- if sufficiently developed and at least somehow simulated there can be military skirmishes in border systems, maybe system takeovers or full military campaign - that would however probably work best with economy and resource simulation - building new ships takes time and resources.

This is pretty advanced. It'd be cool, but we've got a lot to do first!
 

8. Dynamic factions.
- possibility of rogue faction spawning in unstable systems (as a consequence of system wide revolution).
- that can later join another faction, be destroyed, or some other system may join it.

More good ideas, discussed before, advanced bucket 🙂

9. UI enhancement - hover effect.
- possibility to display some information on hover above 'active' items in quest description.
- for example on hover above system name in BB quest, type of system (Binary, Ternary, Quadruple) would be displayed together with maybe economic information - somehow highlighted items that the system has as minor, major import and the system you are in has as an minor, major export. That would be also good for star map, I suppose.

Tooltips are on my list.

That stuff is certainly possible, but who knows if it can work. UI design is hard. The system and economy stuff is pretty lousy right now, I've got a lot of work to do there.

Lets just say that the infrastructure will support it.

I would just basically like to know what do you think about some of those things.
- is it just completely out of the scope of the game at any stage of development?

Not out of scope, though not everything is realistic right now.

Thanks for your interest. I hope to see some code from you soon! 🙂


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
(@vuzz)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 491
 

hi retry to compile  myself , when i have a windows vista , i'll never  successful.

 

Now i have a new computer with windows  8, what VC does i need , VC 2012 ? and where i can have this free (if its possible)? 

 

its a x64 processor, its the same method like win 32 ? with the The pioneer-thirdparty ?

 

 

PS: i have installed Start menu8 on my PC whose don't active the metro system, only use the classic desktop.

 

think he work like a windows 7.


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fluffyfreak
(@fluffyfreak)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1306
 

hi retry to compile  myself , when i have a windows vista , i'll never  successful.

 

Now i have a new computer with windows  8, what VC does i need , VC 2012 ? and where i can have this free (if its possible)? 

 

its a x64 processor, its the same method like win 32 ? with the The pioneer-thirdparty ?

 

 

PS: i have installed Start menu8 on my PC whose don't active the metro system, only use the classic desktop.

 

think he work like a windows 7.

 

you can use vs2012 express edition or vs2013 express edition for DESKTOP - make sure it's the desktop edition you get otherwise you can only develop for windows 8 / 8.1 and Pioneer won't compile.

You should be able to get it from here:  http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/downloads

 

The free edition doesn't build 64bit executables but that doesn't matter for Pioneer and it runs fine, it's what I use to develop with.

 

In the future we might have CodeBlocks support and then we could add 64 bit support but that's for the future 🙂

 

andy


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
(@vuzz)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 491
 

Thanks a lot  for tis link fluffyfreak, 

 

i hope i've finish to compile something successful ^^.

 

Its the only brake on my dev .


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
(@vuzz)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 491
 

Ho , i know this link , that need me registred with my microsoft account but , i used this one a long time ago and forget my password ...


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fluffyfreak
(@fluffyfreak)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1306

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fluffyfreak
(@fluffyfreak)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1306
 

Works for me without logging in, just click download, tick the box for the ISO and click Next 🙂


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
(@vuzz)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 491
 

Ok that work fine , thanks  a lot  Andy


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michael1
(@michael1)
Crewman Registered
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 2
 

Hi Michael

 

You can find some information about development work in our wiki.

You might  get answers for your questions sooner in the Dev forums, it's a bit more focused there. Or the irc channel #pioneer on freenode.

I'm just a visual guy, so I can't really answer your questions.

 

Hi nozmajner, thanks for your reply and recommendation. I think I will certainly ask about development stuff over at Pioneer Devforums.

 

Depends what it is. Obvious things like bugfixes and minor features can usually just be submitted as-is. If you're going to start something big that might take a while, then definitely discuss it first, if nothing else just to make sure that we're aware you're working on it. If you drop something huge on the PR queue that we've never seen before, then we've first got to decide if its actually wanted, then figure out if its the right way to do, and then actually review it. We're stretched paper-thin on review time at the moment anyway, so talking about things up front and finding out what's gone before and how it fits will help us a lot.

This discussion should definitely happen on the dev forum.

 

No plans, though such a thing has been discussed. Unfortunately economy right now is a fair way down the list because it touches so many other systems that we know aren't right or are being rewritten right now - starsystem generation, cargo and equipment, factions, UI, etc. We really are putting it off right now.

That can be an opportunity though. If you've got a good idea for how economy should work and you implement it, then you pretty much win. Working code beats theory pretty much every time.

 

Right now its despawned but remembered until the player jumps and is respawned if the player emerges in the same system. This is handled by some of the Lua modules - TradeShips and Assassination, in particular. Its not an in-game function.

Yes, and it could be done in modules. It wouldn't be simple, but its doable.

 

This would be a fairly straightforward mission module. Adjusting prices would be a little bit finicky right now, but easy to add if someone wanted it.

(Most extensions to the Lua API happen because someone wants them for a particular thing they're making).

 

We don't have convoys right now, though we do have a "follow" AI mode which will attempt to match velocity with a target ship. Most of convoys requires an extensible UI so that you could see wingmen, give orders and so on. Its very wanted though, and will happen some day.

 

Yes, space is really that big!

That said, we've talked a lot about how to change things (mainly the hyperspace model) to make it more likely that you'll meet other ships. There's been a lot of discussion over several years so I'm not going to go into the detail here. It mostly needs people to experiment with ideas and see how they work. Another thing that will happen one day.

For the most part its based on population (more people, more traffic), with extras spawned for specific missions.

 

 

Correct.

No, they're just ships with orders to fly places or shoot things.

This is pretty advanced. It'd be cool, but we've got a lot to do first!

 

More good ideas, discussed before, advanced bucket 🙂

Tooltips are on my list.

That stuff is certainly possible, but who knows if it can work. UI design is hard. The system and economy stuff is pretty lousy right now, I've got a lot of work to do there.

Lets just say that the infrastructure will support it.

Not out of scope, though not everything is realistic right now.

Thanks for your interest. I hope to see some code from you soon! 🙂

 

Thank you very much robn for extensive answer, that's quite what I was hoping for.

I think I will sign in to Pioneer dev forum and post something there.

 

What is quite unfortunate though is that I don't think that the computer I currently have is too usable for game development, but I can try.

Thanks!


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fluffyfreak
(@fluffyfreak)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1306
 

@michael1, you don't need a very powerful machine to develop on, it helps a lot of course 🙂 but you should be able to run the game and test what you're working on ok.


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Marcel
(@marcel)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

I've found that the way to select a ship from the console; import("Game").player:SetShipType("dsminer")

doesn't seem to work anymore. Is there an updated command? Thanks.


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fluffyfreak
(@fluffyfreak)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1306
 

I don't know I thought that should still work although robn and jpab have both been making changes in that area so it might be worth posting on the dev forum as well or trying to catch them on IRC?


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robn
 robn
(@robn)
Captain Registered
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1035
 

I've found that the way to select a ship from the console; import("Game").player:SetShipType("dsminer")
doesn't seem to work anymore. Is there an updated command? Thanks.

Its still working fine for me.


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Marcel
(@marcel)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

Now it's working for me too.   Maybe I was just repeatedly doing typos yesterday. Sometimes I just have to embarrass myself!


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Marcel
(@marcel)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

OK, another stupid question. When I make a link to Pioneer in Ubuntu it only works if the link is in the same folder as the executable. I want to put a link in a folder I call 'games' that has nothing inside but links to my installed games. Is there a way to do this?


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robn
 robn
(@robn)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1035
 

OK, another stupid question. When I make a link to Pioneer in Ubuntu it only works if the link is in the same folder as the executable. I want to put a link in a folder I call 'games' that has nothing inside but links to my installed games. Is there a way to do this?

The standard builds look for the data/ folder in the folder the game was launched from, so you need to arrange to have that folder as the current working directory before you start. A tiny shell script is the obvious way:

#!/bin/sh
cd /path/to/pioneer
exec ./pioneer

If you're compiling Pioneer yourself there's a better way - set PIONEER_DATA_DIR when running configure.


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Marcel
(@marcel)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

Thanks Robert. I haven't learned how to do any scripting yet. I'll study up on it! 😀

edit: Well it works, but only when I run it from the terminal. If I click on the icon it just opens another Files window. Permissions were set with chmod a+x, then I tried chmod 700. The properties/permissions for the icon says read and write access and execute file as program are set.


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Marcel
(@marcel)
Captain Registered
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1188
 

I found a solution to my question posted above. Download 'Create Launcher' from the Ubuntu software center. It's free and listed under Themes & Tweaks. One can easily create launchers for apps, folders and websites and put them where you want them. I now have Pioneer in the dock!


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NeuralKernel
(@neuralkernel)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 262
 

Not a question... but not sure where else to put it... thought you'd get a kick out of this, nozmajner... it's your fish! 😀

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/12/absurd-creature-of-the-week-3/


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nozmajner
(@nozmajner)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 278
 

So Mola is millstone. I totally forgot about that 🙂


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Vuzz
 Vuzz
(@vuzz)
Warrant Officer Registered
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 491
 

Hi 

it's about compilation , each time i make it , i've alway the exec and the .dll extention separate , what is the lmethod to have only a big exec with .dll include ? 


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